Please help - Scared about debt

[strivehigh]

I am about to start taking my first DPT classes on Tuesday and I cannot get this thought out of my head about the astronomical debt that I'm about to accrue - a little over $140,000. To any current PT's out there or anyone with relevant experience with this, do any of you live comfortably with your salary and debt from school (house, car, family, savings, disposable income, maybe a couple small vacations a year) or at least have plans for this type of lifestyle?

Believe me, I really look forward to the opportunities presented to me by the profession, but I also feel like I'm about to sign my life away to federal debt. Coupled with the fact that I'm about to leave home for the first time and start living and paying for everything on my own, I'm having serious doubts. How did you make it through this fear - if you ever did?

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[runner618]

Hi there! I'm a new grad who started with $85k in student loans, already paid off $6k. Unfortunately, my friends with undergraduate finance/business degrees are now purchasing homes, living in nice apartments, making a good living etc. It really sucks to go those 3 years without income and paying a HUGE amount for tuition. Personally, it's not so much the loan amount you have to worry about, it is the interest! The interest accrues so much per month, it's ridiculous. I personally could not recommend this career (as much as I LOVE it) to anyone who has to take >$100k in loans. I work in the Washington DC area and new grads make $65-73k, I went to school in Boston where most of my classmates received first job offers from $50-70k. I am from Ohio and most offers there I received were $60-68k. As a general rule, most financial experts say to not go for a career where your student loans will exceed your first year salary, however this is tricky in 2018. I applied for 10 jobs in different locations throughout the atlantic, northeast, and Midwest, and only 2 offered student-loan reimbursement (both were less than $5k toward student loans). It's definitely a job you do because you love, not for the money. I'm so grateful to only have $82K to go. Work a weekend job through PT school, pick up PRN when you graduate, whatever you can. And most of all, LIVE SIMPLY. So many of my classmates used student loans for travel, nice housing, etc. Live with roommates and live in budget apartments as long as you can! This is also a career where it is tough to negotiate a higher salary, and there is not much room for salary growth beyond $80-90k unless you are working 50+ hours a week, doing travel PT in undesirable areas, or owning your own business.

Myself and many of my classmates were dishearted during clinicals when we learned our CIs were living paycheck to paycheck due to student loans and low pay. I make $73k (high new grad offer) in inpatient acute care setting. I live very simply (3 roommates, commute 1hr to/from work each day, public transportation, dumb phone, etc) and make it work. It depends on the lifestyle you want.

 

[jblil]

^ just like runner618 said: live like a Trappist monk; get about a year's experience then switch to Travel PT if you don't mind the constant change and the nomadic lifestyle.

My own rule of thumb is to always project myself 5-7 years into the future, before making a big decision: what would be my income/debt/other financial obligations, etc, be like? Doing so helps prevent making rash decisions because [fill in your favorite thing here] is a "passion".

 

[SpartanWolverine]

... I personally could not recommend this career (as much as I LOVE it) to anyone who has to take >$100k in loans. ... As a general rule, most financial experts say to not go for a career where your student loans will exceed your first year salary. ...

From a financial perspective, though I am not a PT, I subscribe to the advice in bold above. I just don't think having debt that is potentially double your yearly pre-tax salary is advisable. On a typical 10-year repayment you would owe >$1,600/mo (and repay ~$193k). Even on a 30-year repayment you would owe >$900/mo (and end up paying back ~$330k). This is a pretty solid financial burden. I have a couple of family members who went through a DPT education and are struggling with similar loan principals and having serious second thoughts as to the value of their education.

 

[noyceguy]

I am about to start taking my first DPT classes on Tuesday and I cannot get this thought out of my head about the astronomical debt that I'm about to accrue - a little over $140,000. To any current PT's out there or anyone with relevant experience with this, do any of you live comfortably with your salary and debt from school (house, car, family, savings, disposable income, maybe a couple small vacations a year) or at least have plans for this type of lifestyle?

Believe me, I really look forward to the opportunities presented to me by the profession, but I also feel like I'm about to sign my life away to federal debt. Coupled with the fact that I'm about to leave home for the first time and start living and paying for everything on my own, I'm having serious doubts. How did you make it through this fear - if you ever did?

You are taking out loans of $140k to make $60k? This does not make sense. Please rethink your career plans.

 

[Schland]

Probably not what you want to hear the weekend before you start but if I had the choice knowing what I know now I wouldn’t do it. My maximum number would be even lower than above... I would not recommend PT for anyone who has to take out more than $65K... which sadly is likely a rare occasion these days. The job has a high burn out rate and reimbursement isn’t going up. I’m happy for the knowledge I have for myself and I’ve had many wonderful patient experiences but the amount of money I make for the amount of schooling I had to complete and debt I had to take on just doesn’t match.

I’d recommend reading this article Physical Therapy Burnout is Destroying Our Profession - CovalentCareers Blog. I’ll be done paying my loans when I get my next pay check but I worked 2 jobs, lots of overtime, lived at home with my parents (I could care less what people think, I’m thankful for the opportunity. My desire to get those loans off my back were greater than my desire to live on my own. I did help pay some bills but what I pay my parents is way less than what I’d pay for rent), and resisted a lot of pleasure spending. 4 years out, just shy of 28. Of course this wasn’t always the plan so I could have done it quicker. I lived with an ex of mine and when we broke up I realized moving back in with my parents and paying the loans ASAP was just the better move for me financially. I’ve had to put some things on hold in the meantime that others got to enjoy but it’s a decision I’m happy I made for myself. If I could start over, I would have studied something else. Such is life.

 

[jblil]

I’ll be done paying my loans when I get my next pay check.

Congrats! If I were you, I'd work a year or two more to build a nest egg, then find another profession or career to explore. I'm 3 years out and am thinking of the "next steps" already. Life is short...

 

[strivehigh]

I’ll be done paying my loans when I get my next pay check but I worked 2 jobs, lots of overtime, lived at home with my parents (I could care less what people think, I’m thankful for the opportunity. My desire to get those loans off my back were greater than my desire to live on my own. I did help pay some bills but what I pay my parents is way less than what I’d pay for rent), and resisted a lot of pleasure spending. 4 years out, just shy of 28. Of course this wasn’t always the plan so I could have done it quicker. I lived with an ex of mine and when we broke up I realized moving back in with my parents and paying the loans ASAP was just the better move for me financially. I’ve had to put some things on hold in the meantime that others got to enjoy but it’s a decision I’m happy I made for myself. If I could start over, I would have studied something else. Such is life.

It's funny because I just spent the last two years focusing most of my efforts simply getting into PT school. I applied to 18 schools and got into 3 with interviews at a few others. But my point is, even though I went with the cheapest option available to me, the reality of the debt did not fully kick in until just about a month ago. By then, I had completely rearranged my life to make this happen. Things are pretty much irreversible. Now the debt makes me want to puke.

If you don't mind me asking, how much debt did you have to deal with that you were able to pay off in four years? Like you, I have the option to live with my parents again in three years, so I'll use that resource if I can to help save money.

 

[Schland]

Congrats! If I were you, I'd work a year or two more to build a nest egg, then find another profession or career to explore. I'm 3 years out and am thinking of the "next steps" already. Life is short...

Thanks! Oh I plan on saving! I know I can’t handle this profession full time for the rest of my career. Not sure if I’ll go to part time with a side gig non healthcare related, do something else part time and PT PRN, or just find something else completely. But I am content knowing that I will have much more freedom to choose.

 

[Schland]

It's funny because I just spent the last two years focusing most of my efforts simply getting into PT school. I applied to 18 schools and got into 3 with interviews at a few others. But my point is, even though I went with the cheapest option available to me, the reality of the debt did not fully kick in until just about a month ago. By then, I had completely rearranged my life to make this happen. Things are pretty much irreversible. Now the debt makes me want to puke.

If you don't mind me asking, how much debt did you have to deal with that you were able to pay off in four years? Like you, I have the option to live with my parents again in three years, so I'll use that resource if I can to help save money.

I initially borrowed 91K. It ballooned to 98K when I went into repayment (yeah... I had no idea capitalization was a thing until it happened). I’ll have paid back 115K at the end of the day. 24K more than I borrowed.... ohhhh what I could have done with that money. But like I said, I didn’t do aggressive repayment the whole time so that extended time and resulted in me paying more. I started aggressive. Then I listened to the advice to do PSLF. I switched to income based repayment which deferred my loans for a month while interest grew and my monthly payments decreased. So for about a year and a half I only made minimum payments which were pretty much only paying interest. It was starting to hit the principal when I changed my mind, but I’m not exaggerating when I say it was literally only hitting 1 or 2 cents on some loans. I think the most that got knocked down was a dollar or two on the two I have with lower interest (rates went down my last year of school). About a year and a half ago I had a change of plans. My reasons: I did not want to be tied to a particular job and I trust the government with nothing. So I slowly dumped large chunks of my savings, which was really depressing to hit that submit button, and pretty much did everything I could to just get rid of them as soon as I could. The last year and a half has not been fun by any means. But I’m happy I did it. It was what was best for me and I know everyone has different situations.

 

[runner618]

Like previously stated, I currently owe ~$80000 in student loans. You HAVE to consider is what your monthly payments will be, how long it will take to pay off, and what your take home pay will be. My salary is $73000, but after taxes only $52500. I could either have done 10 year repayment at ~$1000/month, or 25 year repayment at $500-800/month, pending on the plan. Over the 10 year plan, that $82k I owe turns into $110-120k. 25 year payment plans have the final cost being $160K+!!! On a take home salary of $50k. I know this is a great profession, great career, we truly are miracle workers. But please be educated before signing away to $140k loans, because it will likely balloon into $280k or more...

 

[OHIO PT]

Since the topic of other professions came up with PT burnout and people looking at other future options, does anyone know anyone who has gone from PT to Licensed Nursing Home Administrator (LNHA)?

I'm amazed at the relative ease to become one and the money that they make (in Ohio at least). I have been in SNF for a little over six years now and have dealt with numerous Administrators and look at some of them and think, if they can do this, I would have no problem.

I love currently being a PT and I am a manager (treating manager) with some real possibilities for higher level corporate management but I have thought if that doesnt work out or go as planned that becoming a LNHA is something I would seriously look into.

I dont want to pretend that it is an easy job or a non stressful job and doesnt have some pitfalls but the figures I have seen $$ wise seem to make it very worth it and I know I could become one with relative ease from what I know about the process.

Just curious if anyone else has ever thought of this or know anyone who has.

 

[jblil]

I'm amazed at the relative ease to become one and the money that they make (in Ohio at least).

I did a very quick search and found that the salary for LNHAs is around $100K-$120K. Is that about right, for Ohio?

 

[OHIO PT]

I did a very quick search and found that the salary for LNHAs is around $100K-$120K. Is that about right, for Ohio?

Yes, that is in range of what I have seen in Ohio.

These are the requirements in Ohio:

The Board has established the Administrator-In-Training Program as the way an individual seeking initial licensure as a nursing home administrator may obtain practical training and experience in nursing home administration.

In brief, the requirements are:

1. The applicant must hold at least a baccalaureate degree from an educational institution which must be accredited by one of the regional accrediting associations as listed in Rule 4751-1-02(A).
2. The applicant must complete the Core of Knowledge course.
3. The applicant must complete a registered, approved internship which is nine (9) months with a bachelor's degree and six (6) months with a master's degree. This must be served on a full-time basis.
4. All training must be done under the direct supervision of a licensed nursing home administrator/preceptor who is in full-time (at least 35 hours per week) practice in the nursing home approved by the Board as the applicant's internship training site.
5. The applicant must take and pass the national examination and the state examination.

 

[TomJones12432]

As a recent graduate with 100K in debt who didn’t consider the low return on investment of Pt education, I would suggest that you consider another route. Maybe pursue being an ortho PA or other similar profession that offers a high earning potential for your time and money spent on your education. I may sound a little jaded but at the end of the day, I don’t believe that it’s worth it to shackle your financial future down with heavy loans.

 

[SnowyDPT]

If you follow the rule of not pursuing a career that your first job's salary will be less than your debt from school, it eliminate essentially all graduate level medical careers. You're first job as an orthopod isn't going to have a salary that is more than your debt, not to mention the interest that has built up while doing your residency, just as a PT isn't going to have a higher salary than debt (in most cases). So, I don't necessarily agree with that "rule of thumb"

 

[SpartanWolverine]

If you follow the rule of not pursuing a career that your first job's salary will be less than your debt from school, it eliminate essentially all graduate level medical careers. You're first job as an orthopod isn't going to have a salary that is more than your debt, not to mention the interest that has built up while doing your residency, just as a PT isn't going to have a higher salary than debt (in most cases). So, I don't necessarily agree with that "rule of thumb"

You are incorrect regarding debt:salary in medicine; the vast majority of physicians will have a higher yearly salary than they have debt. The 2017 mean medical debt was ~$190,000. Even the lowest paying specialties will pay more right out of school and ortho blows that out of the water.

While it's not a perfect metric it's certainly an easy benchmark to consider the relative burden that any given amount of debt will have on someone's lifestyle.

 

[NM_PT]

I would suggest start looking at jobs around the country in rural areas that give new grads better opportunities than your physical therapy corporate practices. I took the leap and moved to New Mexico and make 90k starting salary immediately out of school plus working weekends at the hospital in town once a month. I also know of people on the Indian Reservations out here that make approximately the same thing but get part of it paid on their student loans instead of straight cash. Essentially, don't hold yourself back and think you are going to have to work at the corporate practices such as Benchmark, Drayer, ATI, etc...There's nothing wrong with them but in general you won't get above 72k as a new grad no matter where you are in the country. Also, if you don't know if you'll like a particular rural area, try and get a travel assignment there first and get paid more with no commitment and then decide if you would like to stay and sign on full time.

 

[JC Corres]

The thing is that individuals entering PT school should be aware of how much debt they are going to be thing. It's one thing to know that youre gonna spend 100k on school, but to really comprehend it- and understand how long it's gonna take to pay that off- you better have a way to clean up that "mess" because simply going to work as a physical therapy will cut it 20+ years later, but it's gonna be a looooooong payoff that way.

Im currently a DPT student right now but own my own online video production service and apparel business. I have another apparel business I plan to launch this summer as well as start another local video production business. I do all this with the mindset in that I want to work as a PT to help people and enjoy my job, not work as a PT just to pay off my debt.

I have one year left in school and I want to make it a guarantee that these businesses im starting up will pay for my loans within 2 years or less after graduating.

Just thought I'd leave this here as I think it would be approrpriate! I just finished answering a similar topic to another thread.