Please help me understand this - is the process really THAT difficult?

[aspiring20]

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I just found out that a student in my college (my class) got into medical school and will be attending this fall. The student applied at the end of junior year, and she was away all of second semester senior year studying abroad. She flew back while abroad to attend interviews and apparently got in. I wish her the best on the road ahead, of course, but I have something I want to say.

This student didn't start out college as a pre med. She started clinical volunteering her junior year, and she really doesn't have that impressive of an application (mostly cookie cutter stuff, very limited clinical experiences). In addition, there really aren't any hooks to her app as well; she majored in a typical natural science (dont want to be specific), and she is an ORM (Asian). Lastly, her grades are average (3.6 range), and applied to very few schools (again, don't want to give out number).

I mean, obviously she had a successful cycle, so I wonder if this process really is as difficult as people are claiming. I am planning to apply in the near future, and I am very uncertain about the whole thing. It seems that you absolutely need a 3.7+ and 33+ to have a shot anywhere.

 

[von Matterhorn]

No. Just no.

 

[HoltMD]

I just found out that a student in my college (my class) got into medical school and will be attending this fall. The student applied at the end of junior year, and she was away all of second semester senior year studying abroad. She flew back while abroad to attend interviews and apparently got in. I wish her the best on the road ahead, of course, but I have something I want to say.

This student didn't start out college as a pre med. She started clinical volunteering her junior year, and she really doesn't have that impressive of an application (mostly cookie cutter stuff, very limited clinical experiences). In addition, there really aren't any hooks to her app as well; she majored in a typical natural science (dont want to be specific), and she is an ORM (Asian). Lastly, her grades are average (3.6 range), and applied to very few schools (again, don't want to give out number).

I mean, obviously she had a successful cycle, so I wonder if this process really is as difficult as people are claiming. I am planning to apply in the near future, and I am very uncertain about the whole thing. It seems that you absolutely need a 3.7+ and 33+ to have a shot anywhere.

You sound like the whiny asians in my class.

 

[mimelim]

The practical reality is that if you don't have at least a 3.95 and a 38 MCAT you probably won't get in anywhere, never mind anywhere good. If you want a shot at a decent school you need at least 6-7 publications and at least 2 solid years of volunteer work. Obviously your 'friend' was sleeping with someone on the admissions committee.

 

[HoltMD]

The practical reality is that if you don't have at least a 3.95 and a 38 MCAT you probably won't get in anywhere, never mind anywhere good. If you want a shot at a decent school you need at least 6-7 publications and at least 2 solid years of volunteer work. Obviously your 'friend' was sleeping with someone on the admissions committee.

You forgot to mention that you need at least two open heart surgeries under your belt too.

 

[AestheticGod]

You sound like the whiny asians in my class.

The practical reality is that if you don't have at least a 3.95 and a 38 MCAT you probably won't get in anywhere, never mind anywhere good. If you want a shot at a decent school you need at least 6-7 publications and at least 2 solid years of volunteer work. Obviously your 'friend' was sleeping with someone on the admissions committee.

You forgot to mention that you need at least two open heart surgeries under your belt too.

I don't see why you guys feel the need to be so rude to someone who is asking a question. In other words, go fuk yourself.



OP, she most likely got lucky, and you haven't told us her MCAT score either, cause that's a big factor as well. There will always be those few case where that average student just happens to get accepted, and there will always be those MANY of cases where the 3.7+ gpa students gets denied. Not to mention SDN'ers have a tendency to over inflate the requirements for medical school (which isn't a bad think if you think about it).

You don't need THAT good of scores to get into medical school, someones, it's just pure luck. A 3.5 with a 33mcat score is good enough to get into medical school. And that doesn't mean that a person with a 3.0 and 30mcat score can't get in either, cause there will ALWAYS be that ONE person who gets in cause of some weird/odd luck.

 

[Jaqen Hghar]

You forgot to mention that you need at least two open heart surgeries under your belt too.

Does it count if you were the patient? Or, am I stretching this to fluff up my app?😎

 

[angldrps]

Just focus on your own struggle because if we started to analyze every admitted applicant's stats/reasons for success then we would just end up being even more confused.

 

[bluecabinet]

was she hot?

in all honesty...the process seems like a crapshoot...

 

[mimelim]

I don't see why you guys feel the need to be so rude to someone who is asking a question. In other words, go fuk yourself.



OP, she most likely got lucky, and you haven't told us her MCAT score either, cause that's a big factor as well. There will always be those few case where that average student just happens to get accepted, and there will always be those MANY of cases where the 3.7+ gpa students gets denied. Not to mention SDN'ers have a tendency to over inflate the requirements for medical school (which isn't a bad thing if you think about it).

You don't need THAT good of scores to get into medical school, someones, it's just pure luck. A 3.5 with a 33mcat score is good enough to get into medical school. And that doesn't mean that a person with a 3.0 and 30mcat score can't get in either, cause there will ALWAYS be that ONE person who gets in cause of some weird/odd luck.

I'm sorry, I assumed this was a joke/troll thread and responded in kind. In the event that it wasn't I was about to post http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=418 and recommend the OP read random threads to get a feel for things and then maybe post their own for feedback.

I consider it incredibly rude to make a half-assed generic question post when there is tons of information right at ones finger tips and not have the decency to search first. It is a waste of people's time to try to guide people and answer questions if the OP doesn't read and learn on their own first.

Further, all I know about you is that you made a thread asking about whether to be dishonest when applying to medical schools and trying to get accommodations for "test anxiety". I'm not sure how your answer is remotely helpful given it is full of generic and really random numbers that can be really summed up as, "anything can happen!" Well no kidding anything can happen. What is likely to happen can be figured out by reading the linked forum a little bit and then asking specific questions as needed.

There are many of us that have spent consider amounts of time jumping through hoops and honing our skills and would be more than happy to share our time and experiences. While I can't speak for every medical student and resident out there, personally, I prefer when people exert at least a tiny bit of effort before asking a question.

 

[AestheticGod]

I'm sorry, I assumed this was a joke/troll thread and responded in kind. In the event that it wasn't I was about to post http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=418 and recommend the OP read random threads to get a feel for things and then maybe post their own for feedback.

I consider it incredibly rude to make a half-assed generic question post when there is tons of information right at ones finger tips and not have the decency to search first. It is a waste of people's time to try to guide people and answer questions if the OP doesn't read and learn on their own first.

Further, all I know about you is that you made a thread asking about whether to be dishonest when applying to medical schools and trying to get accommodations for "test anxiety". I'm not sure how your answer is remotely helpful given it is full of generic and really random numbers that can be really summed up as, "anything can happen!" Well no kidding anything can happen. What is likely to happen can be figured out by reading the linked forum a little bit and then asking specific questions as needed.

There are many of us that have spent consider amounts of time jumping through hoops and honing our skills and would be more than happy to share our time and experiences. While I can't speak for every medical student and resident out there, personally, I prefer when people exert at least a tiny bit of effort before asking a question.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you only reply seriously to serious threads. You DO realize this is a forum on the internet, right? Cmon..are you new to the internet or something? Do you honestly think people will use common sense and use the search bar? 🙄 Literally 90% of the questions asked here, has been asked and answered numerous times. Don't expect things to change anytime soon, and don't expect whitty comments like yours to even help contribute anything. If anything, your whitty comments just makes people NOT want to ask questions. It's as easy as replying with "Search xxxxxxxxxxx and you'll find threads on this."

Let's count the amount of things my threads has to do with this thread.
And "dishonest if i take accommodations for test anxiety"? Please don't put words in my mouth. Because I didn't ask if it would be DISHONEST, I asked if med schools would look down upon me having test anxiety. If you actually read the thread, you would understand why I asked the question and what I decided. (Here's a hint, i decided to not take it.)

As far as my comment to OP, I'm pretty sure it helped more then yours. And I'm confused as to how your link for "what are my chances?" will help OP, since OP is asking for our opinions on his friend getting into med school with mediocre grades. He didn't even ask us about his stats or anything similar to that.




Here's a scenerio: You ask your Gen Chem professor how you find the .5 molar mass of 5ClCOH, and the professor tells you "I heard there's a book name in your syllabus. And i heard that book helps."
How would you feel if that happened to you?

 

[mimelim]

Yes, I try to be helpful and reply seriously to threads. My response was obviously in jest.

I apologize to the OP. I thought that you were like most of the other troll threads on here given the generic nature, lack of specific, over use of parentheses and naivete displayed. I would recommend that before asking generic questions based on an anecdotal story that has emotionally upset you, you read up on some of the fantastic information available to you on this forum.

First, be sure to check out the "what are my chances forum" that I linked earlier. It will give you a feel for common SDN gut responses to people's scores, grades and experiences. Reading several of them will give you quite a good feel for how to think about numbers that are thrown about. Second, when you do ask about things, be sure to consider the sources that throw information at you. There is a ton of crap out there. For instance, someone that speaks purely in generalities is likely regurgitating information they read elsewhere. In the legal world, hearsay.

If you have specific questions and don't feel comfortable posting on the open forum, feel free to PM me and I will try to answer them. I'm not a big fan of trying to argue with raging pre-meds in random threads.

 

[mimelim]

Here's a scenerio: You ask your Gen Chem professor how you find the .5 molar mass of 5ClCOH, and the professor tells you "I heard there's a book name in your syllabus. And i heard that book helps."
How would you feel if that happened to you?

I TAed general Physics for 2 years. I tutored pre-meds in Physics through undergrad. If someone came to ME with that question or its Physics equivalent I would tell them to look it up. Never mind if I was the professor of the class. How would I feel?

I have no idea because I would never dream of asking a question that I can easily answer by looking it up for myself. From the receiving side of this kind of question, I can tell you that I have always been extremely nice about it and told people to look it up for themselves and come back if they still don't get it. However, undergrad tolerance for this may be variable, but if you pulled this kind of stuff in medical school, you would be laughed at and told to look it up. If it was something worthwhile you would be told to present it the following day, but for something this simple, I doubt they would even bother.

 

[AestheticGod]

I TAed general Physics for 2 years. I tutored pre-meds in Physics through undergrad. If someone came to ME with that question or its Physics equivalent I would tell them to look it up. Never mind if I was the professor of the class. How would I feel?

I have no idea because I would never dream of asking a question that I can easily answer by looking it up for myself. From the receiving side of this kind of question, I can tell you that I have always been extremely nice about it and told people to look it up for themselves and come back if they still don't get it. However, undergrad tolerance for this may be variable, but if you pulled this kind of stuff in medical school, you would be laughed at and told to look it up. If it was something worthwhile you would be told to present it the following day, but for something this simple, I doubt they would even bother.

Student: Hey, Mr. TA, do you mind helping me understand how to calculate moles?
TA: Go look it up in the book.
Student: Ok...so why are you here again?
TA: Cause I like to teach students.
Student: ............

 

[mimelim]

Student: Hey, Mr. TA, do you mind helping me understand how to calculate moles?
TA: Go look it up in the book.
Student: Ok...so why are you here again?
TA: Cause I like to teach students.
Student: ............

This is my last post responding to you because this is getting stupid. We are obviously at two very different places and have vastly different opinions about responsibility, which will never be resolved by reasoned discussion.

You obviously think that you are entitled to a professor's or a TA's time and energies. A likely extrapolation from this is that you will continue to think that your future medical school professors, attendings and residents will have the same obligation to you. Guess what, all of those people have limited time and energy and they don't waste it on people that are rude, obnoxious and show so little respect for their teacher's time that they don't try to learn on their own. Grow up. The world does not revolve around you, TAs and teachers are there for those that genuinely need help, not people too lazy to do any work. If you truly can't figure out how absurd your last post is, I suggest you simply google the phrase, "how to calculate moles". I would expect a 6th grader to be capable of being #1 able to find the resource to help them in a book or on the internet and #2 be able to solve the equation, never mind someone who is trying to go to medical school. Take some damn ownership of your learning.

 

[notbobtrustme]

3.6 and 30 is competitive. You won't get in everywhere, but if you apply wide and early you'll get in somewhere. The further up the ladder you are on that scale, the better off you are obviously. SDN is full of trolls with threads like 4.0/38 WUT R MY CHANCES PLZ HALP. To put a 38 in perspective, only about 500 people apply with a >38 in any typical year.

https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf

This chart is your friend. It's aggregate data from 2008-2010 on all applicants and accepted students broken down by GPA and MCAT.

 

[Kinis]

Maybe she just struck them as being of excellent Doctor material and she showed she could meet the academic requirements with her decent grades. If I were on admissions, I would let communication skills, proof of empathy, consciousnesses etc. trump pure academic prowess. They want MDs not PhDs.

 

[Praefectus]

Does it count if you were the patient? Or, am I stretching this to fluff up my app?😎

If you have ever seen a doctor for something more than flu shots, you're never going to get in anywhere. Going through surgery is a sign of weakness and doesn't influence your decisions to go into medicine at all.

Btw, valar morghulis.

 

[AestheticGod]

This is my last post responding to you because this is getting stupid. We are obviously at two very different places and have vastly different opinions about responsibility, which will never be resolved by reasoned discussion.

You obviously think that you are entitled to a professor's or a TA's time and energies. A likely extrapolation from this is that you will continue to think that your future medical school professors, attendings and residents will have the same obligation to you. Guess what, all of those people have limited time and energy and they don't waste it on people that are rude, obnoxious and show so little respect for their teacher's time that they don't try to learn on their own. Grow up. The world does not revolve around you, TAs and teachers are there for those that genuinely need help, not people too lazy to do any work. If you truly can't figure out how absurd your last post is, I suggest you simply google the phrase, "how to calculate moles". I would expect a 6th grader to be capable of being #1 able to find the resource to help them in a book or on the internet and #2 be able to solve the equation, never mind someone who is trying to go to medical school. Take some damn ownership of your learning.

What part of that question to help find the molar mass was rude and obnoxious? It doesn't matter how easy it is, it's a genuine question that someone is asking for help with. It can be be 2+2 for all I care. Man, with the high horse attitude you have, you'll make a fantastic doctor someday.

 

[theseeker4]

What part of that question to help find the molar mass was rude and obnoxious? It doesn't matter how easy it is, it's a genuine question that someone is asking for help with. It can be be 2+2 for all I care. Man, with the high horse attitude you have, you'll make a fantastic doctor someday.

Wait, you really think if a student asks a professor what 2+2 is, that is a genuine question the professor is obligated to spend time helping the student with? Oh, and 🙄 to your final sentence.

 

[OREdwardsJR]

This is my last post responding to you because this is getting stupid. We are obviously at two very different places and have vastly different opinions about responsibility, which will never be resolved by reasoned discussion.

You obviously think that you are entitled to a professor's or a TA's time and energies. A likely extrapolation from this is that you will continue to think that your future medical school professors, attendings and residents will have the same obligation to you. Guess what, all of those people have limited time and energy and they don't waste it on people that are rude, obnoxious and show so little respect for their teacher's time that they don't try to learn on their own. Grow up. The world does not revolve around you, TAs and teachers are there for those that genuinely need help, not people too lazy to do any work. If you truly can't figure out how absurd your last post is, I suggest you simply google the phrase, "how to calculate moles". I would expect a 6th grader to be capable of being #1 able to find the resource to help them in a book or on the internet and #2 be able to solve the equation, never mind someone who is trying to go to medical school. Take some damn ownership of your learning.

I'm glad that you explained yourself. While I don't agree with the temperament where you wouldn't explain how to find the amount of moles to a student, I do understand why you feel that way now.

 

[Haislip]

3.6 and 30 is competitive. You won't get in everywhere, but if you apply wide and early you'll get in somewhere. The further up the ladder you are on that scale, the better off you are obviously. SDN is full of trolls with threads like 4.0/38 WUT R MY CHANCES PLZ HALP. To put a 38 in perspective, only about 500 people apply with a >38 in any typical year.

https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf

This chart is your friend. It's aggregate data from 2008-2010 on all applicants and accepted students broken down by GPA and MCAT.

LOL. This made my day

 

[sliceofbread136]

What part of that question to help find the molar mass was rude and obnoxious? It doesn't matter how easy it is, it's a genuine question that someone is asking for help with. It can be be 2+2 for all I care. Man, with the high horse attitude you have, you'll make a fantastic doctor someday.

I find it kinda ridiculous that a premed would say this to a resident...

 

[lobo.solo]

was she hot?

in all honesty...the process seems like a crapshoot...

Maybe she was hot and adcoms were needy 😀

 

[Arbor Vitae]

The practical reality is that if you don't have at least a 3.95 and a 38 MCAT you probably won't get in anywhere, never mind anywhere good. If you want a shot at a decent school you need at least 6-7 publications and at least 2 solid years of volunteer work. Obviously your 'friend' was sleeping with someone on the admissions committee.

quoted for truth

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

What part of that question to help find the molar mass was rude and obnoxious? It doesn't matter how easy it is, it's a genuine question that someone is asking for help with. It can be be 2+2 for all I care. Man, with the high horse attitude you have, you'll make a fantastic doctor someday.

You sure have a lot of rude crap to say for a pre-med. Grown those big internet balls have we?

 

[hiyaman]

Don't underestimate anything in life. Esp medical school admissions.

 

[Stumpyman]

It depends. Cali applicants probably wouldn't stand too well with that story and using it as a template for future applications.

I like what Hiyaman said... Whatever you're doing, do your best at it. Don't aspire to meet the bare minimum standards.

 

[namiie]

Just focus on your own struggle because if we started to analyze every admitted applicant's stats/reasons for success then we would just end up being even more confused.

👍👍👍

 

[Jaqen Hghar]

What part of that question to help find the molar mass was rude and obnoxious? It doesn't matter how easy it is, it's a genuine question that someone is asking for help with. It can be be 2+2 for all I care. Man, with the high horse attitude you have, you'll make a fantastic doctor someday.

I'm sorry, but the invoking of Burnett's law automatically invalidates any argument you had in this thread.👎

 

[drizzt3117]

I'm sorry, but the invoking of Burnett's law automatically invalidates any argument you had in this thread.👎

Nm that the person he's addressing is already a doctor.

 

[Jaqen Hghar]

Nm that the person he's addressing is already a doctor.

Derp... Didn't pay that much attention lol.

So, invoking of Burnett's Law to a someone who is already a doctor... Is that unprecedented on SDN?

 

[H Y F R]

This whole process is really easy. You should try it sometime. Try it a few times even.

 

[Ironmandoc]

You forgot to mention that you need at least two open heart surgeries under your belt too.

And don't forget the SDN favorite intubations

 

[circulus vitios]

90% of the information on SDN is garbage. Some of the good information: the charts in the "what are my chances" subforum; the SDN spreadsheet on Google docs as a rough guideline of which schools to apply to; the MCAT study regimen by SN2 in the MCAT subforum; the basic cookie cutter activities -- clinical volunteering, non-clinical volunteering, shadowing, research if you're applying to a research-heavy school.

 

[NickNaylor]

90% of the information on SDN is garbage. Some of the good information: the charts in the "what are my chances" subforum; the SDN spreadsheet on Google docs as a rough guideline of which schools to apply to; the MCAT study regimen by SN2 in the MCAT subforum; the basic cookie cutter activities -- clinical volunteering, non-clinical volunteering, shadowing, research if you're applying to a research-heavy school.

I think the community is a little better than 90%...

(sent from my phone - please forgive typos)

 

[darkjedi]

I just found out that a student in my college (my class) got into medical school and will be attending this fall. The student applied at the end of junior year, and she was away all of second semester senior year studying abroad. She flew back while abroad to attend interviews and apparently got in. I wish her the best on the road ahead, of course, but I have something I want to say.

This student didn't start out college as a pre med. She started clinical volunteering her junior year, and she really doesn't have that impressive of an application (mostly cookie cutter stuff, very limited clinical experiences). In addition, there really aren't any hooks to her app as well; she majored in a typical natural science (dont want to be specific), and she is an ORM (Asian). Lastly, her grades are average (3.6 range), and applied to very few schools (again, don't want to give out number).

I mean, obviously she had a successful cycle, so I wonder if this process really is as difficult as people are claiming. I am planning to apply in the near future, and I am very uncertain about the whole thing. It seems that you absolutely need a 3.7+ and 33+ to have a shot anywhere.

meh, I am an ORM, had a 3.6 GPA, and built up all my medical experiences in the past 2-3 years. Granted I am a bit older and a career changer, but I'm sure you're probably not seeing her entire application either. Honestly, checking off all the 'normal' premed boxes makes you kind of boring to adcoms.

That said, I worked my butt off to get where I am now, and I will be the first person to say that this process is tough as crap and will destroy you if you let it.

 

[gatorade848]

3.3 both gpa, 33 mcat, not urm, first time applying

i knew my gpa sucked so I made sure everything else was perfect; essays, recs, interview etc. for me it was exceptionally difficult, partly because i dug a hole early in college and I had been trying to get out of it ever since. I worked my butt off and i got 3 interviews and 2 acceptances to MD schools. if you can get a 3.7+ gpa and show you have a passion for medicine, this process is pretty easy; if you only have one of the two, its pretty hard

 

[circulus vitios]

I think the community is a little better than 90%...

(sent from my phone - please forgive typos)

Sorry, I meant the pre-medical subforum (specifically, pre-medical allopathic.)