PICU 2021-2022 Fellowship Interview Thread

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Can you guys provide some insight on the factors you're considering while putting together a match list? With Zoom not providing a realistic feeling of what the program feels like, I'm having a hard time figuring out the list
1. Unit size. Coverage during nights as well
2. Number of fellows
3. In house cardiac ICU vs doing CTICU/CICU elsewhere
4. Mixed versus closed unit.
5. How NPs and PAs function in the unit. Do they act like attendings, fellows, or residents. What procedures they do etc.
6. location
7. number of attendings
8. if high flow, infusions, vent/trach kids are done inpatient vs ICU.

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I'm guessing I might have already missed the ranking deadline but as some who is celebrating my 10 year anniversary of fellowship match day in a few days, on the other side, I think there are some considerations that are missed in the above factors to consider.


The biggest factor should be places that can take your interests and demonstrate a way for you to gain expertise and develop a niche that's going to get you hired as a new attending in 3 years. Division Chiefs when they hire you want to know how you're going to secure extramural funding in 2-3 years as a new attending to get you promoted several years after that. The best fellowship programs will get you a leg up on that process. Yes the academic product is a checkbox to board certification but it's also there, at least in the current environment, as a runway for you navigate towards liftoff of a productive career. I'm in private practice, but even then, we have administrative contributions we have to make to the hospital and when we hired in the past, fellowship candidates with nothing clear to offer our group were readily passed over for other candidates. Every fellowship program is going to teach you how to put in lines, run a code, manage the breadth of critical illness and injury in children, that's the assumption that board certification garners you. The key then is how do the programs help you distinguish you from others.

If you have a mix of unit sizes, then consider it a factor, but that is something that I don't really feel contributes much. Every place I interviewed at was 26 beds or more, most closer to 35+. I dont' think there's that much difference between 30 beds and 40 beds, since most places that large are going to split the coverage with 2 teams.

I think the technology dependent unit question is reasonable, as that can really throw off acuity levels and be real annoying admitting your umpteenth stable, just needing extra O2 trach/vent admit for the day. Not that there isn't learning to be had with these kids, but if the pulmonologists have a place to park them elsewhere, that can have a dramatic impact on your experience.

While the classic fellowship schedule has been to front load the first year with clinical time, I do think there are reasons why one might weigh a more balanced schedule in which clinical time is relatively constant across the three years as a positive element. First, attendinghood is very much a constant grind rather than having big chunks of time dedicated to research/administrative tasks (minus those people in the lab hired specifically for their research output). Might as well replicate that from the beginning. Second, it's a super common refrain on interviews from the 3rd year fellows that they often found themselves scrambling to regain comfort clinically as they moved toward the back half of their third years and prepped to become attendings. A balanced schedule keeps those clinical skills sharp. Third, with all the talk of burnout and mental health in CCM providers I think there are arguments to be made that a balanced schedule reduces burnout potential compared to 10 months of q4 call in the traditional first year. I suppose others might counter the opposite to be true, and that easy years 2&3 may "cure" that first year burnout but I'm not sure how that translates into being an attending. Fourth, if you are in an interesting city, have a family, or otherwise want to have a social life, the balanced schedule is more conducive to that. I was super single upon starting fellowship and I don't think I could have any sort of social life in a traditional model, certainly not to the degree I did in my first year. I was in a very "fun" city and maybe in a different location, it wouldn't have mattered as much, but my top 3 choices were similarly large cities so it's hard to claim that personally, but I recognize that people are looking at all sorts of varied locations.

As for NP/PA's, a good fellowship program will clearly delineate the responsibilities. They should get to do procedures, but the understanding will be that first year fellows early on get first crack to build up experience. Remember residents want procedures too and so in the best set of circumstances, not all the procedures fall to the fellows.

Hope this is useful information from someone on the far end of this point.
 
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The biggest factor should be places that can take your interests and demonstrate a way for you to gain expertise and develop a niche that's going to get you hired as a new attending in 3 years. Division Chiefs when they hire you want to know how you're going to secure extramural funding in 2-3 years as a new attending to get you promoted several years after that. The best fellowship programs will get you a leg up on that process. Yes the academic product is a checkbox to board certification but it's also there, at least in the current environment, as a runway for you navigate towards liftoff of a productive career. I'm in private practice, but even then, we have administrative contributions we have to make to the hospital and when we hired in the past, fellowship candidates with nothing clear to offer our group were readily passed over for other candidates. Every fellowship program is going to teach you how to put in lines, run a code, manage the breadth of critical illness and injury in children, that's the assumption that board certification garners you. The key then is how do the programs help you distinguish you from others.
I can't tell you how much this is lost on people. I see fellows fart around on projects that go nowhere and attendings who just watch the fellows fail miserably in this regard and it's so painful to watch. But the reality is that PICU is not really very academic (and I mean that in the broadest of senses). It's very much like ER in that regard. But it is exactly as you state, where third year comes around and they have no work product to show for it. The hiring Division Chief is like "Oh you can put in lines. Cool, I once trained a monkey to put in a CVL. What is your actual unique skillset?". In general though, I blame the ABP. They literally have no f-cking clue what they are doing when it comes to niche and career development and would prefer the checkbox method as you say. I saw some paper recently where they examined number of publications to job and academic rank. Of course, the more publications, the better the job chances and the better the rank, but there was some statistic where like 1/4 to 1/3 of new attendings had 1 or 0 publications upon hiring. I thought that was crazy and a clear failure of the programs they came from. Realizing that some of this is on the responsibility of the learner, there mentors are responsible too. But if you have an attending was has no productivity, how can you expect them to mentor anyone and have them be successful? You can't. I saw a physician-scientist fellow, who wasn't being very productive (COVID did screw up the lab) but they stated they wanted to pursue science. Their mentor was perfectly content to let them fail on their terrible idea of a project that would net nothing. I personally felt bad for this fellow and literally gave them all the data I had on a project I was going to publish and let them have it so they could be the author. It was the only paper they published during fellowship. I'm not saying this to pat my back, but like WTAF. How is letting a learner flounder into the abyss beneficial to anyone?! Anyway, sorry for the diatribe. This a personal pet peeve of mine and I haven't seen it improve in the 10+ years I've been in this field.
 
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I’m sure everyone’s trauma is lingering on this crazy day… congrats to all that matched and condolences to those that didn’t match this cycle—your dreams are not over I promise you.

I interviewed at 6 programs, ranked 5 of them (one just had too many red flags for me), and ended up matching at my #4!

Anyone else care to share how it went for them?
 
My friend ranked 15 and matched number 14. I’ve never heard of anyone falling that far down their list. Statistically not sure how that happens.
 
My friend ranked 15 and matched number 14. I’ve never heard of anyone falling that far down their list. Statistically not sure how that happens.
This is somewhat the result of people applying broadly and not having to travel (as well as generally more applicants as time has gone on). The stronger candidates can therefore interview everywhere and get ranked highly everywhere as opposed to in pre-COVID era, the cost of traveling was a barrier and only people who were serious to attend a program actually interviewed.

Incidentally, we went as low as rank spot 24, one of the lowest years for us, for the same reason. The no travel interviews, in my opinion, have kinda screwed up the screening process and made the ranking listing more hodge podge.

But people like not traveling and it’s a cost saving for everyone, so now we all get to reap the consequences going forward.
 
This is somewhat the result of people applying broadly and not having to travel (as well as generally more applicants as time has gone on). The stronger candidates can therefore interview everywhere and get ranked highly everywhere as opposed to in pre-COVID era, the cost of traveling was a barrier and only people who were serious to attend a program actually interviewed.

Incidentally, we went as low as rank spot 24, one of the lowest years for us, for the same reason. The no travel interviews, in my opinion, have kinda screwed up the screening process and made the ranking listing more hodge podge.

But people like not traveling and it’s a cost saving for everyone, so now we all get to reap the consequences going forward.
I'm in strong support of application caps (for both residency and fellowship applications) so if those were implemented, it would solve a bunch of these issues.
 
I'm in strong support of application caps (for both residency and fellowship applications) so if those were implemented, it would solve a bunch of these issues.
I think that is reasonable. The other thing I’ve heard is that first interview is virtual but the second interview is in person (I’ve heard it called “a second look”) from which that pool is where the rank list comes from. Two interviews seems kinda pointless and painful if you ask me. But I’m not involved in any of that decision making and somehow, knowing that the number of applicants are greater than the number of spots, I would presume that programs will do as little as possible.
 
I'm in strong support of application caps (for both residency and fellowship applications) so if those were implemented, it would solve a bunch of these issues.
Or at least an official signal system implemented by ERAS/NRMP? i.e. give each applicant only 3 official “top choice” signals and only 7 official “high interest” signals but they can still apply anywhere else.
Minimizes low-yield interviews.
 
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