Poll: Hypothetical Scenario

[metalhead1023]

If they cut the pay it would also undoubtedly cut the competition also so I would say if they did indeed both go down I would still try to become a doctor.

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[Livingapparatus]

why dont we cap off everyones salary than? lets cap off lawyers, janitors, CEO's while were at it. Lets all make the same amount of money for different amounts of work, education and responsibilities

 

[foster033]

Maybe it's just me, but I think the people that work the hardest and contribute the most to society should be compensated proportionately. I think doctors fit in that category. If they weren't compensated proportionately, then I would find a profession that was. I liked the previous poster's idea of becoming a nurse...

RN's average salary is about 60K and the median is about 56K.

 

[Livingapparatus]

RN's average salary is about 60K and the median is about 56K.

They also have the ability to work OT, which then they can make 6 figures quite easily

 

[LikeClockWork]

RN's average salary is about 60K and the median is about 56K.

...which you make after 2 to 4 years of school instead of the 7 to 8 years a doc goes through. I'd rather have those 3 years or so of 60K income rather than spinning my wheels income wise and making only slightly more coming out.

 

[EpiPEN]

actually if you are a young nurse who is willing to re-locate based on need, you name a LOT more if you work for those companies that contracts nurses to hospitals that are in need.

 

[TehDoc]

So the 75k salary means 40 hours/week? Or are we still talking 24+ hour shifts on call blah blah blah?

 

[8744]

RN's average salary is about 60K and the median is about 56K.

Hey, if it wasn't for the money and the prestige I assure you this mother****er would be nothing but a horrific grind spent getting closer to smelly, disgusting people than any sane person would really want to. There is a certain amount of prestige to being a nurse because everybody likes nurses but I wouldn't do their job for triple the money it currently pays. Except for the occasional procedure, I mostly just ask a lot of questions and write a bunch of orders. Nurses actually work most of the time and, where I can enter a room wrinkle my nose, make a few decisions, and move on, it's the nurse who has to clean up the clostridium difficile diarrhea that explodes out of a demented patient's ass.

No, I could never be nurse. They make good money but not good enough. On the other hand I betcha' nurses don't troll their internet forums playing a game of hypothetical chicken, professing such a love for nursing that they'd do it for some arbitrarily low salary which is much less than they are really worth.

Roundabout point (Perhaps for the one-hundredth time)? You folks only think a low-end middle-class salary will be enough because you have no skills, no marketable talents, and have not yet sacrificed a huge portion of your youth, your treasure, and your sanity to this ridiculous mother****er we call residency training. As the years roll by and those strange interludes called "weekends" and "holidays" fade into the dim realm of your personal prehistory, you will at last understand that, while no one deserves any particular salary, you will certainly have earned yours if it happens to be a ridiculously high one.

Seventy-five thousand.

Please. I made that as an engineer with nothing but a bachelor's degree and a 2.9 GPA.

 

[coldweatherblue]

...which you make after 2 to 4 years of school instead of the 7 to 8 years a doc goes through. I'd rather have those 3 years or so of 60K income rather than spinning my wheels income wise and making only slightly more coming out.

A nurse who entered nursing school the same time that you entered undergrad is going to be a lot more than 3 years ahead of you.

My friend started nursing school when I started undergrad 4 years ago. He's got an A.S. now (working on B.S.) but has already been working for two years. Meanwhile I have EIGHT more years to go before I actually begin my career. So total it's more like TEN years different between becoming an A.S. degree RN and an attending MD.

 

[LikeClockWork]

A nurse who entered nursing school the same time that you entered undergrad is going to be a lot more than 3 years ahead of you.

My friend started nursing school when I started undergrad 4 years ago. He's got an A.S. now (working on B.S.) but has already been working for two years. Meanwhile I have EIGHT more years to go before I actually begin my career. So total it's more like TEN years different between becoming an A.S. degree RN and an attending MD.

I thought nurses had to get a B.S. before nursing school. Guess that further proves my point.

 

[TehDoc]

I believe its 5 years total for a nurse/bachelors program at a university near me.

 

[foster033]

...which you make after 2 to 4 years of school instead of the 7 to 8 years a doc goes through. I'd rather have those 3 years or so of 60K income rather than spinning my wheels income wise and making only slightly more coming out.

you'd still make more in the long run as a doctor...

Besides, being a doctor and being a nurse are entirely different things. You couldn't pay me enough to be a nurse.

 

[LikeClockWork]

you'd still make more in the long run as a doctor...

Besides, being a doctor and being a nurse are entirely different things. You couldn't pay me enough to be a nurse.

Yeah in the long run, but if we're saying it takes 5 years out of high school to become a nurse, and 11 years out of high school to become a doctor, then that's an additional 6 years of income. If nurses make $60,000 and doctors make only $15,000 more than that, it would take ~24 years of practice to make up the difference. And that would be with any job that makes $60,000 a year.

With the doctor shortage as it is already, seems like it would only get worse if this were the case.

 

[katieo]

Would med school still put me 200k in debt? If yes, then probably not, it just wouldn't be worth 4+ years and the cost of med school.

Otherwise, sure. My parents make less than that-individually, not combined- and they do just fine, even putting 2 kids through school.

 

[student1799]

In a city like New York, you couldn't even rent a decent family apartment for $75K. And never mind private school for the kids--it costs about $30K per kid per year.

At that salary, there will be a TON of skilled blue-collar workers who make more than doctors. And they didn't work their butts off throughout college [in fact, they don't have to go to college at all], fight their way through the insane gauntlet known as "med school admissions," and work for nothing or pitiful wages for up to 10 years.

If this hypothetical situation went into effect, I guarantee you there would be a shortage of doctors in no time.

P.S. I worked on Wall Street for 20 years and left a job that pays WAY more than I will ever make as a doctor. I'm doing this for love, but I still understand the value of money.

 

[foster033]

Yeah in the long run, but if we're saying it takes 5 years out of high school to become a nurse, and 11 years out of high school to become a doctor, then that's an additional 6 years of income. If nurses make $60,000 and doctors make only $15,000 more than that, it would take ~24 years of practice to make up the difference. And that would be with any job that makes $60,000 a year.

With the doctor shortage as it is already, seems like it would only get worse if this were the case.

The doctor shortage has nothing to do with compensation. It's more about a lack of planning...there are a limited number of seats in medical school and the numbers weren't increased properly. If you capped salaries you might have less applicants, but you'd probably still have enough to fill the spots with qualified applicants.

 

[DEdm]

.

 

[DEdm]

P.S. - All doctors would be part-time GPs or Pediatricians if that were the case too. No one is going to go through to become a surgeon for that money and the call schedule. Also, what about malpractice insurance. OB-GYN's would make NEGATIVE $40,000 - 60,000 a year. I could write a book on this topic if you can't tell.

 

[TehDoc]

Excellent thread.

 

[Begaster]

No chance. I do not suffer from premedicitis. There is absolutely no way I would be willing to work as hard as doctors work if I was not being paid what I was worth for it. No way. That's not to say money is THE most important aspect of medicine to me, it's not. But if you expect me to spend my 20s first in the library, and then as an intern/resident being abused in the wards, pro-bono, forget it. That's bloody insulting.

Drop the salary down to $75k and you lose out on a ton of highly competitive, highly driven, highly ambitious people. At the end of the day, I'd much prefer the brilliant surgeon who went in it for the love of money to the mediocre one who does it because he loves to help. The latter might be a nicer, friendlier, better human being, but that doesn't mean he's better at cutting.

 

[Diksha]

So the 75k salary means 40 hours/week? Or are we still talking 24+ hour shifts on call blah blah blah?

Pretty good point. I might be willing to take the cut if it meant less paperwork, none of the litigation, and reasonable shifts. On the other hand, I know for a fact that general practitioners in the NHS in England make more than this, and they have all of these lifestyle perks. I think $75000 is pretty low.

 

[majahops]

I originally made this threat as a sort of a "let's see if most of the people on here want to be a doctor as sincerely as I do..." thing... but after considering the many diverse and thoughtful arguments, I can now appreciate both the YES and NOs here. I suppose physicians are not a simple, let alone homogeneous, people.

I suppose if I could just say one thing it's that I hope we all realize that the most rewarding parts of a physicians work don't come in his/her paycheck every month (and don't say "yeah, it gets direct deposited..." I know you two or three jerks were thinking it, hehe)

 

[GoldShadow]

I suppose if I could just say one thing it's that I hope we all realize that the most rewarding parts of a physicians work don't come in his/her paycheck every month (and don't say "yeah, it gets direct deposited..." I know you two or three jerks were thinking it, hehe)

I'm not saying this statement is true or false, but it seems kind of odd that you're making such an assertion as someone who is not a doctor.

 

[majahops]

If you're a person who has spent their life looking for opportunities to make other peoples' lives better, areas where such opportunities genuinely exist become pretty apparent to you.

I'm not saying this statement is true or false, but it seems kind of odd that you're making such an assertion as someone who is not a doctor.

 

[Vera18]

Consider the following hypothetical scenario:

The AMA (and every other major governing body or organization of influence) decides that there will be a cap placed on the amount that any physician can make, per year, at $75,000... (which would of course be adjusted according to inflation, etc as time went by, but would remain relatively equal to that for the foreseeable future).

To relieve what would become an outrageous amount of debt, the government would completely fund every cent of your medical education.

Free medschool?

Hell yes!

 

[majahops]

On the one hand, you say you will lose "highly competitive, highly driven, highly ambitious people" ... then you talk about how you'd rather have the "brilliant surgeon." Why didn't you use "brilliant" when you were talking about who you'd lose? Why do we assume that the most brilliant people would be the people to leave? Anyone who can get into medical school is capable of making money elsewhere. I wouldn't say that the brightest are necessarily likely to make more money than the median medical students, if they decide not to go into medicine. I agree about the highly competitive, highly driven and ambitious people... but I don't see why you implicitly equate those things with brilliance.

No chance. I do not suffer from premedicitis. There is absolutely no way I would be willing to work as hard as doctors work if I was not being paid what I was worth for it. No way. That's not to say money is THE most important aspect of medicine to me, it's not. But if you expect me to spend my 20s first in the library, and then as an intern/resident being abused in the wards, pro-bono, forget it. That's bloody insulting.

Drop the salary down to $75k and you lose out on a ton of highly competitive, highly driven, highly ambitious people. At the end of the day, I'd much prefer the brilliant surgeon who went in it for the love of money to the mediocre one who does it because he loves to help. The latter might be a nicer, friendlier, better human being, but that doesn't mean he's better at cutting.