Plain truth

[SpecterGT260]

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By the way, I am not trying to come off offensive in any way. I am simply talking in your language, you are obsoletely correct that most people go in for prestige, money, respect and all the other "honors" associated with doctors, but you need to realize this is how the world works, the reality. If there was a compassion screening test, I feel that more than half pre-meds would fail.

I know you didnt mean to put this here but the change in meaning made me laugh

 

[freedomist]

I would rather have a narcissistic, egocentric, god-complexed, and money-oriented physician who could perform his job well and provide good services, rather than a tree-hugging, humanitarian-martyr doctor who is not able to carry out his job. This has already been discussed before so there was not real point in bringing it up . . . but I think the best bet for you, on your glorious pursuit of truth, happiness, and compassion, is to simply become a CNA. Best of luck.

Compassion has never excluded talent are you confused? you can be both competent and compassionate. And just like the crappy doctors u already think u know what i need you actually prove my point

 

[TheVillain]

I know you didnt mean to put this here but the change in meaning made me laugh

😉

 

[pfaction]

Since your thread is pointless, let me take a moment to devote a post to a great football player who has passed before us today.

Absolutely not. What the OP said is almost 100% true. Pharmacy is the same thing: we spout wanting more patient care, and yet staff hospital pharmacists NEVER see patients, and community pharmacists rarely care about patients. You're in it for the money, don't deny it, just say the golden spiel and move on with your life once you're accepted. I want to laugh when people are so immersed in supposed patient care. You ****ing pre-meds are orgasming and jacking off for patient interaction when I doubt you've had meaningful interactions at all besides wheeling them around and bull**** that's considered "clinical", and when it comes time as med students to go on rounds, you look at their charts, you make the notes, make some pleasantries, and move on.

Because I'm next to you for 8 hours a day.

What about engineering? Engineers can work by themselves in the corner and live happy lives contributing to society.

Without engineers you wouldn't have bridges, or tunnels.

Without engineers you wouldn't have buildings or subways.

Engineers don't have to put on their personal statement regurgitations and ejaculations over why they want to be an engineer because of the societal interactions.

 

[TheVillain]

Compassion has never excluded talent are you confused? you can be both competent and compassionate. And just like the crappy doctors u already think u know what i need you actually prove my point

I never said compassion and talent are independent events, although in most cases they might be. For example if I am having a surgery, to me it doesn't matter if the surgeon is super-compassionate or an apathetic a-hole, as long as he does his job. I am not confused, I am trying to help you understand that in the end it doesn't matter.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Compassion has never excluded talent are you confused? you can be both competent and compassionate. And just like the crappy doctors u already think u know what i need you actually prove my point

that works both ways ke-mo sah-be. You can be talented without being compassionate (but this is tangential because you can also piss off idealistic and naive patients like... well.... 😉, and still be plenty compassionate).

What exactly did these crappy doctors do? I suspect they diagnosed and treated your condition and didnt make you feel special while they did it.... or refused to treat a condition you felt you had that you did not. Just speculating... but I bet it is one of those two.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Absolutely not. What the OP said is almost 100% true. Pharmacy is the same thing: we spout wanting more patient care, and yet staff hospital pharmacists NEVER see patients, and community pharmacists rarely care about patients. You ****ing pre-meds are orgasming and jacking off for patient interaction when I doubt you've had meaningful interactions at all besides wheeling them around and bull**** that's considered "clinical", and when it comes time to go on rounds, you look at their charts, you make the notes, make some pleasantries, and move on.

Because I'm ****ing with you for 8 hours a day.

what? are you pharm or med? who are you with 8 hours a day? premeds? maybe a few deep breaths and try this post again. either way, nothing in your post suggests that patient outcomes suffer as a result of "looking at charts and moving on" so the point is moot.

 

[freedomist]

Heaven help you when you get to your application process. No committee on earth will admit someone who puts this kind of negativism in a PS. I'm hoping if you truly want to get into medical school you will find a new motivation or light for wanting to get in. It may be a perfectly valid reason, but pursuing a medical degree because of your bad experience is IMO a mistake.

But anyway, to play devils advocate, I do some degree acknowledge your point. Unfortunately some things happen to you once you get into medical school and start dealing with real patients. For all of your idealism, some of it slips away to the reality of what medicine actually is. You can strive to help patients 100% of the time, but when a great deal of them reject your help, expect the impossible from you, and even tear you down it does change you. This is reflected in the behavior you see in some physicians I'm sure. I'll not deny it is our job to not get jaded, but as someone else pointed out we are only human beings. Which many of our patients forget.

There was an article in an AMA newsletter based on a New York Times column, which actually looked at the transformation medical students go through during 3rd year clerkships, and what schools are attempting to do to combat it. I'm not always that with the NYT, but it had some merit.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/19/reinventing-the-third-year-medical-student/?ref=health

Thank God your opinion is just yours and that everyone is entitled to one . I have already discussed that in all my essays and they have gotten me very far so far. adcoms like to see people that are driven to make the society a better place, people who have the inner drive to stand up and fight for the neglected. Guess what? I am one of them

 

[TheVillain]

: slow clap :

 

[dd128]

Thank God your opinion is just yours and that everyone is entitled to one . I have already discussed that in all my essays and they have gotten me very far so far. adcoms like to see people that are driven to make the society a better place, people who have the inner drive to stand up and fight for the neglected. Guess what? I am one of them

So I'm assuming you have already been accepted into medical school then?

 

[SpecterGT260]

Thank God your opinion is just yours and that everyone is entitled to one . I have already discussed that in all my essays and they have gotten me very far so far. adcoms like to see people that are driven to make the society a better place, people who have the inner drive to stand up and fight for the neglected. Guess what? I am one of them

ahem... the application cycle is over and has not reopened yet. so HOW far did they get you?

 

[TheVillain]

So you're not a doctor, but yet you spew your opinions and ideas as an subjective experience. After/If you become a Doc and work in that field for five years than you can tell us about compassion, motivation, and all the other heart-warming qualities a good doctor should posses. As an analogy, many brave, heroic, naive, gullible, and brainwashed men enter war fighting for abstract ideas such as freedom, democracy, security, and other vague expressions. After a few years of unconventional combat, dead friends, and perhaps personal scars, those soldiers understand that war was not what they thought it would be. It's all about experience.

 

[pfaction]

It's all about experience.

How many of those men have experienced war before, and claim to want that experience in even more ways and more depth than previously experienced before? How many of those men willingly take steps to go to war, mortgaging their future on war, and then move away from it? Sure, they understand how war isn't the same post-entrance, but that's what they wanted, isn't it? They got a taste of what war was like, saw the responsibilities soldiers face, and craved it, telling their recruiting interviewer they were hungry for blood. So when the interviewer throws them in the cold ground, are they allowed to have cold feet?

 

[freedomist]

ahem... the application cycle is over and has not reopened yet. so HOW far did they get you?

I haven't applied to medical school yet because I am also very interested and passionate about public health. I am getting a master in public health this year before applying to medical school. I ve been able to get in the best schools of public health naming a few Havard, JHU, UNC and I articulated all i ve been saying in my essays.

 

[jesse120]

Thank God your opinion is just yours and that everyone is entitled to one . I have already discussed that in all my essays and they have gotten me very far so far. adcoms like to see people that are driven to make the society a better place, people who have the inner drive to stand up and fight for the neglected. Guess what? I am one of them

I sincerely hope you won't be attending the same school as me. Just saying.

Edit: just read your post that you haven't been accepted to med school yet

 

[SpecterGT260]

How many of those men have experienced war before, and claim to want that experience in even more ways and more depth than previously experienced before? How many of those men willingly take steps to go to war, mortgaging their future on war, and then move away from it? Sure, they understand how war isn't the same post-entrance, but that's what they wanted, isn't it? They got a taste of what war was like, saw the responsibilities soldiers face, and craved it, telling their recruiting interviewer they were hungry for blood. So when the interviewer throws them in the cold ground, are they allowed to have cold feet?

what?
got a taste of what war was like and then talked to the recruiter? but otherwise no...just no to about everything you implied in this post (lack of chronological sense not withstanding). I take it you do not know any veterans personally.

 

[freedomist]

I haven't applied to medical school yet because I am also very interested and passionate about public health. I am getting a master in public health this year before applying to medical school. I ve been able to get in the best schools of public health naming a few Havard, JHU, UNC and I articulated all i ve been saying in my essays.

.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I haven't applied to medical school yet because I am also very interested and passionate about public health. I am getting a master in public health this year before applying to medical school. I ve been able to get in the best schools of public health naming a few Havard, JHU, UNC and I articulated all i ve been saying in my essays.

getting in to an MPH program is not at all prognostic for success in medical school. nor are the programs looking for the same things in essays. I have a suspicion that you are telling some fisherman's tales here

 

[freedomist]

I sincerely hope you won't be attending the same school as me. Just saying.

Edit: just read your post that you haven't been accepted to med school yet

Duh haven't applied yet

 

[freedomist]

getting in to an MPH program is not at all prognostic for success in medical school. nor are the programs looking for the same things in essays. I have a suspicion that you are telling some fisherman's tales here

well i don't need to justify myself here, am interested in public health as much as medicine that s why am getting a degree in public health. I don't doubt myself, my stats are strong, when i apply, i ll get in.

 

[pfaction]

what?
got a taste of what war was like and then talked to the recruiter? but otherwise no...just no to about everything you implied in this post (lack of chronological sense not withstanding). I take it you do not know any veterans personally.

It was a comparison of pre-meds and soldiers. Either my English is really that bad, or you're just heavily trolling me, saying I don't make sense.

 

[freedomist]

How many of those men have experienced war before, and claim to want that experience in even more ways and more depth than previously experienced before? How many of those men willingly take steps to go to war, mortgaging their future on war, and then move away from it? Sure, they understand how war isn't the same post-entrance, but that's what they wanted, isn't it? They got a taste of what war was like, saw the responsibilities soldiers face, and craved it, telling their recruiting interviewer they were hungry for blood. So when the interviewer throws them in the cold ground, are they allowed to have cold feet?

👍 So pertinent

 

[SpecterGT260]

It was a comparison of pre-meds and soldiers. Either my English is really that bad, or you're just heavily trolling me, saying I don't make sense.

your post didnt make sense.

How many of those men have experienced war before, and claim to want that experience in even more ways and more depth than previously experienced before?

you are implying something here.... that people who enter the service have "experienced" war? They have not... that is why they are newly enlisted 😕 CoD doesnt count.

How many of those men willingly take steps to go to war, mortgaging their future on war, and then move away from it? Sure, they understand how war isn't the same post-entrance, but that's what they wanted, isn't it?

So you are suggesting that they are excited about war and become disenfranchised. So what makes you think that they wanted this in the first place? The obvious answer is they did not. they expected war to be more glamorous than it turned out to be. the part in bold doesnt make sense

They got a taste of what war was like, saw the responsibilities soldiers face, and craved it, telling their recruiting interviewer they were hungry for blood. So when the interviewer throws them in the cold ground, are they allowed to have cold feet?

Here you suggest that hey get a taste of war (arguably what happens after you enlist) and then you suggest that they use that taste to gain entry via the recruiter.... an event that already would have happened for them to get this "taste" in the first place. this is a grandfather paradox in military recruitment first..... or a chicken and the egg.... either way it is circular

 

[235788]

I haven't applied to medical school yet because I am also very interested and passionate about public health. I am getting a master in public health this year before applying to medical school. I ve been able to get in the best schools of public health naming a few Havard, JHU, UNC and I articulated all i ve been saying in my essays.

lol what a let down.

 

[TheVillain]

How many of those men have experienced war before, and claim to want that experience in even more ways and more depth than previously experienced before? How many of those men willingly take steps to go to war, mortgaging their future on war, and then move away from it? Sure, they understand how war isn't the same post-entrance, but that's what they wanted, isn't it? They got a taste of what war was like, saw the responsibilities soldiers face, and craved it, telling their recruiting interviewer they were hungry for blood. So when the interviewer throws them in the cold ground, are they allowed to have cold feet?

I'm sorry but I'm having trouble following you (you're english might be too strong). But what I'm saying is.

1. There are exceptions to everyone, but most Veterans would rather not talk about their experience.
2. In most cases young men entering war are juiced on myths a.k.a movies that glorify war.
3. I was conveying that many people entering the field do not know what is really is like . . .thus the large number of depression and suicide cases.

 

[pfaction]

you are implying something here.... that people who enter the service have "experienced" war? They have not... that is why they are newly enlisted 😕 CoD doesnt count.

Pre-meds experience the medical field. If not shadowing, they're probably not getting in.

So you are suggesting that they are excited about war and become disenfranchised. So what makes you think that they wanted this in the first place? The obvious answer is they did not. they expected war to be more glamorous than it turned out to be. the part in bold doesnt make sense

Because they wouldn't've continued to shadow if they didn't want it, and they wouldn't apply to go to war if they didn't want it.

Here you suggest that hey get a taste of war (arguably what happens after you enlist) and then you suggest that they use that taste to gain entry via the recruiter.... an event that already would have happened for them to get this "taste" in the first place. this is a grandfather paradox in military recruitment first..... or a chicken and the egg.... either way it is circular

Taste of war: shadowing.
They use that taste of war to tell the recruiter: I want to do this. I know there's more, and I only experienced a little, but god damn it I want more.
Recruiter = interviewer for med school.

And with that, I'm at clinic at 8:30 AM, with first patient at 8:45, so see ya.

I'm sorry but I'm having trouble following you (you're english might be too strong). But what you're saying is.

Your sarcasm is quite good, if the "you're" is intentional.

 

[freedomist]

your post didnt make sense.



you are implying something here.... that people who enter the service have "experienced" war? They have not... that is why they are newly enlisted 😕 CoD doesnt count.

So you are suggesting that they are excited about war and become disenfranchised. So what makes you think that they wanted this in the first place? The obvious answer is they did not. they expected war to be more glamorous than it turned out to be. the part in bold doesnt make sense


Here you suggest that hey get a taste of war (arguably what happens after you enlist) and then you suggest that they use that taste to gain entry via the recruiter.... an event that already would have happened for them to get this "taste" in the first place. this is a grandfather paradox in military recruitment first..... or a chicken and the egg.... either way it is circular

You are totally missing his point. I think he s trying to say that even though pre meds get in medicine without having been exposed to the reality of it, so do soldiers. And he is stressing that soldiers endure so much on the fields but are still very dedicated to serve. The argument here is that the harsh reality should not compromise our efforts as physicians in delivering the best possible care with the same dedication.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Pre-meds experience the medical field. If not shadowing, they're probably not getting in.

Because they wouldn't've continued to shadow if they didn't want it, and they wouldn't apply to go to war if they didn't want it.

Taste of war: shadowing.
They use that taste of war to tell the recruiter: I want to do this. I know there's more, and I only experienced a little, but god damn it I want more.
Recruiter = interviewer for med school.

And with that, I'm at clinic at 8:30 AM, with first patient at 8:45, so see ya.



Your sarcasm is quite good, if the "you're" is intentional.

ok, so your english wasnt bad, just the analogy
what clinic is this? you are a pharmacist?

 

[SpecterGT260]

You are totally missing his point. I think he s trying to say that even though pre meds get in medicine without having been exposed to the reality of it, so do soldiers. And he is stressing that soldiers endure so much on the fields but are still very dedicated to serve. The argument here is that the harsh reality should not compromise our efforts as physicians in delivering the best possible care with the same dedication.

nope..... looks like you missed the point. he explained what he meant and it was not this

 

[circulus vitios]

The longer you work with people, the more you hate them. Don't believe me? Get a summer job as a cashier or a waitress or a customer service rep.

 

[TheVillain]

The longer you work with people, the more you hate them. Don't believe me? Get a summer job as a cashier or a waitress or a customer service rep.

Yeah...it's a cruel world. Given the right circumstances, people will be killing each other over a crumb of bread.😡

 

[235788]

The longer you work with people, the more you hate them. Don't believe me? Get a summer job as a cashier or a waitress or a customer service rep.

I agree.




but people treat physicians differently than their waitresses. Things are often quite a bit different when someones health is on the line.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I agree.




but people treat physicians differently than their waitresses. Things are often quite a bit different when someones health is on the line.

yeah... we dont get tipped

 

[circulus vitios]

I agree.




but people treat physicians differently than their waitresses. Things are often quite a bit different when someones health is on the line.

Oh, I agree. Physicians are held to a higher standard and they hold themselves to a higher standard. But the hatred and disgust is still there, I would imagine. "Hell is other people."

 

[freedomist]

The longer you work with people, the more you hate them. Don't believe me? Get a summer job as a cashier or a waitress or a customer service rep.

Then why are some of these peps choosing medicine, a profession that requires a life long interaction with patients? or am i just confused? too much tequilla? yes ? no? I don't think i ve had tequilla or is it the effects of the crappy medications from my crappy doctor

 

[TheVillain]

http://www.auschwitz.dk/doctors.htm

So much for compassion, and you really think that you are not capable of such acts?

 

[circulus vitios]

Then why are some of these peps choosing medicine, a profession that requires a life long interaction with patients? or am i just confused? too much tequilla? yes ? no? I don't think i ve had tequilla or is it the effects of the crappy medications from my crappy doctor

Because it's interesting and it pays well, and between all of the ****ty, miserable patients that you wish would just die, there are a few who make worthwhile?

 

[SpecterGT260]

Then why are some of these peps choosing medicine, a profession that requires a life long interaction with patients? or am i just confused? too much tequilla? yes ? no? I don't think i ve had tequilla or is it the effects of the crappy medications from my crappy doctor

why was your doctor crappy?

This reminds me very much of a lecture we recently had on schizophrenia... eerily similar to the patient video

 

[235788]

Then why are some of these peps choosing medicine, a profession that requires a life long interaction with patients? or am i just confused? too much tequilla? yes ? no? I don't think i ve had tequilla or is it the effects of the crappy medications from my crappy doctor

because of surgery. Short relationships, leading a team, using my hands to physically improve someones life... the list goes on. I could never see myself in IM/FP, where you're just managing symptoms.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

It was a comparison of pre-meds and soldiers. Either my English is really that bad, or you're just heavily trolling me, saying I don't make sense.

It is

 

[TheShaker]

why was your doctor crappy?

This reminds me very much of a lecture we recently had on schizophrenia... eerily similar to the patient video

He didn't prescribe him adderall. What a jerk. 😡

 

[TheVillain]

😕

It is

 

[FutureCTDoc]

😕

His English is awful.

 

[freedomist]

why was your doctor crappy?

This reminds me very much of a lecture we recently had on schizophrenia... eerily similar to the patient video

I had this very rare condition that I don't feel like disclosing on SDN, but my family took me to more than 20 different doctors that could not come up with the right diagnosis and treatment, every time it was something different and I didn't feel like all these doctors really cared about all my pain. At some point I promised myself to get in medicine myself and learn more about my condition, I have been very frustrated as a patient by doctors, and the only one that genuinely cared about my condition and went the extra mile to help unfortunately relocated to England. Every time I met with these doctors they always rushed to prescribe this or that, I was on so many medications and it took pretty much my entire life to finally get to someone who tried his best to get to the root of my condition.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

why was your doctor crappy?

This reminds me very much of a lecture we recently had on schizophrenia... eerily similar to the patient video

Well played sir, well played.

 

[235788]

I had this very rare condition that I don't feel like disclosing on SDN, but my family took me to more than 20 different doctors that could not come up with the right diagnosis and treatment, every time it was something different and I didn't feel like all these doctors really cared about all my pain. At some point I promised myself to get in medicine myself and learn more about my condition, I have been very frustrated as a patient by doctors, and the only one that genuinely cared about my condition and went the extra mile to help unfortunately relocated to England. Every time I met with these doctors they always rushed to prescribe this or that, I was on so many medications and it took pretty much my entire life to finally get to someone who tried his best to get to the root of my condition.

So you experienced the reality of modern medicine and how we know much less than the media/culture leads one to believe, and this motivated you to become a doctor?

 

[TheVillain]

I had this very rare condition that I don't feel like disclosing on SDN, but my family took me to more than 20 different doctors that could not come up with the right diagnosis and treatment, every time it was something different and I didn't feel like all these doctors really cared about all my pain. At some point I promised myself to get in medicine myself and learn more about my condition, I have been very frustrated as a patient by doctors, and the only one that genuinely cared about my condition and went the extra mile to help unfortunately relocated to England. Every time I met with these doctors they always rushed to prescribe this or that, I was on so many medications and it took pretty much my entire life to finally get to someone who tried his best to get to the root of my condition.

Now it all makes sense. So I assume as soon as you become a doctor you will join Doctors Without Borders and become the martyr for humanity.😎

 

[SpecterGT260]

I had this very rare condition that I don't feel like disclosing on SDN, but my family took me to more than 20 different doctors that could not come up with the right diagnosis and treatment, every time it was something different and I didn't feel like all these doctors really cared about all my pain. At some point I promised myself to get in medicine myself and learn more about my condition, I have been very frustrated as a patient by doctors, and the only one that genuinely cared about my condition and went the extra mile to help unfortunately relocated to England. Every time I met with these doctors they always rushed to prescribe this or that, I was on so many medications and it took pretty much my entire life to finally get to someone who tried his best to get to the root of my condition.

rare conditions are more difficult to diagnose because they are rare.... this does not actually reflect the attitudes of your physicians. So in a nutshell you are just venting your frustrations on doctors who tried to help you...... nice 👍

Also, the term "my pain" bugs me.... over utilized in seekers

 

[Marge]

Hi everyone,

I just feel like telling the truth,

Why do you all care about medicine ( right you care about people and you want to help) but the truth is that these guys only care about themselves, once they get their MD/DOs they totally forget about those they once claimed they would care for and are after more prestige, honors, bonuses, and the like. They become arrogant and neglectful, and I have experienced this as a patient, and I honestly want you all to reconsider your aspiration for medicine and be true to yourself.....
For real why don't you guys become food servants or nannies or farmers? honestly cause once these premeds get in medical school they totally forget about the patients, one of my friends in med school once told me that the best residency is the one involving the least contact with patients,,,, Seriously? so why did you go to medical school?
So please, if you are among those who just want to get in medicine for honors, prestige, please, for the sake of patients, quit, because medicine requires sincere passion and compassion.
And what the heck, save yourself from stress, be a teacher, a nanny, a farmer, a food servant..... and be happy,

Doctors are held to an unreasonably high standard. We don't ask restaurant managers to be "compassionate" and "altruistic" ... nor do we allow people to use their services without paying, nor do we insist that the population of restaurant managers reflect the composition of the general public.

It's perfectly fine to be in medicine for the pay, prestige, and job security. You'll just have to pretend you like people to get into medical school.

 

[235788]

rare conditions are more difficult to diagnose because they are rare.... this does not actually reflect the attitudes of your physicians. So in a nutshell you are just venting your frustrations on doctors who tried to help you...... nice 👍

Also, the term "my pain" bugs me.... over utilized in seekers

exactly. Unrealistic expectations contribute to patient dissatisfaction (survey data suggest).