Please help me negotiate the best Heartland contract possible

[ToothSlooth69]

Hello! I'm a current GPR resident entertaining the idea of working at a Heartland office for 1 year. The goal is to take advantage as much as possible by learning new procedures, taking their CE, and getting comfortable working 2-3 ops.

My plan is to buy my own office within 2 years, so I'm trying to get as good and fast as possible.

Im looking to learn how to make the contract as profitable/advantageous for me. How far can I push the limits with sign on bonuses, daily guarentee, relocation assistance, etc? How do I negotiate that draw?

I think I'm a qualified candidate, I'll have placed ~70 implants, 50+ endo, comfortable with surgical ext's, c&b, etc. So I would like to think I have some leverage.
Thank you all for helping!

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[faded2122]

You can negotiate whatever you want. Here is the cons with salaries Heartland though (at least when I was there 4 years ago). They paid 25% of collections. When you first get hired, you will have a waiting period on being credentialed with insurances. Your collections will be low for the first few months as you first start and will generally catch up as months follow and you start producing, seeing more patients.

With that said, if you negotiate a higher base salary, say for example 180k, that pays you 15k a month pretax. That means you must collect for heartland 60k a month. Any collections over 60k a month would be a bonus (3 pay period months you have to collect more). Any collections below this puts you in the red and you must collect much more than 60k in future months to allow you to climb out the red and have bonus opportunities. You will always get the $15k a month tho. So especially in the first month while being credentialed and getting you feet wet, say you only collect 30k. The following month you would need to collect 90k for that to balance out (or cover your base salary you negotiated at 180k).

So some doctors negotiate a lower base so they always bonus, as they know they will collect a lot and always cover there base and have bonus potential. Personal preference. Just remember, insurance pays when they feel like it and it could taken month or two to collect on a crown. And if the office is heavy insurance and has poor collection/production percentage that will affect your pay directly.

This was my experience with the company but maybe things have changed, correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Colastick]

You have to feel the vibe first.

Depends on how badly they want you and how hard/easy it would be for them to find someone else.

Talk to them first. Convince them you are a great fit and get them to like you. You can def negotiate but dont be overly aggressive because that can leave a bad taste.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

I think that you have the right motivations and a good plan for yourself, but you can easily accomplish the same thing at a private practice while getting paid 35% adjusted production. Why limit yourself to 25% collections? That’s pitiful. I’ve heard they don’t negotiate from that 25%.

 

[ToothSlooth69]

I think that you have the right motivations and a good plan for yourself, but you can easily accomplish the same thing at a private practice while getting paid 35% adjusted production. Why limit yourself to 25% collections? That’s pitiful. I’ve heard they don’t negotiate from that 25%.

I've gotten a lot of interest from private offices, but I've been told 30-32% production so far. Still much better than 25%, I agree. They seem much less willing to mentor/expand my skills without partnering with them.

My primary interest with Heartland is they seem very interested in building up my skillset, and my thoughts are it might be worth taking an income hit for one year to earn more profitable procedures which would pay off when I am an owner

 

[ToothSlooth69]

You can negotiate whatever you want. Here is the cons with salaries Heartland though (at least when I was there 4 years ago). They paid 25% of collections. When you first get hired, you will have a waiting period on being credentialed with insurances. Your collections will be low for the first few months as you first start and will generally catch up as months follow and you start producing, seeing more patients.

With that said, if you negotiate a higher base salary, say for example 180k, that pays you 15k a month pretax. That means you must collect for heartland 60k a month. Any collections over 60k a month would be a bonus (3 pay period months you have to collect more). Any collections below this puts you in the red and you must collect much more than 60k in future months to allow you to climb out the red and have bonus opportunities. You will always get the $15k a month tho. So especially in the first month while being credentialed and getting you feet wet, say you only collect 30k. The following month you would need to collect 90k for that to balance out (or cover your base salary you negotiated at 180k).

So some doctors negotiate a lower base so they always bonus, as they know they will collect a lot and always cover there base and have bonus potential. Personal preference. Just remember, insurance pays when they feel like it and it could taken month or two to collect on a crown. And if the office is heavy insurance and has poor collection/production percentage that will affect your pay directly.

This was my experience with the company but maybe things have changed, correct me if I’m wrong.

That is very interesting, thank you for taking the time to reply. I was originally going to ask for a guarenteed 180-200k, but maybe with the draw that would be a bad idea, especially if I want to eventually leave but am in the red. Do you think it might be a better plan to have a lower base (140k) and ask for a higher bonus to compensate? Really trying to figure out how to have it best in my favor. Thanks again 🙂

 

[faded2122]

That is very interesting, thank you for taking the time to reply. I was originally going to ask for a guarenteed 180-200k, but maybe with the draw that would be a bad idea, especially if I want to eventually leave but am in the red. Do you think it might be a better plan to have a lower base (140k) and ask for a higher bonus to compensate? Really trying to figure out how to have it best in my favor. Thanks again 🙂

No worries. Heartland won’t negotiate anything above 25% collections. It’s their motto. Even the bonus is 25% of whatever you collect over the draw. But if your planning on being there only 1-2 years I would maybe do middle of the road base salary, as it would be a bad look if your deep in the red when you decide to leave, especially because they invest some time into clinicians. I did have a great experience with them though and they really promote CE and send you out monthly for it in your first few months of practice (it’s all billed to your practice though which can affect office quarterly bonuses). They have a good mentor program as well if you’re interested in learning more about any aspect of dentistry and you can go to other offices and learn from colleagues/mentors. For 1-2 years I would recommend doing Heartland, get your skills fine tuned, especially learn the ins and outs of the business side of dentistry/dealing with staff, then you can purchase a practice knowing what questions to ask to make sure it will be profitable and the right fit for you. I worked for heartland for 3 years and the amount I learned about the business side of dentisty was invaluable, in my opinion as a new grad. So view it as a lower salary/investment for future growth and knowledge you probaly wont get in a private practice right out of the gate.

 

[ToothSlooth69]

No worries. Heartland won’t negotiate anything above 25% collections. It’s their motto. Even the bonus is 25% of whatever you collect over the draw. But if your planning on being there only 1-2 years I would maybe do middle of the road base salary, as it would be a bad look if your deep in the red when you decide to leave, especially because they invest some time into clinicians. I did have a great experience with them though and they really promote CE and send you out monthly for it in your first few months of practice (it’s all billed to your practice though which can affect office quarterly bonuses). They have a good mentor program as well if you’re interested in learning more about any aspect of dentistry and you can go to other offices and learn from colleagues/mentors. For 1-2 years I would recommend doing Heartland, get your skills fine tuned, especially learn the ins and outs of the business side of dentistry/dealing with staff, then you can purchase a practice knowing what questions to ask to make sure it will be profitable and the right fit for you. I worked for heartland for 3 years and the amount I learned about the business side of dentisty was invaluable, in my opinion as a new grad. So view it as a lower salary/investment for future growth and knowledge you probaly wont get in a private practice right out of the gate.

Your reasoning for working there is the exact same thought process as why I am interested in working there! So then maybe take their normal salary but push for a greater sign on bonus? How far can I push the SOB? I have heard of locations offering 100k+ per year, but I imagine they are in the middle of nowhere. I will be in Phoenix, what do you think would be a reasonable bonus to ask for? I believe the office is mainly speaking to new grads so I believe I have some wiggle room there

 

[faded2122]

Your reasoning for working there is the exact same thought process as why I am interested in working there! So then maybe take their normal salary but push for a greater sign on bonus? How far can I push the SOB? I have heard of locations offering 100k+ per year, but I imagine they are in the middle of nowhere. I will be in Phoenix, what do you think would be a reasonable bonus to ask for? I believe the office is mainly speaking to new grads so I believe I have some wiggle

I feel like $15k was the norm for them. 100k is only for some rural place like your saying. Not to be a damper but they get a lot people applying that have been practicing for some time. Some applying May have GPR/AEGD experience too (my partner did a AEGD and only got 10k SOB). So negotiating a sign on bonus may be anywhere between 10-25k. At the end of the day they are a business and care ALOT about numbers so they will easily walk and hire a new grad if hiring you means forking out A lot more money. But i could see them giving you a higher SOB than a new grad but not much much higher. Again I could be wrong, this was 7 years ago for me but some things may change

 

[ToothSlooth69]

I feel like $15k was the norm for them. 100k is only for some rural place like your saying. Not to be a damper but they get a lot people applying that have been practicing for some time. Some applying May have GPR/AEGD experience too (my partner did a AEGD and only got 10k SOB). So negotiating a sign on bonus may be anywhere between 10-25k. At the end of the day they are a business and care ALOT about numbers so they will easily walk and hire a new grad if hiring you means forking out A lot more money. But i could see them giving you a higher SOB than a new grad but not much much higher. Again I could be wrong, this was 7 years ago for me but some things may change

Very interesting, thanks for bringing me back to reality haha. I'd hate to sell myself out of a job.
I actually made a similar post on dentaltown today in the analyzing career opportunities forum and the FOUNDER of Heartland is replying in it lmao. Did not expect that!

 

[valc]

25% collections is laughable.

 

[faded2122]

Very interesting, thanks for bringing me back to reality haha. I'd hate to sell myself out of a job.
I actually made a similar post on dentaltown today in the analyzing career opportunities forum and the FOUNDER of Heartland is replying in it lmao. Did not expect that!

well I’m sure he can provide more detail than me! He is known to occupy forums and respond to heartland posts. Best of luck on the job hunt

 

[ToothSlooth69]

25% collections is laughable.

25% collections is laughable.

On dentaltown the founder mentions that since they're such a large corporation they get much better reimbursements for procedures, claiming 25% collections would really be more like 32.8% for a regular private office. I am unable to verify that but honestly wouldn't be surprised? Still getting to figure it all out

 

[yappy]

On dentaltown the founder mentions that since they're such a large corporation they get much better reimbursements for procedures, claiming 25% collections would really be more like 32.8% for a regular private office. I am unable to verify that but honestly wouldn't be surprised? Still getting to figure it all out

It’s probably not true. I cannot say for certain but I’ve discussed how insurance negotiations have been a frustration with a few DSO leaders. It makes sense in a way because to an insurance company there is enough competition amongst offices within most markets that their patients can find care without them having to do sweetheart deals.

I agree that 25% is criminal. It’s concerning to be honest.

 

[AONLINE]

I've gotten a lot of interest from private offices, but I've been told 30-32% production so far. Still much better than 25%, I agree. They seem much less willing to mentor/expand my skills without partnering with them.

My primary interest with Heartland is they seem very interested in building up my skillset, and my thoughts are it might be worth taking an income hit for one year to earn more profitable procedures which would pay off when I am an owner

I was paid on collection at one of my previous jobs, and trust me it was A MESS. Don't even want to make a comment about 25%, that's borderline criminal. Heck I'd take 30-32% adjusted production over 35% collection any day.

 

[valc]

On dentaltown the founder mentions that since they're such a large corporation they get much better reimbursements for procedures, claiming 25% collections would really be more like 32.8% for a regular private office. I am unable to verify that but honestly wouldn't be surprised? Still getting to figure it all out

if they take Medicaid, the regular reimbursement would be let’s say $250 for molar endo, but they negotiated higher fee schedules (like hospitals). Now molar endo is $500. Still worth it? I wouldn’t do a molar endo for $500. You can rationalize an increase in collections all you want, but working for 25% COLLECTIONS is crazy especially if they take insurances that pay very little. I doubt they will pay you a high base with 25%, and if they do- read the fine print. Signing bonuses also come with contingencies. There are plenty of practices that pay 33-35% production. If you take the job at Heartland, I wouldn’t even feel bad for you since you put yourself in that situation.

 

[ToothSlooth69]

if they take Medicaid, the regular reimbursement would be let’s say $250 for molar endo, but they negotiated higher fee schedules (like hospitals). Now molar endo is $500. Still worth it? I wouldn’t do a molar endo for $500. You can rationalize an increase in collections all you want, but working for 25% COLLECTIONS is crazy especially if they take insurances that pay very little. I doubt they will pay you a high base with 25%, and if they do- read the fine print. Signing bonuses also come with contingencies. There are plenty of practices that pay 33-35% production. If you take the job at Heartland, I wouldn’t even feel bad for you since you put yourself in that situation.

I definitely understand I would make less working for them vs a private office. My idea would be to work there for a year to learn molar endo, invisalign, how to efficiently run a practice, etc. Wouldn't that experience pay itself over once I have my own practice and can now do these procedures?

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

I definitely understand I would make less working for them vs a private office. My idea would be to work there for a year to learn molar endo, invisalign, how to efficiently run a practice, etc. Wouldn't that experience pay itself over once I have my own practice and can now do these procedures?

The thing I think a lot of people are struggling with here is that you seem to think that Heartland is the only way to learn these things. I learned all of these things by working in private practice for a year and making much more money. Working for Heartland for a year won’t kill you. You just probably could have been in a better position pursuing other avenues.

 

[niko472]

Is there any other corporate in Phoenix you can work for? I’m not in Phoenix, but live in a very similar city. You’re probably not going to get above 30% production in Phoenix as a new grad. Private offices will leave you with the leftovers and you probably won’t get great experience.

Most new grads coast on their day rate the first year or two. I’d focus on getting a solid base rate over a solid %.

To me, you’d make more money and get more experience at a smaller corporate chain. Just make sure you have a favorable exit plan - 30-60 day notice. Don’t fall for the sign on bonuses. They’re offering those for unfavorable offices where they struggle to keep a dentist long term. Most new grads quit their first office after about six months. You don’t want to locked into an office because you don’t want to/can’t pay back the sign on.

 

[valc]

I definitely understand I would make less working for them vs a private office. My idea would be to work there for a year to learn molar endo, invisalign, how to efficiently run a practice, etc. Wouldn't that experience pay itself over once I have my own practice and can now do these procedures?

Seems like you have your mind set on heartland. Good luck

 

[ToothSlooth69]

Is there any other corporate in Phoenix you can work for? I’m not in Phoenix, but live in a very similar city. You’re probably not going to get above 30% production in Phoenix as a new grad. Private offices will leave you with the leftovers and you probably won’t get great experience.

Most new grads coast on their day rate the first year or two. I’d focus on getting a solid base rate over a solid %.

To me, you’d make more money and get more experience at a smaller corporate chain. Just make sure you have a favorable exit plan - 30-60 day notice. Don’t fall for the sign on bonuses. They’re offering those for unfavorable offices where they struggle to keep a dentist long term. Most new grads quit their first office after about six months. You don’t want to locked into an office because you don’t want to/can’t pay back the sign on.

Hmm the other corporates in the area are Aspen, Gentle dental, and affordable dentures and implants. None of them seem great.

I'm currently in a GPR, and will have placed about 70 implants, comfortable with surgical ext's, etc so I think I am an attractive candidate for PP. I've spoken to 7-10 private offices and they all seem to hit me with 30% production offers.

 

[ToothSlooth69]

The thing I think a lot of people are struggling with here is that you seem to think that Heartland is the only way to learn these things. I learned all of these things by working in private practice for a year and making much more money. Working for Heartland for a year won’t kill you. You just probably could have been in a better position pursuing other avenues.

That's totally fair, I've spoken to about 8 offices out there and most of the offices aren't offering mentorship unless I'm interested in partnering at the office down the line. My goal is to own my own practice so I don't feel super comfortable leading them on to get more training. Maybe I just haven't found the right office yet

 

[ToothSlooth69]

Seems like you have your mind set on heartland. Good luck

I'm definitely not stuck on working for them, I suppose I'm just nervous of being at a PP that only feeds me the scraps and non productive procedures

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

I'm definitely not stuck on working for them, I suppose I'm just nervous of being at a PP that only feeds me the scraps and non productive procedures

That’s a reasonable fear. When I was looking for a job I was looking on indeed, in contact with temp agencies and dental suppliers, looking on my school’s alumni job website, etc. It took me time to find the right office.

To avoid a situation where you are just picking up the scraps ask why the previous associate left, ask to see their schedule and production numbers. Be clear that you’re looking for mentorship. You’ll find the right spot for you.

 

[ToothSlooth69]

That’s a reasonable fear. When I was looking for a job I was looking on indeed, in contact with temp agencies and dental suppliers, looking on my school’s alumni job website, etc. It took me time to find the right office.

To avoid a situation where you are just picking up the scraps ask why the previous associate left, ask to see their schedule and production numbers. Be clear that you’re looking for mentorship. You’ll find the right spot for you.

Oh absolutely, I think it will come with time. Part of my dilemma is I'm currently in a different state but will be moving to PHX once the residency ends, so it's hard for me to go out and find the ideal practice. Part of my idea with Heartland was to get grounded in PHX and begin looking for better opportunities once I'm there. But hopefully I could avoid it all together 🙂

 

[Blueshirts]

I've gotten a lot of interest from private offices, but I've been told 30-32% production so far. Still much better than 25%, I agree. They seem much less willing to mentor/expand my skills without partnering with them.

My primary interest with Heartland is they seem very interested in building up my skillset, and my thoughts are it might be worth taking an income hit for one year to earn more profitable procedures which would pay off when I am an owner

You aren’t going to get mentorship anywhere, but in private you can at least see how the business is run. Just by the nature of practice you will advance your own clinical skills.

 

[schmoob]

Heartland really focuses on endo/crown and Invisalign. That’s their bread and butter.
Also as mentioned earlier, watch out for that sign on bonus, it really locks you in.