Pissed at attending

[Ice-1]

My attending in cardiology has been giving me assignments that I am getting pissed off at. He has been, on whim, asking me to look up and report on all kinds of non-medical things- such as today we had a patient who was a retired meat packer, so attending wants me to look up and report on Upton Sinclair's novel The Jungle (which was a critical expose of that business & quite radical for its time). Is this a medical rotation or a high school book review? Also today he wanted me to look up the derivation of the word "school marm" because we had a patient that had been a teacher. I finally told him that I wouldn't do it. I am happy to look up and report on anything medical that he can come up with, but just am not going to make additional time to look up extraneous matter. Anyone else had a similar experience?

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[theduke]

Oh yeah. Look at the attending as your boss. My boss at GE asks me do all kinds of ridiculous stuff because he knows I have to report to him. In the end, he thinks it may useful to you. So just suck it up and hopefully your future attendings will be more practical

 

[pikachu]

Refusing to do this guy's assignments is a bad plan. Unless you're trying to get a lousy evaluation, in which case it's an excellent way to achieve this goal. I think you're basically stuck with looking up these random non-medical things. It sounds like the attending may be trying to get you to see the "human" side of these patients, albeit in a somewhat odd way. You might as well just relax and God forbid, you might learn something outside of medicine. If you try to prove something to this attending by saying you "won't" do an assignment, you will most likely find that it is you who will be the loser.

 

[punjabiMD]

the guy sounds like a shmuck (sp?), but I would still do what he says...remember... if you get a bad clerkship grade you can always explain why/what happened to an interviewer, but you have to get that interview first! (i.e. do what it takes to get the good grade).

try being more interactive and engage the guy in discussions pertaining to IM/cardiology...

make sure that you give honest feedback to the clerkship director.... (unless it happens to be your attending!)

 

[VentdependenT]

He has no friends so this is his attempt at social interaction.

The Jungle is supposed to be a great book but rather depressing. I say you read it and schedule a visit to an abattoirs to really show your interest.

Maybe he'll slip on a pile of offal.

Venty

 

[no-see-um]

Yeh. At least he has you reading good books. I would love it if I were following a doctor around and he was like, "Go to the library and read "Heart of Darkness" by Joseph Conrad".

 

[phoenixsupra]

I think I'd like to have that attending. He sounds interesting. And yes it's obvious he see's the human side of medicine as a somewhat neglected part of our education. It is.

In any case you don't agree. That's fine. Here's my take on how you should play it if you want a good grade. I see the fact that you have already objected as a potentially positive thing. Go back to him and tell him you've been doing a lot of soul searching about what he might be trying to do. Present it like some sort of great epiphany that you now see the human side as something of great importance. Tell him you now see you had been unconsciously taking for granted in your eagerness to learn the stuff of medicine. etc etc. Through in some genuine enthusiasm and wonder. Y'know do some method acting. I gaurentee you'll get a great evaluation. People much prefer "making a convert/difference" to preaching at the choir. Work this to your advantage.

Any other way to play this and what you'll get is a crappy grade and a well crafted evaluation calculated to draw some blood and stick in your craw. Let the english lit. rotation begin.

 

[tigershark]

Gee, it would take you all of 10 seconds to google this crap, why not just do it and keep your opinion to yourself. You've likely hurt your grade already with your arrogant attitude.

It sounds like the guy is just trying to foster intellectual curiosity and make rounds interesting. That, or he is testing your humility, either way you appear to have failed.

 

[no-see-um]

I have a book for you, Ice-1. Read "The Art of Medicine" By Kevin Soden, M.D.

You are but an archetype of the student who comes in with a bit of arrogance; stand-offish to the art behind the medicine. You're in this book! It probably even has the same dialogue between you and your attending. It would help answer your question better than I can, and it does your character Justice.

 

[kinetic]

Here's the plan:

Start making up ****. Seriously. Not all at once. Like, just slip in some B.S. one day and see if it flies. If it does, go nuts and the rest of the rotation will be awesome as everyone tries not to crack up. If he calls you on your B.S. the first time, just say, "Oh, I'm sorry, I must have made a mistake. I apologize."

 

[no-see-um]

Here's the plan:

Start making up ****. Seriously. Not all at once. Like, just slip in some B.S. one day and see if it flies. If it does, go nuts and the rest of the rotation will be awesome as everyone tries not to crack up. If he calls you on your B.S. the first time, just say, "Oh, I'm sorry, I must have made a mistake. I apologize."

I call B.S. on that, Kinetic. BRING IT!

 

[kinetic]

Oh, I'm sorry, I must have made a mistake. I apologize.

 

[no-see-um]

Oh, I'm sorry, I must have made a mistake. I apologize.

What a fine young man. Glad to have him at my hospital!

 

[Heeed!]

Here's the plan:

Start making up ****. Seriously. Not all at once. Like, just slip in some B.S. one day and see if it flies. If it does, go nuts and the rest of the rotation will be awesome as everyone tries not to crack up. If he calls you on your B.S. the first time, just say, "Oh, I'm sorry, I must have made a mistake. I apologize."

LMAO!

 

[DOtobe]

What's the big deal? It's not that hard to look up "school marm." With the internet you can look up just about anything in seconds! I once had to look up who invented the electric chair, and I didn't think it was a big deal. Kind of odd, but not a big deal.

It could be worse - he could make you read Harrison's from cover to cover.

 

[pimpdogg]

It seems odd to me that every thread that a student who expresses any sort of annoyance or anger towards particular aspects of their rotation is immediately berated by a bunch of other posters. It happens all of the time. Apparently people aren't allowed to vent. Calling this person "arrogant" or telling them how they totally f'd up their grade isn't really helping.

Also, what this attending is doing is absolutely ridiculous regardless of how easy it might be. I applaud you for telling him you won't don't it. Screw a perfect eval I'd rather have respect for myself any day. If this doc is actually interested in this crap he should look it up himself. Or start BS'ing, I love that idea.

 

[jamie]

that does suck. i got annoyed on my medicine rotation when there weren't many patients, and i was the one who "got" to copy all of the articles for our lectures -- and that was at least related to medicine. i understand your frustration -- there are better ways for you to spend your time (ie, reading about cardiology). whatever you do, hopefully you have some friends or other classmates to vent to. we all vent, arrogant or not. sometimes, it just sucks to be the peon med student on the team.

 

[sacrament]

It seems odd to me that every thread that a student who expresses any sort of annoyance or anger towards particular aspects of their rotation is immediately berated by a bunch of other posters.

What's really funny is a couple of these people aren't even med students yet.

Personally, if this was my attending I'd be harboring fantasies of punching him in the nose.

 

[mfrederi]

While certainly Sinclair's work changed the climate of food preparation in the US (Pure Food and Drug Act of ?1907?) it was also a commentary on class warfare and "wage" slavery during the turn of the century. Sinclair was a communist who actually established a socialist commune with the proceeds from his novel. Just thought I would give you the DL on The Jungle. Good luck, hope this will help you hear an S4

 

[Legion560]

Commonsense-wise you should probably scut it out until the end of the rotation and pray that you never see this guy again. You should probably ask him why he is making you do all this crap; maybe there is some fundamental link to cardiology in there somewhere. The suggestion that the OP is an arrogant student is way off base. If you had to wake up every morning, work 12 hours a day, study for your shelf and have a million things going on at once, having to do this kind of weird "homework" assignment is a waste of resources. Once or twice is okay if the attending asks you to look something up, but it becomes a problem if these requests are made every day. Not to mention that we are PAYING to be at the hospital.

Legion560

 

[ItsGavinC]

What's really funny is a couple of these people aren't even med students yet.

Personally, if this was my attending I'd be harboring fantasies of punching him in the nose.

Harboring or acting on?

 

[phoenixsupra]

Commonsense-wise you should probably scut it out until the end of the rotation and pray that you never see this guy again. You should probably ask him why he is making you do all this crap; maybe there is some fundamental link to cardiology in there somewhere. The suggestion that the OP is an arrogant student is way off base. If you had to wake up every morning, work 12 hours a day, study for your shelf and have a million things going on at once, having to do this kind of weird "homework" assignment is a waste of resources. Once or twice is okay if the attending asks you to look something up, but it becomes a problem if these requests are made every day. Not to mention that we are PAYING to be at the hospital.

Legion560

Yeah, Googling for the origion of the term "school marm" is a HUGE waste of resourses.

 

[TJ1680]

You were absolutely right to tell him you weren't going to do it. You're not paying thousands of dollars in tuition to spend time doing stuff that's not going to contribute to your education. And don't listen to those who say you should just suck it up and make your attending happy. Life is to short to spend time worrying about other people's opinion of you. If you learn a lot but get a poor eval, you've done far better than if you learn less but get a good eval. Besides, people will ultimately respect you more for standing up for yourself than for sucking up to everyone. Do things that will contribue to your learning; you'll be happier and, of course, more knowledgeable than if you do things for no other reason than to please your superiors.

 

[phoenixsupra]

Besides, people will ultimately respect you more for standing up for yourself than for sucking up to everyone.

That's often true in general. But NOT in medicine. I'd advise the OP to remember that old Aesops fable about the weed and the oak tree. Hold on to your principles for when you're no longer a pawn. Good luck

 

[TJ1680]

That's often true in general. But NOT in medicine. I'd advise the OP to remember that old Aesops fable about the weed and the oak tree. Hold on to your principles for when you're no longer a pawn. Good luck

I'd say it's especially true in medicine. If you're a "pawn," principles are all you have. That's when you need to hold on to them more than ever.

 

[phoenixsupra]

If you're a "pawn," principles are all you have. That's when you need to hold on to them more than ever.

You see, I agree with that part. But not with "standing up to" your attending. Been there, done that. It's a REALLY bad idea. Pick your battles and apply your principal wherever possible. Just don't waste yourself butting your head against a very solid brick wall indeed. It is because of the importance of principal that I advise caution interaction with superiors.

But really I have to tell you rebelling against a quick search for the origin of the term "school marm" is not a battle I would pick or even agree with for that matter. If you understand what I'm saying and still disagree, that's fine with me. Just be carefull. Discord with seniors can knock the wind out of you. You'll need your energy if you want to apply your principles.

 

[Samoa]

That's often true in general. But NOT in medicine. I'd advise the OP to remember that old Aesops fable about the weed and the oak tree. Hold on to your principles for when you're no longer a pawn. Good luck

Which fable is it? This is the most complete list I could find, but it's not here. Maybe it has another name?

Aesop's Fables

 

[Entei]

Which fable is it? This is the most complete list I could find, but it's not here. Maybe it has another name?

Aesop's Fables

It's listed there as The Tree and the Reed.

"Well, little one," said a Tree to a Reed that was growing at its foot, "why do you not plant your feet deeply in the ground, and raise your head boldly in the air as I do?"

"I am contented with my lot," said the Reed. "I may not be so grand, but I think I am safer."

"Safe!" sneered the Tree. "Who shall pluck me up by the roots or bow my head to the ground?" But it soon had to repent of its boasting, for a hurricane arose which tore it up from its roots, and cast it a useless log on the ground, while the little Reed, bending to the force of the wind, soon stood upright again when the storm had passed over.

Obscurity often brings safety.

 

[kinetic]

...And the little reed laughed until someone walked past and took a monster diarrhea all over it.

Moral: Those who play it safe eat ****.

 

[phoenixsupra]

...And the little reed laughed until someone walked past and took a monster diarrhea all over it.

Moral: Those who play it safe eat ****.

Excellent fable kinetic Not the one I was thinking of though.

Which fable is it? This is the most complete list I could find, but it's not here. Maybe it has another name?

Aesop's Fables

I have them all at home. I'll look it up and let you know.

 

[phoenixsupra]

It's "the oak and the reeds"

 

[Ice-1]

Happy holidays to all of you naysayers and ill wishers out there! Just finished the rotation and I know this will come as a big disappointment but I was not struck dead by lightning for the blasphemy of daring to tell an attending "no" to an inane assignment. What happened was that I never got another time waster and he stuck to giving me medical assignments only. I am now holding the written and signed evaluation of that attending who gave me uniformly excellent scores and comments. He even told me that it was refreshing to have someone who knew how and where to draw the boundaries. You don't have to be a spineless snivelling sychophant to do well in a rotation. Now come on all you that begrudge this great result, flame away, take your best shot 'cause I'm outta here with the goods!

 

[phoenixsupra]

Happy holidays to all of you naysayers and ill wishers out there! Just finished the rotation and I know this will come as a big disappointment but I was not struck dead by lightning for the blasphemy of daring to tell an attending "no" to an inane assignment. What happened was that I never got another time waster and he stuck to giving me medical assignments only. I am now holding the written and signed evaluation of that attending who gave me uniformly excellent scores and comments. He even told me that it was refreshing to have someone who knew how and where to draw the boundaries. You don't have to be a spineless snivelling sychophant to do well in a rotation. Now come on all you that begrudge this great result, flame away, take your best shot 'cause I'm outta here with the goods!

Congratulations. That attending sounds awesome BTW. Thanks for following up with the conclusion. Good luck on your next rotation.

 

[tega]

Happy holidays to all of you naysayers and ill wishers out there! Just finished the rotation and I know this will come as a big disappointment but I was not struck dead by lightning for the blasphemy of daring to tell an attending "no" to an inane assignment. What happened was that I never got another time waster and he stuck to giving me medical assignments only. I am now holding the written and signed evaluation of that attending who gave me uniformly excellent scores and comments. He even told me that it was refreshing to have someone who knew how and where to draw the boundaries. You don't have to be a spineless snivelling sychophant to do well in a rotation. Now come on all you that begrudge this great result, flame away, take your best shot 'cause I'm outta here with the goods!

hmm......

 

[neutropeniaboy]

You were absolutely right to tell him you weren't going to do it. You're not paying thousands of dollars in tuition to spend time doing stuff that's not going to contribute to your education.

Be careful: Daniel didn't think Mr. Miyagi wasn't teaching him karate when he made him sand the floor...

 

[phoenixsupra]

Be careful: Daniel didn't think Mr. Miyagi wasn't teaching him karate when he made him sand the floor...

 

[kinetic]

Be careful: Daniel didn't think Mr. Miyagi wasn't teaching him karate when he made him sand the floor...

Note: Mr. Miyagi was conveying some pretty deep knowledge of ass-kicking, but it didn't hurt that his home was getting improved on the cheap, either.

 

[deleted4401]

Definitely not saying the OP was arrogant or wrong ... He's totally in the right, and probably a nice person, but ...

... I'd have been happy as a pig in sh-t if I'd gotten one cool assignment like that during my third year. During the beginning of my 4th year, in between seeing patients, one of the attendings would pimp us about Greek mythology (b/c of the Olympics being in Greece), and it was fantastic. I even remembered some stuff from undergrad. I know I'm supposed to be learning medicine, but if someone would give me 5 minutes of liberal arts a day, I think my day (and life) would be, on the average, a whole lot better.

In fact, one day, maybe I'll be that 'dingus attending' one day, hehe!

Simul

 

[bigfrank]

My attending in cardiology has been giving me assignments that I am getting pissed off at. He has been, on whim, asking me to look up and report on all kinds of non-medical things- such as today we had a patient who was a retired meat packer, so attending wants me to look up and report on Upton Sinclair's novel The Jungle (which was a critical expose of that business & quite radical for its time). Is this a medical rotation or a high school book review? Also today he wanted me to look up the derivation of the word "school marm" because we had a patient that had been a teacher. I finally told him that I wouldn't do it. I am happy to look up and report on anything medical that he can come up with, but just am not going to make additional time to look up extraneous matter. Anyone else had a similar experience?

I might say, "Attending, I don't see how reading The Jungle will enhance either my education or the patient's, that is, unless he is missing a few fingers."

 

[FutureNobel]

OP, don't whine, just do it.

 

[kcrd]

... I'd have been happy as a pig in sh-t if I'd gotten one cool assignment like that during my third year. During the beginning of my 4th year, in between seeing patients, one of the attendings would pimp us about Greek mythology (b/c of the Olympics being in Greece), and it was fantastic. I even remembered some stuff from undergrad. I know I'm supposed to be learning medicine, but if someone would give me 5 minutes of liberal arts a day, I think my day (and life) would be, on the average, a whole lot better.

I agree with Simul. My favorite experience 4th year so far was during an ID elective where on the last day, all of the students had to present Haiku's about something we learned on the rotation. It's nice to use a different part of your brain every once in a while.

 

[no-see-um]

To the Original poster, Ice-1, let me be frank with you... I prefer Ice-9. Now go read "Cat's Cradle" by Kurt Vonnegut. Go on, getoutahere!

 

[no-see-um]

...And the little reed laughed until someone walked past and took a monster diarrhea all over it.

Moral: Those who play it safe eat ****.

Oh man! That's one of the funniest posts I've ever read!...

 

[azzarah]

This is probably what I would do too. I haven't started rotations yet though.

I think I'd like to have that attending. He sounds interesting. And yes it's obvious he see's the human side of medicine as a somewhat neglected part of our education. It is.

In any case you don't agree. That's fine. Here's my take on how you should play it if you want a good grade. I see the fact that you have already objected as a potentially positive thing. Go back to him and tell him you've been doing a lot of soul searching about what he might be trying to do. Present it like some sort of great epiphany that you now see the human side as something of great importance. Tell him you now see you had been unconsciously taking for granted in your eagerness to learn the stuff of medicine. etc etc. Through in some genuine enthusiasm and wonder. Y'know do some method acting. I gaurentee you'll get a great evaluation. People much prefer "making a convert/difference" to preaching at the choir. Work this to your advantage.

Any other way to play this and what you'll get is a crappy grade and a well crafted evaluation calculated to draw some blood and stick in your craw. Let the english lit. rotation begin.

 

[MD'05]

F*ck it. Medicine is like the military. Just go with the flow. For some reason this jackass thinks that knowing the definition of school marm is valuable. I had an attending that would quiz us on the portraits in the hospital. I never knew who the f*ck those old geezers were. But actually I am a trivia buff so I would go look up the info. Helps when I am playing some g*d awful game like Cranium or Trivial Pursuit with friends and the category is medicine or science.

 

[sjkpark]

My attending in cardiology has been giving me assignments that I am getting pissed off at. He has been, on whim, asking me to look up and report on all kinds of non-medical things- such as today we had a patient who was a retired meat packer, so attending wants me to look up and report on Upton Sinclair's novel The Jungle (which was a critical expose of that business & quite radical for its time). Is this a medical rotation or a high school book review? Also today he wanted me to look up the derivation of the word "school marm" because we had a patient that had been a teacher. I finally told him that I wouldn't do it. I am happy to look up and report on anything medical that he can come up with, but just am not going to make additional time to look up extraneous matter. Anyone else had a similar experience?

I had a consultant who told me to find out Lanach's full name (amongst others). C'mon - loosen up!