Picking Residencies NJ/NYC

[ronaldinho22]

Hi, I'm an OMS-III interested in anesthesia. I currently reside in northern New Jersey and am starting to consider my residency options. I have a good living situation so ideally I would like to pursue a residency in north NJ, but I've also looked at NYC/Philly residencies as well. My question is: am I missing out on major educational opportunities or limiting my future job opportunities, by pursuing a residency such as St. Joe's or St. Barnabas vs. going into the city for a program like NYU or Columbia? Are there major differences between these programs?

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[IMGASMD]

I would go to a program that would give you the most opportunities for fellowships, job opportunities.... etc. Unless you have other constraints, family, cost.... what have you.

Those two community programs will give you a good idea about private practices. The ones in the city will give you a view of academia anesthesia.

 

[2Fast2Des]

Hi, I'm an OMS-III interested in anesthesia. I currently reside in northern New Jersey and am starting to consider my residency options. I have a good living situation so ideally I would like to pursue a residency in north NJ, but I've also looked at NYC/Philly residencies as well. My question is: am I missing out on major educational opportunities or limiting my future job opportunities, by pursuing a residency such as St. Joe's or St. Barnabas vs. going into the city for a program like NYU or Columbia? Are there major differences between these programs?

"am I missing out on major educational opportunities or limiting my future job opportunities, by pursuing a residency such as St. Joe's or St. Barnabas vs. going into the city for a program like NYU or Columbia? "

Yes, go big or go home. People (docs and pts) still look at me with more respect (deserved or not) when they hear I went to a big name center, so I'll take it haha. Pts usually say wow you must be so smart, little do they know...

 

[ronaldinho22]

so I guess the next question I have is, as a future DO, do I have a shot at matching at academic residencies in the city? What would be a step 1 cutoff score?

 

[JiPo]

Depends on what your goal is.

Are you looking at downstate, montefiore, rutgers-newark, and westchester (probably 210), or are you looking at columbia, cornell, sinai, nyu (probably 230)

I would add 10 points to these if you are a DO. This was a few years ago, so the cut off might be different now.

And this is just the cut-off. Just because you make the the cut-off does not mean you will be given an interview or be ranked high enough to match.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

so I guess the next question I have is, as a future DO, do I have a shot at matching at academic residencies in the city? What would be a step 1 cutoff score?

best bet is to look at the previous resident rosters to see how many DOs were accepted in the previous classes to see if they are DO friendly.

 

[dchz]

westchester (probably 210)

I have it on good authority the cutoff is way higher at Westchester.

Anesthesia getting pretty competitive in the last few years.

 

[JiPo]

I have it on good authority the cutoff is way higher at Westchester.

Anesthesia getting pretty competitive in the last few years.

So people with 210's have 0 shot of getting an interview at Westchester? I know Anesthesiology became more competitive recently, but I doubt that is true. Not saying the residency training is bad, but just from competitiveness standpoint, I don't think westchester is a competitive program. I remember Westchester mostly filled with SGU and IMG, and I personally know someone with step 1 around 210 that interviewed at Westchester a few years back. So at least that year, the cut off clearly wasn't much higher than 210.

 

[cgk]

Anyone have opinions on Hackensack?

 

[Peterluger]

Depends on what your goal is.

Are you looking at downstate, montefiore, rutgers-newark, and westchester (probably 210), or are you looking at columbia, cornell, sinai, nyu (probably 230)

I would add 10 points to these if you are a DO. This was a few years ago, so the cut off might be different now.

And this is just the cut-off. Just because you make the the cut-off does not mean you will be given an interview or be ranked high enough to match.

I wouldnt categorize NYU with the others....it’s better characterized as a mid-tier program. Not that it’s bad though. Also I’d recheck your cutoffs. In 2016 both montefiore and downstate had cutoffs of 230 for getting an interview (if youre not from those places). 4 years later im sure it has at least stayed the same, or gone up

 

[JiPo]

I wouldnt categorize NYU with the others....it’s better characterized as a mid-tier program. Not that it’s bad though. Also I’d recheck your cutoffs. In 2016 both montefiore and downstate had cutoffs of 230 for getting an interview (if youre not from those places). 4 years later im sure it has at least stayed the same, or gone up

Montefiore is a solid mid-tier program, so I would buy that. Downstate with 230 cutoff is very hard to believe. Average step 1 for our specialty is 230, and for a below average program to have cutoff of average score is hard to believe. Maybe that is why they have trouble filling every year. My year, I think they only filled half of their spots. Maybe they should loosen their cutoff.

 

[nimbus]

Montefiore is a solid mid-tier program, so I would buy that. Downstate with 230 cutoff is very hard to believe. Average step 1 for our specialty is 230, and for a below average program to have cutoff of average score is hard to believe. Maybe that is why they have trouble filling every year. My year, I think they only filled half of their spots. Maybe they should loosen their cutoff.

Maybe they had problems in the past with low scoring residents and don’t want to risk it.

 

[Peterluger]

Montefiore is in the Bronx. Enough said. And Downstate is definitely better than your average anesthesia program, this has been known for several decades now

 

[JiPo]

Montefiore is in the Bronx. Enough said. And Downstate is definitely better than your average anesthesia program, this has been known for several decades now

Downstate match
2016: only filled 10 out of 16 spots (Advanced and Categorical)
2017: only filled 4 out of 15 spots
2018: only filled 9 out of 15 spots
2019: Finally filled 15 out of 15 spots

https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Program-Result-2015-2019.pdf

Average programs do not go unfilled multiple years in a row.

 

[Peterluger]

Downstate match
2016: only filled 10 out of 16 spots (Advanced and Categorical)
2017: only filled 4 out of 15 spots
2018: only filled 9 out of 15 spots
2019: Finally filled 15 out of 15 spots

https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Program-Result-2015-2019.pdf

Average programs do not go unfilled multiple years in a row.

Well, if they didn’t fill because their step cutoff is too high, it doesnt actually matter or change the fact it’s better than most programs. And either way it’s not in the Bronx. So it won a long time ago by default. Sorry.

 

[NVO]

So people with 210's have 0 shot of getting an interview at Westchester? I know Anesthesiology became more competitive recently, but I doubt that is true. Not saying the residency training is bad, but just from competitiveness standpoint, I don't think westchester is a competitive program. I remember Westchester mostly filled with SGU and IMG, and I personally know someone with step 1 around 210 that interviewed at Westchester a few years back. So at least that year, the cut off clearly wasn't much higher than 210.

I'm a OMS4 (no red flags) with >230 and I didnt get an interview at Westchester. My SO received an interview there (another specialty) and we both contacted our programs and it still didn't yield an interview for me lol. I think NY specifically is less DO friendly and more IMG friendly (being familiar with SGU especially)

 

[nimbus]

Downstate match
2016: only filled 10 out of 16 spots (Advanced and Categorical)
2017: only filled 4 out of 15 spots
2018: only filled 9 out of 15 spots
2019: Finally filled 15 out of 15 spots

https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Program-Result-2015-2019.pdf

Average programs do not go unfilled multiple years in a row.

I work in a large PP where all new hires rotate through our multiple sites so I get to see a lot of new grads. My n=1 with Downstate grad. This person is indistinguishable from graduates of top programs(MGH, Stanford, UCSF, etc) and we’ve had many lesser doctors from bigger named programs. Extremely competent, well trained and unflappable.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Montefiore is in the Bronx. Enough said. And Downstate is definitely better than your average anesthesia program, this has been known for several decades now

So what you're saying is that Montefiore is in a location that has the sickest patients who are also the poorest in NYC and thus have much sicker pathology? I'm a current resident and Montefiore and am extremely happy with ending up here. Comparatively, we do every single transplant (heart/lungs/liver/etc..) and have every single fellowship represented. Looking at Downstate, all I see is a critical care fellowship and a cardiac and neurosurgery rotation that they have to send their residents to other hospitals to complete.... Enough said.

Downstate match
2016: only filled 10 out of 16 spots (Advanced and Categorical)
2017: only filled 4 out of 15 spots
2018: only filled 9 out of 15 spots
2019: Finally filled 15 out of 15 spots

https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Program-Result-2015-2019.pdf

Average programs do not go unfilled multiple years in a row.

agreed. Numbers dont lie.

EDIT: oh I also forgot that we get free health insurance from Monte, and get paid $10,000 more annually.

 

[IMGASMD]

So what you're saying is that Montefiore is in a location that has the sickest patients who are also the poorest in NYC and thus have much sicker pathology? I'm a current resident and Montefiore and am extremely happy with ending up here. Comparatively, we do every single transplant (heart/lungs/liver/etc..) and have every single fellowship represented. Looking at Downstate, all I see is a critical care fellowship and a cardiac and neurosurgery rotation that they have to send their residents to other hospitals to complete.... Enough said.



agreed. Numbers dont lie.

EDIT: oh I also forgot that we get free health insurance from Monte, and get paid $10,000 more annually.

I thought Westchester boast the highest mixed case index in the region. Just want to throw that in this pissing contest....

 

[Peterluger]

I thought Westchester boast the highest mixed case index in the region. Just want to throw that in this pissing contest....

Yup and Westchester isnt in the Bronx

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Yup and Westchester isnt in the Bronx

No reply to my counterargument?

 

[Lashler9054]

No reply to my counterargument?

Monte...does not get paid $10k more. Salaries are comparable if you look on their websites. Also, shouldn’t matter what hospital you get exposure as long as you get exposure, right?

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Monte...does not get paid $10k more. Salaries are comparable if you look on their websites. Also, shouldn’t matter what hospital you get exposure as long as you get exposure, right?

Looking at the SUNY downstate website, PGY-1 salary is 55K. Monte's PGY-1 salary is 68K. Our website is not updated, but any applicant can call the GME office or the residency office for an updated salary information request if they want to verify it. So you're right, its not $10k more. Its $13K more.

Regarding exposure, you can argue it either way, but the comment about picking a place that has all fellowships represented stands. The point being made was that if it was such a large/diverse hospital system, they wouldnt need to send their residents out to get experience elsewhere.

 

[Lashler9054]

Looking at the SUNY downstate website, PGY-1 salary is 55K. Monte's PGY-1 salary is 68K. Our website is not updated, but any applicant can call the GME office or the residency office for an updated salary information request if they want to verify it. So you're right, its not $10k more. Its $13K more.

Regarding exposure, you can argue it either way, but the comment about picking a place that has all fellowships represented stands. The point being made was that if it was such a large/diverse hospital system, they wouldnt need to send their residents out to get experience elsewhere.

Go here. This is what you guys (Monte) are posting on website. Department of Anesthesiology – Professional Training Programs – Message from the Chief Residents - New York City – Montefiore Medical Center

Needs to be updated,sure, but pgy1 is $55k and change. Listen, if you get your training, you get your training. Drawback to having more fellowships is that you have fellows getting in the way of your training. You’re not going to be echo certified doing Cardiothoracic anesthesia in a program with or without fellows. You’ll still pursue a fellowship anyway.

 

[Peterluger]

To Gandalf: Downstate Pgy 1 salary is $64k Per the website. You’re looking at it incorrectly. Pgy 1 base is the state base, what’s missing from the base is the location differentials. Also this is outdated, its from 2018-2019, it goes up 2% every year so its closer to $65k now, will be $66k starting this July. Dont spread fake news

https://www.downstate.edu/gme/documents/2018-2019_payscales.pdf

 

[Status Sciaticus]

To Gandalf: Downstate Pgy 1 salary is $64k Per the website. You’re looking at it incorrectly. Pgy 1 base is the state base, what’s missing from the base is the location differentials. Also this is outdated, its from 2018-2019, it goes up 2% every year so its closer to $65k now, will be $66k starting this July. Dont spread fake news

https://www.downstate.edu/gme/documents/2018-2019_payscales.pdf

calm down buddy, I looked at the link to the 2017-2018 payscales that was posted on the residency website.

Go here. This is what you guys (Monte) are posting on website. Department of Anesthesiology – Professional Training Programs – Message from the Chief Residents - New York City – Montefiore Medical Center
See below.

Needs to be updated,sure, but pgy1 is $55k and change. Listen, if you get your training, you get your training. Drawback to having more fellowships is that you have fellows getting in the way of your training. You’re not going to be echo certified doing Cardiothoracic anesthesia in a program with or without fellows. You’ll still pursue a fellowship anyway.

See below. As I mentioned, its not updated on the website. Bonus of having the actual fellowship is you have CT attendings who can help get you interviews. Programs also prefer to take their own, which you cant do if you dont have a program to begin with. Theres no point to belabor this further since its a difference of opinion. People will go where they please.