Podiatry Misconception

[Makaveliforever]

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I think this field is great and is totally right for me..... there is one thing I can't stand though, it is that it sometimes is not taken seriously. For one thing, I feel like after looking through school statistics too many students can get into the school and sometimes those less qualified end up in the same class as those who are strong enough academically to be there. This causes the misconception that podiatry school is "easy" (in terms of graduate schools). I can't stand that, I know that I worked hard and so have many of you.... hopefully people will get a reality check when they start and see how difficult it really is and how comprable it is to medical school..... just something annoying me a little as I prepare for school in fall......

 

[NatCh]

I think this field is great and is totally right for me..... there is one thing I can't stand though, it is that it sometimes is not taken seriously. For one thing, I feel like after looking through school statistics too many students can get into the school and sometimes those less qualified end up in the same class as those who are strong enough academically to be there. This causes the misconception that podiatry school is "easy" (in terms of graduate schools). I can't stand that, I know that I worked hard and so have many of you.... hopefully people will get a reality check when they start and see how difficult it really is and how comprable it is to medical school..... just something annoying me a little as I prepare for school in fall......

Trust me, it doesn't end when school does. You may as well learn how to deal with it now. The interesting thing is that even amongst different specialties, there's a lot of disrespect. Hand surgeons don't think the Plastic surgeons are qualified to work on the hand, Internists think Family Practitioners dumb, Pulmonologists think Internists are dumb, Anesthesiologists think that they are red-headed step-children...the prejudice and insecurity goes on and on. IMO, the best thing to do is to be secure in your own career choice and do the best you know how. Take pride in making patients better and laugh when someone takes a pot shot at you. The amount of gratitude I receive when I help a patient far outweighs any negativity that comes with the job.

Speaking of which, did you all see The In-Laws?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0314786/plotsummary

I laughed my HEAD off at the portrayal of podiatrists by Albert Brooks. From the fanny pack to the cautious temperament, it was perfect! After you attend a few conferences, you'll see what I mean. The writers probably thought to themsleves, "Let's see...what would be the polar opposite of a daredevil Secret Agent? I know...a PODIATRIST!"

 

[jonwill]

I think this field is great and is totally right for me..... there is one thing I can't stand though, it is that it sometimes is not taken seriously. For one thing, I feel like after looking through school statistics too many students can get into the school and sometimes those less qualified end up in the same class as those who are strong enough academically to be there. This causes the misconception that podiatry school is "easy" (in terms of graduate schools). I can't stand that, I know that I worked hard and so have many of you.... hopefully people will get a reality check when they start and see how difficult it really is and how comprable it is to medical school..... just something annoying me a little as I prepare for school in fall......

While it is true that some of the schools are very easy to get into, getting through is another story. And boards are the equalizer. The students that truly don't belong won't get by boards.

The real problem is that there are still free-standing pod schools. For those programs that are with medical schools, there is a lot less financial burden. These schools can afford to have very high standards. For those schools on their own, tuition money is life. If you start rejecting people, the school dies. That is why I think it is extremely important that all programs be located at and affiliated with MD/DO schools. This is the only true way to raise the bar.

 

[Arwana]

I think this field is great and is totally right for me..... there is one thing I can't stand though, it is that it sometimes is not taken seriously. For one thing, I feel like after looking through school statistics too many students can get into the school and sometimes those less qualified end up in the same class as those who are strong enough academically to be there. This causes the misconception that podiatry school is "easy" (in terms of graduate schools). I can't stand that, I know that I worked hard and so have many of you.... hopefully people will get a reality check when they start and see how difficult it really is and how comprable it is to medical school..... just something annoying me a little as I prepare for school in fall......

I have a different opinion...
Because podiatry is a "new-profession" by comparison to some of the other specialties I think podiatry is less respected (in some cases) than other areass of medicine which have been around since medicine was in its infancy.
While I did "decent" in my undergraduate my grades were not "stellar" though I did the best I knew how. My father is a D.O. and that was the direction I was heading until a friend turned me on to the idea (and many benefits) of podiatry. For those of us that study hard and feel they have a better handle on the information than our actual grades reflect Podiatry is a welcome sight as it enables those who will be compassionate and able physicians to get in without playing the "number-game" as much as other fields (MD/DO) which have to set their number standards so high because of the huge volume of applications every year.
With a little time I think podiatrists will get equal footing in the medical community. I think podiatrists are close to being there if they're not there already. For ex: Dr. Armstrong DPM who has a number of positions at the Scholl college has been the keynote speaker at conferences held primarily for MD's. That likely would have been unheard of not too many years ago.

 

[CareBear9984]

I agree with the points made by both Arwana and Jonwill. I believe that initially the challenge to get into the podiatry schools isn't there - but as Arwana states, this does give the "underdogs" a chance to do what they've always wanted to do without the burden of meeting high score standards. This is not to say that all applicants are under-average or average, though. Podiatry is something I only recently saw myself doing - this revelation came about a year ago. After researching and growing to love the field more and more, I decided, much like Jonwill states, that getting accepted is really only the starting line. While some MD and DO students may feel that acceptance is all that really matters, for DPMs it's an entirely different and unique ideal. By undergoing the challenges of the podiatric curriculum over the course of the four years, a podiatry student essentially proves his or her worth in that field (by doing well, staying ahead of the game, not failing out, etc.) By the time that student reaches graduation, he or she may feel an entirely different and heightened sense of accomplishment in comparison to what he or she may have felt at the time of acceptance. In order to feel that one has accomplished something truly remarkable it's important to go the distance - in other words, you can lead a student to the door, but it's up to the student to walk through it.

Once those goals are met, the high grades are obtained, and school/residency are completed, that particular student shouldn't need the approval or recognition from other doctors in other fields to feel a sense of accomplishment and self-worth. While respect from other doctors and even people of other professions is important and deserved, it doesn't always happen. Thus, it shouldn't dictate the validity of one's profession. If you have worked hard all your life to get to this point and have done your very best to be the best podiatrist you can be, who cares what any other doctor thinks? This field most certainly deserves recognition and respect, but the first place it will receive it will be from its own students and physicians. Only then will this projected image make its mark on the rest of the medical community.

 

[Arwana]

CareBear9984...are you related to that Churchill guy? What's his name...Winston or something 🙂 I very nearly had a tear rolling down my cheek by the end of your post! ha, I'm just messing with you. It really was a well written response though. If podiatry doesn't work out...you should try motivational speaking or something! 🙂

 

[AnkleSprain]

haha i cried a little bit

 

[Dr. Gangrene]

I have a different opinion...
Because podiatry is a "new-profession" by comparison to some of the other specialties I think podiatry is less respected (in some cases) than other areass of medicine which have been around since medicine was in its infancy.
While I did "decent" in my undergraduate my grades were not "stellar" though I did the best I knew how. My father is a D.O. and that was the direction I was heading until a friend turned me on to the idea (and many benefits) of podiatry. For those of us that study hard and feel they have a better handle on the information than our actual grades reflect Podiatry is a welcome sight as it enables those who will be compassionate and able physicians to get in without playing the "number-game" as much as other fields (MD/DO) which have to set their number standards so high because of the huge volume of applications every year.
With a little time I think podiatrists will get equal footing in the medical community. I think podiatrists are close to being there if they're not there already. For ex: Dr. Armstrong DPM who has a number of positions at the Scholl college has been the keynote speaker at conferences held primarily for MD's. That likely would have been unheard of not too many years ago.

I think that is one of the biggest problems w/ podiatry. A lot of people say "Well, I did not do well enough for m.d. or d.o., so I will do pod". I hope we get to the point where people are choosing pod as a primary profession. I know some do, but it is those that don't do so well in school but go to pod just to be a Doc that bring it down.

As for "I am better than my grades show"... I know grades are not everything. There is much more to being a good doctor than passing classes.
But there has to be a criteria to evaluate against. I personally do not want someone w/ no common sense as my foot surgeon.

The MCAT is the key. If you suck in class, and pull a 2.0 gpa, but get a 30+ on the MCAT, that probably lends some credence to the idea that you can learn things, just do poorly in class. If your grades and MCAT suck, maybe you should not be working on people.

 

[PODonny]

This field most certainly deserves recognition and respect, but the first place it will receive it will be from its own students and physicians. Only then will this projected image make its mark on the rest of the medical community.

Great Post! 👍

This is something that has really been stressed by the administration here at DMU. When this topic comes up, the dean and profs feel very strongly that the self image is the first step to squashing the idea that pods not viewed as equals to DOs and MDs. It's not possible to gain the respect of our peers if we don't see ourselves as equals.

 

[krabmas]

Great Post! 👍

This is something that has really been stressed by the administration here at DMU. When this topic comes up, the dean and profs feel very strongly that the self image is the first step to squashing the idea that pods not viewed as equals to DOs and MDs. It's not possible to gain the respect of our peers if we don't see ourselves as equals.

In addition to the self image as pod students on rotations with med students and on residency on external rotations the worst thing that we can do is say... "do we need to know that?" or "do the pods have to do that?" or even " we don't need to know that" everytime those statements are said it separates us from them. And trust me, you are not just representing yourself when you are out there. You are representing all of podiatry everytime you tell someone you are a pod.

Just something to think about when you are rotating and do not want to do the work that the others do. This makes them think that we are so different.

 

[Feli]

In addition to the self image as pod students on rotations with med students and on residency on external rotations the worst thing that we can do is say... "do we need to know that?" or "do the pods have to do that?" or even " we don't need to know that" everytime those statements are said it separates us from them. And trust me, you are not just representing yourself when you are out there. You are representing all of podiatry everytime you tell someone you are a pod.

Just something to think about when you are rotating and do not want to do the work that the others do. This makes them think that we are so different.

Exactly. Very good stuff to keep in mind.^

I think this even applies before clinics. Almost any student will try to do well in pod classes and impress DPM faculty for obvious purposes of grades, LORs, and residency considerations. However, when I sit in a Gen Surg, ER, Phys Diagnosis, or Int Med lecture given by a MD or DO and there's 10-25 students there (yet miraculously 50 on test day!), it kinda makes me wonder what that doc is thinking and telling his colleagues about the work ethic of pod students...

I'm sure clinics is even more important, though. There, you are actually side-by-side with MD and DO students, so they might be expecting the pod student to be saying "we don't have to know that" and "can I go home/to lunch/etc?" You can either give them what they half-expect or be interested and educated just like they are...

 

[bocajuniors]

the way i look at it is this... i wanna know everything about the human body becuase it will help me be a better podiatrist and second in an emergency situation with the old cliche "is there a doctor in the house?" and you say "i'm a doctor but all i know is feet and thats a head injury" so you never know when old skills will be needed (which i hope for all of us never have to be used)

 

[CareBear9984]

😀

CareBear9984...are you related to that Churchill guy? What's his name...Winston or something 🙂 I very nearly had a tear rolling down my cheek by the end of your post! ha, I'm just messing with you. It really was a well written response though. If podiatry doesn't work out...you should try motivational speaking or something! 🙂

Haha, you're sweet! Thanks, though! This is just something I'm really excited about - so I guess I was just attempting to share my enthusiasm 🙂

 

[PODonny]

the way i look at it is this... i wanna know everything about the human body becuase it will help me be a better podiatrist and second in an emergency situation with the old cliche "is there a doctor in the house?" and you say "i'm a doctor but all i know is feet and thats a head injury" so you never know when old skills will be needed (which i hope for all of us never have to be used)

👍

It makes me a little upset when some students think they should be treated as equals, but don't want to put in the effort to do so. It can't hurt to know other medicine too. We went through this in pretty much every course this year, but especially so in PD. I know that a pod probably will never have to do a rectal exam...but if you would get asked to do that on a rotation or something, wouldn't it be nice to know what you're doing, rather than look dumbfounded.

 

[SugarNaCl]

...and DOs aren't as well respected in the medical community as MDs either. Dental school nationally has more competitive stats than DO school. MDs take the cake overall. I wouldn't trust a world renouned neurosurgeon to work on my feet. That's the bottom line. Believe in yourself, your specialty and what you are doing. As a future dentist and you as a future podiatrist, we will have much better schedules than most MDs. That's good enough for me.

 

[Feli]

...and DOs aren't as well respected in the medical community as MDs either...

Don't believe everything you read on SDN in threads of first year MD students and first year DO students jockeying for position and citing (largely ficticous or embellished) anecdotal stories of doctor's lounge conversations or no patients wanting a DO surgeon.

I think a lot depends on the area/hospital and the physician in question. In the places I've worked, you wouldn't even know which docs were MDs and which were DOs (or DPMs if you didn't know pod was a separate degree) unless you asked around. I'm sure patients have even less idea.

To me, the ego and "respect" thing seems to be blown way out of proportion among the pre-health professional students and beginning graduate health students. If pride is such an issue, I guess some people should keep re-taking the MCAT and going to SMP programs until the get into an elite MD school. However, even if they make it through, they'll just be mad that they matched with IM and not radio... or ER and not ortho surg... or that they managed to match with plastics but their co-resident who went to a better school or has better skill gets more of the glory. It really seems that some people just won't be totally happy no matter what.

Personally, I'd rather just be the best at what I do and not get caught up in the BS.

Regardless of your degree or specialty, if you're competent in your specialty arena and consistently get good or great patient outcomes, you will get respect and referrals from other providers. If you get fair or better results and are good at dealing with people, you will probably get even more referrals from other patients and community members.

 

[SugarNaCl]

I'm not saying it should be that way, and I am not saying that there aren't DOs that are better than MDs. All I am saying is that in the medical community, it is generally thought that if you can't get into an MD program, you take the DO route. It isnt just in this forum... it is the thought that is shared in the research hospital that I have been working in for the past 3 yrs as well. I agree... it isn't just! Actually, two things astounded me. One was someone who asked if a DO takes care of animals, and another that asked if DO means "drop out"... in her defense, the second one was a rather gullible hairdresser. Just worry about your own field... you know? If you want to go MD/DO do it. If you want to go DDS, do it. If you want to go DPM do it. They shouldn't be compared.

 

[Arwana]

😀

Haha, you're sweet! Thanks, though! This is just something I'm really excited about - so I guess I was just attempting to share my enthusiasm 🙂

It'll be great to be surrounded by you and others like you at Scholl who are stoked to the extreme to be podiatrists. And to think I was feeling like the lone-podiatry-geek!
😀Future feet (and...well... the rest of the patients as well!) are damn lucky to have such enthusiasm and motivation working in their behalf! 😀

 

[Arwana]

I think that is one of the biggest problems w/ podiatry. A lot of people say "Well, I did not do well enough for m.d. or d.o., so I will do pod". I hope we get to the point where people are choosing pod as a primary profession. I know some do, but it is those that don't do so well in school but go to pod just to be a Doc that bring it down.

As for "I am better than my grades show"... I know grades are not everything. There is much more to being a good doctor than passing classes.
But there has to be a criteria to evaluate against. I personally do not want someone w/ no common sense as my foot surgeon.

The MCAT is the key. If you suck in class, and pull a 2.0 gpa, but get a 30+ on the MCAT, that probably lends some credence to the idea that you can learn things, just do poorly in class. If your grades and MCAT suck, maybe you should not be working on people.

I agree 100% that there must be a criterion such (as grades) to gauge a person's abilities and intelect. However, there is a part of me that is torn over that as well. I did decent both in school and the MCAT...well enough that I was getting interview requests from DO schools (My dad is a DO and so I was biased toward becoming a DO over an MD because of the osteopathic manipulation aspect of the education, etc.). That was before I was made aware of podiatry and fell in love with the field. (yes, I said it, "LOVE" 😍)

Here is why I am torn: You may know the material and it's application so much better than anyone around you, but because of your arrogance you still do things carelessly and put your patients at risk. Or you are brilliant but have zero humor/people skills. Call me crazy, but I think there is a LOT more to healing than knowing what procedures to perform or medications to dish. (Although those aspects are, of course, ESSENTIAL) I am happy to know that there are clinical evaluations and other means of gauging a future physician/podiatrist in medical school which allows for the testing of not only your knowledge but also your abilities to interact with patients and so on.
I agree with your opinion that a 2.0 physician should likely NOT be working on patients. Not because those with a 2.0 are stupid but because I think anyone half trying would be much closer to a 3.0 or above.
I think we're on the same lines, I just had to stand on my soap-box for a few and thump on my chest like tarzan. (insert tarzan smiley here)

 

[person2004]

I'm an MD. I'm not sure why I read the podiatry posts today. Slow afternoon I guess. Anyway, I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.
A) it isn't MD/DO, it's MD or DO.
B) most likely podiatry school is both easier to get in and easier to get through and many podiatry students chose to apply after being rejected to md schools.
C) Don't sweat it. You've chosen a great career.
D) I suspect that if podiatry were a medical specialty after MD school instead of a separate degree, it would be one of the more competative specialties. Lots of people go to medical school and realize that a life practicing many of the specialties is kinda crappy so we fight over the few with a decent income and lifestyle. A lot of people don't get what they want. You go to podiatry school and you know you'll have a good income and lifestyle, and you don't have to be miserable for years to get there. Anyway, I wanted to say the most competitive type of school isn't necessarily the best and you could do a lot wprse than podiatry. Having less public esteem should be easy to take when you are enjoying life with your family while an md in many specialties is working all night like a dog.

PS: I'd imagine all this stuff has been discussed before, but since I never read a podiatry thread before it seems new to me. Anyway, good luck, congrats, etc.

PPS: Don't get me wrong, I'm lucky enough to be in a good md specialty and I'm glad to be an md, but since I had to intern in internal medicine and saw how miserable it can be, I'm sure you made a better choice than anyone unlucky enough to have internal medicine as a career.

 

[jonwill]

B) most likely podiatry school is both easier to get in and easier to get through and many podiatry students chose to apply after being rejected to md schools.

While in general podiatry school is easier to get into, I don't think it is any easier to get through.

 

[krabmas]

While in general podiatry school is easier to get into, I don't think it is any easier to get through.

I agree with Jonwill. It is easier to get into but not easier to get thru, especially if you want to do well and get a good residency. Just like MD school if you do poorly in school getting a good residency will not happen.

 

[Feli]

...I suspect that if podiatry were a medical specialty after MD school instead of a separate degree, it would be one of the more competative specialties. Lots of people go to medical school and realize that a life practicing many of the specialties is kinda crappy so we fight over the few with a decent income and lifestyle. A lot of people don't get what they want...

...I had to intern in internal medicine and saw how miserable it can be...

Exactly right.^

It's my view that many pod students have no idea how lucky they are to have "ended up" in the specialty.

"The whole pattern of medical education is backwards: by the time we realize we're not going to be TV docs undressing ripe-titted beauties, but rather House docs disempacting gomers, we've invested too much to quit, and we wind up like you poor slobs: stuck. The sequence of training should be reversed: on day one, bring in the puking BMSs right into the House of God and rub their noses in Olive O. Turn off potential surgeons with her humps, potential internal medicine red-hots with her numbers incompatible with life and her inability to be cured or dead. Even potential gynecologists will take one look at the terrain of their future specialty and transfer into dentistry. And then - only then - let the ones who still have the stomach for it start on the preclinical years."
-the Fat Man, from Shem's novel, House of God

 

[PMSIII]

While in general podiatry school is easier to get into, I don't think it is any easier to get through.

I couldn't agree more. People often forget that most of our schools are private institutions. So at the end of the day, generating income is an objective. The fact remains that our specialty (population wise) is still small, our application pool is relatively small (compared to MD or DO or DDS schools), so with that kept in mind, schools will admit excellent candidates and average (sometimes below average) ones as well, with the preset notion of generating income to run the school.

However, as jonwill said, this does not mean that school is "easier" to get through. If one aspires to obtain a solid residency, hard work and good grades are a must. Competition for good residencies is definitely prevalent, which means that the standards and quality of residency applicants are only getting higher.

 

[CareBear9984]

I couldn't agree more. People often forget that most of our schools are private institutions. So at the end of the day, generating income is an objective. The fact remains that our specialty (population wise) is still small, our application pool is relatively small (compared to MD or DO or DDS schools), so with that kept in mind, schools will admit excellent candidates and average (sometimes below average) ones as well, with the preset notion of generating income to run the school.

However, as jonwill said, this does not mean that school is "easier" to get through. If one aspires to obtain a solid residency, hard work and good grades are a must. Competition for good residencies is definitely prevalent, which means that the standards and quality of residency applicants are only getting higher.

Well stated!

 

[tea_tu]

B) most likely podiatry school is both easier to get in and easier to get through and many podiatry students chose to apply after being rejected to md schools.

I never considered going to an MD school, therefore I never applied so then was never rejected. I've met quiet a few pod students that were really down to earth and extremely hard working. Many were also socially and academically well rounded. It was meeting these types of people that got me intrigued about the profession and not because of being rejected by anything else. Go pod-people! 👍

 

[whiskers]

Good Points PMSIII.