Poll: Would you still pursue an MD/DO if the salary was capped at $100k?

[DoctorSynthesis]

This is not a prediction.

Physician salaries will not be capped at 100k anytime in the future.

You're predicting that you would make more then a 100 k as a physician and this cap would be a significant blow to you

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[Cyberdyne 101]

Drinking my own urine is harmless. Why don't I go to do that to?

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

 

[allantois]

 

[IslandStyle808]

This is not a prediction.

Physician salaries will not be capped at 100k anytime in the future.

I would love to hear your opinion on this thread here.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ndependent-nps-and-pas-as-physicians.1017594/

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I would love to hear your opinion on this thread here.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ndependent-nps-and-pas-as-physicians.1017594/

Before I attempt to answer this, let me clear up a thing or 2. It looks like I took what Doctorsynthesis said about predictions out of context. I was referring specifically to the hypothetical. In reality, I know very little about salaries reimbursements etc.
At this point, I do not agree with that bill.
Nor do I think physician salaries should be capped at 100k or even at 250k for that matter.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Before I attempt to answer this, let me clear up a thing or 2. It looks like I took what Doctorsynthesis said about predictions out of context. I was referring specifically to the hypothetical. In reality, I know very little about salaries reimbursements etc.
At this point, I do not agree with that bill.
Nor do I think physician salaries should be capped at 100k or even at 250k for that matter.

None of us here like this bill. The problem is that physicians are not in as much control of their salaries as some people here believe. Most physicians are either working as employees of hospitals or contracted to them. This leaves them to the mercy of hospital administration and politicians. Even those in private practice in my home state are leaving, because they are not even netting 100k, due to declining reimbursements from insurance companies and high cost of living. In this instance, they are at the mercy of insurance companies. It is not out of the realm of possibility that physicians salaries could be capped or limited (maybe not a 100k, but definitely somewhat lower than now). I agree that physicians would not put up with a salary of under 100k without a good fight.

 

[zaben]

.

 

[Ismet]

Idk this thread is pins and needles to me.

Is it OK to post a thread would you still buy a car if it you could only buy a 30 k car.

I mean this thread is better then would you still go to med if you had zero debt (what?)

That's setting the bar very low though

I liked your post about not making the thread

If you don't like the thread topic, you don't have to read it or respond.

My post in the other thread about not making this thread was just pulling @Lamel 's chain. The face on the internet usually conveys some form of facetiousness.
I get that these kinds of threads make people think about things differently. I'm quite practical and personally don't care to think about what I would do in a situation that would never happen, but some people like doing that, so you just let it be. Like @Cyberdyne 101 said, they're harmless fun.

And no, no threads about buying cars or drinking urine please. This thread is relevant to medicine.

And now, back to the topic!

 

[allantois]

I think vets actually exist under this hypothetical.

 

[NontradCA]

No chance. I don't have debt, and still wouldn't do it for a 100k endpoint. That's not to say that I'm in it for the money, it's just too much of a commitment for anything less.

I'd be an actuary or an accountant probably. There's plenty of lifestyle and money in those fields.

 

[aspirantmed]

.. If someone also capped the costs of medical education ..

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

If you don't like the thread topic, you don't have to read it or respond.

My post in the other thread about not making this thread was just pulling @Lamel 's chain. The face on the internet usually conveys some form of facetiousness.
I get that these kinds of threads make people think about things differently. I'm quite practical and personally don't care to think about what I would do in a situation that would never happen, but some people like doing that, so you just let it be. Like @Cyberdyne 101 said, they're harmless fun.

And no, no threads about buying cars or drinking urine please. This thread is relevant to medicine.

And now, back to the topic!

Its not revalant to medicine as pay caps aren't a real thing.

All this thread accomplishes is it makes physicians seem to be gready which is far from true

 

[Omppu27]

No.

 

[M12B]

I said yes. I'm not in it for the money. (and for me that's not just the standard Pre-allo robot response) Sure I want financial security, but I am financially secure now, I enjoy living frugally, no frills.

I think those bashing the "yessers" are assuming that every Pre-med wants the 100k+ lifestyle. Big house, nice car, new things. I don't. I am currently in the 25-28k salary range, and with a roommate I live very comfortably. I don't need more space/more stuff. Looking to one day own a super small house. Tiny House movement FTW, plus it's less to clean!

Stuff is just stuff, houses are for sleeping, I want to live my life outside of my home.

Edited to add tag @Doctor Dream because you were interested in a "yesser's" rationale.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

None of us here like this bill. The problem is that physicians are not in as much control of their salaries as some people here believe. Most physicians are either working as employees of hospitals or contracted to them. This leaves them to the mercy of hospital administration and politicians. Even those in private practice in my home state are leaving, because they are not even netting 100k,
due to declining reimbursements from insurance companies and high cost of living. In this instance, they are at the mercy of insurance companies. It is not out of the realm of possibility that physicians salaries could be capped or limited (maybe not a 100k, but definitely somewhat lower than now). I agree that physicians would not put up with a salary of under 100k without a good fight.

FWIW, I didn't tie this thread to the current state of declining physician salaries. I just tried to picture a completely different universe in which all physicians are capped at 100k (even those that currently make over 400k). Maybe that was also the perspective of others that answered "yes."
And I'm actually curious to see how ppl would answer this question if they had no knowledge of current physician salaries. But obviously, that's impossible to know, unless you're Professor X.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Its not revalant to medicine as pay caps aren't a real thing.

All this thread accomplishes is it makes physicians seem to be gready which is far from true

I disagree. I don't see anything wrong with a desire to be well compensated. And I'm sure others who voted yes feel the same.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I disagree. I don't see anything wrong with a desire to be well compensated. And I'm sure others who voted yes feel the same.

I agree there is nothing wrong with wanting to have a fair compensation.

However if I was an average working american working two jobs to make ends meat how do you think I would feel? You think this puts physicians in a positive light seeing then scoff at a 100 k salary? If I was that american I would be pissed and wouldn't want to hear your argument about the money or time you spent to get there (no matter how logical it is). I would be pissed. Someone complaining about earning a salary out of reach of many Americans sounds greedy.

I agree its perfectly fair for physicians to be fairly compensated. However its not something we must talk about. Even worse is when we make a pointless thread mocking a fictional cap that will never happen which is out of reach of many Americans who can't even find a job.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I agree there is nothing wrong with wanting to have a fair compensation.

However if I was an average working american working two jobs to make ends meat how do you think I would feel? You think this puts physicians in a positive light seeing then scoff at a 100 k salary? If I was that american I would be pissed and wouldn't want to hear your argument about the money or time you spent to get there. I would be pissed. Someone complaining about earning a salary out of reach of many Americans sounds greedy.

I agree its perfectly fair for physicians to be fairly compensated. However its not something we must talk about. Even worse is when we make a pointless thread mocking a fictional cap that will never happen which is out of reach of many Americans who can't even find a job.

I see your point. Although, I think we're safe discussing this on SDN. I don't think the "nay voters" will be jumped by angry blue-collar workers anytime soon.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I see your point. Although, I think we're safe discussing this on SDN. I don't think the "nay voters" will be jumped by angry blue-colored workers anytime soon.

This is an online website. You don't know who is on here. At the best this thread is harmless at its worst it makes physicians look bad. So what's the point?

 

[darklabel]

I think vets actually exist under this hypothetical.

Yup and its actually worse than this since its difficult to be employed as a vet. People on here tend to link IBR/PAYE with medicals students, but there are a lot of other students who depend on the government's favorable payment options to get by.

I said yes. I'm not in it for the money. (and for me that's not just the standard Pre-allo robot response) Sure I want financial security, but I am financially secure now, I enjoy living frugally, no frills.

I think those bashing the "yessers" are assuming that every Pre-med wants the 100k+ lifestyle. Big house, nice car, new things. I don't. I am currently in the 25-28k salary range, and with a roommate I live very comfortably. I don't need more space/more stuff. Looking to one day own a super small house. Tiny House movement FTW, plus it's less to clean!

Stuff is just stuff, houses are for sleeping, I want to live my life outside of my home.

It's interesting since I don't ever see any residents/attendings come on here saying something like this. Its usually either premeds or medical students early in their careers. However, the way I see is it isn't about having nice things, but its about having a family and living comfortably after sacrificing so much. Physicians sacrifice a lot in their home life and miss things like graduations, soccer games, weddings etc and they tend to deal with stresses that most jobs don't have and now the newest crop of students are dealing with an increasing debt load with an uncertain future about the kind of compensation we can expect down the line.

Having a family is expensive on its own and there are a lot of places where 100k isn't much to live off of (especially after taxes, which can take off about 1/3 of that). Combine that with a 200k-250k debt load (unless you're blessed to have well-off parents, a scholarship or saved up) and the fact that you'll easily work more than 40+ hours a week and you'll realize that it would've been better to just settle for ~40k - 50k with less responsibility, less debt and a better home life. If you're ok with never having kids and just a wife who also works, then I guess 100k is perfectly fine in most places, just personally wouldn't be worth it for me at all.

 

[Lamel]

This is an online website. You don't know who is on here. At the best this thread is harmless at its worst it makes physicians look bad. So what's the point?

You'll see I put 2 "no" choices, just to see how important money/lifestyle is vs. a patient care career, so it does provide some more insight into motivation, interpret it whichever way you like.

Your argument that we shouldn't discuss this because blue collar workers will be pissed is laughable. The reality is that 100k is a low salary for physicians, but high overall; the point of the 100k cap is to simply make people think if this would be the right career for them if physician's were compensated significantly lower than they are now. Forget about the number, you're looking into it too much; I didn't make this thread to mock anyone or anything, it was for my own (and others') curiosity.

The point of the thread is just to make you think, but for some reason you're against this? "I agree its perfectly fair for physicians to be fairly compensated. However its not something we must talk about." That is a downright foolish stance.

 

[allantois]

However if I was an average working american working two jobs to make ends meat how do you think I would feel? You think this puts physicians in a positive light seeing then scoff at a 100 k salary? If I was that american I would be pissed and wouldn't want to hear your argument about the money or time you spent to get there (no matter how logical it is). I would be pissed. Someone complaining about earning a salary out of reach of many Americans sounds greedy.

 

[maxilofacial]

Now we have Mother Teresa here...

 

[MarylandMatt]

Nope. I'd put my major to good use and go into healthcare management.

 

[ciruji]

I said yes. I'm not in it for the money. (and for me that's not just the standard Pre-allo robot response) Sure I want financial security, but I am financially secure now, I enjoy living frugally, no frills.

I think those bashing the "yessers" are assuming that every Pre-med wants the 100k+ lifestyle. Big house, nice car, new things. I don't. I am currently in the 25-28k salary range, and with a roommate I live very comfortably. I don't need more space/more stuff. Looking to one day own a super small house. Tiny House movement FTW, plus it's less to clean!

Seriously, nobody in this forum cares about your humbleness rant and anti-materialism point of view.

Stuff is just stuff, houses are for sleeping, I want to live my life outside of my home.

 

[fellowstudent92]

I said yes. I'm not in it for the money. (and for me that's not just the standard Pre-allo robot response) Sure I want financial security, but I am financially secure now, I enjoy living frugally, no frills.

I think those bashing the "yessers" are assuming that every Pre-med wants the 100k+ lifestyle. Big house, nice car, new things. I don't. I am currently in the 25-28k salary range, and with a roommate I live very comfortably. I don't need more space/more stuff. Looking to one day own a super small house. Tiny House movement FTW, plus it's less to clean!

Stuff is just stuff, houses are for sleeping, I want to live my life outside of my home.

Edited to add tag @Doctor Dream because you were interested in a "yesser's" rationale.

Trust me, you won't feel that way when you're trying to impress girls or other people in your life like your family. I don't care how humble you act. Everybody wants this to some extent. And like everybody else, physicians just want their hard work to pay off.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

You'll see I put 2 "no" choices, just to see how important money/lifestyle is vs. a patient care career, so it does provide some more insight into motivation, interpret it whichever way you like.

Your argument that we shouldn't discuss this because blue collar workers will be pissed is laughable. The reality is that 100k is a low salary for physicians, but high overall; the point of the 100k cap is to simply make people think if this would be the right career for them if physician's were compensated significantly lower than they are now. Forget about the number, you're looking into it too much; I didn't make this thread to mock anyone or anything, it was for my own (and others') curiosity.

The point of the thread is just to make you think, but for some reason you're against this? "I agree its perfectly fair for physicians to be fairly compensated. However its not something we must talk about." That is a downright foolish stance.

While I understand your intentions are fine this thread comes off to me as greedy. You're doing no one any favors with this thread.

Also don't act like you don't know if the compensation was so low you can barely off debt that not nearly as many people would be interested.

 

[Theafoni]

I would if school tuition was free.

 

[M12B]

Seriously, nobody in this forum cares about your humbleness rant and anti-materialism point of view.

Someone asked for a yes responder's rationale and I gave it, it's simply my opinion. In a discussion, isn't that what you're supposed to do? Provide your point of view, and listen to others' points of view with open minds? I do not buy into the anti-consumerist discouragement of growth of materialism. I don't care if Joe Schmo buys x, y, and z products. If that's what makes Joe Schmo happy, then great! But that doesn't mean that I have to want x, y, and z as well. I'm not trying to be humble, and I don't think wanting to live a lavish lifestyle means one has greed or hubris.

Trust me, you won't feel that way when you're trying to impress girls or other people in your life like your family. I don't care how humble you act. Everybody wants this to some extent. And like everybody else, physicians just want their hard work to pay off.

Who says I'm trying to impress anybody? I agree with your point that everyone wants their hard work to pay off, but I also believe that there are other benefits to hard work besides monetary compensation.
I'm a simple person, I enjoy a simple home life, that's all.

All that being said, I feel I should offer that I agree with a poster earlier (can't remember which) regarding geed. I may not feel that high pay is important to me, but I in NO WAY believe that those who do are greedy. Physicians wanting to be compensated appropriately for their hard work, dedication, skill set, and years of education is not greedy at all! They should be appropriately compensated! But, for all of the reasons I have given, if asked if I would still pursue this career path with a salary cap, my personal answer is yes.

It's interesting since I don't ever see any residents/attendings come on here saying something like this. Its usually either premeds or medical students early in their careers. However, the way I see is it isn't about having nice things, but its about having a family and living comfortably after sacrificing so much. Physicians sacrifice a lot in their home life and miss things like graduations, soccer games, weddings etc and they tend to deal with stresses that most jobs don't have and now the newest crop of students are dealing with an increasing debt load with an uncertain future about the kind of compensation we can expect down the line.

Having a family is expensive on its own and there are a lot of places where 100k isn't much to live off of (especially after taxes, which can take off about 1/3 of that). Combine that with a 200k-250k debt load (unless you're blessed to have well-off parents, a scholarship or saved up) and the fact that you'll easily work more than 40+ hours a week and you'll realize that it would've been better to just settle for ~40k - 50k with less responsibility, less debt and a better home life. If you're ok with never having kids and just a wife who also works, then I guess 100k is perfectly fine in most places, just personally wouldn't be worth it for me at all.

Well put. I think it is entirely possible that my feelings on this could change post med-school, I'll have to wait and see. As for now, I'm content.

 

[fellowstudent92]

Someone asked for a yes responder's rationale and I gave it, it's simply my opinion. In a discussion, isn't that what you're supposed to do? Provide your point of view, and listen to others' points of view with open minds? I do not buy into the anti-consumerist discouragement of growth of materialism. I don't care if Joe Schmo buys x, y, and z products. If that's what makes Joe Schmo happy, then great! But that doesn't mean that I have to want x, y, and z as well. I'm not trying to be humble, and I don't think wanting to live a lavish lifestyle means one has greed or hubris.



Who says I'm trying to impress anybody? I agree with your point that everyone wants their hard work to pay off, but I also believe that there are other benefits to hard work besides monetary compensation.
I'm a simple person, I enjoy a simple home life, that's all.

All that being said, I feel I should offer that I agree with a poster earlier (can't remember which) regarding geed. I may not feel that high pay is important to me, but I in NO WAY believe that those who do are greedy. Physicians wanting to be compensated appropriately for their hard work, dedication, skill set, and years of education is not greedy at all! They should be appropriately compensated! But, for all of the reasons I have given, if asked if I would still pursue this career path with a salary cap, my personal answer is yes.



Well put. I think it is entirely possible that my feelings on this could change post med-school, I'll have to wait and see. As for now, I'm content.

You'll get there eventually lol. A family member of mine loveeesss bragging about his salary every time he comes over because that's the one thing he's got to show for all his hard work.

 

[G_Marker]

Yes, absolutely. But then, I'm interested in primary care, which does have a salary of around 100 k, I think.

I've been very fortunate because money has never been a big issue for me. I can understand how that cap might discourage many from applying to medical school. At the very least, it would have to be accompanied by a drop in the tuition rate.

 

[Omppu27]

Yes, absolutely. But then, I'm interested in primary care, which does have a salary of around 100 k, I think.

I've been very fortunate because money has never been a big issue for me. I can understand how that cap might discourage many from applying to medical school. At the very least, it would have to be accompanied by a drop in the tuition rate.

OP said debt would be the same, so i'm assuming that kind of drop is out of the question.

 

[M12B]

You'll get there eventually lol. A family member of mine loveeesss bragging about his salary every time he comes over because that's the one thing he's got to show for all his hard work.

Yikes! Lol, I bet that makes for interesting family get-togethers haha.

 

[EvenStevens]

Assuming the debt i'd have is similarly lower, sure

 

[Whatyousay]

Considering that premiums for malpractice insurance can hit the high 5 figures for certain high risk specialties (Ob/Gyn, gas), you might actually be making nothing after you factor in debt repayment and taxes.

100k take-home after taxes/insurance/overhead? Sure
100k before all of that mess? lol

 

[radkat101]

Before starting med school- maybe. Only a month into med school- No way.

 

[Lamel]

While I understand your intentions are fine this thread comes off to me as greedy. You're doing no one any favors with this thread.

Also don't act like you don't know if the compensation was so low you can barely off debt that not nearly as many people would be interested.

How is this thread greedy? What favors are you expecting from me? It is a forum meant for discussion, you seem to want to end that. Of course the compensation Is relatively low, how else would you squeeze people enough to really think? You seem to still be struggling with the premise of the thread. As mentioned before if you don't like it don't participate.

 

[EMDO2018]

Kids are so naive

 

[Doctor Dream]

Insane trolly thread.

However I said yes.

I will be in very little debt as it is.

So 100 k would be fine. Could live fine off that. I want to do primary care anyway. Won't even make much more then that as it is.

If your only motivation is money then you will have a very unhappy life.

I'm interested in primary care as well, and depending on your region/scope of practice you could easily make 200k. Also, there's no way you can know you'll be in very little debt.

And yes if money is your only motivation you will be unhappy with your career choice. We all learned that when we were kids and have heard it many times. But if money isn't at least some sort of motivation then why pursue something that takes 11+ years post-secondary education to get a job. I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the reality of the beast. Just in my virtually meaningless pre-med opinion.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Hell no!!!!!!

But the correct answer in pre-allo on SDN is always: I want to work for free, and anyone who wants to make money is evilllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.

It looks like evil has taken a commanding lead in this poll

 

[Planes2Doc]

It looks like evil has taken a commanding lead in this poll

Lol yes!!!!!!

 

[Ace Khalifa]

I clicked "yes," but I now retract my decision. No, it would not be worth it, for me personally, if all physicians had their salary capped at $100,000 and everything else stayed the same. Specialists deserve to make more than generalists because of the extra years of training. Higher compensation for more procedures done instead of emphasizing preventative care is a whole 'nother argument. Physician salary should NEVER be capped. If it's going to be cut, then medical school tuition cost better go down as well.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

anybody answering "yes" is legitimately insane

 

[Silent Cool]

Of course not.

*DUH*

Anyone who says yes is lying.

/thread

 

[fellowstudent92]

lol more interesting would be to find out how many of those that said yes are pre-medical students. That would explain it.

 

[Zelda840]

It would definitely change the game plan, but there's still a scenario where I would consider it. I live in Nebraska, so 100K goes a lot farther here than in many other parts of the country. It would only remain a possibility if I could come out of school with under 150K total debt and I would absolutely go for something with a (relatively) short residency.

 

[The Brown Knight]

Lol I would just buy open up a Subway restaurant with the money that I would have spent in med school and be in a similar financial situation described by OP AND get some free sandwiches

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Lol.
There is currently a 2:1 ratio (approximately) of no to yes votes, and ppl are commenting as if it's the other way around.
The "yes" ppl are lying, insane, don't deserve to be in med school, ultra-naive, and possibly support a real life cap on physician salaries. Moreover, the "nays" may even experience a beatdown like the Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back ending (which I would post if I didn't fear the wrath of the great @Ismet).

 

[Omppu27]

Lol.
There is currently a 2:1 ratio (approximately) of no to yes votes, and ppl are commenting as if it's the other way around.
The "yes" ppl are lying, insane, don't deserve to be in med school, ultra-naive, and possibly support a real life cap on physician salaries. Moreover, the "nays" may even experience a beatdown like the Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back ending (which I would post if I didn't fear the wrath of the great @Ismet).

I can't believe the ratio isn't higher (as in more nays)...