Please Help...UCSF or Penn

[LifeisWonderful]

Deciding between these two schools has been the hardest thing that I have had to do so far...However I do want some input from you guys..which school would you go to and why. I do live in california and ucsf is tempting from that aspect, however i am eager to specialize and i believe that by going to penn i will have a slightly better chance getting into a speciality..but again i still dont know..

any input and/or advise will be greatly appreciated...

as for anyone who is currently in the application process and has began applying--feel free to ask any questions you may have about the entire cycle i would be more than happy to help out as much as i possibly can..

Thanks

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[seaweed719]

The marginal difference of specialty placements between these two schools is so small it shouldn't be a consideration. They are both excellent research schools that send many graduates into specialty programs each year.

Your consideration factors should be more based on location, city culture, weather, proximity to friends and family, etc. I heard UPenn's neighborhood has some saftey issues though.

 

[Fonz]

The marginal difference of specialty placements between these two schools is so small it shouldn't be a consideration. They are both excellent research schools that send many graduates into specialty programs each year.

Your consideration factors should be more based on location, city culture, weather, proximity to friends and family, etc. I heard UPenn's neighborhood has some saftey issues though.

I agree 100%. I don't think there will that much difference in specialty placement

 

[IDoWhatIWant]

Ucsf.

 

[coambis]

Wow, I wish I were in that dilemma. I'd say UCSF.

Congrats.

 

[blankguy]

If you can't make up your mind and you like both equally go to the cheaper option. Are you a cal resident? Ultimately both schools will allow you to do what you want in your dental career. Don't want to see people regret that they went the more expensive route with the same end result as a colleague who went the less spendy route.

 

[Slutskya]

That's a tough one. I here UCSF is an excellent school, but so is Penn. I'm from Southern California and will be attending Penn in the fall. I'm moving the 4th of July weekend. Good luck on your decision!

 

[SHC1984]

I would pick UCSF over Penn. I heard UCSF don't start classes until Oct 2nd! Can't beat that. LOL... plus better location.

Just ask UCSF2012. He got into Harvard but turn it down for UCSF.

 

[Fonz]

If you can't make up your mind and you like both equally go to the cheaper option. Are you a cal resident? Ultimately both schools will allow you to do what you want in your dental career. Don't want to see people regret that they went the more expensive route with the same end result as a colleague who went the less spendy route.

Oh yeah. I forgot about the whole $$$ thing. That would be reeaally important to me anyway. OP is a CA resident. SF would be cheaper...

 

[UCSF2012]

If you're cool, go to UCSF. If you're not, go to Penn or whatever other school you want to. Just not UCSF.

 

[jigabodo]

I would pick UCSF over Penn. I heard UCSF don't start classes until Oct 2nd! Can't beat that. LOL... plus better location.

Just ask UCSF2012. He got into Harvard but turn it down for UCSF.

Oh my gosh.

That's more than 3 months later than Louisville. You guys are lucky indeed.

 

[doc3232]

If you're cool, go to UCSF. If you're not, go to Penn or whatever other school you want to. Just not UCSF.

Words of Wisdom right there.
Logical Deduction!

 

[Brownstain]

Deciding between these two schools has been the hardest thing that I have had to do so far...However I do want some input from you guys..which school would you go to and why. I do live in california and ucsf is tempting from that aspect, however i am eager to specialize and i believe that by going to penn i will have a slightly better chance getting into a speciality..but again i still dont know..

any input and/or advise will be greatly appreciated...

as for anyone who is currently in the application process and has began applying--feel free to ask any questions you may have about the entire cycle i would be more than happy to help out as much as i possibly can..

Thanks

I've said it before on here, I'll say it again. DO NOT MAKE A SCHOOL CHOICE BASED ON SPECIALIZATION "CHANCES". Go by your gut. My advice to you is not to take advice from anyone else on this board. These are people who are in or attempting to attend dental school. Do they sit on a OMFS admissions board? Do you even have a clue about dentistry right now since you obviously haven 't done it yet? Do you know 100% what you want to do with your dental education (specializing, public health, etc.? NO you do not, I learned that real quick when I finally got my hands dirty.

Make your decision based on what you feel better fits you as far as a school. That's lifestyle, the community, etc. not just the school itself. You are about to make a huge life decision, make sure that you make it for yourself, not based on some hearsay/random stats showing that UPENN matches a ton of foreign students into Perio programs. Information students on her have about the community, their experience at the school, and whatnot is great info that will help this decision, but don't go by some silly stats.

I can't stress enough to people not in dental school that this whole mentality about " I need to go to a good school in order to be an OMFS and make 1.3 a year" is a bunch of crap. If you want to do something...anything...in dental school set a goal and work harder to obtain your personal goal while you are in school. If you work hard and make yourself stick out that's all you need. People match into All kinds of programs from ALL schools in the country. I say it's just like poker, you can get a long way by playing the game, but in order to win you have to still be holding the cards. Being from a "good school" doesn't mean dick when you have a 3.0!

I say this alot on here and I know it sounds pessimistic, but making a decision based on a CHANCE of specializing is a horrible idea. I've watched tons of kids have dreams and aspirations shattered in school because they came in with the mindset they were going to be orthos and never considered other ideas in the realm of dentistry. By the end of the first semester they found themselves out of the "race." Dental school is hard, it is no picnic!!! Now that you are in just focus on making friends, doing good work, and getting those grades that you need to set yourself up for whatever. After your first two years if you have what you need, then start making those strides towards a career within dentistry which fits you best. Use school to explore options in dentistry and determine your personal niche, you'll be surprised, I was way off!,

So the final word, Trust yourself, Good luck in you endeavors

 

[gogiantsss]

great advice

 

[dentstd]

I've said it before on here, I'll say it again. DO NOT MAKE A SCHOOL CHOICE BASED ON SPECIALIZATION "CHANCES". Go by your gut. My advice to you is not to take advice from anyone else on this board. These are people who are in or attempting to attend dental school. Do they sit on a OMFS admissions board? Do you even have a clue about dentistry right now since you obviously haven 't done it yet? Do you know 100% what you want to do with your dental education (specializing, public health, etc.? NO you do not, I learned that real quick when I finally got my hands dirty.

Make your decision based on what you feel better fits you as far as a school. That's lifestyle, the community, etc. not just the school itself. You are about to make a huge life decision, make sure that you make it for yourself, not based on some hearsay/random stats showing that UPENN matches a ton of foreign students into Perio programs. Information students on her have about the community, their experience at the school, and whatnot is great info that will help this decision, but don't go by some silly stats.

I can't stress enough to people not in dental school that this whole mentality about " I need to go to a good school in order to be an OMFS and make 1.3 a year" is a bunch of crap. If you want to do something...anything...in dental school set a goal and work harder to obtain your personal goal while you are in school. If you work hard and make yourself stick out that's all you need. People match into All kinds of programs from ALL schools in the country. I say it's just like poker, you can get a long way by playing the game, but in order to win you have to still be holding the cards. Being from a "good school" doesn't mean dick when you have a 3.0!

I say this alot on here and I know it sounds pessimistic, but making a decision based on a CHANCE of specializing is a horrible idea. I've watched tons of kids have dreams and aspirations shattered in school because they came in with the mindset they were going to be orthos and never considered other ideas in the realm of dentistry. By the end of the first semester they found themselves out of the "race." Dental school is hard, it is no picnic!!! Now that you are in just focus on making friends, doing good work, and getting those grades that you need to set yourself up for whatever. After your first two years if you have what you need, then start making those strides towards a career within dentistry which fits you best. Use school to explore options in dentistry and determine your personal niche, you'll be surprised, I was way off!,

So the final word, Trust yourself, Good luck in you endeavors

LifeIsWonderful can discover herself and her niche at a specialty school. "Specialty schools" are pass\fail. Once she goes to a specialty dental school and doesn't do too hot, then she can play it cool, because those grades won't show up on her transcript. She could also apply to ortho, because the boards are also p\f. If she goes to a non-specialty school and doesn't do too well, her grades would pervent her from applying to specialty programs, and she's out of the running. Her dreams are shattered almost absolutely. If she decides she doesn't like the specialties and would rather be a generalist, then everything works out the same at the end regardless of where she went.

I'm sorry your friends saw their dreams waft away, but it's a different ballgame starting this year. New rules, new players, new gameplay.

 

[armorshell]

LifeIsWonderful can discover herself and her niche at a specialty school. "Specialty schools" are pass\fail. Once she goes to a specialty dental school and doesn't do too hot, then she can play it cool, because those grades won't show up on her transcript. She could also apply to ortho, because the boards are also p\f. If she goes to a non-specialty school and doesn't do too well, her grades would pervent her from applying to specialty programs, and she's out of the running. Her dreams are shattered almost absolutely. If she decides she doesn't like the specialties and would rather be a generalist, then everything works out the same at the end regardless of where she went.

I'm sorry your friends saw their dreams waft away, but it's a different ballgame starting this year. New rules, new players, new gameplay.

Penn is graded and ranked. If boards are P/F, and the school is P/F, and there's no adjunct test, there's probably going to be trouble down the road for the kids with no objective stats.

 

[dentstd]

Penn is graded and ranked. If boards are P/F, and the school is P/F, and there's no adjunct test, there's probably going to be trouble down the road for the kids with no objective stats.

It's a bad time to go to Harvard, Columbia, UCLA, and UCSF. How will their students EVER go on? Who will EVER accept them? *sigh*

 

[armorshell]

It's a bad time to go to Harvard, Columbia, UCLA, and UCSF. How will their students EVER go on? Who will EVER accept them? *sigh*

I said if there wasn't an accessory test. There will be, and nothing will change.

 

[dentstd]

I said if there wasn't an accessory test. There will be, and nothing will change.

The obstacles against this accessory test is tremendous. 1) Someone would have to comb thru the dental curriculum in at least several schools, filter out the most important concepts, create a database of questions, and possibly test them out. 2) There's no central committee or organization to do this (like the ADA for the NBDE and the AAMC for the USMLE), and most importantly 3) the schools' budgets aren't currently allocating funding for creation of such a test. You simply can't create something without funding for it. There's a reason why most grad programs just use a generic GRE. They don't have a means to create a test. It'll be interesting who dental specialties can accept based on GRE performance, given that the exam's math and verbal. DAT RC's a joke compared to the GRE verbal, and predents have demonstrated piss poor math abilities on the QR.

 

[Brownstain]

It is shaky when considering what is going to happen with the changing board format. Just about as shaky as those who took the new grading format. I guess when all else fails people can just continue to buy themselves into specialty spots at those prestigious "specialty schools" like UCLA

 

[dentstd]

It is shaky when considering what is going to happen with the changing board format. Just about as shaky as those who took the new grading format. I guess when all else fails people can just continue to buy themselves into specialty spots at those prestigious "specialty schools" like UCLA

After you apply to ortho programs and get rejected to all of them, few wouldn't be willing to take out an extra 400k loan to get into UCLA ortho. Cuz that's kinda what happened to that man. He got rejected to all programs, then his dad bought his admission with a 400k donation. Everyone could ask himself, how many ppl would take out a 400k loan and make a one-time payment, when they can increase their yearly income by 200k?

 

[DCRedskinsRule]

great advice

I like your style.

 

[armorshell]

The obstacles against this accessory test is tremendous. 1) Someone would have to comb thru the dental curriculum in at least several schools, filter out the most important concepts, create a database of questions, and possibly test them out. 2) There's no central committee or organization to do this (like the ADA for the NBDE and the AAMC for the USMLE), and most importantly 3) the schools' budgets aren't currently allocating funding for creation of such a test. You simply can't create something without funding for it. There's a reason why most grad programs just use a generic GRE. They don't have a means to create a test. It'll be interesting who dental specialties can accept based on GRE performance, given that the exam's math and verbal. DAT RC's a joke compared to the GRE verbal, and predents have demonstrated piss poor math abilities on the QR.

Something already in existence like the GRE would be an accessory test, I have no idea if they're going to create one and didn't (In this thread) suggest that anyone would.

 

[DCRedskinsRule]

If you're cool, go to UCSF. If you're not, go to Penn or whatever other school you want to. Just not UCSF.

Cheap, top schools in okay cities: San Antonio, UF, UNC, UMich, Maryland, Stony Brook

Just thought I'd throw this out there since it's in your signature...but MD is $78k out of state with living expenses, and Baltimore is not the greatest city I've ever been to. And while the facility is phenomenal and their research program is top 5 in the country (4th in the nation in NIH funding), the school itself (in terms of board scores, 1st time passing rate on boards, experience in clinic) does not, TO ME PERSONALLY, seem it deserves a "top school" reputation. Not starting a fight, just my opinion.

 

[dentstd]

Something already in existence like the GRE would be an accessory test, I have no idea if they're going to create one and didn't (In this thread) suggest that anyone would.

I'd be funny to see all the minorities cry about the GRE verbal. Many, many of those who got 22+ this cycle got it thru the SNS. Lots of low math and reading scores. Lets see their vocab ability.

 

[Bruinlove]

I'd be funny to see all the minorities cry about the GRE verbal.

Uh-oh. Do I smell racism?

 

[dentstd]

Uh-oh. Do I smell racism?

Could be, but then again, the SAT verbal made me cry too. That junk ain't easy, even for white folks.

 

[armorshell]

That would certainly suck. My math score wouldn't be anything to write home about.

 

[ucsfsod01001]

There have been a lot going on at UCSF. Decisions have been made ignoring students' concerns. Senior faculties have been mistreated. Worst of all, one of the greatest and most unique faculty has been terminated. This is not to say that UPenn is a better choice, but one should carefully think about coming to UCSF or comparing it with another school. The school is not the way it used to be anymore. God helps us!

 

[Hysteria24]

There have been a lot going on at UCSF. Decisions have been made ignoring students' concerns. Senior faculties have been mistreated. Worst of all, one of the greatest and most unique faculty has been terminated. This is not to say that UPenn is a better choice, but one should carefully think about coming to UCSF or comparing it with another school. The school is not the way it used to be anymore. God helps us!

Nice first post.

If it is really that bad, why hasn't there been more complaining by UCSF students on these boards?