PhD to PA or MD?

[Wash]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I am so glad to have found this forum. I am currently writing my dissertation to graduate this summer with a PhD in public health. I have clinical research experience and miss the patient interaction. I was recently accepted into a PA program to start in Jan 2010. However, I cannot decide if I want to go the PA route or the MD route. I am kinda older (39 in June), husband and 3 preteen kids. I plan to do patient care first and the some research and academia in the future.

I see lots of you here applying to MD school after PA due to hitting the 'glass ceiling'. The MD route, although satisfying is too long: 2 years postback (advisor says my Bio and Chem are too old + no good for MCATs), 4 years med school, 3 years residency = 9 years. Plus being away from my family and the debt is not too enticing.

With a PhD and PA-C, will I have better opportunities? Others have told me that doing PA now is backtracking. Should I go to PA school and then if I am dissatisfied go to MD school? I am afraid to give up my seat for next Jan and then not get into MD school.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

[coldweatherblue]

First off congratulations on your dissertation. 👍

I think in this situation you really have to consider the value of time. In med school you'll essentially devote 8-10 years to medical training and practice for 15-20 years before retiring. Second is the cost; 15-20 years might be long enough to pay back your loans, but certainly taking on such an educational debt later in life will effect some of your future plans.

PA school is two years and you'll be out with great opportunities for patient contact and free-time to pursue research.

Ultimately the decision rests upon you alone but as you can tell I would be strongly leaning towards the PA route. I think you would have great clinical as well as academic opportunities with a doctorate in public health and a PA degree.

 

[tennisball80]

Sounds PA would be a good choice.

 

[BozoSparky]

The PA would definitely make more sense time-wise, but the MD would give you more flexibility in a career, like you said.

...are they the only options...are there any other jobs you could get right now that would allow you to have the patient interaction you experienced before?

It is possible that you might not like having a PhD and working as PA. The hospital setting is very hierarchical.

 

[TexasPhysician]

PA is a great career. I know many that are very happy in this field. I don't believe they ever hit a "glass ceiling." You can always learn more and do more as a PA.....just have to have a doc to sign off on things (I believe).

If I were in your shoes, I'd really consider the PA route given the time/money issues.

If you are independently wealthy and don't mind being away from your family much more often than you are now, the M.D. may be worth it. If not, you can be well respected doing research in an academic institution and see patients on the side with a PA.

For the record, I'd trust some of the PA's I know before I'd trust some of the M.D.'s I know.

 

[Lokhtar]

Do you want to be a physician? It's rare to have a PhD, and then be a PA, which should not be a factor in your decision, but what do you want to do?

Is it simply being involved in patient care in some capacity? Is it to formulate policy? I think that's what you should figure out first.

 

[tdittyx2x3]

The PA would definitely make more sense time-wise, but the MD would give you more flexibility in a career, like you said.

Depends on what you mean by flexible. PA's can switch specialties and do their training on the job with full pay.

OP, the question will remain if you are willing to sacrifice so much time for an MD. Do you have ten years to dedicate to this? I have a feeling you should read about how entirely draining the road to becoming a physician can be. You have to want it. Dare I say need it.

 

[Depakote]

What are your ultimate career goals?

I suspect you'd be able to get more mileage out of your PhD if you went the MD route, but if you want to work primarily in a patient care setting then PA school will get you there a lot sooner with less debt and a significantly shorter time to a real paycheck.

This doesn't mean that there aren't public health opportunities for PAs. I would have to assume there are. You might inquire with the PA program you've been accepted to and ask about the sort of work you might be able to explore given the unique dual degrees you'd graduate with. They'd probably be able to give you more direction than a pre-allopathic forum regarding career opportunities for PAs, should you go that route.

 

[Black Surgeon]

I am so glad to have found this forum. I am currently writing my dissertation to graduate this summer with a PhD in public health. I have clinical research experience and miss the patient interaction. I was recently accepted into a PA program to start in Jan 2010. However, I cannot decide if I want to go the PA route or the MD route. I am kinda older (39 in June), husband and 3 preteen kids. I plan to do patient care first and the some research and academia in the future.

I see lots of you here applying to MD school after PA due to hitting the 'glass ceiling'. The MD route, although satisfying is too long: 2 years postback (advisor says my Bio and Chem are too old + no good for MCATs), 4 years med school, 3 years residency = 9 years. Plus being away from my family and the debt is not too enticing.

With a PhD and PA-C, will I have better opportunities? Others have told me that doing PA now is backtracking. Should I go to PA school and then if I am dissatisfied go to MD school? I am afraid to give up my seat for next Jan and then not get into MD school.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Going from a PhD to PA is a professional regression and not progression. Your concerns about your age, debt and being away from family are definitely understanble and valid. Have you considered Dentistry? This option would a bit more time sensitive.

 

[DOquestions]

I am so glad to have found this forum. I am currently writing my dissertation to graduate this summer with a PhD in public health. I have clinical research experience and miss the patient interaction. I was recently accepted into a PA program to start in Jan 2010. However, I cannot decide if I want to go the PA route or the MD route. I am kinda older (39 in June), husband and 3 preteen kids. I plan to do patient care first and the some research and academia in the future.

I see lots of you here applying to MD school after PA due to hitting the 'glass ceiling'. The MD route, although satisfying is too long: 2 years postback (advisor says my Bio and Chem are too old + no good for MCATs), 4 years med school, 3 years residency = 9 years. Plus being away from my family and the debt is not too enticing.

With a PhD and PA-C, will I have better opportunities? Others have told me that doing PA now is backtracking. Should I go to PA school and then if I am dissatisfied go to MD school? I am afraid to give up my seat for next Jan and then not get into MD school.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Just take the PA training, see if you can get a part-time job or something and do research.

My local medical school has several part-time jobs open right now for PAs.

 

[BozoSparky]

Depends on what you mean by flexible. PA's can switch specialties and do their training on the job with full pay.

OP, the question will remain if you are willing to sacrifice so much time for an MD. Do you have ten years to dedicate to this? I have a feeling you should read about how entirely draining the road to becoming a physician can be. You have to want it. Dare I say need it.

good point.

i was thinking of the world of academia...teaching/research/clinic, which may or may not be important to the OP.

 

[Wash]

I posted this here before, and then again on the non-traditional board. It must have been moved there permanently. I was getting more responses here (thank you to the 10 who responded), thus the re-post here.

I am currently writing my dissertation to graduate this summer with a PhD in public health. I have clinical research experience and miss the patient interaction. I was recently accepted into a PA program to start in Jan 2010. However, I cannot decide if I want to go the PA route or the MD route. I am kinda older (39 in June), husband and 3 preteen kids. I plan to do patient care first and the some research and academia in the future.

I see lots of you here applying to MD school after PA due to hitting the 'glass ceiling'. The MD route, although satisfying is too long: 2 years postback (advisor says my Bio and Chem are too old + no good for MCATs), 4 years med school, 3 years residency = 9 years. Plus being away from my family and the debt is not too enticing.

With a PhD and PA-C, will I have better opportunities? Others have told me that doing PA now is backtracking. Should I go to PA school and then if I am dissatisfied go to MD school? I am afraid to give up my seat for next Jan and then not get into MD school.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

[tastybeef]

You're 38 and have 3 pre-teen kids. Maybe incurring more debt is not a good idea, considering you're probably going to be paying back the loans as well as college tuition for your kids well into your 60's.

 

[niranjan162]

I posted this here before, and then again on the non-traditional board. It must have been moved there permanently. I was getting more responses here (thank you to the 10 who responded), thus the re-post here.

I am currently writing my dissertation to graduate this summer with a PhD in public health. I have clinical research experience and miss the patient interaction. I was recently accepted into a PA program to start in Jan 2010. However, I cannot decide if I want to go the PA route or the MD route. I am kinda older (39 in June), husband and 3 preteen kids. I plan to do patient care first and the some research and academia in the future.

I see lots of you here applying to MD school after PA due to hitting the 'glass ceiling'. The MD route, although satisfying is too long: 2 years postback (advisor says my Bio and Chem are too old + no good for MCATs), 4 years med school, 3 years residency = 9 years. Plus being away from my family and the debt is not too enticing.

With a PhD and PA-C, will I have better opportunities? Others have told me that doing PA now is backtracking. Should I go to PA school and then if I am dissatisfied go to MD school? I am afraid to give up my seat for next Jan and then not get into MD school.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Do you have all the pre-reqs done for med school matriculation (im not sure of the pre-reqs for pa school, Having a PhD wont allow you to circumvent that stuff. )?

Also if your doing it because you really miss the patient interaction, PA is not a bad option. I dont think your PhD will help you much though. I think you answered it yourself, med school is long.

Whats more important to you? family time or going to med school? because its going to require lots of sacrifice.

 

[TMP-SMX]

I think it's not the best idea for you to pursue medical school at this point. You really would never retire.

 

[starfishprime]

I think it's not the best idea for you to pursue medical school at this point. You really would never retire.

Nah, if the OP matriculates at 42 and does a primary care residency, s/he'll be an attending at ~50 + 15-20 years in practice -> normal retirement. 15 years in practice is enough to repay moderate loan debt and then some.

 

[PAGuyana]

Wash,

I'm a PA with over 8 years of experience currently applying to medical school. I too am in my late 30s. PM me for some frank advice. There are many inside things about the PA profession you should know before you make the kind of committment you are about to.

 

[Depakote]

I posted this here before, and then again on the non-traditional board. It must have been moved there permanently. I was getting more responses here (thank you to the 10 who responded), thus the re-post here.

I found your original pre-allo thread and merged the two.

 

[sirus_virus]

I am so glad to have found this forum. I am currently writing my dissertation to graduate this summer with a PhD in public health. I have clinical research experience and miss the patient interaction. I was recently accepted into a PA program to start in Jan 2010. However, I cannot decide if I want to go the PA route or the MD route. I am kinda older (39 in June), husband and 3 preteen kids. I plan to do patient care first and the some research and academia in the future.

I see lots of you here applying to MD school after PA due to hitting the 'glass ceiling'. The MD route, although satisfying is too long: 2 years postback (advisor says my Bio and Chem are too old + no good for MCATs), 4 years med school, 3 years residency = 9 years. Plus being away from my family and the debt is not too enticing.

With a PhD and PA-C, will I have better opportunities? Others have told me that doing PA now is backtracking. Should I go to PA school and then if I am dissatisfied go to MD school? I am afraid to give up my seat for next Jan and then not get into MD school.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Unless you get some mega scholarship, do not touch the MD with a stick. There are better ways to waste your time.

 

[TMP-SMX]

Nah, if the OP matriculates at 42 and does a primary care residency, s/he'll be an attending at ~50 + 15-20 years in practice -> normal retirement. 15 years in practice is enough to repay moderate loan debt and then some.

Yeah but there are expenses to life besides medical student loans. Especially with those three kids that are going to be going to college at about the same time when the OP isn't going to have a lot of cash at all.

OP, does your wife work?

Either way I'd still recommend the PA route.

 

[Wash]

Thank you Depakote for merging my posts.

Do you have all the pre-reqs done for med school matriculation (im not sure of the pre-reqs for pa school, Having a PhD wont allow you to circumvent that stuff. )? quote]

I have some of the prerequisites for med school done, but my career counselor says they are old (10 years) and that I should re-take them. I agree, especially for MCAT preparation. It would take 2 years part-time to finish my prerequistes and many postbac programs in my area offer linkage programs which would eliminate the glide year. Getting good grades for the linkage programs will not be a problem for me.

OP, does your wife work? .

I am the wife. But yes, my husband works wih fair pay.

Please keep the suggestions coming. I am learning alot from these posts.

 

[pietachok]

Advisers aren't always right about you needing to re-take things. As long as you have stayed in academia, I find that many of us have gotten away with supposedly "expired" coursework.

If you look in the MSAR, I don't think I have seen any schools that require your coursework be completed in a certain timeframe. The largest concern is that you can't handle the course load. If you just completed a PhD program, I don't thin that will be a concern.

I took my math and physics pre-req's in 99-00. And I just got into school this year.

 

[ninetynine]

Going from a PhD to PA is a professional regression and not progression. Your concerns about your age, debt and being away from family are definitely understanble and valid.

A PhD is one of the highest possible academic degrees. At your level, an MD is the only equivalent degree (besides a JD or other doctorate degree.). It doesn't make sense to have a PhD and then spend the rest of your life as merely a Physician's Assistant when you've already demonstrated that your credentials are worth so much more. A PA would be limiting. Have you considered nursing? Possibly a PhD or MS in Nursing would be fitting. With that degree, you would have broad access to all areas of the medical field, including research, clinical practice, teaching, etc. It would cost less and take less time than medicine while allowing you your desire for patient interaction. You could take your prereqs at a community college for a low price, and then enter a good program without taking away as much time with family as the MD route would take. Also, if you're thinking of clinical academia and research, a doctorate clinical degree will be almost essential. Nobody would hire a PA to do research or academia - at least for the top positions. At your level, don't compromise for the PA - it's definitely a huge step down. If you choose to go into clinical practice, your PA is going to be what counts the most, and your high PhD degree wont count for much as far as access and opportunities. If you want to maximize your opportunities using what you already have, if you got a M.S. or PhD in nursing, your PhD would only complement your already established credentials, producing a strong combination; a PA would only detract from your credentials. The overall worth of having two PhD's will be significantly greater. Best of luck.

 

[glypha1104]

A PhD is one of the highest possible academic degrees. At your level, an MD is the only equivalent degree (besides a JD or other doctorate degree.). It doesn't make sense to have a PhD and then spend the rest of your life as merely a Physician's Assistant when you've already demonstrated that your credentials are worth so much more. A PA would be limiting. Have you considered nursing? Possibly a PhD or MS in Nursing would be fitting. With that degree, you would have broad access to all areas of the medical field, including research, clinical practice, teaching, etc. It would cost less and take less time than medicine while allowing you your desire for patient interaction. You could take your prereqs at a community college for a low price, and then enter a good program without taking away as much time with family as the MD route would take. Also, if you're thinking of clinical academia and research, a doctorate clinical degree will be almost essential. Nobody would hire a PA to do research or academia - at least for the top positions. At your level, don't compromise for the PA - it's definitely a huge step down. If you choose to go into clinical practice, your PA is going to be what counts the most, and your high PhD degree wont count for much as far as access and opportunities. If you want to maximize your opportunities using what you already have, if you got a M.S. or PhD in nursing, your PhD would only complement your already established credentials, producing a strong combination; a PA would only detract from your credentials. The overall worth of having two PhD's will be significantly greater. Best of
luck.

Are you confusing a physician assitant with a medical assistant, because there is a huge difference.

 

[sirius08]

Advisers aren't always right about you needing to re-take things. As long as you have stayed in academia, I find that many of us have gotten away with supposedly "expired" coursework.

If you look in the MSAR, I don't think I have seen any schools that require your coursework be completed in a certain timeframe. The largest concern is that you can't handle the course load. If you just completed a PhD program, I don't thin that will be a concern.

I took my math and physics pre-req's in 99-00. And I just got into school this year.

Agreed. I took most of my prerequisites before 1991 (all except organic chemistry, which I took in 1996). I've been accepted to 3 allopathic schools so far.

 

[surftheiop]

ugh some of you guys saying "OH noes your going to regress your career instead of profess it" scare me.

There is more to life than "progressing" your career. (I think you all are using a faulty defintion of progress anyway, i say progress is doing what makes you most happy so if i lawyer stops practicing law b/c he loves teaching highschool english then he is indeed progressing his career).

I assume the OP would say that being a good Mom is incredibly important to her (or Dad if the OP where male, it wouldnt change my responce).

If she does PA school she will get to do the thing she apparently has a passion for (clinical contact with patients) for 40hrs a week and then go home to be a parent. Also in achieving this she will have less stressful schooling and less debt.

If she goes to MD school she will indeed get to say "Look at me "progress" my career!" But it will cost her 4 years of -25k a year salary, followed by 4 years of 80 hour weeks with night calls, etc. That takes a physical toll on people in their mid 20's and the physical/mental cost of residency would be massive on someone in their 40s. Even when she's done with that medicine is a very time demanding profession as a whole.

I would say go to PA school, do what you love, see your kids grow up and avoid an early death caused by the stress of residency/medschool in the 40s.