pitt vs mich

[tonyjerry]

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i know, sorry about posting another one of these threads but i really need some advice. im in at pitt and am on the waitlist at michigan and am thinking about giving them a letter of intent honestly just because its been my dream school for so long and i want to be able to go to michigan football games. ive tried to look into the curriculum and training as much as possible but nothing really sticks out as seperating the two. i did look at last years match lists and was surprised that michigans wasnt as impressive as i would have thought for a top 10 school. if anyone has any information they know of that could help out please respond. thanks in advance.

 

[there_is_no]

Originally posted by tonyjerry
honestly just because its been my dream school for so long and i want to be able to go to michigan football games.

i did look at last years match lists and was surprised that michigans wasnt as impressive as i would have thought for a top 10 school.

this is going to sound inanely trite, but you have to go where your heart is. honestly, i visited michigan and i really think it was an amazing school. i think if you give up now, you'll always be wondering if there wasn't more that you could do. and you'll be at pitt (another good medical school) thinking that you should have done more. giving it your best shot, you'll at least know that there wasn't more that you could have done.

i don't know about football games being the best reason to attend medical school, but then again my college had football that was not as good as my high school's team. but i would write that letter of intent. (my interviewer says these are critical.) and i would write out all the reasons why you think michigan is fabulous. from my interview notes, here are a few reasons i thought of:

1) amazing clinical training - great hospital, serving as a tertiary care center for the surrounding area which includes the big city of detroit. translation - very interesting complex cases. also the clinical training is diverse with loads of specialties in all sorts of departments.

2) faculty and teachers really care - there is this story of a second year who had left his or her backpack in one of the lecture halls, and that person accidently bumped into the professor who was giving the next day's lecture, practicing his lecture. that shows a strong committment to teaching (rather than let me get this over with and back to my research)

3) you can think of probably a whole host of others, but i would put in that you even want to go there to watch the football games, but i'd make this ancillary.

by the way, i wouldn't do write this word for word, just in case someone in the adcom reads posts. i dunno, does anybody know if any school actually does?

as far as the match list not being wonderful... not everyone goes to michigan because it's ranked high. a lot of people go there because it's a wonderful school and it happens to be close to home. these people might choose to stick around close to home. plus many do primary care because it's such a good primary care school. so there's a lot of selection bias here. plus my understanding is that michigan is a school on the rise, not every residency necessarily has seen the light.

final note, there are probably a lot of people holding onto a michigan acceptance who aren't going to go there. (i'm guilty) but they will drop the acceptance soon or at may 15. so there should be movement, but you got to get yourself to the top of the pile! to help you out, i'm dropping my accept this monday.

hope this helps. good luck!

 

[Dwahl]

while I don't know much about pitt, I have been looking at umich pretty seriously.

The strength of Michigan's match lists worried me a bit (i've only seen the 2003 and 2004 lists). While I hope to do a residency on the east coast at a big hospital, Umich seemed to be matching a lot of people to the midwest. Like I said, this worried me. But then I got to thinking that around 50% of these medstudents are michigan residents. They have family or other ties to the midwest, and thus will probably have reasons to stay in the midwest and not head out to some of the big name hospitals on either coast.

I'm not sure if this fully accounts for the match, but it's at least a mitigating factor.

 

[elias514]

Believe it or not, the match lists at UMich for the past few years are consistently outstanding. The only specialties that are "weak" by top-ten standards are orthopaedic surgery and dermatology, meaning that Michigan grads rarely match at the very best programs in these specialties. However, UMich grads rock the Match in pretty much every other specialty. Do some research in the residency forums. You'll find that Ivy League medical schools do not have a monopoly on the very best residency programs.

 

[johnnyMD]

ann arbor is mad cool. pittsburgh is mad depressing and ghetto.

 

[Quickread]

ann arbor is mad boring and is completely geared to being a small undergrad town. so if you're into that scene, you'll like it, if not, it'll suck.

 

[linus]

ann arbor = umich

pittsburgh >>> upitt

 

[Xmulder]

Originally posted by there_is_no
this is going to sound inanely trite, but you have to go where your heart is. honestly, i visited michigan and i really think it was an amazing school. i think if you give up now, you'll always be wondering if there wasn't more that you could do. and you'll be at pitt (another good medical school) thinking that you should have done more. giving it your best shot, you'll at least know that there wasn't more that you could have done.

i don't know about football games being the best reason to attend medical school, but then again my college had football that was not as good as my high school's team. but i would write that letter of intent. (my interviewer says these are critical.) and i would write out all the reasons why you think michigan is fabulous. from my interview notes, here are a few reasons i thought of:

1) amazing clinical training - great hospital, serving as a tertiary care center for the surrounding area which includes the big city of detroit. translation - very interesting complex cases. also the clinical training is diverse with loads of specialties in all sorts of departments.

2) faculty and teachers really care - there is this story of a second year who had left his or her backpack in one of the lecture halls, and that person accidently bumped into the professor who was giving the next day's lecture, practicing his lecture. that shows a strong committment to teaching (rather than let me get this over with and back to my research)

3) you can think of probably a whole host of others, but i would put in that you even want to go there to watch the football games, but i'd make this ancillary.

by the way, i wouldn't do write this word for word, just in case someone in the adcom reads posts. i dunno, does anybody know if any school actually does?

as far as the match list not being wonderful... not everyone goes to michigan because it's ranked high. a lot of people go there because it's a wonderful school and it happens to be close to home. these people might choose to stick around close to home. plus many do primary care because it's such a good primary care school. so there's a lot of selection bias here. plus my understanding is that michigan is a school on the rise, not every residency necessarily has seen the light.

final note, there are probably a lot of people holding onto a michigan acceptance who aren't going to go there. (i'm guilty) but they will drop the acceptance soon or at may 15. so there should be movement, but you got to get yourself to the top of the pile! to help you out, i'm dropping my accept this monday.

hope this helps. good luck!

Why? Why do a lot of people with offers decide not to go to Michigan? What are the perceived downsides?

 

[hinduluv]

YO TONYJERRY this is venny. congratulations on your acceptances dawg. i am still waiting on IU.

 

[elias514]

The cool thing about Michigan is that if you graduate in the top 2/3 or so of your class, you're pretty much guaranteed a spot in a top residency program. Having gone through all the match lists for the past five years, I came up with the following figures:

2000: 95 outstanding matches (top residency programs in a variety of specialties)+ 10 matches in highly competitive specialties (not at "top" programs)--->105/152 rocked the match

2001: 88 outstanding matches + 15 matches in highly competitive specialties---> 103/152 rocked the match

2002: 104 outstanding matches + 16 matches in highly competitive specialties--->120/150 rocked the match

2003: 99 outstanding matches + 14 matches in highly competitive specialties---> 114/150 rocked the match

2004: 90 outstanding matches + 22 matches in highly competitive specialties---> 112/150 rocked the match

I performed searches in the residency forums to determine what the top-tier programs in each specialty were. Any program in the top 15-20 nationwide qualified as a top program.

Michigan has a kickass program. Period.

 

[tonyjerry]

haha, hey whats up venny. i guess you use this thing too. dont worry about iu, youre overqualified if anything, just wait. im withdrawing my acceptance so maybe thatll go to you. and thanks everyone else for the input. the more i think about it now i think the deciding factor is that even though i love ann arbor and bleed maize and blue, i dont think i want to be stuck in a college town during my 20s. ill probaly hold off on the loi.

 

[SunnyS81]

I was accepted to both schools.....here's my take....

1) If your dream is to be at Michigan, come here.
2) If you are ABSOLUTELY certain you want to go into a surgical speciality other than otolaryngology you might be better off at Pitt. It is a definite surgical powerhouse. I know we rock in ENT, but I have no clue about other areas......(neurosurgery is top 5 i know, ortho isn't our strong point......you can tell by the match list which specialties are stronger)
3) The facilities at Michigan are nicer......
4) They attract vastly different people I thought, where do you fit in?
5) I'm not worried about getting a residency in 4 years......not sure if I'm nieve....

 

[RoccoWJ]

I am in the exact same boat. I was accepted to Pitt and waitlisted at UMICH (i think i interviewed for a waitlist position in early feb). However, I think the justification of Mich over Pitt because you will get a residency is absurd. You will get a residency at any school you go to. However, a good residency is a different story. Pitt and UMICH will give you great residency opportunities. Also, Pitt has been an otolaryngology powerhouse as well (6 on the last match list, i believe). I don't think one will go wrong at either school. Also, the one dean at Michigan that gave a brief presentation, seemed to be in a huge hurry. Seemed like he was herding cattle into a large room and giving them a presentation. However, I did love Michigan, and Pitt and at this point plan on sitting back and seeing if a Michigan acceptance comes through. If so, I will probably go to Pitt anyway.





Rocco

 

[morecowbell]

Originally posted by SunnyS81
I was accepted to both schools.....here's my take....

1) If your dream is to be at Michigan, come here.
2) If you are ABSOLUTELY certain you want to go into a surgical speciality other than otolaryngology you might be better off at Pitt. It is a definite surgical powerhouse. I know we rock in ENT, but I have no clue about other areas......(neurosurgery is top 5 i know, ortho isn't our strong point......you can tell by the match list which specialties are stronger)
3) The facilities at Michigan are nicer......
4) They attract vastly different people I thought, where do you fit in?
5) I'm not worried about getting a residency in 4 years......not sure if I'm nieve....

good post..interesting to hear a michigan student call pitt a surgical powerhouse though, an m1 told me he went to a surgery interest group and the director said that JHU, Harvard, Duke, WashU and Michigan are regarded as the "surgical powerhouses." of course, your first point is all that REALLY matters.

 

[marakah2]

this is to reply to the person who said the dean at umich gave a hurried presentation ..... i would seriously not factor this too highly into my decision!! I had an interviewer at Pitt FORGET the interview then rush through it in 20min. but, i didn't factor that instance into my decision because who hasn't had a bad day?

you should decide where you want to go based on where you think you will do the best. which curriculum will be better suited to your learning style? this will matter more for your residency, not the name of the school.

 

[elias514]

Both schools are excellent. However, Michigan has a ridiculous number of top ten residency programs: anesthesiology, dermatology, general surgery, internal medicine (arguably so, but definitely a nationally prominent program), physical medicine and rehabilitation, neurosurgery, otolaryngology, ophthalmology, diagnostic radiology, and radiation oncology. In addition, its pathology, emergency medicine, plastic surgery, and pediatrics residency programs are regional powerhouses. But U Pitt has plenty of kickass residency programs too. So you'll learn excellent medicine in both places.

I guess it all boils down to location and whether you're strongly interested in securing a top residency in orthopaedics. If the latter applies to you, go to UPitt. I don't know what the deal is with the Michigan ortho department--the matches in ortho are consistently not on par with matches in other specialties, including other highly competitive ones (radiation oncology, ophthalmology, etc.). A lot of students go to Henry Ford and WIlliam Beaumont for ortho residency. I've read that Beaumont is an awesome place to train for ortho, because there are some big shot surgeons there, but I don't know anything about Henry Ford. More and more students are doing there residency at Henry Ford. What's the deal with this place? At any rate, UMich doesn't send its grads to elite programs in ortho typically.

Where do you want to spend the next four years of your life? Ann Arbor or Pittsburgh? I've never been to Pittsburgh, but I definitely loved Ann Arbor.


Go where you'll be happy. You can't go wrong here.

 

[linus]

this thread is pretty one-sided. anyone from Pitt want to say anything?

 

[RoccoWJ]

Originally posted by marakah2
this is to reply to the person who said the dean at umich gave a hurried presentation ..... i would seriously not factor this too highly into my decision!! I had an interviewer at Pitt FORGET the interview then rush through it in 20min. but, i didn't factor that instance into my decision because who hasn't had a bad day?

you should decide where you want to go based on where you think you will do the best. which curriculum will be better suited to your learning style? this will matter more for your residency, not the name of the school.

The interview is the impression that one gets of the school. If a dean is in a hurry and herds people through, it makes a negative impression. I am not saying that the entire school is like that, but despite having a bad or a good day, an individual (espically a physician!) doesn't need to be like that to people.

Doctors have bad days and need to learn to cope with them, without taking it out on patients.

Also, I did not say that any school was better than the other. I think both have awesome curricullums implemented and they both seem to be moving forward.

If you are shopping for an automobile and find two that are ideal, would you buy it from the salesman that sluffed you off or the one that showed a sincere interest?

I am honestly not trying to be petty in my tone or conversation.


Rocco

P.S. - I am "that person."

 

[indiamacbean]

I think that in this situation you should obviously go with your dream school. If its Michigan then there is absolutely no question you should write them a letter. that said, I go to Pitt and love it. the opportunities here are amazing and I know that I am going to get where I want to be. The truth of the matter is that every school has stronger and less strong training programs for after you get your MD but for the most part a good school is a good school. I think that you'll find that Michigan is a better know school in some areas and probably better known to the lay public if that matters to you. just go where it feels right and it'll work out in the end.

 

[SunnyS81]

As for surgery.....our general surgery and a few speciality areas are amongst the best if not the best (I heard this is the place to be for otolaryangology.....one med student said, "It would be in my best interest to stay here, but i need to leave Ann Arbor after 8 years here, so I'm going to UCSF."

Our ortho program is weak I think. From what I've observed and their decision in appointing a new department head. Everyone who applies in ortho here matches though just about. I guess that is ultimately what counts.

From what I've heard, Pitt is better than Harvard, WashU, JHU, etc at surgery. The first bypass surgery was done there (I think), and they have the best transplant department in the country hands down I think. If it means anything, one senior neurosugery faculty member here has a son who is about to graduated from Pitt (matched in ortho).

I would advocate we're more well rounded (our medicine departments are pretty amazing). Every school has its strengths and weakness, but once you get into the top 12 schools, just about all the departments are great. Since most people don't really know what they want to do going in, it is a great opportunity.

If you think you are destined to be a surgeon, don't tell the head of surgery that. He shot down two people because as he said, "You don't know until you do it. There will many who hate the idea that will love it and vice versa."

As a side note, it is my theory that students gravitate to deparments that are good at their respective schools because they can get good positions and they have good teachers.

As for Dr. Remicks' presentation being rushed, it doesn't mean anything. The only reason I have ever seen him is because I'm helping out with the second look weekend.....he knows my name and says hi every time I pass him if that means anything.....

Hope that helps........go where your heart is though......