Plagiarism at Harvard...

[BozoSparky]

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If you haven't heard about this story, check Google news or the Crimson.

I think it's sad. Seems like tremendous pressure can make some good people do bad things.

I read an article explaining it was almost as sad to see those who are rooting for her failure.

So, what do the premed SDNers think? Medicine is a high pressure world! I don't think our profession is immune to such events (cheating, falsified data, gunnerism, etc.)

Sparky

 

[Whootman]

I don't care what field you're in or how much pressure there is to succeed. Plagiarism isn't acceptable under any conditions, and I think anyone who is caught should be punished accordingly.

 

[TypeA]

I don't care what field you're in or how much pressure there is to succeed. Plagiarism isn't acceptable under any conditions, and I think anyone who is caught should be punished accordingly.

I am not convinced that it was intentional. She has a photgraphic memory and hadn't read the books in years. I agree that if she is found guilty of the charge that she should not get to slide by unpunished...severely. But, again...I am no convinced it was intentional. Plagarism is intentional. It will interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[FloridaMadame]

I don't care what field you're in or how much pressure there is to succeed. Plagiarism isn't acceptable under any conditions, and I think anyone who is caught should be punished accordingly.

Yes, plagiarism is awful and in a perfect world, no one would do it. This young Harvard student did commit a crime--a serious ethics violation for sure, but she did not murder anyone, she did not falsify data on a clinical trial that could cost someone their life, she did not walk out of an operating room in the middle of a surgery to go cash a check, etc., etc., etc. I do agree that she should receive a punishment that fits her crime, both from Harvard and from the publishing community, but I don't think that plagiarism should be up there with rape, dismemberment, and such. Remember, she was YOUNG when she did this and even though she should have known better, everyone (or at least most people) makes mistakes. No one is perfect. Just my liberal $.02.

 

[BozoSparky]

I am not convinced that it was intentional. She has a photgraphic memory and hadn't read the books in years. I agree that if she is found guilty of the charge that she should not get to slide by unpunished...severely. But, again...I am no convinced it was intentional. Plagarism is intentional. It will interesting to see how this plays out.

I do apologize for assuming guilt in my original post!

The evidence is a little unnerving, though, even if she did internalize most of what she read several years ago. She's got a great memory, that's for sure.

 

[Whootman]

I am not convinced that it was intentional. She has a photgraphic memory and hadn't read the books in years. I agree that if she is found guilty of the charge that she should not get to slide by unpunished...severely. But, again...I am no convinced it was intentional. Plagarism is intentional. It will interesting to see how this plays out.

Good point. It will be interesting to see what happens for sure.

 

[isobel]

considering how much she said she enjoyed the books she is supposed to have copied, you'd think she'd have noticed the close parallels. it wasn't just a couple sentences here and there; many of the details of characters are the same.

i'm sure she didn't think to herself "i'm gonna rip off these two books" but i'm sure she had an idea of what she was doing.

 

[TypeA]

If I had a memory like her's...I wouldn't have to do a post-bac! 😀

 

[thatslife]

You all should get the full scoop before calling her work plagiarized. It looks like they're going to edit the work before re-releasing it. Read more here:

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/24/D8H6LMKOI.html

 

[austinap]

If I had a memory like her's...I wouldn't have to do a post-bac! 😀

Why is she in college anyways? I mean, she had a publishing contract when she was 17 anyways, and signed off movie rights shortly after. Unless she just really likes acadamia, which I guess I would understand...

 

[Reimat]

I am not convinced that it was intentional.

Intentional or not, she admitted to using language from McCafferty's work and thus should have researched the work to make sure she was not copying anything directly. Her punishment should include monetary restitutions and possible dismissal from her undergrad institution.

 

[Reimat]

Sorry, my previous post sounds awfully harsh - I don't mean it to be, but I feel that there should be zero tolerance for plagiarism. Certainly that is just my 2 cents 😀

 

[potato51]

I read that story a few days ago. There really is no reason why, when she's written so much elsewhere in that book, that she needed to rip off just a few passages from another... assuming it was intentional. I can buy that she didn't mean to do it.

She'll be fine. After all, Helen Keller once unintentionally plagiarized and she came out okay from it.

 

[gujuDoc]

If I had a memory like her's...I wouldn't have to do a post-bac! 😀

Yeah I know what you mean. Didn't realize it was an Indian they were talking about either.

 

[Rogue Synapse]

I think falsifying scientific data is far worse. Literary plagiarism doesn't hurt anyone too badly, but scientific dishonesty can sabotage efforts to further the body of scientific knowledge that may be used to help people.

 

[BozoSparky]

I think falsifying scientific data is far worse. Literary plagiarism doesn't hurt anyone too badly, but scientific dishonesty can sabotage efforts to further the body of scientific knowledge that may be used to help people.

It often involves the use of public funds, as well.

 

[don juan]

This sets her up perfectly for the sequel to her first book: "How Opal Mehta Got Busted, Got Tried, and Got Her A$$ Tossed Out of School."

 

[MNsocsci]

There really is no reason why, when she's written so much elsewhere in that book, that she needed to rip off just a few passages from another... assuming it was intentional. I can buy that she didn't mean to do it.

I agree. If it was just a few passages that sounded similar, it was probably a mistake. Why would someone take such a huge risk to intentionally steal just a few passages? Have you guys ever tried to compose a song before and found it very difficult not to use any bit of a melody you've heard before? Maybe I'm just a softy, but I hope they go easy on her.

 

[Chinorean]

I agree. If it was just a few passages that sounded similar, it was probably a mistake. Why would someone take such a huge risk to intentionally steal just a few passages? Have you guys ever tried to compose a song before and found it very difficult not to use any bit of a melody you've heard before? Maybe I'm just a softy, but I hope they go easy on her.

I don't know, people shat all over James Frey for selling his fiction as a memoir. It's a good thing Oprah never called her up to be on her show.

 

[slmsmith]

from the passages posted online, it seems like the similarities are pretty striking. i can see unintentionally borrowing/ duplicating a phrase here and there, but the overlap between plots and wording seems too distinct to be coincidental. on the other hand, she is so young, and she made a mistake. i don't know if it's worth ruining her life over (ie throwing her out of school, etc.). i'm sure she's probably feeling pretty bad right now. even though what she did really sucks, i believe it's a forgivable crime, right? even though she's totally responsible, she is just a kid.

 

[Centinel]

Her excuse, that she 'thought the words really were her own', is more troubling than the plagiarism itself. Either (a) she's lying, or (b) she actually does not control what's going on in her brain. It must be a party up there!

 

[isobel]

I agree. If it was just a few passages that sounded similar, it was probably a mistake. Why would someone take such a huge risk to intentionally steal just a few passages?

lord knows but people get caught doing it all the time

 

[Rogue Synapse]

TUMR - Track your college apps (The med school application trackers aren't set up yet, but I'll change this when they are.)

That's lame. What's wrong with MDapplicants?

 

[MossPoh]

You know who else got caught cheating and what not...That is right..House M.D....and look how he turned out! 😛

 

[Law2Doc]

She has a photgraphic memory and hadn't read the books in years.

How is this a defense to plagiarism? I haven't read poems by Robert Frost in years, but you can bet that if I published one under my own name based on my memory, I would lose that case. (And if she has such a good memory, she would know the phrases weren't hers, and probably exactly where they came from.) It simply doesn't matter if you copy it side by side from someone's book or if you carry it around in your memory for years. If it's not your own work, you plagiarized. And some of the phrases she used look awfully close. She tried to take a short cut. Hopefully crime doesn't pay.

 

[pnasty]

I am not convinced that it was intentional. She has a photgraphic memory and hadn't read the books in years. I agree that if she is found guilty of the charge that she should not get to slide by unpunished...severely. But, again...I am no convinced it was intentional. Plagarism is intentional. It will interesting to see how this plays out.

hahah come on, this whole she has a photographic memory defense is bs. first of all who comes out and says the reason i was caught cheating is because i just remember things so well....shouldnt that mean that it would have been even EASIER for her to remember where she "unintentionally" took her material from? the photographic memory is just proof that it was intentional if anything. The publisher of the book she copied from doesnt believe her becasue of the sheer volume of how much is the same, and I would have to agree. I think she should have just admitted to it, because it will be ugly

 

[pnasty]

Intentional or not, she admitted to using language from McCafferty's work and thus should have researched the work to make sure she was not copying anything directly. Her punishment should include monetary restitutions and possible dismissal from her undergrad institution.

i agree with the monetary restrictions and probably loss of contract for both the books and movies (altho it will probably just make everything sell even more because of the hooplah around it, sort of like that Mel Gibson movie). can Harvard really kick her out tho? It's unrelated to the school, and didnt she write it before she went there or something? I feel bad for wanting her blood. I think if she admitted to it I would feel better about it, but the fact that she goes off saying she has a photographic memory is just hilarious to me.

 

[JDUB44]

This is prolly gonna piss some people off but i'm gonna say it. Now I've seen alot posts suggesting we condemn this girl to an eternity in hell for plagarism. But I say he who hath not plagarized cast the first stone. Now i know plagarism should be avoided at all costs, but you can't convince me for one single second that some of you jokers who are trying to be all hard and look cool in front of people on this forum, who you don't even know might i add, have never plagarized. Thats bull, i would say that a large, large majority of college students have plagarized on several occasions. I know i've done it before, not whole papers, but i've borrowed a phrase or two knowing it was someone else's, and ya'll have too. Ya'll act like its a hangin crime and i'm like give me a break, its serious yeah, but slap her on the wrist, give her a pat on the butt and put her back in the game. Cause when it comes right down to it nobody cares accept the girl and the author she stole from, who she already apologized to.

 

[pnasty]

sounds like you are feeling guilty about copying off other people. i dont think that many people plagiarize (altho i could be wrong)

haha you should have looked at some other people's work before trying to spell plagiarizing

 

[Babylonian]

This sets her up perfectly for the sequel to her first book: "How Opal Mehta Got Busted, Got Tried, and Got Her A$$ Tossed Out of School."

Funny Stuff 👍

 

[wingwang]

I am not surprised at all!!! She is Indian what do you expect??

 

[masterMood]

plagiarism isn't plagiarism as long as you don't get caught ha ha

In my opinion, plagiarism is of course wrong, but the western world owes a large amount of their knowledge and technology due to the eastern world (Middle East and China for example). Copernicus didn't figure out that the planets revolved around the sun just by himself, he used babylonian mathematical proofs (not exactly sure on the details) in order to discover that the planets revolve around the sun. Heck, there are so many examples in relative history that don't credit other people, and we don't know/don't care.

The Renaissance or the rebirth of the West didn't just happen by itself (after the Middle Ages). Apparently, we somehow rediscovered the ancient world and the writings of the Greeks, but a huge part of why we are here is due to the Islamic Empires that existed during the Middle Ages.

I dunno how i got to this ha ha.

 

[don juan]

This is prolly gonna piss some people off but i'm gonna say it. Now I've seen alot posts suggesting we condemn this girl to an eternity in hell for plagarism. But I say he who hath not plagarized cast the first stone. Now i know plagarism should be avoided at all costs, but you can't convince me for one single second that some of you jokers who are trying to be all hard and look cool in front of people on this forum, who you don't even know might i add, have never plagarized. Thats bull, i would say that a large, large majority of college students have plagarized on several occasions. I know i've done it before, not whole papers, but i've borrowed a phrase or two knowing it was someone else's, and ya'll have too. Ya'll act like its a hangin crime and i'm like give me a break, its serious yeah, but slap her on the wrist, give her a pat on the butt and put her back in the game. Cause when it comes right down to it nobody cares accept the girl and the author she stole from, who she already apologized to.

yea, but we're not talking about some college student copying text for some useless history paper that no one's gonna read. We're talking about high profile author copying text from another high profile author and making a whole lot of money off of it.

 

[PariPari]

blah blah blah blah. is it me or did this seem to happen a few years earlier but w/ different ppl?
I think it's hyper competitiveness getting the best of us.
I have a cousin who likes to write poetry, however if some one were to read it, it reads like top40 lyrics strung together in an odd way

Lots of ppl in music who "borrow" a hook or what not get sued. They're making her edit it before it gets published. She's gonna be feeling the after affects of this for a long time, (re: ppl trusting its her own work), to me, that'd be the worst punishment of all- to have your profession question everything you do & not respect you

I agree w/ the person above, falsifying data is way more serious

 

[emtji]

I am not surprised at all!!! She is Indian what do you expect??

a) you're an idiot.
b) between internet addresses and other information, it's not too hard for someone to figure out who you are. don't post stupid things on an internet bulletin board because you think it's anonymous. it really isn't and people have destroyed their careers this way.

 

[Philo]

I don't care what field you're in or how much pressure there is to succeed. Plagiarism isn't acceptable under any conditions, and I think anyone who is caught should be punished accordingly.

👍 👍 👍

 

[wingwang]

a) you're an idiot.
b) between internet addresses and other information, it's not too hard for someone to figure out who you are. don't post stupid things on an internet bulletin board because you think it's anonymous. it really isn't and people have destroyed their careers this way.

blah blah blah I am indian also 😴

 

[RayhanS1282]

This sets her up perfectly for the sequel to her first book: "How Opal Mehta Got Busted, Got Tried, and Got Her A$$ Tossed Out of School."

Now that'll be an original story.

 

[gujuDoc]

The only reason people are making a big deal about this is because it was done at Harvard.

 

[potato51]

The only reason people are making a big deal about this is because it was done at Harvard.

Anyone else awaiting a "Is what's happening at Harvard affecting your school choices?" thread 🙂

 

[sponge]

Why is she in college anyways? I mean, she had a publishing contract when she was 17 anyways, and signed off movie rights shortly after. Unless she just really likes acadamia, which I guess I would understand...

There are many people who enjoy college. Premeds don't usually fall into this category though. 😀

 

[Caligirl05]

Does anyone remembers the incident with Blair Hornstein a couple of years back, but her acceptance to Harvard was rescinded and the plagerism that occured didn't benefit her nearly as much financially as this current case. (she plagerized stuff for the local newspaper - her being kicked out probably also had to do with people not liking her for suing her school, but for arguments sake if it was just about the plagerism, then this girl is just as guilty) I do not for one minute believe that this girl didn't know what she was doing - the parallels in the passages in the two books are striking.

I do not know if she should be kicked out of Harvard for her mistake or not, but the precedent for Harvard to do so is there. The punishment should fit the crime, and I personally do not believe she should be kicked out of Harvard, however one could make the argument that her book deal helped with her application and therefore through her plagerism she gained admission to the school.

 

[beefballs]

This is prolly gonna piss some people off but i'm gonna say it. Now I've seen alot posts suggesting we condemn this girl to an eternity in hell for plagarism. But I say he who hath not plagarized cast the first stone. Now i know plagarism should be avoided at all costs, but you can't convince me for one single second that some of you jokers who are trying to be all hard and look cool in front of people on this forum, who you don't even know might i add, have never plagarized. Thats bull, i would say that a large, large majority of college students have plagarized on several occasions. I know i've done it before, not whole papers, but i've borrowed a phrase or two knowing it was someone else's, and ya'll have too. Ya'll act like its a hangin crime and i'm like give me a break, its serious yeah, but slap her on the wrist, give her a pat on the butt and put her back in the game. Cause when it comes right down to it nobody cares accept the girl and the author she stole from, who she already apologized to.

never plagiarized in my life-I would rather fail than cheat-and yes I have taken lower grades b/c of this. the only thing that you have that no one can take from you is your honor. I agree she copied, I know what books I "internalized" and if I wrote something similar, how could you not know. This is worse than Frey-he embelished his life story and lied and said it was all legit, she tried to pass others work of as her own, and no I don't think she can/should be booted from school since it was outside of the academic arena.

 

[DCDAWG]

I agree. If it was just a few passages that sounded similar, it was probably a mistake. Why would someone take such a huge risk to intentionally steal just a few passages? Have you guys ever tried to compose a song before and found it very difficult not to use any bit of a melody you've heard before? Maybe I'm just a softy, but I hope they go easy on her.

Thats a good point.
My guess is that the plot was very similar also, and those passages were given as an example to show she blatantly copied wording and and that the storyline was virtually the same.
I think combining a similar plot and similar wording is pretty bad on her part. If the plot was not similar and she only copied those few passages- then you are right, that seems extremely weird.

 

[nvshelat]

C'mon. It was 40 passages!

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=136662

 

[Reimat]

But I say he who hath not plagarized cast the first stone. Now i know plagarism should be avoided at all costs, but you can't convince me for one single second that some of you jokers who are trying to be all hard and look cool in front of people on this forum, who you don't even know might i add, have never plagarized.

I can honestly say I have never plagiarized. I don't know how many people do, but I like to think the number is small...

Anyhow, the penalty at my undergrad for lying, cheating, or stealing (plag. falls under lying and cheating) is expulsion. I realize some people have been saying that she should be given a slap on the wrist for the event, but doesn't that just affirm the fact that she pretty much gets away with the crime? So what if other people there are plagiarizing - it doesn't make it ok for her to do it. Losing a spot at the big H sounds harsh, and it is. But, if as a society we want our future leaders to know that lying and cheating are not ok, it needs to be strongly enforced. Yes, people make a big deal because this happened at Harvard, and rightfully so. That school is educating some of tomorrows most important leaders and the competition is tight. So tight, that yes, in fact, one slip up may bring you down. However, by enforcing such tight regulations, it shows that as a society we demand a high standard of excellence from our future leaders.

Sorry, had to rant a little 😉

 

[wingwang]

never plagiarized in my life-I would rather fail than cheat-and yes I have taken lower grades b/c of this. the only thing that you have that no one can take from you is your honor. I agree she copied, I know what books I "internalized" and if I wrote something similar, how could you not know. This is worse than Frey-he embelished his life story and lied and said it was all legit, she tried to pass others work of as her own, and no I don't think she can/should be booted from school since it was outside of the academic arena.

good point

 

[wingwang]

I can honestly say I have never plagiarized. I don't know how many people do, but I like to think the number is small...

Anyhow, the penalty at my undergrad for lying, cheating, or stealing (plag. falls under lying and cheating) is expulsion. I realize some people have been saying that she should be given a slap on the wrist for the event, but doesn't that just affirm the fact that she pretty much gets away with the crime? So what if other people there are plagiarizing - it doesn't make it ok for her to do it. Losing a spot at the big H sounds harsh, and it is. But, if as a society we want our future leaders to know that lying and cheating are not ok, it needs to be strongly enforced. Yes, people make a big deal because this happened at Harvard, and rightfully so. That school is educating some of tomorrows most important leaders and the competition is tight. So tight, that yes, in fact, one slip up may bring you down. However, by enforcing such tight regulations, it shows that as a society we demand a high standard of excellence from our future leaders.

Sorry, had to rant a little 😉

right on 👍

 

[pagemmapants]

Anyone else awaiting a "Is what's happening at Harvard affecting your school choices?" thread 🙂

I'm surprised there hasn't ben an "Is what's happening at Duke affecting your school choices?" thread.

In a word, no.

 

[pagemmapants]

Oh. There is one. ::blush::