Plan B if things go down the drain?

[cyanide12345678]

Agreed. I just got an email for the very generous sum of $200 an hour in...NYC. ROFL. Better time to watch Netflix and go for runs in the woods.

In NYC! HELL NO. That's basically guaranteeing that I'll get infected and basically give myself a 1 in 50 odds of dying. 1 in 20 chance of ending up in an icu -_- i like to think my health is worth more than 200/hr.

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[Fox800]

A colleague of mine that does locums full-time suggested requiring the following from recruiters:

"1. Obviously travel, lodging, insurance, standard stuff
2. Hazard pay rate - I think we’ll see at least double rate - 400-600/hr
3. Guaranteed pay for shifts 60, 90 days out? if you get sick and can’t work.
4. Hospitalization/treatment costs covered if you get sick
5. No restrictive covenants, non-competes
6. No penalty if you miss a shift because of travel (for us flyers with unpredictable government recommendations)"

I'm going to add if you are on a locums assignment and are placed on mandatory isolation by a public health authority, the locums company needs to pay for the cost of the hotel/accommodations and pay the expense your travel when isolation is over.

Also, they have to provide in writing that you are allowed to provide your own PPE. No push-back, no threats of being written up or discipline. It's OSHA and CDC standard for suspected COVID-19. I don't trust sketchy small hospitals to have supplies of face shields and N95 respirators during all of this.

 

[miacomet]

Any of you FIRE folks thinking of quitting? I'm leanish FIRE. Not sure what to do. Better to quit ahead and give notice, or walk off when the PPE disappears?

 

[e30ftw]

I would like to be able to go part-time or retire in ten years (at 45).

I am more motivated than ever to serve my community as an emergency physician. This is why we trained, assuming it actually gets bad. Recently our volumes dropped...

Am more satisfied than ever before in medicine as a profession, due to its general resilience in turmoil.

Also I'll continue to invest as much as possible during the bear market.

The last month in particular has rekindled my interest in psychology.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Any of you FIRE folks thinking of quitting? I'm leanish FIRE. Not sure what to do. Better to quit ahead and give notice, or walk off when the PPE disappears?

I think a lot of us can't quit at the moment due to 30% reductions in our retirement savings.

 

[miacomet]

I think a lot of us can't quit at the moment due to 30% reductions in our retirement savings.

But for those who can????

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Honestly I bitch as much as anyone but it truly seems you’re miserable. Why not step away and see if life holds something better for you?

But for those who can????

 

[miacomet]

Honestly I bitch as much as anyone but it truly seems you’re miserable. Why not step away and see if life holds something better for you?

Because I feel guilty leaving my group at a time like this.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Totally reasonable.

Because I feel guilty leaving my group at a time like this.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Any of you FIRE folks thinking of quitting? I'm leanish FIRE. Not sure what to do. Better to quit ahead and give notice, or walk off when the PPE disappears?

I'm not fire yet, but how to get out of a contract without a 90 day notice that's built into the contract.

I read through mine today to see if there was any clause that i could pull off. I have a clause where i can peace out in 30 says at best

 

[miacomet]

I'm not fire yet, but how to get out of a contract without a 90 day notice that's built into the contract.

I read through mine today to see if there was any clause that i could pull off. I have a clause where i can peace out in 30 says at best

This is what I'm struggling with...we have a 90 day out clause.

 

[GeneralVeers]

This is what I'm struggling with...we have a 90 day out clause.

You can always quit any time, but there may be built-in penalties where they withhold a portion of salary. Also forget getting a job with any group who ever checks references.

In 90 days there's a strong possibility that this current situation will be mostly resolved. Your best bet would be to cut back and give up shifts to limit your exposure as much as possible.

 

[cyanide12345678]

You can always quit any time, but there may be built-in penalties where they withhold a portion of salary. Also forget getting a job with any group who ever checks references.

In 90 days there's a strong possibility that this current situation will be mostly resolved. Your best bet would be to cut back and give up shifts to limit your exposure as much as possible.

Yeah i can quit, but if they pay someone 500/hr to replace my shifts, then I'm on the hook for 500-265. So anything more than they would have to pay me unless i have some emergency reason to be off.

2 months and this mess will start getting better

 

[deleted109597]

Hazard pay?! Your a healthcare provider in he middle of a national disaster which means they’ll put you in harms way and pay you whatever they feel like it when they feel like it.

Yeah, so they pay the military hazard pay. They pay GS hazard pay.

I'm already working more than enough away from home. I'm not going to sign up for even more shifts at low rates, even when it's not during a pandemic. If they want me to go do it AND risk getting sick, they're going to have to pay me even more.
If you think I'm a bad person, you're welcome to go work the shifts instead.

 

[deleted941485]

Yeah, so they pay the military hazard pay. They pay GS hazard pay.

I'm already working more than enough away from home. I'm not going to sign up for even more shifts at low rates, even when it's not during a pandemic. If they want me to go do it AND risk getting sick, they're going to have to pay me even more.
If you think I'm a bad person, you're welcome to go work the shifts instead.

I mean people like pathologists seem to be getting coerced into contributing to this madness in NYC. I don’t see how they have a choice in the matter.

I honestly don’t see the difference between someone who has been conscripted to help and people who refuse.

 

[deleted109597]

I mean people like pathologists seem to be getting coerced into contributing to this madness in NYC. I don’t see how they have a choice in the matter.

I honestly don’t see the difference between someone who has been conscripted to help and people who refuse.

I have no idea what you're saying.
Are you implying that a pathologist has no choice on whether to work extra or not? And if they are, they can't name their rate?

 

[GeneralVeers]

I mean people like pathologists seem to be getting coerced into contributing to this madness in NYC. I don’t see how they have a choice in the matter.

I honestly don’t see the difference between someone who has been conscripted to help and people who refuse.

I wouldn't work for no pay. If they called me on a day off and said "Come in to work in a dangerous, crazy environment, and by the way we aren't paying you". I'd refuse. If they fired me, I'd sue them and they'd lose.

 

[deleted941485]

I have no idea what you're saying.
Are you implying that a pathologist has no choice on whether to work extra or not? And if they are, they can't name their rate?

I’m saying that being drafted to manage coronavirus implies that you don’t have say in the matter.

 

[deleted109597]

I’m saying that being drafted to manage coronavirus implies that you don’t have say in the matter.

Except there's no draft. How are they being forced? Is the implication that they won't have a job unless they try to kill themselves?

 

[GeneralVeers]

Except there's no draft. How are they being forced? Is the implication that they won't have a job unless they try to kill themselves?

Exactly. I'm not sure there's a mechanism to force civilians to do ANY labor against their will without drafting them into the military.

 

[Apollyon]

Exactly. I'm not sure there's a mechanism to force civilians to do ANY labor against their will without drafting them into the military.

It's in the 13th Amendment. Involuntary servitude after conviction of a crime. Not the way to do it, but, I'm just sayin'.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Yeah, so they pay the military hazard pay. They pay GS hazard pay.

I'm already working more than enough away from home. I'm not going to sign up for even more shifts at low rates, even when it's not during a pandemic. If they want me to go do it AND risk getting sick, they're going to have to pay me even more.
If you think I'm a bad person, you're welcome to go work the shifts instead.

I'm thinking the money isn't worth it.

I'm hearing all these young people in ICUs intubated.

My health and my family's health is worth more.

If i had an easy way out, i would take it right now and not put myself or my family under harms way.

That probably makes me a selfish and bad person too

 

[bravotwozero]

I'm thinking the money isn't worth it.

I'm hearing all these young people in ICUs intubated.

My health and my family's health is worth more.

If i had an easy way out, i would take it right now and not put myself or my family under harms way.

That probably makes me a selfish and bad person too

Well locums is definitely not worth it, hazard pay or not. You really won't know what kind of environment you're dealing with until you get to the hospital, in terms of available PPE, screening/triage processes, etc. The travel itself is a risk too.

But at your local FT gig, you at least know what you're dealing with and can prepare, take all precautions.

 

[deleted941485]

Except there's no draft. How are they being forced? Is the implication that they won't have a job unless they try to kill themselves?

Simple. You don’t do it you’re fired. Done finished. You have he freedom to leave but don’t expect a job when this all settles out.

 

[bravotwozero]

That’s still not a draft and you don’t really have a point to prove here except to argue for the sake of arguing and spreading misinformation


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[deleted941485]

That’s still not a draft and you don’t really have a point to prove here except to argue for the sake of arguing and spreading misinformation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Let us know what happens when your asked to help out and you say no.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Let us know what happens when your asked to help out and you say no.

Again it depends. Paid? I'll help out some, but certainly not working long stretches without a break. Unpaid? Forget it.

 

[deleted941485]

Again it depends. Paid? I'll help out some, but certainly not working long stretches without a break. Unpaid? Forget it.

Let’s assume it’s work now and we pay you later

 

[bravotwozero]

Let us know what happens when your asked to help out and you say no.

No, I won’t feed the troll.


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[deleted109597]

Let’s assume it’s work now and we pay you later

Then they find someone else willing to take that.
Plenty of us here have quit jobs that suck. This sounds like one of them. Moving on.

 

[RustedFox]

Let’s assume it’s work now and we pay you later

Yeah, no.
Too many times have I been burned by this.

 

[deleted941485]

Yeah, no.
Too many times have I been burned by this.

Come on if they can coerce path residents in NYC to do this for 0 extra dollars and added risk of not having any a guarantee. If admin needs bodies, then guess what you should be that much harder.

 

[RustedFox]

Come on if they can coerce path residents in NYC to do this for 0 extra dollars and added risk of not having any a guarantee. If admin needs bodies, then guess what you should be that much harder.

Uhh?
Repeat, please?

And no. I dont work for free. Once I see admins donating their fat bonuses (generally bigger than our paychecks, I'll wager), then I'll reconsider.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Uhh?
Repeat, please?

And no. I dont work for free. Once I see admins donating their fat bonuses (generally bigger than our paychecks, I'll wager), then I'll reconsider.

Agreed. It should be easy enough to draft up a contract with an hourly rate for the services they need. If they can't do that, then forget it.

 

[Perrotfish]

Come on if they can coerce path residents in NYC to do this for 0 extra dollars and added risk of not having any a guarantee. If admin needs bodies, then guess what you should be that much harder.

You can coerce a resident into almost anything amount or kind of work that meets ACGME regulations, because if they say no they risk their ability to practice medicine ever.

You can not, in general, coerce an attending into very much. You can threaten to fire them, but that's only a threat if there isn't another job readily available and there usually is. If anything the crisis makes it harder to coerce an ER attending, not easier. If they fire you they need to replace you, and replacement ER doctors are not exactly easy to find right now.

Maybe this will get crazy enough that they start actually drafting doctors. Or engage in some kind of pseudo-draft like threatening peoples' licenses if they don't work every day during the crisis. However no one has even proposed that yet, and until they do they can't force an attending to do anything.

They also haven't actually made path residents cover the floors yet. Some of them are being told that it might happen, but so far it hasn't happened.

 

[miacomet]

For you young invincibles, it looks like certain NYC hospitals are paying mad money (they basically asked me to quote them a number) for those willing to risk it. I don't think $400/hr would be out of the question.

 

[bravotwozero]

If I already had a confirmed mild covid case and recovered, I might feel brave enough to consider it.

 

[GeneralVeers]

If I already had a confirmed mild covid case and recovered, I might feel brave enough to consider it.

We need an antibody test ASAP. Would help many of us to know if we've already had it and recovered

 

[miacomet]

If I already had a confirmed mild covid case and recovered, I might feel brave enough to consider it.

I mean, most, or at least many, of us will probably get it in the next year, right?

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Sure, but do you want to volunteer to walk into a place with growing concern over ICU capacity without some suggestion you could have immunity?

I mean, most, or at least many, of us will probably get it in the next year, right?

 

[miacomet]

Sure, but do you want to volunteer to walk into a place with growing concern over ICU capacity without some suggestion you could have immunity?

I don't really want to intubate Covid pts, and we have a tube team now at my current shop that does not involve me, which is way better.

We have a high caseload here; I don't know how different it will be, honestly, except I don't have to tube, which is huge.

 

[Birdstrike]

This is what I'm struggling with...we have a 90 day out clause.

Will there ever be a time your group will say, "We don't need you?"

 

[Birdstrike]

Once I see admins donating their fat bonuses (generally bigger than our paychecks, I'll wager), then I'll reconsider.

 

[miacomet]

Will there ever be a time your group will say, "We don't need you?"

I live in a very competitive market, so I could be replaced quite nicely.

 

[Birdstrike]

I live in a very competitive market, so I could be replaced quite nicely.

Sounds like you have options, then.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

The Coronavirus has made the value of docs go up like medical equipment. See NYC or San Diego you can replace them more easily than they can replace you.

 

[southerndoc]

I don't really want to intubate Covid pts, and we have a tube team now at my current shop that does not involve me, which is way better.

We have a high caseload here; I don't know how different it will be, honestly, except I don't have to tube, which is huge.

N-95 and Glidescope for the win. Avoids getting in their face with traditional laryngoscopy. We have a hood that also goes over the patient to limit exposure.

 

[GeneralVeers]

N-95 and Glidescope for the win. Avoids getting in their face with traditional laryngoscopy. We have a hood that also goes over the patient to limit exposure.

They are forcing us to use PAPR on every intubation now. Takes a good 15 minutes to suit up and get everything ready for an intubation that would have been finished in 5 minutes.

 

[miacomet]

N-95 and Glidescope for the win. Avoids getting in their face with traditional laryngoscopy. We have a hood that also goes over the patient to limit exposure.

Woohoo! Anesthesia wants it. Nice.

 

[Fox800]

For you young invincibles, it looks like certain NYC hospitals are paying mad money (they basically asked me to quote them a number) for those willing to risk it. I don't think $400/hr would be out of the question.

Still not enough to work in the medmal hellhole and cesspool that is NYC.

Maybe for $600+ with special immunity granted by state law - but that will never happen. They love their attorneys too much.

I've set my floor at $400/hr with no air travel involved. We'll see what happens.