sapience8x

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either here or on scutwork.com or sdn's new rotation sites (although i haven't been abel to get on). the information provided is really helpful and there was a paucity of path writeups. or is there a similar place where the path information is provided?
Thanks!
 

b&ierstiefel

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I'm gonna assume you're talking about pathology rotations :D

At University of Michigan we have a one month rotation in pathology. It is fairly flexible and students are free to sit in on signouts in the mornings and/or afternoons.

For instance, before Michigan switched from general to subspecialized signout, we had several general signout rooms such as Room 1 and Room 2. I spent a week in each room. Signout generally went from 8-12. Students were allowed to come in at 9 am though. The general atmosphere was laid-back, relaxed, but educational depending on the attending who was signing out the slides. In the afternoon, we had the option of doing whatever we wanted. We could either go home, attend other signouts (such as Gyn or derm signout), do autopsies, or tour around the clinical labs (micro, clinical chem, heme).

Another week was dedicated to hanging out in the autopsy area. The week I did autopsy, there were only a few autopsies. Thank god I didn't have to do an autopsy with yaah since I heard that he works you like a mofo! ;)

The fourth week is pretty flexible. You can do whatever you want that week. I went back to Room 1.

I must add that at Michigan, nobody is gonna make you gross. Basically you are an observer who sits in on signout and observes other stuff. If you wanna get some grossing experience, you need to be proactive...and the PAs are really nice about getting you some hands on experience. Furthermore, you can be proactive about being involved in previewing slides. However, as a student, you will most likely just get in the way of the resident's work. The residents have quite a few cases to go through and I figure that they don't need many other distractions.

At the end of the rotation, you turn in a paper or do a talk. All of us did a talk since it was easy to prepare. Quite a few path attendings attended the seminar hour were all 6 of us gave a 15 minute talk. We made our talks interesting but also entertaining and the environment was very laid back and fun.

If you would like to do an away rotation at Michigan, I do know that it is possible. I know of one person who did an away rotation here the month before I did my path rotation. If you would like to try to sign up, you will need to get in touch with Joe Fantone to set up the rotation.
 

yaah

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I did a month at Mayo which was a good experience as well, they are used to having away students. Basically I spent the mornings until lunch in the frozen/grossing room seeing everything that came through. Afternoons were spent reviewing the cases on permanent section from the day before (although Mayo does everything on frozen from the OR so it isn't as interesting or detailed to see them the next day). They also gave you leeway to do other stuff - I spent a couple of days seeing GI cases (mostly liver consults) and I was going to see autopsies but there weren't any. I also spent a lot of time with their voluminous study sets from previous consults. At the end of the month students do a presentation on a case, and extend it a little to give more detail and info. A good place - the residents are friendly and the attendings are also, although the attendings are quite busy and all have their own secretaries so you spend more time with the residents and fellows. But a lot of leeway to do what you want.
 
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sapience8x

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this is great! thanks! keep 'em coming.
do you recomend doing an away rotation? and then how many? should i choose the top 3 places that i want to go to and rotate there?
 

b&ierstiefel

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sapience8x said:
this is great! thanks! keep 'em coming.
do you recomend doing an away rotation? and then how many? should i choose the top 3 places that i want to go to and rotate there?
i would recommend you to do an away rotation if the pathology rotation at your institution is, by your standards, weak. some people choose to do away rotations at places where they hope to match the year after. i think this is smart and reflects quite a bit of forethought. ultimately, it depends on the experience you want to have and where you may want to end up going for your residency.

personally, i chose not to do an away rotation for a few reasons. first, i'm lazy. second, the pathology rotation here is good. third, i was only able to do 2 electives during M4 year. who knows though...maybe i should have done a pathology rotation at Brigham and schmooze with their attendings since i knew from the get-go that this was the place where i wanted to be after med school.
 

yaah

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sapience8x said:
this is great! thanks! keep 'em coming.
do you recomend doing an away rotation? and then how many? should i choose the top 3 places that i want to go to and rotate there?
I wouldn't go nuts trying to do rotations at every place you think you might be interested in...your fourth year is the last chance to try out other areas you might want to try - although if you are like a lot of path people you've probably had enough clinical med months anyway.

You definitely want to do at least one path rotation if you have minimal experience in the field. More than that isn't really necessary, but certainly doable. I did an away month because I was thinking of going to the midwest for residency and thought doing a month in the midwest might help people think I was serious about it. Plus, I wanted to see how a different program did things.
 

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I have wondered whether there is any risk in doing an away rotation. For example, let's say I originally want to go to institution A for residency, and I do an away rotation. Then, if I decide during residency interviews that I love institution B and want to go there, could it hurt me? Would institution B rank me lower b/c I rotated somewhere else, on the assumption that I'm hoping to go there? I guess, you should just be prepared to explain to other programs you interview with why you chose institution A and whether you are totally committed to them or not.

I didn't do any away rotations, but then, I really had no idea where I wanted to go for residency when I was doing my scheduling in 3rd year. I ended up doing 3 one-month rotations in my 4th year at my school - surg path, heme path, and autopsy.
 

b&ierstiefel

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geddy said:
I didn't do any away rotations, but then, I really had no idea where I wanted to go for residency when I was doing my scheduling in 3rd year. I ended up doing 3 one-month rotations in my 4th year at my school - surg path, heme path, and autopsy.
Wow...that sounds like a pretty good deal. Here, there are only two rotations that fall under the pathology department. One is the rotation in clinical pathology (which is a misnomer in the strict sense since we do mainly AP stuff as I indicated in my previous post above) and then there is a special topics in pathology rotation. The latter involves doing a research project in a pathology lab.
 

geddy

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AndyMilonakis said:
Wow...that sounds like a pretty good deal. Here, there are only two rotations that fall under the pathology department. One is the rotation in clinical pathology (which is a misnomer in the strict sense since we do mainly AP stuff as I indicated in my previous post above) and then there is a special topics in pathology rotation. The latter involves doing a research project in a pathology lab.
It's pretty cool - we have 17 path electives, in just about everything including a research project elective. A lot of the non-path 4th years do the forensics elective, because the hours are cushy.
 

b&ierstiefel

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geddy said:
It's pretty cool - we have 17 path electives, in just about everything including a research project elective. A lot of the non-path 4th years do the forensics elective, because the hours are cushy.
we have forensic psychiatry. apparently people show up on the first day...and that's it. the course fills up pretty quickly. it's not considered a path elective though...it's a psych elective instead.
 

doc4nsix

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sapience8x said:
this is great! thanks! keep 'em coming.
do you recomend doing an away rotation? and then how many? should i choose the top 3 places that i want to go to and rotate there?
I HIGHLY rec. doing away rotations!!! I did all of my electives away and have not one regret. I know what my home school has to offer. It's fun to meet new people and it's fun to travel. It doesn't have to be expensive if you pick cities where you have friends and can stay for free :cool: If you want to know more, PM me...
 

doc4nsix

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geddy said:
I have wondered whether there is any risk in doing an away rotation. For example, let's say I originally want to go to institution A for residency, and I do an away rotation. Then, if I decide during residency interviews that I love institution B and want to go there, could it hurt me? Would institution B rank me lower b/c I rotated somewhere else, on the assumption that I'm hoping to go there? I guess, you should just be prepared to explain to other programs you interview with why you chose institution A and whether you are totally committed to them or not.

I didn't do any away rotations, but then, I really had no idea where I wanted to go for residency when I was doing my scheduling in 3rd year. I ended up doing 3 one-month rotations in my 4th year at my school - surg path, heme path, and autopsy.
I did away rotations and this was not the case at all...people really aren't that petty...and if they are, f#$% 'em!!! At the schools where you do an away rotation, you can always say that you chose them because they are at the top of your list and you wanted to get a "real" feel for the program...other schools prob. won't care. And if they do...say you had friends in ______ city and could stay for free and that you didn't know anyone and school X where you are interviewing....I wrote to residents at my top schools during 3rd year and picked due to responses...things have worked out well!!!
 

b&ierstiefel

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doc4nsix said:
I did away rotations and this was not the case at all...people really aren't that petty...and if they are, f#$% 'em!!! At the schools where you do an away rotation, you can always say that you chose them because they are at the top of your list and you wanted to get a "real" feel for the program...other schools prob. won't care. And if they do...say you had friends in ______ city and could stay for free and that you didn't know anyone and school X where you are interviewing....I wrote to residents at my top schools during 3rd year and picked due to responses...things have worked out well!!!
wow...looks like you were real proactive and things worked out quite well :thumbup:
 

doc4nsix

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AndyMilonakis said:
wow...looks like you were real proactive and things worked out quite well :thumbup:
VERY proactive...it took a little work, but it has paid off. Plus, I had 2 months of vacation (I mean, rotations) in VERY cool cities and had a blast!!! That's what 4th year is all about... :cool:
 

b&ierstiefel

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doc4nsix said:
VERY proactive...it took a little work, but it has paid off. Plus, I had 2 months of vacation (I mean, rotations) in VERY cool cities and had a blast!!! That's what 4th year is all about... :cool:
word up!

which makes me think...why even have a 4th year of medschool if it's supposed to be a joke to begin with?

they should reduce surgery and medicine down to 6 weeks each. make peds and ob/gyn one month each. then you have 4 months of electives in 3rd year! :D
 

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AndyMilonakis said:
which makes me think...why even have a 4th year of medschool if it's supposed to be a joke to begin with?
I can answer that, with much feeling... :oops:

It's so that you actually have time to decide what specialty you weelly weelly want to go into and need not deal with the crap of the Match at the same time as being a newbie MS3 on the wards.