Plastics? Settle for ENT or GS?

[Gotti]

Hey guys,
I am in the middle of my surgery rotation as an MS3 and just found that I love plastic surgery. I am an MSTP from a top 15-20 med school who finished my Phd with a publication but my research was in basic sciences with no relevance to surgery at all. I scored 232 on step 1, 4 years ago, but my class ranking will likely be 4th quartile, 3rd if I pray. I always thought I would do psych or medicine or radiology so I didn't study too hard. I'm trying now to study harder and still have surgery and medicine to finish up, now finally taking my ADHD medicine. I have more social skills than your average med student, especially so for a PHd student, which also means I drank my brain cells away during grad school. Should I just try for ENT, which I know is hard enough as is, and get in that way or GS to get in later? I'm afraid I'm not smart enough to impress anyone as a GS resident, but who knows now that I am taking my ADHD meds. Is applying integrated plastics, ENT, GS and maybe even rad onc going to spread my application too thin or should I focus just on one or two things?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Mariah246]

Is applying integrated plastics, ENT, GS and maybe even rad onc going to spread my application too thin or should I focus just on one or two things?

You should focus on one thing...

 

[Gotti]

yeah, but ENT or GS? Or should I not have a loser mentality and go for integrated plastics? Mostly I want to know how I should focus 4th year electives. Should I try to do sub-Is in plastics or ENT or GS? If I do a GS application, should I say want to do plastics eventually? I noticed a couple of GS residents were a little bitter about the plastics people, trying to put them down as not being genuine doctors trying to help people.

 

[plastikosmd]

1) Most GS are fine with you doing plastic, some maybe even a little jealous. Probably a major source of some bitterness, so what? Other people's feelings about what you want to do should not even register on your radar.

2) I really don’t think you know what you want to do yet. The range from GS to PRS then to ENT and then RAD/ONC is huge. Finish your core, do some electives and decide. (see #4)

3) The field of PRS seems to be always changing regarding the process of getting in. The newest, if you move out of a GS position at yr 3+ and into a PRS spot, you can only do that at your current program. I don’t know what the future holds for eventual training of plastic surgeons. but if I wanted to be one...I would not choose GS pathway to PRS fellowship as first choice and be left up to the whims of the ACGME/ABPS.

4) I don’t understand the self-deprecation. Your scores are more than adequate to get you some interviews but you need experience and a knowledge base to work from. That is where you need to start. There is more than enough time in medical school to shadow a GS/ENT/PRS on soft afternoons, evenings, rounds on weekend. That is all that I did, we had no program at my med school. For me it was NeuroSurg/Ortho/Plastic. Set up a meeting, introduce yourself and ask if you cant watch/help/learn. That time that you are not on call, have no test the next day, just work etc..that time is called "free time." Surgeons work late, offices and OR run late. When you are not on call for your service, take call when your mentor is on. These should not be new ideas as most of us utilized them to get into med school.
You have to make the effort, gain some experience and then just do it.

Good luck in whatever you decide!

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

The answer from my standpoint is, do you really want to be an ENT? Do you know what we do and are you prepared to immerse yourself into ENT for five years? If not, then don't waste your time or a programs time. However, if you really wanted to be an ENT there is always the route of a facial plastics fellowship (1 year) which might fit some of what you are looking for from PRS (only you know exactly what that is).

Further...

You will be competing against a tough group of appplicants and many would hardly see ENT as a realistic backup to Plastics. The match numbers/competitiveness just don't support that approach. The "easiest" (and I use that term very loosely) would be an approach through GS. This is also the most popular choice.

However, as mentioned above there are a lot of years between now and when you'd be applying for fellowship. There really is no way of knowing how many programs would even still exist to train you in that model. Are you willing to bust your hump in GS with the very real thought that the PRS fellowship may not be there at the end of the road???

It's a tough time for you and I definitely sense how torn you are. Really do some self analysis and see where you end up. Feel free to PM me if you have more specific questions. Good luck!

 

[Gotti]

Would it look bad to apply to both ENT and plastics at the same school? Or GS and plastics? I guess the departments would know that I really want to do plastics but am looking for a backup.

How bad wou
​

 

[entprospect]

Umm.. before you start counting on being at hopkins to ENT as your back up might want to research the statsitics. Being at the bottom 1/2 let alone bottom 1/3 of the class you'll be lucky to get ANY ENT interviews. As someone who just went through the ENT match, I had board scores almost 20 points higher and was in the top 20% of my class. Still had majority of the places reject me for an interview. Good luck...

 

[Gotti]

I'm sorry to insult people on my comment on settling for ENT. I know its a stretch for me to get ENT. It just seems that there are more spots for ENT than plastics and if applying to one blacklists me for the other, it seems I should put all my eggs into ENT just from the greater number of spots. Essentially, I just want to operate on the human head because its the most delicate structure. Also I've heard ENT values research quite a bit more than plastics who just wants people with amazing hands and scores.

I
​

 

[plasticresident]

If you can get into an integrated program, go for it. It's not a cop-out. More training is always better so 5 and 2 or 5 and 3 is great but in the long run, it's all the same and why not save yourself a couple of years. The classic SF match is around 35% (taking away the people coming from research at an institution that guaranteed them a plastics spot). I doubt you would want to deal with those odds after 5 years of pain (the way I did). If I could do it all over again, I would push for an integrated spot rather than do 8 years of residency.

 

[nne97080]

Oh my God this is so my dilemma

 

[nne97080]

I was wondering are there any programs that interview individuals below 220 around average as in 216 but in upper tier of the class and ok rotation grades. Just a very bad test taker but figured I would do psychiatry for the longest

 

[DrDre311]

I was wondering are there any programs that interview individuals below 220 around average as in 216 but in upper tier of the class and ok rotation grades. Just a very bad test taker but figured I would do psychiatry for the longest

With a score like that you'll need some eye-popping research and LOR's from VIP plastic surgeons. Not to say that it can't be done but that number will fall through many programs' screening criteria.

That being said, there were 2 applicants who matched with scores <225 this year--one in California. They were also both research-heavy applicants who had done several aways at prestigious institutions.

 

[nne97080]

With a score like that you'll need some eye-popping research and LOR's from VIP plastic surgeons. Not to say that it can't be done but that number will fall through many programs' screening criteria.

That being said, there were 2 applicants who matched with scores <225 this year--one in California. They were also both research-heavy applicants who had done several aways at prestigious institutions.

Would they consider u if u have stellar step II scores?

 

[DrDre311]

Would they consider u if u have stellar step II scores?

Plastic surgery is so competitive that most programs have screening criteria because they get so many good apps. Some screening criteria include: Step I score, AOA status, and sometimes what med school you come from (i.e. Ivy League or regional bias). That means that if you have a low Step I score or are not AOA then your app automatically goes into the "no" pile--irrespective of other application aspects.

This does not apply to all programs, and if your Step I score is not ideal, then you can certainly help yourself by rocking Step II. You'd also need to have research, several aways, and great LOR's. It's not impossible to match with a low Step I score but no matter how well you do on Step II you'll still get fewer interviews than you would with a higher Step I score.