Please help! Got my Board scores...

[stranded]

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Hi everybody,

I need some major help and advice from anybody who can help! I'm still vomiting and so disappointed in myself--I got my scores recently and barely broke 200. I've always dreamed of being a surgeon, and now I feel like it's never going to happen. 🙁

I've been browsing these forums for a while, and I did find some advice here and there about what to do next, but I need a concrete plan. What exactly should I do to make sure I can match in surgery? I'm still an MSIII, but I go to one of those schools with no grades, no rankings, no AOA.

I feel so lost and helpless, and any advice would be greatly appreciated. Do I even have a chance anymore?

 

[mcindoe]

Hi everybody,

I need some major help and advice from anybody who can help! I'm still vomiting and so disappointed in myself--I got my scores recently and barely broke 200. I've always dreamed of being a surgeon, and now I feel like it's never going to happen. 🙁

I've been browsing these forums for a while, and I did find some advice here and there about what to do next, but I need a concrete plan. What exactly should I do to make sure I can match in surgery? I'm still an MSIII, but I go to one of those schools with no grades, no rankings, no AOA.

I feel so lost and helpless, and any advice would be greatly appreciated. Do I even have a chance anymore?

don't worry.

trust me.

 

[kinetic redux]

Short Answer: Yes.

Long Answer: Stop reading these forums. Seriously. If you read these forums for advice on things, you'd get the idea that 98% of people have all honors, research, scored in the top 99th percentile on Step I and II, perform some community service on the weekends, and helped set up some charity clinic in Bogota for fun. There is a cut off for Surgery, but it's like the 85th percentile, which is something like 180 or so. That's the screening filter they use during residency applications. (I'm going to get a whole lot of people who fit the previous description who are going to be all, "NUH UH!! Mass General and Stanford have higher cutoffs!!!")

Just because you're not going to get into freakin' Duke with a 200, doesn't mean you won't be a surgeon. Get out of the mentality that not matching at the top 5 programs in the country means not matching at all. If you want to be a surgeon, apply to reasonable programs, apply to more programs if you feel deficient, be more open to all geographical locations, and take hard looks at community programs rather than university programs. If all else fails, get in via a preliminary year, knock their socks off, and then get into a PGY-2 spot. (These are not easy to do. I'm a sucky sucky applicant and I can't even follow my own advice, so I'm not pretending it's a cakewalk, but it is POSSIBLE.) TONS of people drop out of Surgery all the time after they realize they hate the lifestyle or it wasn't what they expected or some other crap, so that's not a problem.

Above all, get your information from an objective source. Medical students, by nature, are jerk-offs. Half of them are insecure and walk around talking smack about how awesome they are in an poor effort to intimidate you. You all know the people who sit around peeing in their scrubs because they're so eager to casually drop the fact that they got their interview from UCLA last week. ("So how about the Chargers? They're doing surprising--" "YEAH, speaking of the Chargers, they're in California! You know what else is in California? UCLA! Did I mention that I got an interview there?") Go to your dean's office and/or surgery department to get some advice, objective evaluations of your chances, and places to apply to.

P.S. Look at the interview thread. Now look at the rejection thread. Apparently, only like THREE people have been rejected from ANY programs. And those programs were U.Penn and BWH. Riiiiight! Get the picture?

 

[Idiopathic]

There is a cut off for Surgery, but it's like the 85th percentile, which is something like 180 or so. That's the screening filter they use during residency applications. (I'm going to get a whole lot of people who fit the previous description who are going to be all, "NUH UH!! Mass General and Stanford have higher cutoffs!!!")

I really think you should take the exam before making stupid comments on it. 180 is most definitely not the 85th percentile, since it isn't even passing!

This last year, 182 was passing, which equated to about the 10th percentile. The mean was around 217, which equals the 50th percentile, and 85th percentile was around 240. The cutoff is probably much lower than 85th percentile, however, for most programs.

Dont lose faith, stranded, keep at it and do well on your rotations...things will fall into place.

 

[kinetic]

I've taken Steps I-III and passed them all, *****. I said "something like," ****** -- that's hardly laying down something as a clear deliniated standard. I stand by my advice, idiot boy notwithstanding. By the way, "passing" is not the 10th percentile.

(How's that for the first post-ban lifting post? Yeah.)

EDIT: On visiting the USMLE web page, percentile reporting was discontinued in 1999. This was due to the variance in percentile correlation to USMLE scores on a year-to-year basis. I was mistaken on one point -- I mistook the two-digit report now used for a percentile (but I stand by the numbers); however, I stand by the fact that passing is not the 10th percentile.

 

[Idiopathic]

Are you kidding me? How many people fail, tool? How about 10 percent or so. So the 10th percentile and above pass. Now, if you are talking about the two-digit score, which is most definitely not a percentile, you are still not even close. 180 is not passing, so it would be below 75. It wasnt passing when you took it either, bro. Do your research.

 

[kinetic]

I did, "bro." I added it to my above post. Oh, yeah, don't "bro" me.

 

[imtiaz]

try to do better on step 2 if you really want to go to a competetive program. otherwise, breaking 200 is okay i mean you'll end up matching somewhere from what i hear. don't worry about it.

 

[Idiopathic]

So what is passing?

What percentage of students pass? 90+?

So then would the person at the 10th percentile be passing?

The answer: yes

It really isnt that difficult once you think it through, if you understand statistics.

However, 180 is still nowhere near 85 percentile or 85 two-digit, and it still isnt passing.

To the OP...again, just keep with it. Try and not pay attention to those who say you dont have a chance. At least kinetic and I are on the same page there.

 

[kinetic]

You know what's awesome? People who are so anal that they read a post about advice to someone who is wondering about how to approach getting into a surgical residency and get all fixated on what constitutes passing and failing on the USMLEs based on a soft estimation. You know when I mentioned people who wet their scrubs because they want to show off? You've just seen one in action.

kinetic: ...so, that would be something like 85th percentile ....
Idiopathic: NO! That's not right! I've spent exactly 90% of my waking hours over the past 10 years doing analysis of all reports of USMLE scores and have the results in Excel format, as well as an alternate pdf document and a PowerPoint presentation for anyone interested.
kinetic: What's your point?
Idiopathic: Just that I'm awesome.

 

[kinetic]

Oh, by the way, since I'm also a stubborn jackass, more info from the USMLE website:

A 75 two-digit score is always passing.

 

[Idiopathic]

Oh, by the way, since I'm also a stubborn jackass, more info from the USMLE website:

A 75 two-digit score is always passing.

Of course it is. 75 is passing, but it is not a percentile. 180 does not equal passing, it does not equal "85" which you arbitrarily assigned it, and it is certainly no ones cutoff for anything, except retaking the exam. Dont give people false information when you should be busy practicing medicine.

 

[kinetic]

Some things you should note:

a) I already said that I had mistaken the two-digit number for a percentage.

b) I can't practice medicine because I'm unemployed.

c) You're a ******. You derailed this thread for the sole purpose of pointing out that you know more about USMLE scores than me. You know how sad that is? And you're still blathering on and on about it. Moreover, you came running out of the gates like a ***** with the statement that "I should take the test before I talk about it." Why don't you let the stiffy in your pants relax now?

 

[Idiopathic]

I think I speak for us all when I say that I am glad you are back.

 

[firebody]

I think I speak for us all when I say that I am glad you are back.

*nods head*

 

[Payne]

Sorry to distract from all the chest-thumping and "Yeah, I know you are but what am I?" statements, but to get back to the original question.

So, you didn't set the world on fire with your Step 1 scores. Don't let it deter you if you really discover that you love surgery. It is easy to forget about it reading our posts here, but surgery is not really about aspiring surgeons but about sick people. If you are going to be a good surgeon that helps people and their families when they really need it--that is the most important thing.

A low Step I score will make things a little more challenging when it comes time to apply, but you have time between now and then to do other things to strengthen your application. If you kick ass on your surgery rotation and sub_I's, many sins will be overlooked.

Personal confession: I had a not-so-great Step 1 score. In terms of interviews for residency, I didn't get all of the places I would have chosen ideally, but have gotten plenty, some from very competitive programs.

By the way, the American College of Surgeons did a study recently that found no correlation between Step I and performance in surgery residency. There was a correlation between Absite scores and performance and a weak correlation between Step II and performance.

Programs use Step I because it is an easy, brainless way to compare candidates from different medical schools. That doesn't mean that it really predicts how you will be as a surgeon. Taking a written science exam and being a great surgeon are different animals entirely.

You can overcome a weak Step I score. You will have to work a little harder (but if you are a surgeon type, you will always be flogging yourself to work a little harder anyway). Hang in there.