Podiatry Oversupply

[Dochopeful13]

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I will be applying for pod school next year. As I was looking at the job outlook I came across this projection. Can someone smarter than me explain how there possibly can be an oversupply of podiatrists by 2025?

https://bhw.hrsa.gov/sites/default/...ctions/chiropractorspodiatristsapril2015_.pdf

I assumed having a residency protects against saturation? Is this something future pods should worry about?

 

[med2345]

I will be applying for pod school next year. As I was looking at the job outlook I came across this projection. Can someone smarter than me explain how there possibly can be an oversupply of podiatrists by 2025?

https://bhw.hrsa.gov/sites/default/...ctions/chiropractorspodiatristsapril2015_.pdf

I assumed having a residency protects against saturation? Is this something future pods should worry about?

Even with the adequacy according by that source...I don’t think there will ever be a real worry considering there’s only 9 schools. Atleast, it will never be nearly as bad as pharmacy or even dental/optometry (and now even PAs w/ NPs). Maybe saturated areas of the country (around the schools possibly) but that’s true for any type of specialty in medicine. I think podiatry is really hard to gauge the need due to the baby boomers aging now but (not to mention crazy obesity and diabetes), as of now when I talk to other doctors in the hospital they always complain how there needs to be more podiatrists in the area as there are too many patients. All the patients that came when I was shadowing were talking about how long it took to get an appointment, and I’m in the northeast. I could be wrong but I’d like to see other people’s opinions.

 

[bobtheweazel]

I just skimmed it but I don't think it really makes sense considering podiatry schools used to graduate 700+ students per year in the 70s and now graduate 500+ students per year. So simple math tells us there has already been a steady decline in supply of podiatrists over time and presumably an increased demand since the podiatry training and scope of practice has improved significantly in that time, making podiatrists more appealing to hospital systems and medical groups.

Even with the Council on Podiatric Medical Education recently lifting the moratorium on schools opening and now allowing increases in class sizes, they're still going to limit growth of matriculation based on growth of residencies, which is a slow process. I just don't see it. The moratorium lasted from 2005 until pretty much now, which means there was no growth in podiatry over that time period, including the classes that won't graduate until 2021 and be out of residency until 2024. So unless they increase the overall podiatry matriculants number from around 600 to around 4600 this next year, obviously ridiculous, then no there won't be a growth in supply of podiatrists by about 4000 within that time.

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[msion]

They must be assuming that people never retire. A great majority of the healthcare workforce are in their late 50s now. The attrition rate seems a bit low.

 

[Dochopeful13]

Thanks guys. That makes feel a lot better. Podiatry seems like such a great field, I was completely shocked when I saw those numbers.

I just skimmed it but I don't think it really makes sense considering podiatry schools used to graduate 700+ students per year in the 70s and now graduate 500+ students per year. So simple math tells us there has already been a steady decline in supply of podiatrists over time and presumably an increased demand since the podiatry training and scope of practice has improved significantly in that time, making podiatrists more appealing to hospital systems and medical groups.

Even with the Council on Podiatric Medical Education recently lifting the moratorium on schools opening and now allowing increases in class sizes, they're still going to limit growth of matriculation based on growth of residencies, which is a slow process. I just don't see it. The moratorium lasted from 2005 until pretty much now, which means there was no growth in podiatry over that time period, including the classes that won't graduate until 2021 and be out of residency until 2024. So unless they increase the overall podiatry matriculants number from around 600 to around 4600 this next year, obviously ridiculous, then no there won't be a growth in supply of podiatrists by about 4000 within that time.

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[GypsyHummus]

So they did lift the moratorium.

I just skimmed it but I don't think it really makes sense considering podiatry schools used to graduate 700+ students per year in the 70s and now graduate 500+ students per year. So simple math tells us there has already been a steady decline in supply of podiatrists over time and presumably an increased demand since the podiatry training and scope of practice has improved significantly in that time, making podiatrists more appealing to hospital systems and medical groups.

Even with the Council on Podiatric Medical Education recently lifting the moratorium on schools opening and now allowing increases in class sizes, they're still going to limit growth of matriculation based on growth of residencies, which is a slow process. I just don't see it. The moratorium lasted from 2005 until pretty much now, which means there was no growth in podiatry over that time period, including the classes that won't graduate until 2021 and be out of residency until 2024. So unless they increase the overall podiatry matriculants number from around 600 to around 4600 this next year, obviously ridiculous, then no there won't be a growth in supply of podiatrists by about 4000 within that time.

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[bobtheweazel]

So they did lift the moratorium.

They did.

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[de Ribas]

and now even PAs w/ NPs

I do not know much about how many NP/PA programs there are, but from what I have seen, NP programs do not take many students per year. Maybe around 10-15?
Still, every little and large town is hiring NPs every single day. There is a huge demand for NPs right now. Just look at some hospital websites, they have multiple openings all the time.

 

[med2345]

I do not know much about how many NP/PA programs there are, but from what I have seen, NP programs do not take many students per year. Maybe around 10-15?
Still, every little and large town is hiring NPs every single day. There is a huge demand for NPs right now. Just look at some hospital websites, they have multiple openings all the time.

Read again I'm saying PAs due to the increases in NPs and also PAs. Especially in my area a huge local hospital just laid off 100 PA's and a few friends I know that graduated the past year are traveling quite bit to find a job (or taking slightly lower salaries out of desperation). Im not referring to NP's. Could just be a local thing but I looked at HRSA and there is also a oversupply of PA according to them in the coming years. Not RN/NP though.

 

[de Ribas]

I just skimmed it but I don't think it really makes sense considering podiatry schools used to graduate 700+ students per year in the 70s and now graduate 500+ students per year. So simple math tells us there has already been a steady decline in supply of podiatrists over time and presumably an increased demand since the podiatry training and scope of practice has improved significantly in that time, making podiatrists more appealing to hospital systems and medical groups.

Even with the Council on Podiatric Medical Education recently lifting the moratorium on schools opening and now allowing increases in class sizes, they're still going to limit growth of matriculation based on growth of residencies, which is a slow process. I just don't see it. The moratorium lasted from 2005 until pretty much now, which means there was no growth in podiatry over that time period, including the classes that won't graduate until 2021 and be out of residency until 2024. So unless they increase the overall podiatry matriculants number from around 600 to around 4600 this next year, obviously ridiculous, then no there won't be a growth in supply of podiatrists by about 4000 within that time.

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I think they mean that over the period of time from 2012 to 2025 about 4000 more podiatrists will enter the workforce.

 

[de Ribas]

Read again I'm saying PAs due to the increases in NPs and also PAs. Especially in my area a huge local hospital just laid off 100 PA's and a few friends I know that graduated the past year are traveling quite bit to find a job (or taking slightly lower salaries out of desperation). Im not referring to NP's. Could just be a local thing but I looked at HRSA and there is also a oversupply of PA according to them in the coming years. Not RN/NP though.

I agree with the PA; they produce a lot of graduates. Interesting enough, most job openings take PA or NP for the same position anyways. So, how will that work out in the future if both are competing for the same job spots. For Example,

 

[Weirdy]

I agree with the PA; they produce a lot of graduates. Interesting enough, most job openings take PA or NP for the same position anyways. So, how will that work out in the future if both are competing for the same job spots. For Example,
View attachment 226275

Nursing home jobs least desirable.

Not much competition there.

 

[de Ribas]

Nursing home jobs least desirable.

Not much competition there.

this is not really from a nursing home, this is from Mayo Clinic website. This particular position is at the nursing home, but I have seen all of their jobs say NP/PA at any department.

I see this at other large hospital and healthcare networks where position says NP/PA.

 

[AttackNME]

Think about the reason why podiatrists are in a position to perform surgery in the first place. It’s because there is not enough orthopedic foot and ankle to meet the demands of America. Now think why are NP/PAs starting to get certification in DM nail care? Because there isn’t enough podiatrists to cover the demands of America. As podiatrists start evolving and doing more complicated things, the more routine things naturally get neglected, and so another profession will naturally pick it up.

I will be applying for pod school next year. As I was looking at the job outlook I came across this projection. Can someone smarter than me explain how there possibly can be an oversupply of podiatrists by 2025?

https://bhw.hrsa.gov/sites/default/...ctions/chiropractorspodiatristsapril2015_.pdf

I assumed having a residency protects against saturation? Is this something future pods should worry about?

No one can predict the future, but foot pain will never go away, there will always be need for podiatrists. People might worry about finding a job if they have strict geographic constraints. If you decide that you will only practice in Utopia where there are also a dozen other podiatry practices, you will struggle, but if you practice in Suburbia Utopia where it is right next to Utopia but has fewer podiatrists, then you’ll find yourself a lot busier 😉

 

[Dochopeful13]

I think they mean that over the period of time from 2012 to 2025 about 4000 more podiatrists will enter the workforce.[/Q

Do you think this would be something to be concerned with?

 

[Dochopeful13]

I think they mean that over the period of time from 2012 to 2025 about 4000 more podiatrists will enter the workforce.

Do you think this is something to be concerned with?

 

[GypsyHummus]

Never, I must live in SoCal or New York City. Those are the only two places on earth apparently on SDN.

I’m sure small city Tennessee would be a great place to set up shop but no, SoCal/New York City or bust.

Think about the reason why podiatrists are in a position to perform surgery in the first place. It’s because there is not enough orthopedic foot and ankle to meet the demands of America. Now think why are NP/PAs starting to get certification in DM nail care? Because there isn’t enough podiatrists to cover the demands of America. As podiatrists start evolving and doing more complicated things, the more routine things naturally get neglected, and so another profession will naturally pick it up.



No one can predict the future, but foot pain will never go away, there will always be need for podiatrists. People might worry about finding a job if they have strict geographic constraints. If you decide that you will only practice in Utopia where there are also a dozen other podiatry practices, you will struggle, but if you practice in Suburbia Utopia where it is right next to Utopia but has fewer podiatrists, then you’ll find yourself a lot busier 😉

 

[de Ribas]

Do you think this is something to be concerned with?

I don't. This is normal.

 

[AttackNME]

Do you think this is something to be concerned with?

If humans suddenly could extend their lifespan and work for another 20 years then yes. otherwise, no, people eventually die or retire.

 

[bunNfxr]

Look at 10 cities you may want to practice in. See how many pods are in practice their now and look up ages and board certification status. make sure you consider the surrounding areas especially in metro areas. For example, Last I checked there were only like 4 board certified DPMs in Coral Springs, but there are hundereds of DPM thoughout Broward, Dade and Palm Beach and some of them have satellite clinics in other cities then they are listed in. Decades ago the area had so many DPMs, that grads were taking jobs, billing illegally under someone else's NPI. This makes it hard to track ones production and risking the license of both providers. Every major metro is saturated. If there is growth you can still do well. Being the 2000th podiatrist in Chicago with a declining population is probably a bad idea.

 

[Windom Earle]

The moratorium lasted from 2005 until pretty much now, which means there was no growth in podiatry over that time period, including the classes that won't graduate until 2021 and be out of residency until 2024.

They increased class sizes and people still didn't apply? One man's trash is another man's treasure I suppose.

 

[AudiLova619]

Look at 10 cities you may want to practice in. See how many pods are in practice their now and look up ages and board certification status. make sure you consider the surrounding areas especially in metro areas. For example, Last I checked there were only like 4 board certified DPMs in Coral Springs, but there are hundereds of DPM thoughout Broward, Dade and Palm Beach and some of them have satellite clinics in other cities then they are listed in. Decades ago the area had so many DPMs, that grads were taking jobs, billing illegally under someone else's NPI. This makes it hard to track ones production and risking the license of both providers. Every major metro is saturated. If there is growth you can still do well. Being the 2000th podiatrist in Chicago with a declining population is probably a bad idea.

isn't this in dentistry too? I think everything outside MD/DO is saturated and competitive. Pharmacy, dental, optometry.

 

[de Ribas]

isn't this in dentistry too? I think everything outside MD/DO is saturated and competitive. Pharmacy, dental, optometry.

I don't know why they say dentistry is too saturated, but I have been calling for half a year now to make a dentists appointment now in 70 miles radius and everyone is crazy busy and are not taking anymore patients. And it is not just me.

 

[med2345]

I don't know why they say dentistry is too saturated, but I have been calling for half a year now to make a dentists appointment now in 70 miles radius and everyone is crazy busy and are not taking anymore patients. And it is not just me.

Thats so odd to me.. Where I live there is a dentist office in every plaza around here lol (northeast)

 

[GypsyHummus]

You are both right at the same time. There are some places that are super saturated and others that are not.

I don't know why they say dentistry is too saturated, but I have been calling for half a year now to make a dentists appointment now in 70 miles radius and everyone is crazy busy and are not taking anymore patients. And it is not just me.

Thats so odd to me.. Where I live there is a dentist office in every plaza around here lol (northeast)

 

[GypsyHummus]

Sounds like the places where there are pod schools are the places with the most saturation.

Look at 10 cities you may want to practice in. See how many pods are in practice their now and look up ages and board certification status. make sure you consider the surrounding areas especially in metro areas. For example, Last I checked there were only like 4 board certified DPMs in Coral Springs, but there are hundereds of DPM thoughout Broward, Dade and Palm Beach and some of them have satellite clinics in other cities then they are listed in. Decades ago the area had so many DPMs, that grads were taking jobs, billing illegally under someone else's NPI. This makes it hard to track ones production and risking the license of both providers. Every major metro is saturated. If there is growth you can still do well. Being the 2000th podiatrist in Chicago with a declining population is probably a bad idea.

 

[AudiLova619]

You are both right at the same time. There are some places that are super saturated and others that are not.

I agree, major cities are really saturated for dentistry. But I live in the east coast and I don't see that many podiatry offices.

 

[de Ribas]

Thats so odd to me.. Where I live there is a dentist office in every plaza around here lol (northeast)

We have enough dentistry offices too, but they are all busy and don't take me patients for like half a year now; I called many times to get an appointment and even walked in. They said that they're too busy.