Physician Union

[sweetalkr]

Everyone,

I have been extremely alarmed with the pattern developing in healthcare politics. I strongly believe the government is trying to eliminate private practices, leading us to be hospital employees, then control our salaries/jobs as hospital employees. I know this effects all specialties, not just Anesthesiology or Pain Medicine.

This is not a legal comittment at all, but more of an electronic "head count". If I were to proceed with the process of hiring a lawyer to legally create a physician's union, I want to know how many physicians would support this initiative. The point of the union would not be to leave critically ill patients without care, but to show that we as physicians will not allow lawyers to run our healthcare system. As physicians, our salaries account for 10-15% of health care costs, however we seem to be the only slice of the pie upon which politicians want to cut back. We need to stand strong as one, across all specialties, and return to practicing health care for what is best for the patient, not what is best for the health insurance company's bottom line. Personally, my patient care is affected on a daily basis, whether it is approval for a procedure I know will help or simply switching from neurontin to lyrica and awaiting approval.

If you truly feel like you would stand behind a physician's union financially, since politics boils down to money, please respond with a yes. If you are hesitant, say no because I want to get a head count of people that truly want to form a political union so we physicians can have a say in how we take care of our patients. Until lawyers and politicians allow doctors to dictate what they charge and how they run their law firms, we should be in charge of healthcare. My thoughts are to create a union of employed physicians since a union of self-employed physicians is illegal. I would like to create a PAC through which other people who support the cause but can not join the union are able to donate money. Please respond to [email protected] and PLEASE forward this email to any and every MD/physician across every specialty that you can think of. Thank you.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[LADoc00]

Are you serious? You realize:
1.) there already is a large Physicians union, it is absolutely worthless
2.) recent history indicates that not only have Unions not done much since the 40-hr work and workplace safety almost 1/2 a century ago, but when they do something now it tends to involve organized crime, corruption and theft from its members

why not just beat up all the docs, give their paychecks to their sworn enemies and make a lawyer the President for another 4 years? save everyone the organizing time.

oh snap, that already happened.

 

[Aether2000]

They are illegal.....have been for eons.

 

[sweetalkr]

after some research, only self-employed physicians can not unionize.
and as a friend pointed out, maybe it is an all-encompassing special interest group our physicians lack.

regardless, there are plenty of you nay-sayers, but the nay-sayers haven't done **** for our profession except get us here in the first place. my generation of physicians want to do something. I don't care if this is a bad idea or not, as long as this idea or a better one spurned from this idea comes forward and helps us.

 

[pastafan]

They are illegal.....have been for eons.

The illegality was predicated on physicians being management. Obviously physicians don't control medicine anymore as we have ceded control to administrators, insurance companies, and everyone else while we concentrated on the practice of medicine. Courts may view the status of physicians differently now. We are just labor....

 

[Ligament]

I'm in and will donate. Interesting we cannot unionize, isn't it? Serves Obamas agenda well, as well as those traitor physicians who support him. **** illegal. What will they
Do? Put us in jail? Go ahead. U say we should all walk out for one hour. America will fall to its knees and beg us to get back to work at any cost. We are all such a bunch of *******!!!!!

 

[Aether2000]

We may have indeed passed the threshold where unionization would be possible, but unions are implemented at the employer level, not job category or profession. Those who are still independent of hospital employment are not capable of unionization without significant legal risk. Those who are employed may pursue unionization of physicians at your hospital. This of course has to be done one hospital at a time, or if it is a system, then the entire hospital system needs to be involved. Of course, the value of the union in the 24 right to work states is somewhat limited. Union members must be willing to go out on strike and stop giving patient care, walk picket lines, carry posters, be painted by the press as greedy very highly paid malcontents, and willing to take action against those that cross picket lines. The hospitals will ultimately retaliate in legal but very damaging ways to physicians. Now, lets go bust some heads!

Below is a primer on forming a union from inebraska.com
1) Choose a union.
2) Determine "bargaining unit."
3) Get at least 30% of people in the bargaining unit to sign union cards.
4) Submit the cards to the National Labor Relations Board.
5) The NLRB will set a hearing to finalize the bargaining unit and set an election date.
6) The election will be held and a simple majority wins.

The first step involved is, obviously, your decision to organize. You should also have some confidence that at least half of the workers at your workplace would be inclined to join a union. If possible, try to form a small committee of employees dedicated to the idea, but keep things quiet. (The longer it takes management to find out about the unionization attempt, the better.) Next, you must decide what union you wish to approach, if any. (You do not need to affiliate with any union; it is possible to form your own, independent union if you so wish, and labor law will protect your independent union just as any large, international union.) Talk to as many unions as you can, find out what they have to offer, how they organize, resources, etc. Don't be afraid to approach any union, regardless of their name: bookstores have been organized by the Longshoremen, office workers by the United Auto Workers. A good place to get phone numbers for unions is under "labor organizations" in the yellow pages.

Once you have chosen a union, you need to determine what you want the "bargaining unit" to be. That is, who at your workplace will be able to be in the union and who will not. You should include workers that have common duties, interests and similar pay. Managers and security guards cannot be included. Once you have decided what you would like the bargaining unit to be, (the "official" bargaining unit will be determined at a National Labor Relations Board hearing.) you will most likely begin having people sign union cards. These "cards" may be actual cards, or simply a petition. The cards or petition will indicate that the person signing the card would like a union to represent him or her in contract talks regarding wages, benefits, and working conditions, and are completely confidential (the employer never sees them). It is important to get a person's signature and the date on these cards, or they will not be considered valid.

Once 30% of the people in the bargaining unit sign the cards, you are entitled to submit them to the National Labor Relations Board, which views 30% as a sufficient number to warrant an election, that, if won, will certify the union in your workplace. Unofficially, you should get as many signatures as you possibly can. To win the election, you need a majority to vote "yes" and it is not unusual for some individuals who signed cards to end up voting "no." A good rule-of-thumb is that if you can't get at least 60% of the people in the bargaining unit to sign cards, you won't win the election.

Once you are ready to submit the cards to the NLRB (which entails handing the cards to an official and filling out a form), you should mail a certified letter to management indicating that you wish the union to be recognized. This is just a formality, as management will almost always refuse to recognize a union without an election. Once you have submitted the cards, the NLRB will contact the employer to schedule a hearing to determine the actual bargaining unit, and to schedule the election. At the hearing, the company will most likely try to pack the bargaining unit with workers that are likely to vote no, and try to challenge workers that are likely to vote yes. The union's lawyer will most likely handle things at this stage, so don't worry too much.

Once the bargaining unit is made final, the NLRB will schedule the date of the election. The election is secret ballot, overseen by an NLRB agent, with the ballot asking the question, "Do you want the "whatever union" to represent you in contract talks with "whatever employer?"" or something similar. A "yes" vote is for the union, a "no" against. A simple majority wins.

If you win: congratulations! The company must enter into contract talks with the union regarding wages, benefits, and working conditions.

If you lose: you must wait at least one year before trying again.

There are other options, of course: one need not rely on the NLRB process to win recognition to bargain for a contract. Employees can also try to force an employer to recognize them as a union through work actions such as strikes. This can be done even if an election was lost, although if you didn't have the strength to win the election, you may not have the strength to force recognition. (You can redefine your bargaining unit to increase your chances. For example, if your unit included factory workers and office staff, and the office staff voted against you in sufficient numbers to cause you to lose the election, you might try to get just the factory workers, where there is more solidarity, recognized.)

 

[sweetalkr]

I appreciate the very detailed response.
I would never advocate walking out on patients, but only seeing urgent/emergent patients and not seeing new patients, not seeing routine f/u or anything non-emergent. once elective surgeries stop and a hospital loses (when i was in residency it was) 1500$ an hour, then they will perk up their ears and listen to physicians.

Physician salaries have dropped faster than any other profession since the 1980s. we have lawyers telling us how to practice and what to charge. did you know lawyers charge a minimum of 500$ an hour for consultation in most situations? at least in my state.

Essentially, I am pushing for physician's voices to be heard without hurting sick patients, but cutting the lifeline (profits/$) from coming into the hospital. this is completely a grassroots effort, and i am gathering names and seeing if i can get about 1000 physicians across multiple specialties to say yes. you would be surprised at the overwhelming response. however, if i don't get an email stating yes, it is impossible to know if we have the numbers. please respond and please forward this to other specialties. please please please. we need to fight starting now

 

[Aether2000]

I am very sympathetic to the cause, and extremely concerned about the hegemony of hospitals over the health care system. To craft a true union, one must do this at the employer level. However, gathering a list of interested parties in obtaining more information about union formation would certainly not be illegal, and may demonstrate to the public the grave situation the medical profession faces.

 

[Disciple]

Everyone,

I have been extremely alarmed with the pattern developing in healthcare politics. I strongly believe the government is trying to eliminate private practices, leading us to be hospital employees, then control our salaries/jobs as hospital employees. I know this effects all specialties, not just Anesthesiology or Pain Medicine.

If you want to get a better idea of the interest level, you may want to post this on a forum like Sermo.

 

[PinchandBurn]

I appreciate the very detailed response.
I would never advocate walking out on patients, but only seeing urgent/emergent patients and not seeing new patients, not seeing routine f/u or anything non-emergent. once elective surgeries stop and a hospital loses (when i was in residency it was) 1500$ an hour, then they will perk up their ears and listen to physicians.

Physician salaries have dropped faster than any other profession since the 1980s. we have lawyers telling us how to practice and what to charge. did you know lawyers charge a minimum of 500$ an hour for consultation in most situations? at least in my state.

Essentially, I am pushing for physician's voices to be heard without hurting sick patients, but cutting the lifeline (profits/$) from coming into the hospital. this is completely a grassroots effort, and i am gathering names and seeing if i can get about 1000 physicians across multiple specialties to say yes. you would be surprised at the overwhelming response. however, if i don't get an email stating yes, it is impossible to know if we have the numbers. please respond and please forward this to other specialties. please please please. we need to fight starting now

yes. will send the email to the address. Thanks for doign this. I'm willing to donate.