Poor directional/location skills and surgery

[cybermed2424]

Somewhat random question but are there surgeons out there with terrible directional ability/spatial awareness (bad with driving directions, can get lost easily) who became good surgeons? Basically wondering how strong the correlation between spatial awareness and being a competent surgeon is and if the lack of this ability should preclude people, such as myself, from surgery?

Super dumb question but has been on my mind...

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[GoSpursGo]

It's not a dumb question 🙂

There may be some correlation between being good with directions and a good surgeon, but I am positive there are some people out there who are terrible with directions but can keep track of the anatomy as a surgeon. All you can do is see how you do in anatomy and in your surgery clerkship. Keep your options open.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I honored my surgery rotation and aced most of my anatomy quizzes, and I get lost in my own house half the time. The two are not necessarily related.

 

[Dave1980]

I honored my surgery rotation and aced most of my anatomy quizzes, and I get lost in my own house half the time. The two are not necessarily related.

i dont really think OP was looking for the advice of a med student who aced their surgery rotation...

 

[cybermed2424]

Sorry should've said that I already had surgery and while I did do well and honor it, I didn't feel as though I was assessed on the qualities that would make a "good" surgeon in the future

edit: also should add that the surgical sub I am interested in is neurosurgery.

 

[Wordead]

There is no correlation lol

 

[Lem0nz]

@Matthew9Thirtyfive

That sounds like you were an excellent medical student, completely exceeded expectations, but at the end of the day…

3/5. PASS.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

caveat: not a surgeon and definitely won't be one, but it seemed to me from my rotation that body awareness, hand-eye coordination, and ability to process verbal instructions into physical actions was a lot more important than geographic spacial awareness. Like if your attending tells you to move the camera a certain direction in a laparoscopic procedure, you need to be able to be able to process that and complete that action. But it's also dependent on your attending giving you good instructions, because i saw a lot of residents get yelled at for what was ultimately poor attending communication...

In terms of geography, I got lost a lot in and around the OR and people were usually happy to point me in the right direction 😉

 

[Redpancreas]

Move the camera a certain direction in a laparoscopic procedure, you need to be able to be able to process that and complete that action. But it's also dependent on your attending giving you good instructions, because i saw a lot of residents get yelled at for what was ultimately poor attending communication...

Overheard while in the OR:
"GTFO out of that *&^%* you worthless &%&#*&(, stop mucking around there...are you looking for your %&*%$"....meanwhile I'm holding the retractor hoping I'm not the next one to get criticized.

This wasn't an old surgery attending trope, it was the relatively young ** surgery attending. That was when I realized I probably should do something else.

 

[Lawpy]

Overheard while in the OR:
"GTFO out of that *&^%* you worthless &%&#*&(, stop mucking around there...are you looking for your %&*%$"....meanwhile I'm holding the retractor hoping I'm not the next one to get criticized.

This wasn't an old surgery attending stereotyped either, it was the relatively young female attending. That was when I realized I probably should do something else.

Oof that sucks. you got stuck at a malignant surgery site 🙁

 

[Miles Gloriosus]

Overheard while in the OR:
"GTFO out of that *&^%* you worthless &%&#*&(, stop mucking around there...are you looking for your %&*%$"....meanwhile I'm holding the retractor hoping I'm not the next one to get criticized.

This wasn't an old surgery attending trope, it was the relatively young female surgery attending. That was when I realized I probably should do something else.

Im not sure it was relevant to add the female part…. young surgery attending would have still gotten your point across.

 

[mrbreakfast]

Not a surgeon but I would imagine not. From my own surgical rotations and from the surgeons I know, I would say proprioception and good hand-eye coordination in different situations are more important.

Anecdotally, back in med school when I was considering surgery, one of my mentors told me a good way to practice certain aspects of hand-eye coordination that would be useful in procedures (e.g. holding a camera) is to turn your computer mouse 90 degrees. Give that a try, then imagine doing that in three dimensions, not two - that's what holding a camera can be like. You can get accustomed to it, but that's one simple example of the new neural pathways you'll need to form.

 

[nofliesonme]

Plastic surgeon here........spatial awareness is important in plastic surgery.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

i dont really think OP was looking for the advice of a med student who aced their surgery rotation...

Probably not, but my point was that you can do really well in anatomy and have surgical skills without having a good sense of direction. But thanks for the condescending put down. Very productive contribution.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

@Matthew9Thirtyfive

That sounds like you were an excellent medical student, completely exceeded expectations, but at the end of the day…

3/5. PASS.

Haha. That’s my peds rotation actually. On surgery I honored and got offered several LORs. On peds got several evals talking about how amazing my medical knowledge is, how good I am with patients, etc, and then 3/5 lol.

 

[fleetfox]

Ortho spine here - I think spatial awareness is very important for surgery. Like 90% of surgery, though, it can be learned. Not sure that being good with directions or knowing up from down is all that indicative of future success although I would make sure to keep your Google maps on when heading to interviews.

Orienting yourself to 3D anatomy in real time takes practice. Personally I'm good with directions, good hand-eye coordination, etc but I never felt like I was a "natural" when it came to the OR. If you're motivated and interested in getting better, you'll be fine.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Somewhat random question but are there surgeons out there with terrible directional ability/spatial awareness (bad with driving directions, can get lost easily) who became good surgeons? Basically wondering how strong the correlation between spatial awareness and being a competent surgeon is and if the lack of this ability should preclude people, such as myself, from surgery?

Super dumb question but has been on my mind...

I’m a surgeon. I also don’t have the greatest sense of direction when I am walking around on the street. It has nothing to do with understanding anatomy or doing your job, so I wouldn’t worry.