Please advise me on possible endo residency application.

[Endohopeful]

Hello everyone!

I've found myself more and more interested in completing an endo residency over my years of practice. I'll put together as much info as I can, in hopes of obtaining answers or guidance to start my endo journey.

First, I've always given high respect to endodontists, and their ability to treat some of the most complicated cases found in the dental field. I always tell my patients, on one hand you have dentistry, the other hand you have endodontics. I tell them it is very difficult to successfuly complete most endodontic cases, and if there is anyone on earth capable of achieving this high level of care they deserve, it would be an endodontist. I tell this to them sort of like, would you see your regular physician for heart surgery? Of course, this is explained to my patients as I get their endo referral form ready. I strongly feel that if you can perform very high quality endodontic treatment, then you could do anything in dentistry with high quality.

My background:
-Graduated, and live in Texas
-I've been out of school practicing for 3 years
-Have practiced in many different style settings of dentistry - medicaid, high pedo volume, high end cosmetics, family practice, traveling dentist for specialty procedures.
-(not that this may matter for residency purposes) I've been a very high producer, while enjoying very high case acceptance % in private practice. I also do this following a moral/ethical code, and strive hard to never "overdiagnose" or cross any unacceptable boundaries in dentistry.
-Find myself constantly reading dental literature & forums for gain of a higher dental education.

-Graduated in bottom half of my class
-Part I and II board scores around an 80
-No research completed
-didn't excel in didactic courses, but did excel in all aspects of practicing general dentistry. outstanding clinical grades, quick to complete required credits, etc..
-I sort of found a balance between home life, exercise, and dental school that worked well for me. This did not work out the best for my grades.

I'm curious, and would appreciate any feedback here.
-What are my chances of getting in to an endo residency?
-What could I do to improve my chances of getting in to an endo residency?
-Am I just out of luck, and stand no chance of getting in?
-Would joining military give me a route to residency if other methods could not?

At the end of the day, I could continue on owning my own office(s), do well in life, retire early, and relax on the beach. OR, I could turn my burning desire to learn higher quality endo in to a career path that I may ultimately find more rewarding to me personally on a daily basis. This may sound cheesy, but if I were to come home every day knowing I completed many "beast like" Surgical, or Non Surgical endodontic treatments, I feel strongly that I would feel more accomplished in life. I don't want you to think RCTs is my only focus, no, I am highly interested in to study of the dental pulp tissue, and all aspects related to understanding and treating it. Dental pulp and root canal systems are soo complexed, they really capture my attention and cause me to want to master this study.

Please let me know your thoughts, directions I should look (out of state/in state, any contacts I should make, etc.

Thanks for reading this

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[endowhat]

Are you near a dental school?

 

[Endohopeful]

Yes, I spend time near both Dallas and Houston dental schools. I would NOT likely have a chance in Dallas. I graduated from Baylor, and didn't have the most amazing relationship with any endo faculty. They are a hard group to impress, understandably so.

 

[Tooth]

Hello everyone!

I've found myself more and more interested in completing an endo residency over my years of practice. I'll put together as much info as I can, in hopes of obtaining answers or guidance to start my endo journey.

First, I've always given high respect to endodontists, and their ability to treat some of the most complicated cases found in the dental field. I always tell my patients, on one hand you have dentistry, the other hand you have endodontics. I tell them it is very difficult to successfuly complete most endodontic cases, and if there is anyone on earth capable of achieving this high level of care they deserve, it would be an endodontist. I tell this to them sort of like, would you see your regular physician for heart surgery? Of course, this is explained to my patients as I get their endo referral form ready. I strongly feel that if you can perform very high quality endodontic treatment, then you could do anything in dentistry with high quality.

My background:
-Graduated, and live in Texas
-I've been out of school practicing for 3 years
-Have practiced in many different style settings of dentistry - medicaid, high pedo volume, high end cosmetics, family practice, traveling dentist for 3rds exts and many adult ortho cases (6monthsmiles & invisalign) as a "pseudo specialist". I've also opened more than 5 Cash/PPO dental offices at the same time, and grown them over years, with a partner by way of hiring/managing associates and staff.
-(not that this may matter for residency purposes) I've been a very high producer, while enjoying very high case acceptance % in private practice. I also do this following a moral/ethical code, and strive hard to never "overdiagnose" or cross any unacceptable boundaries in dentistry.
-Find myself constantly reading dental literature & forums for gain of a higher dental education.

-Graduated in bottom half of my class
-Part I and II board scores around an 80
-No research completed
-didn't excel in didactic courses, but did excel in all aspects of practicing general dentistry. outstanding clinical grades, quick to complete required credits, etc..
-I sort of found a balance between home life, exercise, and dental school that worked well for me. This did not work out the best for my grades.

I'm curious, and would appreciate any feedback here.
-What are my chances of getting in to an endo residency?
-What could I do to improve my chances of getting in to an endo residency?
-Am I just out of luck, and stand no chance of getting in?
-Would joining military give me a route to residency if other methods could not?

At the end of the day, I could continue on owning my own office(s), do well in life, retire early, and relax on the beach. OR, I could turn my burning desire to learn higher quality endo in to a career path that I may ultimately find more rewarding to me personally on a daily basis. This may sound cheesy, but if I were to come home every day knowing I completed many "beast like" Surgical, or Non Surgical endodontic treatments, I feel strongly that I would feel more accomplished in life. I don't want you to think RCTs is my only focus, no, I am highly interested in to study of the dental pulp tissue, and all aspects related to understanding and treating it. Dental pulp and root canal systems are soo complexed, they really capture my attention and cause me to want to master this study.

Please let me know your thoughts, directions I should look (out of state/in state, any contacts I should make, etc.

Thanks for reading this

Dude, just give it a try and see what happens. If it doesn't work out...so what. You seem to be doing well at what you're already doing and will be fine.

 

[Silent Cool]

Hello everyone!

I've found myself more and more interested in completing an endo residency over my years of practice. I'll put together as much info as I can, in hopes of obtaining answers or guidance to start my endo journey.

First, I've always given high respect to endodontists, and their ability to treat some of the most complicated cases found in the dental field. I always tell my patients, on one hand you have dentistry, the other hand you have endodontics. I tell them it is very difficult to successfuly complete most endodontic cases, and if there is anyone on earth capable of achieving this high level of care they deserve, it would be an endodontist. I tell this to them sort of like, would you see your regular physician for heart surgery? Of course, this is explained to my patients as I get their endo referral form ready. I strongly feel that if you can perform very high quality endodontic treatment, then you could do anything in dentistry with high quality.

My background:
-Graduated, and live in Texas
-I've been out of school practicing for 3 years
-Have practiced in many different style settings of dentistry - medicaid, high pedo volume, high end cosmetics, family practice, traveling dentist for 3rds exts and many adult ortho cases (6monthsmiles & invisalign) as a "pseudo specialist". I've also opened more than 5 Cash/PPO dental offices at the same time, and grown them over years, with a partner by way of hiring/managing associates and staff.
-(not that this may matter for residency purposes) I've been a very high producer, while enjoying very high case acceptance % in private practice. I also do this following a moral/ethical code, and strive hard to never "overdiagnose" or cross any unacceptable boundaries in dentistry.
-Find myself constantly reading dental literature & forums for gain of a higher dental education.

-Graduated in bottom half of my class
-Part I and II board scores around an 80
-No research completed
-didn't excel in didactic courses, but did excel in all aspects of practicing general dentistry. outstanding clinical grades, quick to complete required credits, etc..
-I sort of found a balance between home life, exercise, and dental school that worked well for me. This did not work out the best for my grades.

I'm curious, and would appreciate any feedback here.
-What are my chances of getting in to an endo residency?
-What could I do to improve my chances of getting in to an endo residency?
-Am I just out of luck, and stand no chance of getting in?
-Would joining military give me a route to residency if other methods could not?

At the end of the day, I could continue on owning my own office(s), do well in life, retire early, and relax on the beach. OR, I could turn my burning desire to learn higher quality endo in to a career path that I may ultimately find more rewarding to me personally on a daily basis. This may sound cheesy, but if I were to come home every day knowing I completed many "beast like" Surgical, or Non Surgical endodontic treatments, I feel strongly that I would feel more accomplished in life. I don't want you to think RCTs is my only focus, no, I am highly interested in to study of the dental pulp tissue, and all aspects related to understanding and treating it. Dental pulp and root canal systems are soo complexed, they really capture my attention and cause me to want to master this study.

Please let me know your thoughts, directions I should look (out of state/in state, any contacts I should make, etc.

Thanks for reading this

OP,

Why don't you just apply to every endo program in the country? You seem to have a sincere interest in the field and good reasons for doing it.

g'luck

 

[Endohopeful]

Thanks for the replies so far!

I considered applying to many. I considered this would be a good start for a honest answer on whether its worth trying, or info such as which schools would be a strong starting point considering my less than ideal numbers. I've come up with a few schools to start with based off of researching this forum, but everyone has a different "package" to consider.

Thanks again

 

[endowhat]

What you need to do is make your application look as stellar as possible. In other words, you can't change the stats that you already have but you can put new experiences on the application. I asked about dental schools because that is where you are going to make connections and have the most opportunity to improve your status. Teach, do research, get published, join the AAE, attend the AAE meetings, take as many high end CE course as you can ( not necessarily the most expensive ones), keep working and get lots of Endo experience if you can.

You need to show that you are absolutely dedicated to becoming an endodontist.

It also helps to make connections with influential mentors. They might be able to get you an interview and not necessarily at the school where they work. Once you get the interview, you are on your own. But all the stuff I wrote about above is just to get you that interview as well. You might not get into Baylor but I am positive Glickman could get you interviews elsewhere.

It takes a lot of work but it is possible. Also I would apply to several programs but not all. Programs want you to want them, not just to use a shotgun approach. Obviously they know that you will apply to more than just theirs but you should have some rhyme and reason for the schools applied to.

Good luck. It can be done.

 

[docdok]

Endohopeful

Applying to residency is a game just like anything else. When you apply your goal is simple; how do i get beyond the stack of applicants so i can get a shot at interview? Unfortunately, numbers are the best way to weed out stacks of applicants to get a group of people they want to interview.

Knowing this; and looks like your desire to go endo is very high you got couple options

1: Apply to a ton of schools. Simple as that since your stats are not strong you need to apply to a ton of schools to increase your chance of interview. If you get an interview that means they are interested and are ok with your stats....

2) If you don't want to go that route or are hard set on staying at texas endo residency and your chances are slim; if that is what you think then you should ask yourself what can i do to increase my chances? Here is the answer; internship....

Loma Linda, U of Florida, Oregon, San Antonio...i think there are a couple more....they have internships where you can be an intern for 1 year. If you get an internship at these places your chances of getting in the following year should be very very very very good.

However, i believe most don't pay you , and you got to pay tuition....so you have to ask yourself if it is worth it....

If you applied everywhere and you got no interviews then yes this is viable option.

If you don't want to apply everywhere and go anywhere they will take you; then this is viable option.

These are endo specific; so you will hang around with endo faculty, residents, sit in on lit review; etc you can gain insight on what endo residency is lilke and really figure out if its something you want to do or not.

Most important; you can ask for letters of recommendation from endo faculty where you interned at....that is worth a lot when you apply....

I believe most internships attract foreign students; but i don't see why that should deter you

Military route; that is bad idea....they still look at numbers; and if your stats aren't strong you need to make good connections and build a rep. Also, you will be getting letters from the endodontists in the military; all this takes time......do you want to do career in the military with the off chance of going endo??

Summary; internships are very common in the field of Oral Surgery; people who don't get in first time; or those with weaker stats usually go to internship route for a year; they prove themselves and most match at that place or they will match

If you want something and you will do anything to get it: guess what? you will most likely get it.

I know people who got into OS, Ortho with weak stats....some got lucky by applying everywhere and had strong letters, some who didn't get in didn't get deterred; they did internships; discussed options with faculty on what to do the following year; and they followed through. It was easy for them because that is what they wanted and they would do anything to get there.

Good luck you will be fine based only upon what you had posted...

 

[docdok]

I forgot;

Faculty at school ; teach....we had a faculty member when i was in dental school he got into endo that way....

 

[Endohopeful]

Endowhat and Docdok,

Thanks for these tips! This has really helped me get an idea and plan together for what will be my next step in his journey. I'll finalize my to do list soon, get together a stong letter of rec base, check out these internship programs, and get moving on them! I will also start with researching what all schools across the US should be included in my application group, not just Texas schools.

I currently have 2 endodontists who have been out practicing 15+ years each both willing and ready to write me a letter. One went to a Texas school, the other went to LSU. I'll be able to add 1 or 2 more from endodontists who have only been out a few years pretty soon. These 2 went to Texas schools.

I honestly dont mind going out of state if that's what it takes.

Side note: I was just reading a copy of Endodontic Practice US, boy that Dr John Hughes is something to aspire to eh? He built one hell of an endo group practice in southern arizona!

 

[endowhat]

Letters of rec from practicing endodontists are great but if you can work it so that you can get one or two from Endo faculty, especially a program director or department head, those would be more influential. Academics like academics. Most of them know each other and might trust their judgement over a practicing clinician.

 

[zmcblow]

It is great to see your passion for endo, however if things dont work out as you plan then why dont you incorporate more endo procedures in your practice? I will be specializing starting July but I do feel that I am losing my freedom of doing everything else and will be limited to one aspect of dentistry. You would have freedom to do everything else and can choose to do lots of endo.

 

[Endohopeful]

It is great to see your passion for endo, however if things dont work out as you plan then why dont you incorporate more endo procedures in your practice? I will be specializing starting July but I do feel that I am losing my freedom of doing everything else and will be limited to one aspect of dentistry. You would have freedom to do everything else and can choose to do lots of endo.

Hello! Congrats on your acceptance!

I do understand how it is easy to feel "limited", but it is the high quality of care in each endo case that drives me. If I could perform top notch treatment and walk away feeling like a hero, I would rather do that than crowns/fillings/exams, etc. There are also many pockets of population in Texas that are very limited on endodontists.

I don't think it makes much sense as a GP to get a microscope, ultrasonics, etc if you're only doing a few endo cases per week. I could be wrong here. Are there favorable prices on used endo specialty equipment that may allow me to take on more complicated cases?

 

[Endohopeful]

I will be attending a one week externship with the San Antonio Endodontics program soon! excited!

 

[docdok]

Endowhat and Docdok,

Thanks for these tips! This has really helped me get an idea and plan together for what will be my next step in his journey. I'll finalize my to do list soon, get together a stong letter of rec base, check out these internship programs, and get moving on them! I will also start with researching what all schools across the US should be included in my application group, not just Texas schools.

I currently have 2 endodontists who have been out practicing 15+ years each both willing and ready to write me a letter. One went to a Texas school, the other went to LSU. I'll be able to add 1 or 2 more from endodontists who have only been out a few years pretty soon. These 2 went to Texas schools.

I honestly dont mind going out of state if that's what it takes.

Side note: I was just reading a copy of Endodontic Practice US, boy that Dr John Hughes is something to aspire to eh? He built one hell of an endo group practice in southern arizona!

endohopeful

What is this endo practice us by dr john hughes? Is this a book?

 

[docdok]

I will be attending a one week externship with the San Antonio Endodontics program soon! excited!

Fantastic

San Antonio is one of the top programs in endo....

Enjoy the externship and ask a lot of questions and seek out a lot of advice.....San Antonio may not be your future place but there are a lot of places to land...a great start my friend

 

[docdok]

Hello! Congrats on your acceptance!

I do understand how it is easy to feel "limited", but it is the high quality of care in each endo case that drives me. If I could perform top notch treatment and walk away feeling like a hero, I would rather do that than crowns/fillings/exams, etc. There are also many pockets of population in Texas that are very limited on endodontists.

I don't think it makes much sense as a GP to get a microscope, ultrasonics, etc if you're only doing a few endo cases per week. I could be wrong here. Are there favorable prices on used endo specialty equipment that may allow me to take on more complicated cases?

Very valid point....

My philosophy and from those who practice endo its very simple

Only do endo if you love endo....

GenDen is also fantastic...one can be a GenDen and also do molar endo and any and all endo....

Nothing wrong with that...

Definitely wrong when someone goes to endo for

A: Money --- you can do just as well or better as GP..
B: Endo is fun --- yes endo is fun but if that is ones basis to do endo then they will be in for rude awakening when they decide to become endo......Endo exist to do the hard stuff!!!......if hard/challenging cases is your thing then do endo....but if your existence as endo is to do as many endo in a day without any understanding of the biological basis of endo then stay GP....one will be miserable

I'm a nobody so just my opinion..... =))

 

[Endohopeful]

endohopeful

What is this endo practice us by dr john hughes? Is this a book?

Docdok,

This is a subscription based endo booklet. It had a highlight of Dr. Hughes, and his group endo practice in Arizona. Figured some of you may have seen it, it was pretty good stuff.

 

[Endohopeful]

Many of you have mentioned research. What would be the best way for someone who's been out of school 3 years to get ideas/leads on starting research? I'm sure I could find an exciting subject to research that relates to endodontics.

Thanks!

 

[docdok]

Honestly

Out of school it is not practical. Also, they understand you have been out of school so that is not expected.

Instead of research you should look into maybe doing a table clinic presentation at a local dental society meeting, or any large organization meeting.

It doesn't have to be some fancy research based, instead you can pick a subject that is easy to do out in private practice. You can maybe team up with your endodontist, pick a subject in endo lets say

Ergonomic advantage of using microscope vs regular loupes

It's cheesy but if you take some time to research, survey etc you can write it up and it can be an interesting subject....

Again, you are not trying to win the noble prize....but just showing genuine interest in the field.

Also join the AAE start reading journal articles, peruse the area for ideas on subject matter that is hot in endo etc