Podiatry?

[Yadster101]

So what are your guys thoughts on pods? I know at many pod schools the students take the same curriculum as the Md/dos. It also seems like the average pod makes a salary that is comparable/higher than fm/Im docs.

So then why is it that pod school is way easier to get into than med school? I've personally met multiple people that went to pod school because their low mcat (~23) barred them from med school. Many health professions like md, do, dmd, pa seem to be becoming super competitive in admissions. Why is it that a profession that shares so much in common with these fields, and offers great compensation, is not nearly as hard to get into?

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[NWwildcat2013]

Because feet are gross although @Foot Fetish may disagree. There is a reason we gave feet and teeth to other medical professions.

 

[Poit]

On average, pods don't make more than primary docs. Especially newly minted pods.

 

[Poit]

As a pod fresh out of residency, you're lucky to snag a 120-130 k gig. As an internal doc out of residency, I wouldn't take a job for less than 160 k (assuming it's not a super nice area).

 

[Yadster101]

Because feet are gross although @Foot Fetish may disagree. There is a reason we gave feet and teeth to other medical professions.

But that's the thing. It can't just be that feet and teeth are gross. Most dental schools have gpas that are within range of med schools. The kids I know that ended up in dental school could almost certainly have ended up in med school.

Also I'm not trying to say pod students are dumb. I'm sure many of them are smarter than med students. Its just that on average their stats are much lower than med/dent/pa school

 

[Cskidd359]

Misperceptions about scope of practice, having to do residency, residency spot shortages, being treated like a second class citizen at some hospitals, etc., etc.

 

[Crayola227]

the jobs are very different re: medicine, teeth, feet

 

[Psai]

You don't get paid based on how hard your school is or how much it took to get there.

 

[JCJS]

I'm a 3rd year pod student. I post here because our forum is mostly dead and I can relate to much of what is discussed here.

The answer to why it's easier to get into is simple: the applicant pool is far smaller. The answer to why more people don't apply is also simple, "Ewwww feet are gross!!!". Heh. I think that's a silly reason considering most of medicine is pretty nasty, but there is definitely a lack of awareness regarding what the scope of practice is (most people don't realize the residency is 3 years and is surgical based). I've talked to people who thought it was just a 2 year program or something and that you basically just push orthotics all day. I've also talked to people who went to the caribbean for MD school when they couldn't get into a US school even after I told them this was a horrible decision and that they would be better off as a DPM. So people for sure don't have the same respect for this profession and I think that's why more people don't apply. Dentistry used to be the same way, but as the mentality changes so does competition.

As for the students in our classes I definitely worry about the fate of some of them, but for the most part I feel like we have a smart bunch. A few people fail out in 1st year because they underestimate the difficulty of the program.

 

[mcloaf]

I know at many pod schools the students take the same curriculum as the Md/dos

Is this actually true? Not sure I see the value in podiatry students memorizing the late complications of an MI or how to localize brainstem lesions.

 

[JCJS]

Is this actually true? Not sure I see the value in podiatry students memorizing the late complications of an MI or how to localize brainstem lesions.

The basic science years are generally the same, however we place a lot more emphasis on anatomy than you guys do (our Part 1 is like 40% anatomy). So naturally there are going to be some aspects that we're weaker in (General Path for sure, at least at my school)

 

[Psai]

Is this actually true? Not sure I see the value in podiatry students memorizing the late complications of an MI or how to localize brainstem lesions.

Breadth and depth are significantly less but the general topics covered are similar in my understanding.

 

[Yadster101]

Breadth and depth are significantly less but the general topics covered are similar in my understanding.

At dmu they are 99% the same.

 

[JCJS]

I feel like they teach us everything to the same degree, but the difference lies in the students. It's harder to put more effort into something when you know it matters less. Histology and neuroanatomy make up like 5 questions on our boards, Path is like 13%. Anatomy, Pharm, and Micro make up around 70% so that's the stuff people pay more attention to.

 

[Yadster101]

I'm a 3rd year pod student. I post here because our forum is mostly dead and I can relate to much of what is discussed here.

The answer to why it's easier to get into is simple: the applicant pool is far smaller. The answer to why more people don't apply is also simple, "Ewwww feet are gross!!!". Heh. I think that's a silly reason considering most of medicine is pretty nasty, but there is definitely a lack of awareness regarding what the scope of practice is (most people don't realize the residency is 3 years and is surgical based). I've talked to people who thought it was just a 2 year program or something and that you basically just push orthotics all day. I've also talked to people who went to the caribbean for MD school when they couldn't get into a US school even after I told them this was a horrible decision and that they would be better off as a DPM. So people for sure don't have the same respect for this profession and I think that's why more people don't apply. Dentistry used to be the same way, but as the mentality changes so does competition.

As for the students in our classes I definitely worry about the fate of some of them, but for the most part I feel like we have a smart bunch. A few people fail out in 1st year because they underestimate the difficulty of the program.

It can't just be that feet are gross. Gastroenterologists, urologists, ortho, etc all deal with "gross" things but these fields are all highly competitive.

Also I don't think it's just lack of respect. I doubt pas are more respected than pods but the pa schools in my area are all much more competitive than the 1 pod school here.

 

[JCJS]

It can't just be that feet are gross. Gastroenterologists, urologists, ortho, etc all deal with "gross" things but these fields are all highly competitive.

Also I don't think it's just lack of respect. I doubt pas are more respected than pods but the pa schools in my area are all much more competitive than the 1 pod school here.

Well the path to becoming a PA is much quicker and more people know about it. Lack of awareness of the profession is a big reason why more people don't apply. It's easier to get into when there are fewer people applying and there isn't exactly a shortage of spots available either. The residency shortage also might have scared people off, but it's becoming less of an issue every year.

 

[FootAndAnkle]

It can't just be that feet are gross. Gastroenterologists, urologists, ortho, etc all deal with "gross" things but these fields are all highly competitive.

Also I don't think it's just lack of respect. I doubt pas are more respected than pods but the pa schools in my area are all much more competitive than the 1 pod school here.

I think it's primarily the small size of the profession paired with the fact that you're committing to a very similar education to MDs/DOs (we took all the same basic sciences with DOs where I went) without keeping the option to pursue other potentially fulfilling career choices.

 

[Screwtape]

I think it's primarily the small size of the profession paired with the fact that you're committing to a very similar education to MDs/DOs (we took all the same basic sciences with DOs where I went) without keeping the option to pursue other potentially fulfilling career choices.

I think that this is the key. Podiatry is the only health profession that still has a lengthy residency AFTER 4 years of school but piegeonholes (for lack of a better word) you from day one. No other health professions have this set up. Want to do 2 years after college and have provider status and make good money ? Go PA. Want to do four more years of school and then make good money ? Go pharm, opto, dent. Want to do an additional 4 years and then 3+ years of residency ? Go MD/DO or pod.

 

[raiderette]

I thought the biggest problem was the lack of residency spots. Tough to come out if school and have residency rates similar to a Caribbean grad.

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[bobtheweazel]

I thought the biggest problem was the lack of residency spots. Tough to come out if school and have residency rates similar to a Caribbean grad.

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In the last match, 97.8% of new grads got residencies. Most of the graduates from previous classes that didn't have residencies also matched this year, taking the number of prior graduates without residencies from 62 down to 24, plus 12 new grads that didn't match this year leaves us with 36 grads that still need to be placed. At this point there are more residency spots available every year than there are current graduates, it's just that the system is still working through the graduates that got screwed previously. Within a few years, the rest of them should be worked through as well though.

So if you're saying Caribbean grads have at least a 97.8% chance of matching, with that number likely to rise as more and more previous graduates get worked through the system leaving an actual surplus of spots for new graduates, then I'm impressed. I do think though that's not what you meant, and that like many people, you were just uninformed about the actual state of the situation.

In comparison, the residency match rate for MDs is historically 92-95%, and this year it was 93.8% for new MD grads (96.2% after scramble) and 80.3% for DOs, so...really if you're worried about snagging a residency as a new grad, that's actually an argument for choosing DPM over MD/DO.

http://www.casprcrip.org/html/casprcrip/pdf/PlacementUpdate.pdf

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2016.pdf

 

[bobtheweazel]

On average, pods don't make more than primary docs. Especially newly minted pods.

Well, there's at least this survey that says family medicine docs average $195,000 and internal medicine docs average $196,000 for patient care and another $10,000-$11,000 for non-patient care activities. There's also this ACFAS survey that says pods average $211,723, not counting bonuses. Not sure if the Medscape survey is counting bonuses. On the MGMA 2010 report, average general podiatrist salary was $216,611 while average surgical podiatrist salary was $287,449. On the same report internal medicine: general was at $214, 906.

http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2015/public/overview#page=3
http://www.acfas.org/compensation/

As a pod fresh out of residency, you're lucky to snag a 120-130 k gig. As an internal doc out of residency, I wouldn't take a job for less than 160 k (assuming it's not a super nice area).

In the APMA 2015 young physician's survey, table 83, which I won't share because it's behind a paywall but which another APMA member could verify, the average salary for podiatrists with 1-5 years of experience was $172,577 including bonuses. It's certainly not an accurate statement to say new pods would be "lucky to snag a 120-130 k gig", as if only the upper echelon could achieve that salary fresh out of residency. "Lucky" were the 8.2% making $325,000 or more with only 1-5 years experience.

 

[Yadster101]

Well, there's at least this survey that says family medicine docs average $195,000 and internal medicine docs average $196,000 for patient care and another $10,000-$11,000 for non-patient care activities. There's also this ACFAS survey that says pods average $211,723, not counting bonuses. Not sure if the Medscape survey is counting bonuses. On the MGMA 2010 report, average general podiatrist salary was $216,611 while average surgical podiatrist salary was $287,449. On the same report internal medicine: general was at $214, 906.

http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2015/public/overview#page=3
http://www.acfas.org/compensation/


In the APMA 2015 young physician's survey, table 83, which I won't share because it's behind a paywall but which another APMA member could verify, the average salary for podiatrists with 1-5 years of experience was $172,577 including bonuses. It's certainly not an accurate statement to say new pods would be "lucky to snag a 120-130 k gig", as if only the upper echelon could achieve that salary fresh out of residency. "Lucky" were the 8.2% making $325,000 or more with only 1-5 years experience.

Wow I didn't realize pods made that much. It seems like a great gig, similar to ortho, with a really nice average salary. Almost seems too good to be true when you look at entering stats for pod students.

 

[DrMidlife]

If I'd been smarter, podiatry & physical therapy would have displaced ego factors on my career differential. Didn't really get exposed to either until after residency started.

 

[Stagg737]

Is this actually true? Not sure I see the value in podiatry students memorizing the late complications of an MI or how to localize brainstem lesions.

Depends on the school. One of my exes went to pod at Ros. Franklin and she said all of her first year classes were with the med students other than lab. Keep in mind a good number of the pod schools aren't associated with MD or DO schools, so they will have their own curriculum. From what I understand, DMU and RF are also the top 2 pod schools in the country, but idk how true that actually is.

It can't just be that feet are gross. Gastroenterologists, urologists, ortho, etc all deal with "gross" things but these fields are all highly competitive.

As someone else said, you're committing to a pretty limited path from the get go with pod school, feet. MD/DO school has a far greater plethora of career options, even if you're not a very competitive applicant (FM, psych, IM --> whatever, etc). In med school if you don't like one field, there's 20 others to look at. In pods if you end up not like feet, well, you're screwed.

Wow I didn't realize pods made that much. It seems like a great gig, similar to ortho, with a really nice average salary. Almost seems too good to be true when you look at entering stats for pod students.

Those numbers are high. I have friends from college that are pods now and none of them are clearing 150k, even with bonuses (they've been practicing 1-3 years). That being said, I don't know any full-time pods that aren't making 6 figures, and after 10-15 years in practice I don't think it's uncommon at all to be making more than $200k (which the previous posted survey reflects).

 

[bobtheweazel]

Depends on the school. One of my exes went to pod at Ros. Franklin and she said all of her first year classes were with the med students other than lab. Keep in mind a good number of the pod schools aren't associated with MD or DO schools, so they will have their own curriculum. From what I understand, DMU and RF are also the top 2 pod schools in the country, but idk how true that actually is.

Actually, most of the schools are associated with MD/DO programs, 7/9 are at least associated with med schools, 1 of the others is at least associated with other health science schools. We are either integrated directly into the classes or if we're not integrated we at least have the same PhDs and MDs teaching us except for some of the more clinical and pod specific classes that might be taught by pods.

The top 2 schools, if you look at board pass rates, residency rates, graduation rates, etc. would be Midwestern and DMU.

As someone else said, you're committing to a pretty limited path from the get go with pod school, feet. MD/DO school has a far greater plethora of career options, even if you're not a very competitive applicant (FM, psych, IM --> whatever, etc). In med school if you don't like one field, there's 20 others to look at. In pods if you end up not like feet, well, you're screwed.

It's a different kind of limited. It's limited by body region rather than a specific specialty. There's ortho, vascular, derm, infectious disease, sports medicine, radiology, surgery, etc. all in the lower extremity. Whereas a dermatologist, for instance, might be able to practice the whole body, but only the skin. Is that not limited as well?

Also, what if you don't match into a specialty you like? In pod, you know that you're definitely going to match into a surgical residency.

Those numbers are high. I have friends from college that are pods now and none of them are clearing 150k, even with bonuses (they've been practicing 1-3 years). That being said, I don't know any full-time pods that aren't making 6 figures, and after 10-15 years in practice I don't think it's uncommon at all to be making more than $200k (which the previous posted survey reflects).

It doesn't invalidate the surveys because you have friends that don't make that much. There are certainly people on the surveys making less than $100,000 and some making more than $400,000. A survey of a few people you know compared to a survey of hundreds of physician's salaries...well, there really is no comparison.

 

[Stagg737]

Actually, most of the schools are associated with MD/DO programs, 7/9 are at least associated with med schools, 1 of the others is at least associated with other health science schools. We are either integrated directly into the classes or if we're not integrated we at least have the same PhDs and MDs teaching us except for some of the more clinical and pod specific classes that might be taught by pods.

The top 2 schools, if you look at board pass rates, residency rates, graduation rates, etc. would be Midwestern and DMU.

Didn't realize there were only 9 schools, I thought there were 12-13. Pretty sure it's 6/9 are affiliated looking at the list, but that's just semantics. Also, just going off of what I heard from pods/students I know.

It's a different kind of limited. It's limited by body region rather than a specific specialty. There's ortho, vascular, derm, infectious disease, sports medicine, radiology, surgery, etc. all in the lower extremity. Whereas a dermatologist, for instance, might be able to practice the whole body, but only the skin. Is that not limited as well?

Also, what if you don't match into a specialty you like? In pod, you know that you're definitely going to match into a surgical residency.

You have ortho, vascular and general surgery? What's the difference or perks to them? Yes, you are eventually limited in medicine, but the difference is that when you enter medical school you get 2 years of pre-clinical, then 4 years of clinical, and if you do something broad like IM or family then another couple years to really know the system and figure out what you want to do. Sure you can do ortho, ID, derm, etc. in pods, but you're stuck working on the foot and ankle no matter what. You're boxing yourself in before you even set foot in your first pod class, which isn't the case in med school. If you don't match your #1 field, then there's always back-ups, which isn't ideal but it works. If you end up not liking working on feet as a pod, you're kind of screwed.

It doesn't invalidate the surveys because you have friends that don't make that much. There are certainly people on the surveys making less than $100,000 and some making more than $400,000. A survey of a few people you know compared to a survey of hundreds of physician's salaries...well, there really is no comparison.

How about the U.S. Bureau of labor statistics then? http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291081.htm

I'm not trying to get into a d*** measuring contest or anything, but from everything I've seen and heard pods make less than physicians in general. I'm sure there are plenty of Pods that make more than plenty of physicians, but your sources are the first time I've ever seen that. I also have never met any pods that work in a hospital nor have I worked or volunteered at a hospital that employed pods (I've been at several). Every pod I've talked to though also works significantly less hours than most docs do and had what seemed like a standard 40-45 hour work week. So maybe that's where the difference most people see, myself included, comes from. Also, the medscape reports for physician salary doesn't usually include benefits. From past reports I've looked at I believe there were separate slides or entire reports for that.

 

[bobtheweazel]

Didn't realize there were only 9 schools, I thought there were 12-13. Pretty sure it's 6/9 are affiliated looking at the list, but that's just semantics. Also, just going off of what I heard from pods/students I know.



You have ortho, vascular and general surgery? What's the difference or perks to them? Yes, you are eventually limited in medicine, but the difference is that when you enter medical school you get 2 years of pre-clinical, then 4 years of clinical, and if you do something broad like IM or family then another couple years to really know the system and figure out what you want to do. Sure you can do ortho, ID, derm, etc. in pods, but you're stuck working on the foot and ankle no matter what. You're boxing yourself in before you even set foot in your first pod class, which isn't the case in med school. If you don't match your #1 field, then there's always back-ups, which isn't ideal but it works. If you end up not liking working on feet as a pod, you're kind of screwed.



How about the U.S. Bureau of labor statistics then? http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291081.htm

I'm not trying to get into a d*** measuring contest or anything, but from everything I've seen and heard pods make less than physicians in general. I'm sure there are plenty of Pods that make more than plenty of physicians, but your sources are the first time I've ever seen that. I also have never met any pods that work in a hospital nor have I worked or volunteered at a hospital that employed pods (I've been at several). Every pod I've talked to though also works significantly less hours than most docs do and had what seemed like a standard 40-45 hour work week. So maybe that's where the difference most people see, myself included, comes from. Also, the medscape reports for physician salary doesn't usually include benefits. From past reports I've looked at I believe there were separate slides or entire reports for that.

I think you're right about the affiliations, I forgot Barry doesn't have a med program, just a PA program.

As far as the limitations, I'm just trying to point out that there are also limitations for MD and especially DO as far as match rates into the residency of your choice and as far as actual scope of practice in the end. It's not 200 years ago where you can do whatever you want, you can really only do what hospitals will give you priviledges for and what your malpractice insurance will cover. Also, aside from potentially not matching into the residency you want, a lot of people say that you can go always go back and redo residency as an MD/DO. Yes, technically, but not practically. Not once you factor in time, debt, etc. That being said, there are cons to pod school as well. I just wanted to point out that it's not fair to list the cons of pod school and only the pros of MD/DO school. They both have pros and they both have cons worth considering before delving into either.

There are pods that work in hospitals, to my knowledge there have even been pods as chief of medicine or chief of surgery in a few hospitals. But I think most probably still don't work in hospitals, working in private practice, pod groups, or multispecialty groups.

As far as the BLS statistics, I would shy away from them simply because I believe they included resident salaries ($50,000) in their calculations. That skews the average down quite a bit. Also, like you said, the surveys show that pods average 40-41 hours per week. So the pod salary is based on those hours. So if we're looking at other specialties that make more per year but are also working 50 or 60 hours per week and taking call, the apparent gap in salary isn't actually as large.

MGMA is supposed to be pretty high quality and is probably the best to look at anyway simply because they include podiatrists and pretty much every other specialist in one survey. So the same data gathering and data crunching methods are applied to everyone. Either way, the ACFAS and MGMA surveys for sure only included physician salaries, not residents.

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[JamaicanHerb]

Its easy for podiatry students to say that their education and classes are similar to medical students because they take their first 1-2 years with them, but then they forget the rest of clinicals/steps/boards/expectations on rounds. They assume it can't get any harder than basic sciences, but you'd never know until you went to medical school.

 

[bobtheweazel]

Its easy for podiatry students to say that their education and classes are similar to medical students because they take their first 1-2 years with them, but then they forget the rest of clinicals/steps/boards/expectations on rounds. They assume it can't get any harder than basic sciences, but you'd never know until you went to medical school.

Boards are obviously different.

As far as rotations, other than pod specific rotations the pods rotate through family med, ortho surgery, general surgery, vascular surgery, physical medicine, infectious disease, etc. with MD and DO students and residents, side by side, with the same expectations. Of course there will be some ****tier residencies and ****tier rotations, but that's the same across medicine and isn't unique to podiatry.

Pods also participate in shelf exams, grand rounds, journal club, etc. That all varies by school and residency though.

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[Psai]

A podiatrist as chief of medicine hahaha

 

[bobtheweazel]

A podiatrist as chief of medicine hahaha

Gee, what a productive contribution to the conversation. I see professionalism wasn't in your school's curriculum.

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[Foot Fetish]

.

 

[Screwtape]

Mmmmmm. Nothing sexier than a pair of soft, stinky, well-pedicured female feet. I'd go into podiatry if all my patients were females with sexy feet. I guess they wouldn't need a podiatrist if their feet qualified as sexy though lol....

Man this place is getting weird.

 

[JCJS]

LMFAO

 

[zero0]

A podiatrist as chief of medicine hahaha

yeah it happens... idk if that says something about those hospitals or podiatry as a profession

 

[raiderette]

In the last match, 97.8% of new grads got residencies. Most of the graduates from previous classes that didn't have residencies also matched this year, taking the number of prior graduates without residencies from 62 down to 24, plus 12 new grads that didn't match this year leaves us with 36 grads that still need to be placed. At this point there are more residency spots available every year than there are current graduates, it's just that the system is still working through the graduates that got screwed previously. Within a few years, the rest of them should be worked through as well though.

So if you're saying Caribbean grads have at least a 97.8% chance of matching, with that number likely to rise as more and more previous graduates get worked through the system leaving an actual surplus of spots for new graduates, then I'm impressed. I do think though that's not what you meant, and that like many people, you were just uninformed about the actual state of the situation.

In comparison, the residency match rate for MDs is historically 92-95%, and this year it was 93.8% for new MD grads and 80.3% for DOs, so...really if you're worried about snagging a residency as a new grad, that's actually an argument for choosing DPM over MD/DO.

http://www.casprcrip.org/html/casprcrip/pdf/PlacementUpdate.pdf

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2016.pdf

I was talking about podiatry having fewer residency spots than graduates. If it changed in the last year, great, but it was a real concern a couple of years ago.

 

[bobtheweazel]

I was talking about podiatry having fewer residency spots than graduates. If it changed in the last year, great, but it was a real concern a couple of years ago.

It was a major concern maybe 10 years ago, I agree. But the profession has capped admissions and put a moratorium on the opening of new schools. There is also a massive residency genesis project still under way with the goal of having 110%, or a 10% surplus, of residency spots. I assume once We're at that point they will consider allowing increased admissions or new schools, but at a pace that the profession can keep up with so that a residency shortage never occurs again. We're right around the 110% already if you count total residency positions, but if you only count the active spots for residencies that participated in the match this last cycle it was at a 4% surplus for new grads. The "residency shortage" is a nonissue at this point thanks to the pod leadership seeing a problem and taking the necessary steps to resolve it. For premeds looking to choose a profession today and in the future (not 10 years ago), there's much more of a residency shortage taking the MD/DO path than the DPM path.

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[Psai]

Gee, what a productive contribution to the conversation. I see professionalism wasn't in your school's curriculum.

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You would know more about medical school curriculums if you attended one.

 

[kmp0410]

I really think it has alot to do with lack of awareness. And a general lack of sexiness when students are young and making grown up decisions for stupid reasons. That low of MCAT scores has always baffled me though.

I'm not an expert on the field but I would think it has its pros and cons like anything. I know a (very experienced) podiatrist who does very very well. Does pretty quick surgeries everyday and sees patients in clinic. Seems like the ideal mix for alot of people. I'm sure he put in his time working longer hours but is off by 5 regularly now. Has so many patients that taking days off is tough. I remember that from when I was young, having to wait 6+ months to get in to see a podiatrist...so its not like there is a lack of demand. Seems like there is alot more opportunity (like Dentists) to be your own boss.

 

[Setto]

I think there's also something to be said about the lack of options after school. It can really reduce the applicant pool. Literally everybody that goes into Podiatry is going to be working with feet. But people who go into medicine have a whole slew of options available to them (in terms of systems and surgical vs non) when they start out.

 

[W19]

I think there's also something to be said about the lack of options after school. It can really reduce the applicant pool. Literally everybody that goes into Podiatry is going to be working with feet. But people who go into medicine have a whole slew of options available to them (in terms of systems and surgical vs non) when they start out.

These options are limited after step 1

 

[Poit]

Well, there's at least this survey that says family medicine docs average $195,000 and internal medicine docs average $196,000 for patient care and another $10,000-$11,000 for non-patient care activities. There's also this ACFAS survey that says pods average $211,723, not counting bonuses. Not sure if the Medscape survey is counting bonuses. On the MGMA 2010 report, average general podiatrist salary was $216,611 while average surgical podiatrist salary was $287,449. On the same report internal medicine: general was at $214, 906.

http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2015/public/overview#page=3
http://www.acfas.org/compensation/


In the APMA 2015 young physician's survey, table 83, which I won't share because it's behind a paywall but which another APMA member could verify, the average salary for podiatrists with 1-5 years of experience was $172,577 including bonuses. It's certainly not an accurate statement to say new pods would be "lucky to snag a 120-130 k gig", as if only the upper echelon could achieve that salary fresh out of residency. "Lucky" were the 8.2% making $325,000 or more with only 1-5 years experience.

These are numbers that I gleaned from talking to pods on the podiatry forum back in the day. Might have changed since then. Pods can do very well for themselves, no doubt.

 

[nonociceptors]

Because feet are gross although @Foot Fetish may disagree. There is a reason we gave feet and teeth to other medical professions.

i'd gladly take feet or teeth (hell give me both at once) over proctology and urology. every day and twice on sundays.

 

[TedStark]

Non trad fourth year medical student here. Considering the time I spent getting into medical school... If I could do it again I'd go podiatry. The lack of prestige turned me off as an immature young idiot, but as you get older everything is just a job. When will I get home? What does it pay? I no longer care about what other people think. This isn't to say I don't care about my work. It just means my priorities have changed as I've gotten older. Podiatry is a great field that does a lot of good for a lot of people. MD's refer patients to them all of the time. They truly are experts of their field and are treated as such in the real world.

 

[nonociceptors]

Non trad fourth year medical student here. Considering the time I spent getting into medical school... If I could do it again I'd go podiatry. The lack of prestige turned me off as an immature young idiot, but as you get older everything is just a job. When will I get home? What does it pay? I no longer care about what other people think. This isn't to say I don't care about my work. It just means my priorities have changed as I've gotten older. Podiatry is a great field that does a lot of good for a lot of people. MD's refer patients to them all of the time. They truly are experts of their field and are treated as such in the real world.

Yeah you'll only really see that type of arrogance and delusion on a forum dedicated to prehealth students, specifically allo/preallo. Not to say the attitude doesn't exist among pharmacy, dental, etc students but we all know where it's most prevalent. Not a knock on those individuals because, in the end, if they hate what they do the jokes on them. And it's hard to blame them when they're so young, like you said. What's saddest to me is the kids getting pushed into it be their ****ing parents. Nothing but sympathy.

 

[jeffk805dent]

Non trad fourth year medical student here. Considering the time I spent getting into medical school... If I could do it again I'd go podiatry. The lack of prestige turned me off as an immature young idiot, but as you get older everything is just a job. When will I get home? What does it pay? I no longer care about what other people think. This isn't to say I don't care about my work. It just means my priorities have changed as I've gotten older. Podiatry is a great field that does a lot of good for a lot of people. MD's refer patients to them all of the time. They truly are experts of their field and are treated as such in the real world.

look on the bright side at least you are on the verge of getting your MD/DO, something a lot of folks wanted. Early congrats (knock on wood)

 

[prentice25]

4th year pod student here- I believe the low statistics of those applying to pod school has less to do with the "grossness" of dealing with feet and more to do with the lack of awareness of the potential the profession offers. I think pod will always take a backseat to md/do admissions, but that being said, there should still be an overwhelming amount of interested and qualified (MCAT 27+) students to fill the limited number of pod seats. Podiatry is considered "medicines hidden gem" by those in the field, and there is no doubt that more students would apply if they only knew about the field. The reality, however, is that its such a small field its hard to promote itself. How many pre-med/pre-health programs at major universities are even aware that podiatry school is an option? Surprisingly few. And as far as salary goes, podiatrists' salaries are exploding now that hospitals realize how valuable a pod service can be and how many surgical cases that we can bring in for a hospital. The numbers bobtheweazel threw out there are not exaggerated at all. At a university hospital I was recently at where salaries are made public online, the general surgeon attendings were making around 260k and still had terrible hours as an attending. The pod I was with was working 4 days a week and making 340K. That being said, the ortho foot/ankle doc that does the exact same cases we do was making 650K.

 

[podiatrist12]

ONCE SOMEONE IS BOARD CERTIFIED IN ANY HEALTH CARE FIELD, THEY CAN GET LICENSED TO PRACTICE IN ANY STATE.
WHY IS PODIATRY DIFFERENT?

Podiatry is the only field I know of where someone can be board certified in podiatric medicine with more than 30 years practice and still not be granted a license in many states solely
because a lack of residency training of either one or two years. I believe many states passed restrictive licensing laws that discriminated against older board certified podiatrists preventing them from becoming licensed in certain states.
In states like NYS I can perform a joint implant procedure with grommets in the OR yet cannot take a punch biopsy of a skin lesion on the ankle and can't get licensed in many other states that require one or 2 year residency training. In every other profession I know of Board Certification is supposed to be the highest level of achievement. Fortunately I am licensed in NYS and have enjoyed the opportunity to help thousands of patients. If I had to do it all over again I would. I love being a podiatrist. Podiatry in many ways is a wonderful profession. It would be wonderful to net $30,000 or maybe even $40,000 for the year. I can just keep trying to reach this goal. Just frustrating I cannot move to another state of my choice, treat the ankle in NYS, etc... A PA or nurse practitioner can treat the ankle in NYS.

No matter how hard someone works or accomplishes goals it is always possible not to be granted residency training and be faced with the problem of not being able to get a license in the state of their choice.
In podiatry it is unfair for a residency director that lacks board certification in podiatric medicine to deny a residency position to an applicant that has already achieved this high level of achievement. What is even more unfair is that in podiatry someone who has already been granted board certification in podiatric medicine should not feel any need to go back and be forced to have residency training solely to qualify for a podiatry license in another state. Why should a podiatrist that is already board certified in podiatric medicine feel forced to go back to residency, give up their practice solely to be enabled to get licensed in other states and to become licensed to treat the ankle in any state? The lesson I learned is not to feel confident that anyone no matter how hard they work, or how much they achieve will actually get accepted to a residency program in podiatry. I believe it has a lot to do with being lucky.

 

[jango1222]

doesn't get more pretentious than this but i guess that comes with going to med school.

people in here trying to disgrace another profession in order to raise his or her own ego. strong insecurities/10 brahs

 

[Hchum07]

Breadth and depth are significantly less but the general topics covered are similar in my understanding.

Actually, as a first year Pod student at WesternU, our curriculum is intimately integrated with the WesternU DO program. We take all of the same core classes including Gross Anatomy, Neuro, Renal, Derm, Cardio, etc. We attend the same lectures in the same room and sit next to our DO counterparts to take the exact same exams. Most of our classes include multiple clinical cases pertaining to the class we are in that we complete with integrated small groups. These small groups consist of 2 or 3 podiatry students grouped with 5 to 7 DO students. We work together to complete assignments and quizzes, basically to test our knowledge of the subject matter. We do also have our own podiatry core classes additional to the DO core classes. The DO students take OMM and ISSM (essentially an ongoing general health and intro to medicine class) that the pod students do not take. It seems to be partially true that the programs with a 'podiatry only' curriculum may have less of an emphasis on subjects not pertaining specifically to podiatry, but this is not the case at the podiatry program here at WesternU.

I believe it's important as a medical professional and as a surgeon (all podiatrists are surgically trained in the foot and ankle) to have as complete of a medical education as possible to ensure the best patient care. Podiatrists will perform surgeries similar to orthopedic surgeons who specialize in the foot and ankle, so it makes sense that we would need an excess of training to ensure the best outcomes. Also, just as an example, many podiatrists are specialists in diabetes due to the effects of diabetic retinopathy, ulcers, limited healing, and amputations on the foot. Diabetes, as most people know, is a systemic disease with many symptoms that are not limited to the foot. Having the education and training associated with the entire body will likely lead to a better understanding of all the potential effects diabetes can have on a patient. At the very least, this additional knowledge will allow a podiatrist to recognize early signs of other potential conditions and refer patients to the proper specialist, therefore reducing overall health care costs and better yet, yield a healthier outcome in the long run for patients.

These are my personal opinions mixed with facts, so I'd welcome any further questions about podiatry or WesternU.