Physician forcibly removed from plane

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rakotomazoto

rakotomazoto

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WATCH: Man forcibly removed from overbooked United flight

Physician dragged off of overbooked flight after refusing to give up his seat. Apparently, he was randomly selected after no one else was willing to volunteer to give up their seat and they still wanted more room to seat some United employees. He refused to budge, saying he had patients to see in the morning. Watch the videos, they literally dragged him off the plane!
 
I hate United with the heat of 1000 dying stars, but I was actually on their side when they wouldn't let the kid board for violating the free ticket dress code.

This whole incident was ******ed. No takers at $800? Offer $1000. Then $1200. And on until someone volunteers to get off. You're the clowns who overbooked the plane so badly you can't even move your own flight crews around. Eat the cost and be done with it.
 
$400-800 isn't enough compensation for some people. We all would lose money if we were fee for service.

Airline gonna to have to write $$$$ to make this problem go away.

Yes doc doesn't look good in this also.

Warning to all ur guys who like to take the lastest flight home....a couple of my former colleagues have been reprimanded by "missing their flight" back from vacation.

One guy missed his fight from NYC to Florida. He claimed he couldn't get a flight back

Yet there are 30-40 nonstop flights on multiple airlines for Sunday to Florida from NYC. But he Chose To take the lastest flight.

Bottom line: don't take the lastest flight back.
 
It's usually in the fine print that they can do this, doesn't make it right but they do reserve the right to bump you.
Keeping that in mind, this passenger looked like a jackass IMO. IF the guy really is a doctor (we will see, but he may have just been saying that in a futile attempt to keep his seat), it's even worse.
As aneftp pointed out, expect this and make arrangements if you have to be at the hospital at a certain time.
Big customer service fail on the part of United, but being defiant and holding up a plane full of people who also have places to be is ridiculous.
 
They had to unboard the plane and cleanup the blood from the passenger before allowing everyone to reboard again.
 
The passenger may or may not have looked like he was a jackass, but I would encourage his to get a lawyer.

According to United's Contract of Carriage, it appears the good doctor was in the right, and United was wrong. United's Contract of Carriage speaks only to DENYING BOARDING to confirmed passengers on flights that are OVERSOLD.

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25

United didn't try to deny the his boarding, they permitted him to board the flight and then physically removed him from the flight. Second, the flight did not appear to be OVERSOLD, in that United did not sell tickets to the individuals it attempted to give preference to over its paying, boarded passengers.

As such, Asian bro was an authorized licensee of United and his presence on the plane was lawful at all times. United attempted to unilaterally and unlawfully revoke his licensee status, and he was within his rights to refuse.

EDIT: The above is based upon Rule 25 in United's Contract of Carriage. Rule 21, which lists the circumstances where United may refuse to transport a ticket holding passenger, further supports this interpretation of the Contract of Carriage.
His situation was clearly a "refusal to transport" by United. However, overselling the flight is not listed as a reason in Rule 21 for United to refuse transport of a passengers. The only relief afforded to United for oversold flights is in Rule 25, which is limited to "denying boarding." The Contract of Carriage's Rule specifically pertaining to situations where United may remove a boarded passenger from a flight dispels any remaining doubt that Rule 25 concerning "denied boarding" can be interpreted to apply to forced deboarding.
 
Yeah, the physician acted immaturely and possibly illegally in refusing to obey an officer, but a jury isn't going to care. They're going to see this as Big Corporation vs the little guy, which it is.

Why are United and other airlines able to treat passengers like $hit? Because they have a monopoly with bureaucratic/legal barriers to entry and little real competition.

United overbooks and needs an extra seat? They should have started bidding and not stopped at $400 like they did. Imagine if you needed to buy a ticket from United at the last minute. It would cost you a hell of a lot more than $400...

I hope this guy gets rich.
 
teacher2md said:
Yeah, the physician acted immaturely and possibly illegally in refusing to obey an officer, but a jury isn't going to care. They're going to see this as Big Corporation vs the little guy, which it is.

Why are United and other airlines able to treat passengers like $hit? Because they have a monopoly with bureaucratic/legal barriers to entry and little real competition.

United overbooks and needs an extra seat? They should have started bidding and not stopped at $400 like they did. Imagine if you needed to buy a ticket from United at the last minute. It would cost you a hell of a lot more than $400...

I hope this guy gets rich.
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Why is saying no acting immaturely? I wouldve said the same thing.
 
I don't even think he sounds like such an dingus, considering he'd boarded the plane and they're trying to extract him last minute. It sounds like he wasn't physically violent, and he said he wanted to speak to his lawyer... seems reasonable enough.

Even if united was in the right to extract him (which is debatable) it seems that knocking someone unconscious and then dragging them on the floor before getting medical attention is wildly in the wrong.

How much do you think he'll ask/sue for and settle for? I'd estimate he'd ask for $100 million and settle for $10 million.
 
I have my doubts whether this guy would win a lawsuit. the moment they asked him to leave the plane and he refused, he was trespassing. and it was CPD who removed him. Cops have gotten away with cold-blooded murder caught on video; a little bloody mouth? pshaw

but, both sides were being douches. united probably could have handled the situation better.
 
leaverus said:
I have my doubts whether this guy would win a lawsuit. the moment they asked him to leave the plane and he refused, he was trespassing. and it was CPD who removed him. Cops have gotten away with cold-blooded murder caught on video; a little bloody mouth? pshaw

but, both sides were being douches. united probably could have handled the situation better.
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Of course he'll win a civil suit. Show up in a nexk brace, sob story of needing to take care impoverished patients, blame over reaching corporate America and the police, $$$$$$.
 
Did they really stop the bidding at $400? Given the right travel circumstances I'd would absolutely (and have in the recent past) taken $700-800 to take the next flight out - that's basically a round trip flight to most places in the country for free. Surely someone on that plane would have taken the $ at some level, I can't imagine it getting much higher than that.
 
leaverus said:
I have my doubts whether this guy would win a lawsuit. the moment they asked him to leave the plane and he refused, he was trespassing.
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Why would anyone think this is illegal or tresspassing?

They gave him the seat. If they want to revoke his ticket they better take him out without hurting him. I don't see any reason why he needs to cooperate. It was a unilateral decision.
 
The airlines never offer enough money to entice me. At $1200 cash/check I'd consider. I don't want their ****ty worthless voucher plus/minus crappy overnight hotel room since I wouldn't fly with them again anyway.
 
teeva said:
The airlines never offer enough money to entice me. At $1200 cash/check I'd consider. I don't want their ****ty worthless voucher since I wouldn't fly with them again anyway.
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How much would you have to pay someone last minute to give up their seat? 1k, 2k, 3k? Cash!

A 400 or 800 voucher doesn't cut it.
 
urge said:
How much would you have to pay someone last minute to give up their seat? 1k, 2k, 3k? Cash!

A 400 or 800 voucher doesn't cut it.
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I've taken them up when they put me up in a hotel for the night and gave me a seat on the next morning's flight and a voucher for a free round trip ticket. With offers like that there's usually 3-5 people willing to give up their seats. It didn't cost the airline much, since they have package deals with hotels to house their flight crews. United was being way too stingy offering just $400 in future travel.
 
Chip N Sawbones said:
I've taken them up when they put me up in a hotel for the night and gave me a seat on the next morning's flight and a voucher for a free round trip ticket. With offers like that there's usually 3-5 people willing to give up their seats. It didn't cost the airline much, since they have package deals with hotels to house their flight crews. United was being way too stingy offering just $400 in future travel.
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That's the thing. The compensation plus the flight sucks. They offered him the 3pm flight the next day. Crazy. Big difference being on first flight the next day vs 3pm flight.

I just flew back from Hawaii. Stopped over in Los Angeles. Spent the night at LAX at hotel cause I got young kids rather than taking 150 am flight back to Florida.

Anyways. I had the 1050am flight back to Florida from LAX. They needed 4 volunteers as well. I knew there was a 1pm flight leaving to Florida. So I asked. But those fools wanted me to take the 1pm flight the NEXT DAY. F THAT.

THE airlines have zero incentive to offer u the NEXT FLIGHT. HECK they didn't offer the 1pm flight. They didn't offer the 7am flight next day either. It was the 1pm flight the next day.

They offered $400. No takers. $600. No takers. Went $800 no takers. (Because of the 1pm flight the next day). Finally got takers at $1000. Plus hotel for the night plus food voucher. But this was all done at the gate.
 
The airline was clearly in the morally wrong here. Even if they have fine print somewhere, to try to protect themselves in the event something like this happens. That's like those child predators writing a letter ahead of time stating their intent, just in case they are caught, hoping that will exonerate them somehow.

We've all handled stressful situations less than perfect. I'm sure in all this man's life its the first time something like this has happened. It was way out of left field, and giving up his seat meant he'd be late for work, I'd be just as upset. Yeah, playing nice may have prevented him from getting beat up, but then this immoral thing would not have got the publicity it did, and no one would have rallied behind the guy. Its like telling your boss you got stuck in traffic. He really doesn't believe you. But if you stopped to help someone who got into a car accident and show up to work with blood on your shirt, its hard to not believe that.
 
urge said:
Why would anyone think this is illegal or tresspassing?

They gave him the seat. If they want to revoke his ticket they better take him out without hurting him. I don't see any reason why he needs to cooperate. It was a unilateral decision.
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Because if he had he wouldn't have gotten his ass handed to him.

I can absolutely see making a fuss, but as soon as the police showed up he should've exited the plane.
 
Looks like the airline was legally incorrect here. But honestly, that's not even the part that bothers me the most.

While the legal aspects can be argued, the PR side of this is INCREDIBLE. For a CEO to issue TWO statements after this event and continue to blame the passenger is INSANE. Who is united's PR TEAM?!?! If United wants to bloody and pull someone down an aisle it should be the PR people...This is the most insensitive PR response of all time.

The correct PR response:

"We regret the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the events seen in the video. We are investigating these circumstances and would like to sincerely apologize to all our customers and in particular to the customer that was asked to deplane. We are in the process of reaching out to him personally to see how we can help remedy this situation. Furthermore, we will review all our policies and procedures to ensure that an event like this does not happen again on any United aircraft."

PS: I will charge far less for the use of this statement than whatever high powered PR firm has charged united.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
I can absolutely see making a fuss, but as soon as the police showed up he should've exited the plane.
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Yes and No. I'm not one to get in fights with cops, but under what legal authority do they have to deplane him? As has been mentioned before, United cannot kick him off the plane for an oversold flight. They can only deny him boarding. Once he's boarded, it's game over. Not to mention the plane wasn't oversold to begin with. United is in breach of contract, here.

Now, trying to explain that to the cops may be a different story... 😉
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
Because if he had he wouldn't have gotten his ass handed to him.

I can absolutely see making a fuss, but as soon as the police showed up he should've exited the plane.
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They took him out unconscious. I doubt they took him to the ER for a CT scan of the head.

This is wrong on so many levels.

The stock is down 2% today. Whos in their sane mind is going to fly with them?
 
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facted said:
Yes and No. I'm not one to get in fights with cops, but under what legal authority do they have to deplane him? As has been mentioned before, United cannot kick him off the plane for an oversold flight. They can only deny him boarding. Once he's boarded, it's game over. Not to mention the plane wasn't oversold to begin with. United is in breach of contract, here.

Now, trying to explain that to the cops may be a different story... 😉
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That is what this article says too.

United's overbooking policy: The reason they can kick you off your flight
 
coroner said:
That's what you and a lot of people on twitter say. Until a year from now when everyone forgets about this and they get a cheaper fare on Orbitz for 10 bucks flying United...:laugh:
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Eh, maybe, maybe not. I once had a absurd customer service experience with Spirit Airlines and vowed never to fly them again. To this day, no matter how much cheaper they are than whoever else, I refuse to fly them.
 
facted said:
Yes and No. I'm not one to get in fights with cops, but under what legal authority do they have to deplane him? As has been mentioned before, United cannot kick him off the plane for an oversold flight. They can only deny him boarding. Once he's boarded, it's game over. Not to mention the plane wasn't oversold to begin with. United is in breach of contract, here.

Now, trying to explain that to the cops may be a different story... 😉
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I don't think the bolded is true.

Having read through the Contract of Carriage (slow morning), he can be forcibly deplaned if he refuses to follow the commands of the flight crew. Now we can argue back and forth whether an order to get off the plane qualifies, but I'd bet it does.
 
facted said:
Eh, maybe, maybe not. I once had a absurd customer service experience with Spirit Airlines and vowed never to fly them again. To this day, no matter how much cheaper they are than whoever else, I refuse to fly them.
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Yeah but most people flying don't have physician money. An extra $80 on a ticket can make a big difference. Or what it its the choice between no layover on United versus 1/2 on Delta?

You also have to remember that nowadays everyone is always mad about something but its not long before the next angry thing distracts them.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
I don't think the bolded is true.

Having read through the Contract of Carriage (slow morning), he can be forcibly deplaned if he refuses to follow the commands of the flight crew. Now we can argue back and forth whether an order to get off the plane qualifies, but I'd bet it does.
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Just to play devil's advocate, if the crew asks you to punch the person sitting next to you in the face, and you refuse, can they also deplane you? They have about as much authority to deplane you for that, than they do for the "oversold" flight once you're sitting on the airplane.
 
I would be shocked if the contract of carriage doesn't cover them from every possible scenario you can think of, including this one. The lawyers who wrote it are the best money can buy, I am sure.
Besides, who is this guy going to get the millions from? If these are police who removed him, they're the ones who roughed him up, not the airline.
 
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facted said:
Just to play devil's advocate, if the crew asks you to punch the person sitting next to you in the face, and you refuse, can they also deplane you? They have about as much authority to deplane you for that, than they do for the "oversold" flight once you're sitting on the airplane.
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Why don't you find me the section that says they can't de-plane you when overbooked.

As to your devil's advocate, yes they probably could. Though I'd take that one in court any day. This one, less so.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
Why don't you find me the section that says they can't de-plane you when overbooked.

As to your devil's advocate, yes they probably could. Though I'd take that one in court any day. This one, less so.
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Well, why don't you find me the section of the FAA common carrier agreement that says they can? Once you're on the plane, which this guy was, that supersedes your agreement with the airline. At the gate, you are 100% correct.

Plus, while this is a game of semantics, they actually weren't overbooked. They did not sell more seats than are on the plane. They were trying to put 4 employees on the plane instead of paying customers. Not sure how far that would take you legally as I'm not sure what the definition of overbook is per the contract. I'm sure there are court cases related to it...
 
facted said:
Well, why don't you find me the section of the FAA common carrier agreement that says they can? Once you're on the plane, which this guy was, that supersedes your agreement with the airline. At the gate, you are 100% correct.

Plus, while this is a game of semantics, they actually weren't overbooked. They did not sell more seats than are on the plane. They were trying to put 4 employees on the plane instead of paying customers. Not sure how far that would take you legally as I'm not sure what the definition of overbook is per the contract. I'm sure there are court cases related to it...
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Everyone keeps saying some variation of the bolded, but I can find nothing that confirms this. That's the part I'm asking about and can't seem to find on my own.

Here is what I have found:

Aviation Attorney Questions United Passenger's Forcible Removal

“Certainly you can be involuntarily bumped,“ aviation attorney Joseph LoRusso told CBS4’s Kelly Werthmann. “Can you be forcibly removed in a situation like this? That’s where we get into a bit of a gray area.”

LoRusso said federal law allows airlines to involuntarily remove passengers from overbooked flights, with compensation. Passengers have the right to refuse, LoRusso added, but if a person does not comply with airline instructions, federal law does permit the airline to ask authorities to remove the passenger from the plane.

And this: The government is now reviewing the United Airlines incident where a man was dragged off a plane

The DOT's statement reads in full:

"The Department of Transportation (USDOT) remains committed to protecting the rights of consumers and is reviewing the involuntary denied boarding of passenger(s) from United Express flight 3411 to determine whether the airline complied with the oversales rule. The Department is responsible for ensuring that airlines comply with the Department's consumer protection regulations including its oversales rule. While it is legal for airlines to involuntary bump passengers from an oversold flight when there are not enough volunteers, it is the airline's responsibility to determine its own fair boarding priorities."



Had this not been considered a denial of boarding, one would think the DOT would have said as much.
 
The biggest problem here is the fact that the airline industry consists of only a few major carriers. This is what happens when you stifle competition and allow these companies to get this big. There's no customer service. There's no pricing or service competition. At many airports you essentially have a monopoly with only one major airline represented. The consolidation we see in anesthesia happens in every industry and it is terrible for consumers and the economy.
 
Legal or not, for a company that made $2.3 billion last year, this should've been handle differently. There's no way this gets to civil court. As much as you'd like to boycott them, it's difficult as GravelRider mentioned above.

On a personal note, I have successfully boycotted United since 2005. I had a flight from college to home then with a connection through Charlotte. On the way home, the guy "staffing" the door closed it despite seeing me running his direction. I missed the connecting flight bc of mechanical delay at the first airport. On my way back to school, our entire flight was bumped 24 hours. There had been storms in the region and they flew the plane that had been scheduled away from our airport to Chicago to accommodate those passengers who had been affected by the storms. My departing airport had not had any of the storms or weather issues in general, but this was deemed an "Act of God" per the ticketing counter and therefore not eligible for compensation. I haven't flown them since.
 
Well....
If the following is true, united is probably feeling pretty confident about their chances in front of a jury.
The man is being identified as Dr David Dao, and he has been disciplined by the Kentucky medical board and convicted of felonies realated to prescription drugs. Sounds like he also had sex with a patient who also worked for the practice.
So the guy is a felon....not sure he'd fare so well in front of a jury.
 
Man o War said:
Well....
If the following is true, united is probably feeling pretty confident about their chances in front of a jury.
The man is being identified as Dr David Dao, and he has been disciplined by the Kentucky medical board and convicted of felonies realated to prescription drugs. Sounds like he also had sex with a patient who also worked for the practice.
So the guy is a felon....not sure he'd fare so well in front of a jury.
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Well, I would think it's highly unlikely a jury gets to hear any of that as it doesn't relate in the least to him sitting on an airplane.
 
The Kentucky Medical Board site physician look-up tool is down (no surprise), but someone does appear to have grabbed information before it went:

http://www.courier-journal.com/stor...united-flight-doctor-troubled-past/100318320/

Dao was convicted of multiple felony counts of obtaining drugs by fraud or deceit in November 2004 and was placed on five years of supervised probation in January 2005, according to the documents. He surrendered his medical license the next month.

The Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure permitted Dao to resume practicing medicine in 2015 under certain conditions.
 
This is a case where oversold flights should be illegal. It is not rocket science to avoid overselling a flight since computer databanks can easily cutoff excess sales. However the airlines frequently intentionally oversell, planning to bump someone from the flight. It is so common, that Congress should act to make it illegal. The corollary is that once a seat is booked and paid, the airline gets to keep the money unless they can book someone else in that slot. No flight changes. Some airlines already do this, so United should adapt their booking system.
 
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