Physician Shadowing but no LOR from one?

[donks06]

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I have shadowed seven physicians (5 MDs and 2 DOs). I will probably be getting a letter from a DO, but I imagine it will only be applicable to submit to DO schools (the DO is very OMM savvy). The MDs I have shadowed, one of which I have mentioned in my personal statement, I probably will not get a letter from ( I just don't fell like I've shadowed him enough, nor will I be able to so that I could ask for a letter.)

It seems as if MD school are less concerned about the LOR from physicians than DO schools. Will I be screwed if I don't have one?

Should I submit a DO LOR to MD schools even if it might touch on OMM a little?

 

[45408]

Don't worry. Most schools don't ask for a letter from an MD anyways. None of the ones I applied to did.

 

[saki0005]

I would not submit an LOR from a DO to an MD program, nor would I submit a mediocre LOR from an MD to an MD program.

 

[thegymbum]

None of my LOR's are from doctors that I shadowed. Honestly I don't feel like shadowing someone a few times gives a very profound picture of who you are as a person, at least in the sense of what med schools want to know about you. If you really got to know them well and have shown them that you have what it takes, it might be worth it, but I definitely don't think you absolutely have to have one of them write you one...

 

[Gabby]

Deleted

 

[saki0005]

None of my LOR's are from doctors that I shadowed. Honestly I don't feel like shadowing someone a few times gives a very profound picture of who you are as a person, at least in the sense of what med schools want to know about you. If you really got to know them well and have shown them that you have what it takes, it might be worth it, but I definitely don't think you absolutely have to have one of them write you one...

Well said. LOR's are meant to highlight your skills as a pre-med and often to rank students in comparison to other pre-meds the letter author has come in contact with. How can someone recommend you if they haven't seen you do anything other than awkwardly follow them around during morning rounds a few times. You need to find someone who knows your character and work ethic.

 

[saki0005]

Why? When this question came up a few weeks ago, everyone who replied said that MD schools have absolutely no problem with a DO letter. Why do you say otherwise?

If I were sitting on a MD program adcom meeting and read a letter from a DO and the entire letter was geared towards why this student is a strong DO candidate...see where I'm going with this?

 

[Gabby]

Well said. LOR's are meant to highlight your skills as a pre-med and often to rank students in comparison to other pre-meds the letter author has come in contact with. How can someone recommend you if they haven't seen you do anything other than awkwardly follow them around during morning rounds a few times. You need to find someone who knows your character and work ethic.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Do some people just show up once or twice to shadow? Sure. Those people probably haven't given the doctor anything to write. However, the ones who spend a year or more shadowing (especially if it's the same physician) should definitely submit an LOR if the doctor wants to write one. The doctor knows what adcoms are looking for. It isn't like he/she is going to write one if he/she doesn't feel that you've demonstrated anything other than walking around for a few hours. Also, I don't know of a doctor who would sign his/her name to a letter that exaggerates a candidate's abilities. So, if the shadower is smart about it and asks, "can you, in good conscience, write me a glowing letter of recommendation?" and the doctor says yes, I'd take advantage of the opportunity and submit the letter, whether it's DO or MD.

 

[Gabby]

If I were sitting on a MD program adcom meeting and read a letter from a DO and the entire letter was geared towards why this student is a strong DO candidate...see where I'm going with this?

I guess it depends on the DO. It's acceptable for a DO to say "so and so will make an excellent physician" and not specify MD or DO. I don't think there's anything wrong with it as long as the DO knows, in advance, that the student is applying to both programs

 

[saki0005]

I couldn't disagree with you more. Do some people just show up once or twice to shadow? Sure. Those people probably haven't given the doctor anything to write. However, the ones who spend a year or more shadowing (especially if it's the same physician) should definitely submit an LOR if the doctor wants to write one. The doctor knows what adcoms are looking for. It isn't like he/she is going to write one if he/she doesn't feel that you've demonstrated anything other than walking around for a few hours. Also, I don't know of a doctor who would sign his/her name to a letter that exaggerates a candidate's abilities. So, if the shadower is smart about it and asks, "can you, in good conscience, write me a glowing letter of recommendation?" and the doctor says yes, I'd take advantage of the opportunity and submit the letter, whether it's DO or MD.

I don't understand. You disagree with me and proceed to regurg everything I just said. Scroll up and note that I was referring to a short shadowing experience. I said...

How can someone recommend you if they haven't seen you do anything other than awkwardly follow them around during morning rounds a few times.

You should absolutely submit a letter from a physician who you have shadowed for over a year. I feel like you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Read the post carefully before you decide to go postal.

 

[saki0005]

I guess it depends on the DO. It's acceptable for a DO to say "so and so will make an excellent physician" and not specify MD or DO. I don't think there's anything wrong with it as long as the DO knows, in advance, that the student is applying to both programs

How does the student know what the letter says? Aren't we supposed to waive our rights to access our LOR's?

 

[Gabby]

I don't understand. You disagree with me and proceed to regurg everything I just said. Scroll up and note that I was referring to a short shadowing experience. I said...

You should absolutely submit a letter from a physician who you have shadowed for over a year. I feel like you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Read the post carefully before you decide to go postal.

Actually what you were responding to was a post that said that the ***MD*** didn't know him long enough. If he made the distinction, then one could reasonably assume that the DO must have known him long enough since he does have an LOR from the DO. With that in mind, I disagreed with your post that said that LORs from physicians aren't beneifical because they don't know your character and work ethic. Clearly, the OP felt the DO did know his character and work ethic. Otherwise, why collect one from the DO when he said he wouldn't ask the MD for one?

And I'd appreciate it if, in the future, you wouldn't insult me when you reply. I did read your post. I replied to your post because I disagreed. I'm sorry if that offended you, but when I read something I disagree with, I speak up.

Edited to add: By the way, the sentence I disagreed with was you saying that the OP needs to find someone who knows his character and work ethic. I was disagreeing to say that it's quite possible this DO does know his character and work ethic. I felt your post generalized the OP's situation and that you were implying that shadowing doesn't give a physician time to get to know you. That's why I disagreed.

 

[Gabby]

How does the student know what the letter says? Aren't we supposed to waive our rights to access our LOR's?

If you tell the DO that you are applying to both programs and you make it clear that you plan to send the LOR to both, what reason would a DO have to screw you over by writing, "so and so would make a great osteopathic physician"? It just wouldn't make sense that a doctor would do that. Also, if you're asking a DO for an LOR, then presumably, you know him/her well enough to know that he/she would make you look good in front of the adcoms. Saying that you're suited to be a DO to an MD adcom obviously would not.

 

[saki0005]

Actually what you were responding to was a post that said that the ***MD*** didn't know him long enough. If he made the distinction, then one could reasonably assume that the DO must have known him long enough since he does have an LOR from the DO. With that in mind, I disagreed with your post that said that LORs from physicians aren't beneifical because they don't know your character and work ethic. Clearly, the OP felt the DO did know his character and work ethic. Otherwise, why collect one from the DO when he said he wouldn't ask the MD for one?

And I'd appreciate it if, in the future, you wouldn't insult me when you reply. I did read your post. I replied to your post because I disagreed. I'm sorry if that offended you, but when I read something I disagree with, I speak up.

Oh, did I insult you? Please except my deepest most heart felt apology. All I remember doing was disagreeing with you...it's something grownups tend to do from time to time.

 

[Gabby]

Oh, did I insult you? Please except my deepest most heart felt apology. All I remember doing was disagreeing with you...it's something grownups tend to do from time to time.

Read the post carefully before you decide to go postal.

Sounds like an insult to me since that word does carry a lot of negative connotations. But what do I know? Carry on. I'm not about to engage you any further.

 

[saki0005]

donks06, in the future you should just write to Gabby directly. The rest of us don't know what the f**k we're talking about and we tend to be insulting.

Cheers!