wanttobedds

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May 9, 2008
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Okay I am so confused and depressed. It seems that I have gotten caught up in something that no future DDS has or should face. I will try to explain my case so that maybe someone can help me, although I am not optimistic. I will also include some details so that you get a better understanding of where I am coming from, and please excuse me in not including some details as it will compromise my security. I also want to thank the people who actually read this and respond to it.

I was born in Russia before the revolution and my family was lucky enough to be able to migrate to Canada. I ended up receiving my Canadian citizenship at 14 and moved to the US legally (Dad business). I attended high school and like many kids got into some minor trouble. Well long story short that little trouble ended up getting me rejected for a US green card and I became illegal. I really didn’t know what to do since I was 17 and my whole family had gotten their stuff except me. What was I going to do, go back to Canada by myself? We were all living in the Midwest at the time, so I decided to move to the west coast to be apart from my family so that I don’t involve them in illegal act and once I fixed things I could live by them side by side. I took some community courses and after about 22 credits ended up applying to a very good university and I lied about my status, where I graduated high school, ect. Its crazy but I was accepted, I got into a very hard and competitive branch of engineering. I ended up graduating with a 3.8 GPA. I also managed to get elected as the treasurer one year and a vice president of the honor society the next. I also did about 4 years of volunteer work consistently. Now I want to apply for dental school but here is the problem, I am going to have to lie once again and hope that I slip by like the first time. What I am really scared of is that almost all the schools require that students fill out a FASFA form but if I fill one out they will find out. I did it once back in collage and they wanted me to come in and bring them more info. I am also in the process of getting legal (slim chance through the fam) but that’s going to take almost 5 years. So here are my questions.

1) I have a very good credit here in the US, in fact I have about $25000 in undergrad private loans, I even have my own car financed in my name as well as credit cards. Do you think I can get away with it? Can I just tell them that I already have my financing in order and that I don’t need to fill out a FASFA form? Will private lenders give me a large loan like that without checking with the school to see if I have filled out a FASFA form?

2) What will happen to me if I make it through the program and right before the state licenses me they find out? Can I move to Canada at that point (transfer student) or if I complete the 4 year and they find out take the Canadian state board test and start practice?

3) If they find out here **** hits the fan will Canadian schools know that I lied and tried to attend US schools and was caught?

4) What do you think if I apply to certain Canadian schools and land an interview, can I have my brother do my interview in my name, if he has my ID with his pic in it? Do they fingerprint you before the interview? ( I don’t mind going back to Canada alone knowing I am for sure excepted)

General question:

5) If I was to start prepping for the DAT today do you think its possible to for me to apply this summer?

6) Can I apply to dental schools without taking the DAT yet? I mean the app process starts in May can I apply and take the test in July and still make it?

What would you do if you were in my place and you liked the US and all your family was here? I am so burned out and cant study for the DAT knowing what challenges I face. I mean how optimistic am I suppose to be. Dental school aside I feel like a failer, I am working as a construction worker just to make ends and I have an engineering degree.

Once again thanks in advance for those who actually read my long long thread.
 
OP
W

wanttobedds

10+ Year Member
May 9, 2008
2
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Pre-Dental
Okay I am so confused and depressed. It seems that I have gotten caught up in something that no future DDS has or should face. I will try to explain my case so that maybe someone can help me, although I am not optimistic. I will also include some details so that you get a better understanding of where I am coming from, and please excuse me in not including some details as it will compromise my security. I also want to thank the people who actually read this and respond to it.

I was born in .Russia. and my family was lucky enough to be able to migrate to Canada. I ended up receiving my Canadian citizenship at 14 and moved to the US legally (Dad business). I attended high school and like many kids got into some minor trouble. Well long story short that little trouble ended up getting me rejected for a US green card and I became illegal. I really didn’t know what to do since I was 17 and my whole family had gotten their stuff except me. What was I going to do, go back to Canada by myself? We were all living in the Midwest at the time, so I decided to move to the west coast to be apart from my family so that I don’t involve them in illegal act and once I fixed things I could live by them side by side. I took some community courses and after about 22 credits ended up applying to a very good university and I lied about my status, where I graduated high school, ect. Its crazy but I was accepted, I got into a very hard and competitive branch of engineering. I ended up graduating with a 3.8 GPA. I also managed to get elected as the treasurer one year and a vice president of the honor society the next. I also did about 4 years of volunteer work consistently. Now I want to apply for dental school but here is the problem, I am going to have to lie once again and hope that I slip by like the first time. What I am really scared of is that almost all the schools require that students fill out a FASFA form but if I fill one out they will find out. I did it once back in collage and they wanted me to come in and bring them more info. I am also in the process of getting legal (slim chance through the fam) but that’s going to take almost 5 years. So here are my questions.

1) I have a very good credit here in the US, in fact I have about $25000 in undergrad private loans, I even have my own car financed in my name as well as credit cards. Do you think I can get away with it? Can I just tell them that I already have my financing in order and that I don’t need to fill out a FASFA form? Will private lenders give me a large loan like that without checking with the school to see if I have filled out a FASFA form?

2) What will happen to me if I make it through the program and right before the state licenses me they find out? Can I move to Canada at that point (transfer student) or if I complete the 4 year and they find out take the Canadian state board test and start practice?

3) If they find out here **** hits the fan will Canadian schools know that I lied and tried to attend US schools and was caught?

4) What do you think if I apply to certain Canadian schools and land an interview, can I have my brother do my interview in my name, if he has my ID with his pic in it? Do they fingerprint you before the interview? ( I don’t mind going back to Canada alone knowing I am for sure excepted)

General question:

5) If I was to start prepping for the DAT today do you think its possible to for me to apply this summer?

6) Can I apply to dental schools without taking the DAT yet? I mean the app process starts in May can I apply and take the test in July and still make it?

What would you do if you were in my place and you liked the US and all your family was here? I am so burned out and cant study for the DAT knowing what challenges I face. I mean how optimistic am I suppose to be. Dental school aside I feel like a failer, I am working as a construction worker just to make ends and I have an engineering degree.

.Once again thanks in advance for those who actually read my long long thread..
 

capisce?

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I'll save the moral speech that is sure to come from others.

It's going to be caught at some point. Why go through everything and then lose it all? Straighten out your status, even if you have to wait 5 years. Dental school isn't going anywhere.

Would you have tried to pull this off if you were in Iran? Somehow I think the answer is no. After all, that is where you said you were born before changing it to Russia.
 

Bruinlove

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5) If I was to start prepping for the DAT today do you think its possible to for me to apply this summer?

6) Can I apply to dental schools without taking the DAT yet? I mean the app process starts in May can I apply and take the test in July and still make it?

What would you do if you were in my place and you liked the US and all your family was here? I am so burned out and cant study for the DAT knowing what challenges I face. I mean how optimistic am I suppose to be. Dental school aside I feel like a failer, I am working as a construction worker just to make ends and I have an engineering degree.

Once again thanks in advance for those who actually read my long long thread.
First of all, you shouldn't lie about your status when you apply and you don't have to. Most of private schools do not care if you are illegal as long as you pay for the tuition. There was a Korean illegal immigrant who got accepted to Case Western. (It was on a well-known Korean newspaper.) On the article, he told his story about getting rejected by most of the schools that he applied because of his status. But, any smart person could find out that he was rejected only by public schools that supposedly prefer state resident or other legal citizens. So, I assume he was making his story seem even worse to get more donation by readers. Anyways, you have chance to get into many private schools as long as you have good academic standing.

Yes. You can do well on DAT by studying hard for 2 months.
 

Blarelli

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I don't think you can lie your way through the admissions process. You were able to 'lie' your way into college because they just don't care enough to check. I believe that every dental school does background checks, and your residency status will come up.
On top of that, using a fake or stolen social security number, filing taxes and signing them that the information is correct, and any number of other things you may have done are felonies. If ethics are as important in the admissions process as I have been led to believe, that could play a major role.
 

gijohn529

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Since the crime you committed was when you were 17, you can try to ask the court to exsponge the conviction which conceals it so that no one will see it. I think that would be a good start... I'm not sure how you would go from there. You can always get married to a US citizen.
 

ElectraOnAzalea

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just apply as a Canadian citizen. Don't a lot of applicants do that anyway? Why would you need to lie about it? That whole elaborate lying process will NEVER turn out to be good. You're going to get caught up somewhere. Just DON'T DO IT. It is definitely not worth the risk.
 

ummjoey

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i agree with Bruinlove and Blarelli. i wouldnt lie or do anything unethical.

sorry, i usually try to post and help people out, but i really dont know enough about citizenship......you seem like someone who deserves a fair chance of getting into dental school. hopefully, the more experience posters can comment on your situation.

like Bruinlove said. you can apply in may, then take your dat in june/july and submit the scores to each school.

best of luck.
 

HuyetKiem

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What would you do if you were in my place and you liked the US and all your family was here? I am so burned out and cant study for the DAT knowing what challenges I face. I mean how optimistic am I suppose to be. Dental school aside I feel like a failer, I am working as a construction worker just to make ends and I have an engineering degree.
Find a girl and get married. :D:D
 

AGAPE4U

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Solve the root of the problem, you don't have to lie. Get an adult high school diploma, basically it is an equivalency to high school. Go to you local high school and speak with an academic councilor. Best wishes,
 

doc toothache

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Nothing like starting an ethical profession with a touch of deceit. Making a questionable decision as as a minor is quite different than making one as an adult. There are several issues that need to be addressed. 1.You have a record that had a direct effect on your legal status. 2. You are here illegally. Fafsa may be the least of your problem. Some, if not all schools, require or will run a criminal background check and guess what? What you should do is: 1. Look in the yellow pages and find yourself two attorney; one to resolve the issue of the record and since you were a minor maybe the record can be expunged and the other, to resolve your illegal status in the U.S.. 2. consider applying to ds once the above is resolved.
 

Blin

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It might be worth a few hundred bucks just to sit down with a high quality immigration attorney.

Aside---I hope nobody blasts you because it sounds like you've had some tough choices to make that most people wont ever have to consider. As an American officer in the AF I saw how challenging the immigration process can be, even if you do it correctly, and even if you hold a respected position in the government.

However, the thing is that sooner or later something is going to not fit right with big brother. Personally, I see that the first time you try to file taxes without a tax ID number, life is going to get ugly.

I processed all of my wife's paperwork for immigration. I am not a lawyer, but have been working for the government for half my life. Having gone through immigration, I can say that it is the most screwed up institution I have ever seen. Many of their employees are undertrained, and many are bitter towards their customers. When I did my wife's paperwork, I walked in with copies of the applicable US code, and explained our situation with triple-source documentation, and even then I got responses like, "Well, I'm not sure about that, it may not be right...hmmm."

When it comes to entereing/staying in the country illegally, they take a pretty harsh stance. There was a local politician in CA recently that didn't know she was not a US citizen because her family came here when she was young. She voted in an election, and USCIS subsequently tried to have her removed from the country and deported to Mexico for illegally voting. I dont know the end of that story though.

Anyway, if they denied you before all of this, the chances of getting cleared after all you've said might be pretty slim. The best possible outsome is probably that you finish school and move to another country before beginning work. If you end up getting loans and dont pay them, the US may seek to extradite you and throw you in jail.

Perhaps you can just apply to school in Canada. It doesn't sound like you'll be working in the US any way you go about your problem.

Edit- even if you get married to a us citizen, its probably not going to help. you'll have the same standard as if your family lives here. Talk to a lawyer.

Anyway, good luck. Disclaimer - None of this is advice(legal or otherwise), just one person's opinion of your situation.

For immigration info, perhaps the best site is www.visajourney.com. You'll get better info there about your situation.
 

Leine4

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Take care of your personal problems first then go about thinks the right way. It will be more rewarding in the end. Plus, all the lying is unethical....don't do it.
 

MarkND

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Sorry, seems like a very awkward situation to be in. My advise to you; don't give up on your dream. If you can, go back to Canada where you are a citizen and apply for their dental schools. After 4 yeas you are a dentist and you could legally apply for visa and get a waiver from immigration for your prior felony. As far as I know, you will go to the immigration judge and present your case and he/she will decide whether to grant you a waiver or not. In most cases since you have not committed any crimes for at least 7-10 years and your status as an educated person and someone who has changed his ways for the better, you could be granted the waiver.

I know someone with similar but not exactly to your situation. That person is in medical school now! So, follow your dream and DON'T GIVE UP!
 

doc3232

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just apply as a Canadian citizen. Don't a lot of applicants do that anyway? Why would you need to lie about it? That whole elaborate lying process will NEVER turn out to be good. You're going to get caught up somewhere. Just DON'T DO IT. It is definitely not worth the risk.
Good point, you seem like your smart enough to kill the DAT.
Apply as an international.
As long as your one of those people who actually deserved a 3.8 (as in not an easy school/major) then you will get in.
 

alanan84

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Honestly, your questions are totally ridiculous and ignorant. What's your deal with lying man? You want to lie about your residency status, you want your brother to be you in an interview, what else? Did you seriously ask if they fingerprint you at the interview? You are paranoid! To answer your questions, think about what you're doing. You've made some dumb decisions in the past, ok, everyone does that. Learn, change, and move on. Stop the trend of stupid decisions. Seriously, do this the right way.
 

Selso2109

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Good luck with everything, just don't try to fix old mistakes by making new ones.
 
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doc toothache

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Good Job!
 

KinKs

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I have to agree with a couple of people here. You seem to be forgetting that you a legal Canadian resident and can also attend Canadian schools. If your gpa is really near 3.8, you should be able to attend U of T or guelph or Western in Canada.

Also like someone said, every year there are tonnes of Canadian applicants. I myself was one and was successful. However, at some point you will need to get a student visa if you are a permanent resident. You are a Canadian citizen so you dont even have to go through that. I think you pay 100 Sevis fee and you are good to go.

If I were you however, i would apply to every single school in Canada.
 

WolverineTrojan

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Honestly, your questions are totally ridiculous and ignorant. What's your deal with lying man? You want to lie about your residency status, you want your brother to be you in an interview, what else? Did you seriously ask if they fingerprint you at the interview? You are paranoid! To answer your questions, think about what you're doing. You've made some dumb decisions in the past, ok, everyone does that. Learn, change, and move on. Stop the trend of stupid decisions. Seriously, do this the right way.

Who are you to pass judgement on him? Have you been in his situation? Are you experiencing what hes going thru? I know if I had gone thru all that crap that I would be just as paranoid, if not more, if I feel like my career and future is on the line. Im not excusing his lies or saying his choices were warranted, but he came here for advice and this is what we do here. Dont bash on someone who is experiencing hardship.
 

Ninster

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Who are you to pass judgement on him? Have you been in his situation? Are you experiencing what hes going thru? I know if I had gone thru all that crap that I would be just as paranoid, if not more, if I feel like my career and future is on the line. Im not excusing his lies or saying his choices were warranted, but he came here for advice and this is what we do here. Dont bash on someone who is experiencing hardship.
Totally agree with you.
 

WolverineTrojan

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First off, I want to say that I am truly disappointed with a lot of the posts I read. I joined SDN because I thought of it as an informative site with members who can provide constructive criticism.

Secondly in response to some posts here:

I'll save the moral speech that is sure to come from others.
Would you have tried to pull this off if you were in Iran? Somehow I think the answer is no. After all, that is where you said you were born before changing it to Russia.
>>That last comment was completely irrelevant. Who cares where he was born. Its up to him what to disclose for confidentiality purposes. If thats all you focused on...you missed the entire point of his post.

I don't know how much trouble you got in when you were younger, but how bad could it have been that you were never able to reapply for your green card? That story doesn't make sense, or you left bad things out. And if the things you did were that bad, then perhaps you shouldn't be a healthcare professional. Good luck.

The type of scams you are considering running are ridiculous.
>>wanttobedds, dont let anyone criticize your drive to do something you love. Just because you had a bad past does not equate to you being a bad person. Selso, that bolded part of your comment is whats absurd. This person is trying to take corrective measures for previous faults. A poor choice made 10 years ago isn't indicative of how he will lead his life as a professional.


Now in response to your post wanttobedds, that was the most intense post I have ever read anywhere and I can only imagine the stress you are dealing with and I commend you on trying to find positivity out of a negative situation. But first and foremost...BREATHE! Just because life takes a turn for the worst, doesnt mean all hope is lost. You can correct this. Everything will be ok, it's all about how you approach your problems.

Ok, so you made some really poor choices, but everyone is guilty of this at some point. Its how you respond to these choices that defines your character. Im not gonna jump on the bandwagon and say shame on you for lying for so long, because it is more than obvious that you have acknowledged what you did wrong, and you are caught in a vicious cycle. Youre here clearly for advice for what to do and not judgement for what you have done. You got into some legal trouble...ok whatever, life isnt picture perfect, I guess some perfect people on here are forgetting that. They are the ones who are ignorant, and not you, for not realizing that life isnt easy for everyone, some people actually have to deal with real problems--ones which have no easy decisions.


For the more minor things:

1) I have a very good credit here in the US, in fact I have about $25000 in undergrad private loans, I even have my own car financed in my name as well as credit cards. Do you think I can get away with it? Can I just tell them that I already have my financing in order and that I don't need to fill out a FASFA form? Will private lenders give me a large loan like that without checking with the school to see if I have filled out a FASFA form?

>> I know you can finance your education thru certain private loans without a FAFSA form. There are numerous places that do not need a FAFSA in order to determine if you are eligible. Google it, youll get your sites. Call up banks and ask to speak to some loan officers. But I do believe youre jumping the gun on this one. First, solve your legal problems, get into dental school, THEN worry about how you will finance education.

2) What will happen to me if I make it through the program and right before the state licenses me they find out? Can I move to Canada at that point (transfer student) or if I complete the 4 year and they find out take the Canadian state board test and start practice?

>> You dont want to get to this stage. I agree with MarkND, Blin, and Kinks, FIX this FIRST and then move on from there.

3) If they find out here **** hits the fan will Canadian schools know that I lied and tried to attend US schools and was caught?
>> Not sure sorry. Again, dont even put yourself in this situation.

4) What do you think if I apply to certain Canadian schools and land an interview, can I have my brother do my interview in my name, if he has my ID with his pic in it? Do they fingerprint you before the interview? ( I don't mind going back to Canada alone knowing I am for sure excepted)

>> I REALLY wanted to respond to this. DEFINITELY do not even fathom this idea. Look, you are in a hole, do not keep digging it and making it deeper for yourself. I guarantee you that dental schools will appreciate honesty over someone who is so worried about their current situation that they resort to escalating it and perpetuating lies. If you get an interview, YOU GO. Leave it at that and then you wont have to freak out about whether or not your brother doing your interview will fly. I guarantee you it wont! Plus, doing this would completely destroy your chances of ever getting into schools in the future. This profession relies heavily on ethics, how will it look to a committee that you tried to "fix" this by sending your brother to pretend to be you? Scrath this idea. Its a lot more understandable to consider an applicant who made poor choices and is making amends than someone who is making a choice that could lead to expulsion from applying.

General question:

5) If I was to start prepping for the DAT today do you think its possible to for me to apply this summer?

>> Absolutely, I studied a month and a half and I got in. You have a 3.8 GPA and an engineering degree. You are more than capable of attacking this test and scoring well. Buy the KAPLAN prep book, and the top score CD and you are straight. Set your problems aside and focus. If you dont think this is possible, deal with legal troubles first, you can take the DAT at anytime, its not like MCATs. Also, I believe your scores are good for 3 years, so if you choose to take them now, you can use them later.

6) Can I apply to dental schools without taking the DAT yet? I mean the app process starts in May can I apply and take the test in July and still make it?

>> You can apply now and send in the scores later. This is completely fine and is in fact what I did. Processing time for your app is 4-6wks. You can have it in and study for the DATs while its being processed. Im not suggesting this for now, but this is something you can keep in mind in the future for when you do apply.

What would you do if you were in my place and you liked the US and all your family was here? I am so burned out and cant study for the DAT knowing what challenges I face. I mean how optimistic am I suppose to be. Dental school aside I feel like a failer, I am working as a construction worker just to make ends and I have an engineering degree.
>> Why do you think you are a failure? Because you took the initiative to go to school and pursue an engineering degree when you could have easily committed more felonies and ended up in jail? Why? Because you are struggling while working an honest job to pay back loans you used to finance an education? You are not a failure. You are bettering yourself and your life by making up for a crappy situation when you were 17. Accept your mistakes and move on. I do not usually hear of former felons who have changed their life for the good and are applying to dental school. Nothing about this is defined as a failure. Be strong. Stay positive, be honest. Patience is everything. You go thru hard times to get to where you want to be. MarkND is right. You have a dream! Stay persistent. Believe it or not what you are trying to accomplish can be done, just go about doing it in the right way. Its up to you how messy you allow your situation to get. Dont let people get in your ear about this and that.

>>>>There are some positive points here. You can legally fix things...its just gonna cost a lot of time and money.

If you really want to apply to US schools forget all this lying crap. Get in touch with some attorneys. Seek legal advice before you do anything! Even if you have to postpone applying its better that you do so and apply with no weight over your shoulders relating to whether or not they "find out." You said that you are currently in the process of becoming a legal immigrant...have you considered applying as a refugee? I dont know if that is still a possibility for you. Techinically, your country should have been war torn during the time you left but I believe these applications are processed a lot faster than those that simply come thru immigration services. Theyre looked at with a higher priority.

I agree with some previous posts that you should HIGHLY consider trying to get your conviction expunged. Dealing with the conviction may make it easier to apply for a visa. I know that typically after 7 years, your record is wiped clean. This may not apply to you though because, well, youre illegal, but it cant hurt right? I think you have to contact the court you got the charge from.

Dont stress, life is full of hurdles. Just cause youve tripped over a few doesnt mean you have to give up on the race, no matter what anyone says.

Best of luck to you! =) Plase keep me posted on your situation.
 
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SugarNaCl

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LOL. I really want to be as sympathetic as these posters, but I just can't bring myself to be. First thing that bothered me is where you said "what was I supposed to do, go live in Canada by myself when my family was in the midwest US?" But then you go on to say you moved to the West Coast. If your family was the reason, you would have stayed in the midwest and THEN I could have understood that. Going back to Canada would have been just as easy as moving to the west coast. I know because I spent the first 22 years of my life near the US/Canada border. They are fairly lax.

Then you ask questions about your brother interviewing for you etc. I have no great advice for you and I apologize for that. If you had half as much common sense as you do book smarts you wouldn't ask the majority of questions you did. My advice... be honest and suffer the consequences. Your immature actions may have cost you your future but you were young, so lets just hope someone out there understands. We have all done some things we wish we would not have. The important thing is you stop NOW... and grow up!

Overall, if I wanted advice on how to get an A, I would ask you first. If I wanted advice on how to live in the real world, I would ask you last. Ever want to shake someone? ;) Now you know how I feel about this thread.
 
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