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Discussion in 'Podiatric Residents & Physicians' started by FRA, Dec 3, 2008.
Which do u recommend?? Which do u think has a better future?? which is easier to find a job?
How about dental school?
Caribbean grads get predominantly family practice, peds, PM&R, or lower teir ER or IM residencies. If you want to do a surgical specialty, you probably need to look elsewhere.
Both Carib and podiatry have fairly high attrition, though. I'm sure you could do well with either if you perform well and complete a solid residency, but simply getting accepted doesn't really mean a whole lot.
1) podiatry ofcourse....
2) depends on many many factors (stress, family-time, specialty, debt, etc)..M.D's will always be in demand....BUT....DPM's are starting to rise due to increased diabetes, life-expectancy, etc...etc...M.D's have nowhere near the knowledge of the foot/ankle like a good DPM....
3) Honestly, once you get the M.D & residency (US or FMG)---you can practice nearly anywhere in the world...TONS of jobs as an M.D.....Last time I checked FMG's provided around 25% of care to U.S population....On the flip side.....Podiatry is really mainstreamed here in the U.S...In UK/Aus. there's a difference between podiatrist & podiatric surgeon...For now, the best opportunities for a DPM is here in the U.S.....Sad, but true....
In regards to dentistry...Here's my 2 cents....I still work as a dental X-ray tech & have lots of dental experience..
Podiatry is emerging like dentistry did a few years ago....Everyone and their mom wants to be a damn dentist nowadays...lol...(yeah, I'm a former pre-dent till I shadowed a pod----then I was hooked)...4 years of extra school post undergrad + no residency required + cush lifestyle, & $150k+ salary is a tempting offer....But have you looked at the direction dentistry is headed?----Check out the dental forums...It's a hoot ....Hygienists becoming "advanced dental hyg. practitioners"---somewhat crossing the boundary between dentist & hygienist...With the economy the way it is, here in Florida & Georgia--dentists are struggling! I have (8) dental offices within a 1.5 mile radius from my house...2 MAJOR dental practices in Atlanta just closed b/c people can't afford going...Granted, it's not happening everywhere--but it sux....
Ok....Off my soapbox.......I'm going to
Be careful with Carib schools. Like mentioned they have high attrition as well as low match rates. Go for DO same thing as MD. Or you can become a Optometrist to.
To the OP, maybe you should try Podentistry. It has been mentioned in a thread recently. It combines podiatry and dentistry. I have heard that is an up and coming field and many ivy league schools are scrambling to start programs ASAP. It would be a great degree to have because you can then offer your services to two unique groups, versus lowly DPMs/DDSs that only have one patient set. Think about it!!!!!!!
Is that the foot in the mouth doctor.
Quit you hurting me ribs
Really good use of humor!
listen do you have something useful to say?
what is teamplayers problem? quit trolling!
Thats what i was thinking.
Go offshore to med school before podiatry.
It's not even close.
Podiatry doesn't have the postdoc training available to everyone.
The programs they have are often CRAP.
If you're intelligent go offshore and become an MD. If you think you can't hack it go to pod school. NO STRIKE THAT!
I'm a DPM and an MD. There is NO COMPARISON. The people encouraging podiatry in this thread are college students or brainwashed pos students.
I'm the real deal, only go to pod school if you've dreamed of being a podiatrist since you were 8 years old. Podiatry colleges will take your money, and you have maybe a 1 in 3 shot at an OK residency and a 1 in 10 shot at a great residency.
It is much much much better to be an FP or internist than a lowly pod.
Oh yeah def go to the Caribbean and end up graduating as an FMG. Good lucking matching into a nice residency program here, if you match at all. With the new MD schools opening up, residency spots are going to be tight. Who do you think will be given consideration first a USMD graduate or an FMG? Being an MD is Antigua can't be that bad, right?
Residency is available to anyone that works hard in podiatry school. Its really that simple, work hard, do well in your clinical years and you'll match into a residency program. If you work hard you get what you deserve, if you don't work hard then you get nothing. Why don't people understand that concept?
The DO's have opened up numerous schools + branch campuses (ie Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine in Florida, Philadelphia COM in Georgia) in the past few years. Hell, they even have a for-profit osteopath medical school now - Rocky Vista University in Colorado! That's a lot of new grads to be sent into residency soon, along with MD class sizes increasing (I believe by 20% overall). Seems like it will get a lot harder for these FMG to land residency spots, mind the fact the huge majority take leftover IM/FM/psych/ob positions in the first place. Not sure if Caribbean will be the most intelligent thing to do in the coming years.
I'll stick with podiatry myself. Caribbean is nice for vacation but for medical school, no thanks.
This thread has me, a former podiatrist and current physician who went to both podiatry school and a caribbean medical school, and all these other posters who have done neither. They have no experience to back up their posts.
Believe me, Podiatry will leave alot of deserving students left out when it comes to residency training. Many of the spots are pathetic. An orthopod I worked with said the pod residency where he trained was a joke, they would have 8 residents scrubbed in on a hammertoe. This had to be an exxageration. But, pod programs have a long way to go.
I knew pod students who were at the top of the class, who were completely left out. When I went to pod school it was who you knew or what was under your blouse that got you a good residency. I'm sure it's still true.
In short caribbean med school leads to a residency and good job.
podiatry school might, but it is just as likely to lead nowhere.
Without being disrespectful, your account says you're an attending doc who has a DPM and a MD. That would mean that, at minimum, you graduated pod school eight years ago (4+ years in MD school and 3+ in residency), right?.
I don't disagree that not all podiatry residencies are good ones, but there are quite a few high quality spots, and many more that are perfectly adequate if you apply yourself. Yes, of course some residencies out there have too many residents scrubbed in, but other ones have too many cases to even send a single resident to cover. I think that as long as you are at least an average pod student, you will get a good program. If you are flexible on location, that will greatly help your chances also.
Again, that may have been true a decade or more ago when you graduated pod school, but today, the programs have been standardized and shut down if they're totally inadequate. I'd say it's at least a 1/2 chance at a good quality residency training and a 1/4 shot at a great one. Of course a few people will end up with a bottom of the barrel residency, but that probably goes back to how they were as students.
I guess I better stuff my blouse at residency interviews this weekend?
I completely agree with this. Too often it seems people on here think just because they get into school they will be okay and everything will be hunky dory if they show up to class each day. The world is not always a nice place and everybody is not going to get what they want. The people who work the hardest and are the most qualified will get the good residencies that exist. If you are not one of those people, then too bad. If you are, then congratulations, you worked hard and deserve what you got. I plan on being one of those people, and I will use the idea of not getting a residency or a crappy one as motivation. People on here always talk about a specific instance of a pod that didn't do well and went to another profession. The real question is why didn't they do well, and what would they say to themselves if they looked into a mirror and said" did I do everything I could in pod school/residency to set myself up for success?"
I love capitalism. A black man with middle name of Hussein is president. If you work hard, you will get what you want.
What about what I have in my trousers?
Uh when did you grad Pod school, 1805? I mean come on man, horses & quinine were in vogue then but get real. How can alot of guys be signing huge contracts w/ bonuses of 150K, & yet YOU claim all will end up on food stamps? Yo my man, as an attending, do you "attend" to more than your garden?
I'm a DO student who had considered podiatry at one time. It is a great field with many opportunities in the future I believe. I think the other doc who had responded had it alot tougher in the years when he finished and most likely he is 100% in what he says. But, things have changed and continue to change. Look at how osteopathic medicine advanced -- that's how I think podiatry is going to as well.
Show tracheatoedoc some respect, he is still one of us, a DPM at heart. He is just calling it like he sees it.
What he says was true at one point, even I knew a lot of DPM students who were excellent in school and did not get the top spots. However, they still joined practices or groups or even set out on their own and did well.
And there are those who did top residencies and just did average or below avg in careers.
I think the offshore med schools are good if you research the residency aspect. If you feel like you will be tops and get a good residency then go for it, because the MD from offshore combined with a US residency means you can practice anywhere in North or South America, and some parts of Europe and Asia and Middle East.
The DPM, only works in the US. Even though there is an international federation of podiatry that includes places like UK, Spain, Aus/NZ, South Africa, your DPM does not mean much there, at least I dont think it means anything.
There is no way you can go to London England with a DPM and a 3 year surgical residency and start doing hammertoe and bunion surgery. You have to complete one of their surgical residencies. I dont think it is the same if you have an MD, meaning you just sit for a few of their board exams I think and then you are in.
Bottom line, do your research on how FMGs are treated and how easy it is to get a US residency.
In respect to other countries, I don't think having just an MD degree instead of the DPM will mean much for foot and ankle surgery. I lived in western europe and the only ones who did lower extremity surgery were ortho surgeons. That is quite a long residency (here and abroad) and in addition, very FEW people from Caribbean med schools land an ortho residency. It's hard enough for american grads! And from what I heard, its not as easy as just sitting for a few board exams to be able to practice in Europe (ie france, germany, etc). Maybe the UK and ireland are different though,but I've heard of such things as language tests for other countries. Bureaucracy is huge across the puddle.
With FMG's and residencies, yea its easy to get a residency but they usually get MD leftovers in primary care. Not everyone wants an FM/IM/ob/psych residency in the boonies or inner city. In addition, I'm curious what will happen in the future as DO schools keep shooting up and MD schools are increasing their output of doctors by 20% --> eventually less spots for foreign trained MD's. Just to note, the DO's have been creating all these new programs without creating new residency spots.
Podiatry has an old recruitment line. The future is so bright, aging population, mainstream in healthcare, the profession is evolving, blah,blah,blah.
There are not enough residency positions for graduates. The pod schools don't care, they just want your tuition. Good residencies are hard to come by.
Getting an MD and doing IM or FP in Bakersfield, CA will always be a better career option than podiatry. Podiatrists face discrimination daily and always will. Don't believe me? Become a pod and post here in 10 years.
I finished DPM 20 years ago. The state of podiatry has not significantly improved in that time. There may be a few jobs in multispecialty clinics. OK. No one is getting a 150k bonus to sign a contract. I agree there has been an improvement in privileges.
I will looking forward to it, sorry you hate podiatry so much! That's too bad. Hopefully you are happy not being one...right cause you have your DPM and your MD
I don't hate Podiatry. I had a great practice and miss it in some ways.
I dislike the fact that the structure of podiatric training is not better.
Incidentally, I looked up CASPR a few hours ago and can see that the residency situation IS much improved from eons ago. But, I would hesitate to spend 160,000 or more to get a DPM unless there was absolutely a good psr36 for every graduate. Keep working, Deans and Presidents, or don't accept more students than can be trained postgrad.
How can anyone disagree?
Who would say that the schools should admit as many as they can and if you can't get postgraduate training, thengoshdarnit you just didn't try hard enough.?!?
My man Trachs, in all honesty, what be the reason ANYONE would do Pods if the cash is in MD? I'm thinking to myself, who in their right head would waste clock doing Pods when the lucrativity is in allo? I see why you did it & maybe you're warning rookies here, but I don't see the mods that are full blown DPM's here quitting there day jobs to moonlight as bouncers at local dive bars & such. What truly gives boss? What's your takehome message here too? To scare or advise or screwup heads or..?
I honestly haven't heard very many DPMs wanting to switch fields. Although, I'm sure there are a few bad apples roaming about. From what I've seen, most are very happy with their profession. On the other hand, I have been hearing a lot of this:
An MD in the hospital I worked at: "Sheesh, I wish i would've done podiatry."
My family Doctor: "Podiatry is really fun, versatile and excellent for surgery!"
My Dentist: "I should've done podiatry. At least you don't have to pay 60k/year for tuition alone. That's like buying a new luxury car every year."
My podiatrist: "Are you sure you want to do podiatry? Why don't you do something more respectable, like a belly dancer!" (He really did say that)
So, it goes both ways.
as uber said, "it goes both ways."
How true that saying is.
There are DPMs that have a great life with no hassles making $150,000, and even more than that. In fact one of the other threads going on right now has a guy in private practice in SFO not accepting insurance (fee for service only) making $800,000 on a 40 hour work week.
There are also DPMs who just like you and I are quite bright but did not get a good residency position because not too long ago there were not enough spots for them. Not their fault because they truly did work hard. They have had to change careers or work at a lower level as a DPM compared to the recent grads. They dont really come here to post about their failures, would you? You would want to forget about that part of your life. They do not do a great deal of surgery and earning range from $60,000 to 120,000. Althought I am sure there are some that are very good at what they do (marketing, networking, etc) and earn a heck of a lot more.
There are also MDs who envy us but in all honesty a lot more of them dont respect us. Mainly because they dont feel like we are one of them. We dont have the "MD". They simply dont know what we do. Our new DPM graduates are changing that everyday by working with them in residency.
Here is a breakdown for you, very crude approximation of salaries, I have listed gross and net to give you an idea.
Just to be clear, Gross salary is the money you make from the practice BEFORE overhead (staff salay/payroll/rent/equip costs) is paid off and NET salary is what you take home after paying your expenses but BEFORE you pay your own income tax.
Also keep in mind that your income tax can reach levels of 30-40% of your net income. So if a DPM made a gross earning of $200,000, a good way to figure out net is to divide by 1/2, so net would be $100,000 and depending on where you live and your tax structure your net take home after income tax would be $100,000-30%= $70,000. This is simply an example.
Why am I posting the salaries below? Just to give you an idea that some MDs do envy our lifestyle and earnings. Keep in mind they have more complex pathology to deal with and harder on call times. And if they incorporate FP with OB then that is a dam rough lifestyle and the foot looks ever more appealing.
Specialty Gross Net
FP/GP $300-400K $150-200K
Radiology $400-800K $300-600K
IM $400-600K $200-300K
DPM $200-600K $100-300K
PLEASE DO NOT START A FLAME WAR OVER MY FIGURES!!! THEY ARE MY OWN PRIVATE ESTIMATES AFTER DISCUSSING WITH THE PEOPLE IN THE SPECIALTY. I HAVE POSTED THEM JUST AS AN FYI, DO NOT MSG ME ABOUT HOW FAR OFF I AM.
FP $140,000 guarantee to entice a youngster to join.
Rad $400,000 to $500k 12 weeks off a year
Podiatry a wide range I would guess a median income is 120,000
I did yesterday and it occurs to me today that the site lists enough psr36 programs to accomodate an entire graduating class from one school.
Using recently quoted numbers of 600+ students, and the roughly 100 spots I saw on the website. I didn't count. I also know for a fact that not all psr36's are worth doing.
Haha, saying PSR-36 is really dating you. Just to amend the numbers you quoted: I think the stats show around 400 students graduating this year and next, and the classes of 600 students will be graduating in 2011 and 2012 (my class). I did a brief count and came up with 150+ programs offering the PM&S-36 residencies and another 75 or so offering PM&S-24. If you figure that each program that offers PM&S-36 has around 2 spots per year on average, that is around 300 spots plus the PM&S-24 spots that will be converted to PM&S-36 spots in the next few years, that is at least 400. So I would think that this year and maybe next will be close as to everyone getting at least a residency, but after that, it will get a lot tighter unless several new programs are opened or spots added to existing ones. Will that lower the quality of some residencies as they try to add new spots and reduce the number of cases you see or increase the number of residents per case? Sure. Will some of the residencies be lower-quality? Absolutely. All prospective students should look at the situation and ask those in charge what they are doing to fix the problem. But I'm not sure why someone would come on here and tell people to absolutely not become podiatrists.
I am just pointing out that podiatry is failing it's graduates. If 600 students enter podiatry school this year, then there should be over 600 residency positions available.
Many of those PSR36 programs only take one resident. I went through several of them, and indeed most that I sampled had one spot.
Essentially, you don't know how many positions there are.
This is important information. I would not recommend going to pod school if there is only roughly a 50% chance of a surgical residency..Nearly every student entering Scholl next year will say they want a 3 year surgical residency. In 4 years half of them will not have that.
I agree, this is important. I'm not sure how I put words into your mouth. I'm agreeing with most of what you are saying, except I am giving a less-extreme view since I think you saying 50% won't get residencies is quite extreme. Especially since most (if not all) 2-year residencies will be switching to 3-year residencies. There is no denying that the residency situation is one the demands attention.
Ahh, the gist of what I'm getting from what's been said here so far is - that even if you GET a great residency you'll still flop as a DPM, period. I assume trachs is talking about insurance not picking up your billing, or referrals not sent your way due to the "incompetence" of a "lowly" DPM. Now if I'm putting "words in your mouth" let it be said that the "gist" is clearly evident ahem that a DPM is, obviously & clearly, subservient to an MD/DO. So big trachs, am I right on here or way off base? You make the call.
Isaid that there are not enough residency positions in podiatric surgery. true
I said going carib and doing internal medicine is a better career. generally true
never said lowly nor did I say incompetence. You did. Why?
I never said subservient. You did. Why?
I have no problem with pods. I don't look down on them.
All this second class profession crap is from you.
I simply said there are noy enough desirable postgrsd positions which is very true and podiatry must change that as an obligation to it's students and future.
You are a pod student. You will have deserving friends not get residencies, and they will end up trolling nursing homes.
GOOOOOOD CATCH BAHAAAAAA!!!
BIG Trach goes down in a heap!!!
Yea, residency training is improving yearly and in the very near future, I think all programs will be PM&S-36 as the majority now are. But I think there is still much work to be done.
First of all everyone needs to calm down and stop throwing out all of this nonsense. If you don't know the facts then please don't say anything. After reading this thread I did some research. The facts I am about to tell you come directly from the APMA and CPME. This list was updated as of 1/5/09.
Number of Residencies
PM&S 36 - 379
PM&S 24 - 97
PSR 24 - 4
PSR 12 -2
PPMR - 0
POR - 0
RPR - 3
Total - 485
(if that link does not work go to www.cpme.org click residencies, then click the link for approved residencies in podiatric medicine.)
I think a few things are evident from this data.
1) All of the 1 year residencies are being phased out.
2) There is a push to make everything a PM&S 36 year residency.
3) It is not true that 1/2 of podiatry graduates will not get a residency based on sheer availability. Almost every graduate will
4) For the new classes the residency situation is tight.
The president of the APMA spoke to our class a while back and said that many places contacted him in order to open up new programs as well as open up new positions within existing programs.
I would expect this number to continually rise and that every hard working deserving graduate from a podiatry school will get a residency and have a wonderful career. This is not wishful thinking.
If vision 2015 becomes a reality, even better.
Great find JackedUp, thanks for posting
Wow, OK it's not as bad as I thought. I still think that every syudent position should have a residency position and there should be some to spare.
Wjen I said lowly I should have Embraced it in quotation marks.
I don't look down on podiatry or podiatrists, but society kinda does.
That is the source of my use of "lowly"
Sorry if it hurt your feelings.
If 600 students, then 700 residencies. Make them beg not you.
What? Society has no idea. Most of them think we're MD specialists (and we might as well be at this point). But your point is well taken. Letting one student down is too many. I remember hearing that last year, they graduated 10 more students than there were residency slots but I'm not sure if that is true or not. Anybody know?
Your typing skills are getting worse on successive posts. Are you rushing to defend your "position" or admitting that either,
1) You're NOT an MD and NOT a DPM or
2) You've come home again from the bar drinking & "claiming" to be a doc or
3) You're just simply running out of bs to spout vs. DPMs.
I'm not sure which answer to chose. Which MCAT answer would you pick?
goodgrief you're a work of art. Its like a car wreck on the other side of the freeway.
What kind of an idiotic question is this. Podiatry Vs carribean!!! If you want to become a podiatrist you go to a podiatry school. if you want to become a MD you go to Medical school (be it US, carribean, mexico or china). a rational question would be "American med school vs carribean". This is not 2 month horse riding course or some computer training course which you wanna take based on income or comfort. you have to enjoy what you are doing in school and this is gonna be there for the rest of your life. We have heroes who join podiatry bcoz they got rejected from med schools, pharm schools,dent schools and they later end up disgruntled or try to compare themselves with MDs or Orthos.
What we need is some serious orientation to prepods about real podiatry. we have people who confuse podiatry with Foot & Ankle orthopedic surgeons. No these are two different professions.we are not just surgeons.we are Foot and ankle specialist. we do everything in foot. Surgery is one of many choices we have in our arsenal and we use it as our last resort. You are not gonna be cutting bunions or doing Internal fixations for fractures every single day.
Based on my research and observing patients in summer at three different pod offices. the most common cases are ingrown toenails, basic pallitative foot care, diabetic foot management, sports injuries, trauma,etc. If you are joining podiatry expecting you will be in OR 6days a week or just dealing orthopedic cases than i strongly advise you to join medical school and do orthopedic residency followed by a foot & ankle fellowship. They have a different patient base and we have a different patient base.One of the most common and idiotic excuse many people make when asked why they join podiatry is " i like orthopedics and to become orthopedic surgeon it takes long time so im joining podiatry as its direct specialization." they are the major core who end up disappointed when they really see the diversity of medical conditions we encounter and surgery is just an aspect of it. Speaking economically, medicare in state of illinois pays $150-$200 for a hammertoe surgery (and you have to medically manage the patient for 90 days for free after that). An ingrown toenail pays $100 and it takes just 5-10 mins. debriding corns/calluses $50-$100 (hardly 10 mins), Orthotics cost $350-500 compared to a $700 bunion surgery. The richest podiatrists are not people who are great surgeons. they practice simple and basic podiatry.. You should shadow both orthopedic surgeon as well as a podiatrist. Iam not making this stuff up but in summer i observed a pod in wisconsin who did 10 ingrown toe nail surgeries in a week and was paid $250-$400 (Bluecross blueshield) for each. he prescribed a good number of orthotics (thats another $350-$400 each a piece). He makes nearly $200K net income. And he had referrals from orthos, DOs, MDs. He inturn refered his rearfoot surgery patients to the ortho. it became a mutal relationship and both respect each other. You may learn anything in school but whats outthere in market is real. We have to be adaptive. Btw Foot & Ankle ortho does other ortho surgeries also to meet his daily needs and thats why one should not compare their salaries to pods. there are very few pure F&A orthos out there.
I am not saying that we dont do surgeries at all or discouraging it. Ofcourse we do and many pods are active surgeons but i really want to stress that surgery is not the only thing we do. we manage foot infections, take care of foot derm problems, correct deformities using biomechanic skills, etc.
Seeing the number of threads in our forums like "do we do ER", "do we do majority surgeries", "do we prescribe everything", "do we teach orthos". I feel that many people are joining podiatry with a preset idea in mind that they are entering a highly specialized surgical subspeciality or an alternative to orthopedics,etc. and this question "Carribean Vs Podiatry" falls in that line. Plzz do yourself a favor and shadow few pods before committing 7yrs of life.
I strongly encourage people to shadow both MD (Foot & ankle surgeon) and a DPM before making a choice if their main intention is surgery. Remember Surgery is one of many options a podiatry has, its not the sole option.
Yeah this thread has turned a little bit. I believe my original post(frankly I'm too lazy too review my posts) was that going to the caribbean and getting an MD was better than getting a DPM. Now, that is my opinion. Just as many people here have the opinion that Podiatry is the greatest profession out there.
I am indeed both a DPM and an MD.
The MD thing is easy.
The DPM thing can be a challenge.
There is discrimination. You will have to wait and see.
The residency situation is much improved and that is encouraging.
Nobody looks down on podiatrist. its what we percieve of ourselves and our own inferiority complexes that make us feel that way. We own an MRI Clinic and one radiologist group projects the other radiologist group in a bad way just bcoz the docs there went to a community residency program while the other went to a univ program.
Whereever there will be competition. there will be personal attacks. If you see the archives , someone mentioned that an Ortho gave an ad in his local town tv channel warning people not to go to pods for surgery and other wild accusations.
If there are 10 F & A ortho docs in a town of 40000 and you open a shop there expecting them to send their patients to you for surgery then thats day dreaming. Their reaction to a DPM will be the same to a new F&A ortho in town. they just dont want to loose their patients or money. If you inturn decide to offer them some complex surgery patients and ask them to send some foot stuff to you then you will establish a very healthy relationship and good referral base. By referring complex surgery stuff you are not proving your training or education is low. you are just being adaptive and trying to have a symbiotic relationship. yeah if you are in a town of 40000 and the only F&A specialist (no ortho,no F&A ortho) then automatically you will get all complex foot stuff to you. its all about your location and the existing docs there.There are radiologists in chicago who do this. one radiologist just reads abdomen MRIs and asks us to refer orthopedic stuff to another radiologist. Its all about mutual respect and competition.
leave discrimination by MDs/DOs. the canadian pod grads will be (or are) discriminated by older pods in the state of ontario. the law there prevents new highly and better trained pods to practice thanks to the older established pods. now who is looking down on pods? the big bad Ortho or DO or MD? its pods themselves. everyone tries to protect their patient base.
Nobody looks down upon anybody. At the end of the day its about money. You give them a good patient base. they will response to you positively and will respect you equally. Heck i have seen Chirocpractor Radiologist being respected by Interventional radiologist and treated as an equal radiologist just because he refers tons of patients to them. im not kidding. he is treated as if he is a real radiologist. he reads MRIs referred by Chiros and sends anything thats not spine to the MD radiology group. I was suprised to see the respect and affection he commands in that group. And you know the reason......