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I was wondering if you can get into a residency program after poor performance at USMLE. I am an IMG passed step I on second attempt and step II on 4 th. Do I have a chance to find a position?
poor usmle performance
- Thread starter Elmo_bigbird
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I assume this is a joke post as I don't think you can even take step II 4 times, but, none the less,
I am sure you can land a spot somewhere in a terrible program in some terrible city in a terribly uncompetitive specialty (prototype FP where 60% FMG last year). If you are a U.S. citizen that is.
If not a citizen, there are plenty of other countries that would die to have someone who failed the boards 5 times and you could do a world of good there and the U.S. doesn't need anymore non citizens who failed the borads five times.
I suggest going to France
Good luck.
I am sure you can land a spot somewhere in a terrible program in some terrible city in a terribly uncompetitive specialty (prototype FP where 60% FMG last year). If you are a U.S. citizen that is.
If not a citizen, there are plenty of other countries that would die to have someone who failed the boards 5 times and you could do a world of good there and the U.S. doesn't need anymore non citizens who failed the borads five times.
I suggest going to France
Good luck.
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Jodg
No it is not a joke. I am citizen of US.
What would those terible program be? Where can I look for them.
No it is not a joke. I am citizen of US.
What would those terible program be? Where can I look for them.
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Wow,
A U.S. citizen in a FM school not passing 5x, while this is plenty i have known people who did not pass step 1 many times (3-4). I'm curious what speciality you want to go into? Not to crash on your dreams, but if you can't pass step2 after 2-3x, then you should consider maybe a non-competitive specialty, and i agree with the above, in a foreign country. I've known people from england and ireland. Also curious, did you not pass because you just didn't study?
A U.S. citizen in a FM school not passing 5x, while this is plenty i have known people who did not pass step 1 many times (3-4). I'm curious what speciality you want to go into? Not to crash on your dreams, but if you can't pass step2 after 2-3x, then you should consider maybe a non-competitive specialty, and i agree with the above, in a foreign country. I've known people from england and ireland. Also curious, did you not pass because you just didn't study?
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I was not always a US citizen but I am one now. I have done well on USMLE step3 the first time. I guess there were many reasons for step2 mostly to do with my status of mind at the time.
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You can definitely get into a US residency as long as you speak decent English.
You will have go into FP or IM in a rural area though, but they take almost all FMGs anyways so its not too hard to get into those kinds of programs.
I am thinking of places like North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, Oklahoma, Wyoming, Utah, etc.
If you apply to enough programs in those states in rural areas, you should be able to match somewhere.
You will have go into FP or IM in a rural area though, but they take almost all FMGs anyways so its not too hard to get into those kinds of programs.
I am thinking of places like North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, Oklahoma, Wyoming, Utah, etc.
If you apply to enough programs in those states in rural areas, you should be able to match somewhere.
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MacGyver and Elmo,
I actually don't think it's all that easy to match in the aforementioned states. New York or Chicago are probably better bets.
I'm a little obsessive about this probably, but I think it's fun to research the program web pages of residency programs. A lot of the FP programs have no IMGs in those states, seriously (don't know about IM). I wish they did, cuz I'm an IMG who wants to match FP in those states (well, almost those states).
Elmo, you'll be fine. Go look at usmle.net and ask the same questions you have asked here. Tons of people match with lousy scores every year. You probably can't be a chooser in this game but you should be able to get something.
I actually don't think it's all that easy to match in the aforementioned states. New York or Chicago are probably better bets.
I'm a little obsessive about this probably, but I think it's fun to research the program web pages of residency programs. A lot of the FP programs have no IMGs in those states, seriously (don't know about IM). I wish they did, cuz I'm an IMG who wants to match FP in those states (well, almost those states).
Elmo, you'll be fine. Go look at usmle.net and ask the same questions you have asked here. Tons of people match with lousy scores every year. You probably can't be a chooser in this game but you should be able to get something.
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Check out http://www.fsmb.org/ for more info on step3. You can take step 3 in few states, they are:
Arkansas, Florida, Nebraska,* South Dakota, Washington Osteo
California, Louisiana,*** New York, Texas, West Virginia,
Connecticut, Maryland,*** North Carolina,** Utah,* Wyoming
*valid, indefinite ECFMG certificate required for international medical graduates
**applies only to domestic medical graduates
***Training required at fourth attempt
Arkansas, Florida, Nebraska,* South Dakota, Washington Osteo
California, Louisiana,*** New York, Texas, West Virginia,
Connecticut, Maryland,*** North Carolina,** Utah,* Wyoming
*valid, indefinite ECFMG certificate required for international medical graduates
**applies only to domestic medical graduates
***Training required at fourth attempt
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Elmo,
how do you get a permanent ECFMG certification? I thought that was after you took step 3??
Congrats on passing it. You could start moonlighting now, isn't that right? Is that something you've looked into?
how do you get a permanent ECFMG certification? I thought that was after you took step 3??
Congrats on passing it. You could start moonlighting now, isn't that right? Is that something you've looked into?
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The USMLE's are a big part of getting a residency, but there's some other things that also play a big role - esp. in FP, IM and Peds etc.
Lots of people will make good, even great, doctors even though not good test takers. Residency programs acknowledge this by placing a strong emphasis on the Dean's letter, 3rd year scores and rec's.
I'm just finishing MS2, but from what I've learned, you'll have a good chance of finding something if you have the other things lined up.
I think the "terrible program, terrible location" statement is typical arrogance that permeates the MD field - and one of the reasons people spend so much on alternative health docs these days. You do need to head for the less competitive fields, but if you have some other qualities that will show up in your app (like freeking perseverance) I'd think you've got a shot.
Lots of people will make good, even great, doctors even though not good test takers. Residency programs acknowledge this by placing a strong emphasis on the Dean's letter, 3rd year scores and rec's.
I'm just finishing MS2, but from what I've learned, you'll have a good chance of finding something if you have the other things lined up.
I think the "terrible program, terrible location" statement is typical arrogance that permeates the MD field - and one of the reasons people spend so much on alternative health docs these days. You do need to head for the less competitive fields, but if you have some other qualities that will show up in your app (like freeking perseverance) I'd think you've got a shot.
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Secretwave 101,
You may think I am arrogant, but you are extremely naive. I am simply attempting to answer the question of the original poster who stated he failed the boards 4 times. Nobody is saying that board scores correlate with how great of a person you are or how compassionate you are. They are meant to correlate with your competency to be a physician.
You can simply ignore my advice or the advice of others, but ignoring advice simply because it is not what you want to hear is foolish. No one is telling the poster not to try to get whatever specialty he wants. I am saying if it were me, I would look at FP, Int med, psych.
And one more thing, did you ever consider that many people with great board scores also had great third year grades, have great community servide, research, activites, and are compassionate people who will make "great doctors".
When a residency director gets 500 applications for 23 spots and con only interview 200, how the hell do you think they are going to start to slim it down.
It borad scores are not important, why don't we all just fail them a couple of times????? I guess that through history we have seen that they are important.
Arrogance: nah, I'd just say common sense
You may think I am arrogant, but you are extremely naive. I am simply attempting to answer the question of the original poster who stated he failed the boards 4 times. Nobody is saying that board scores correlate with how great of a person you are or how compassionate you are. They are meant to correlate with your competency to be a physician.
You can simply ignore my advice or the advice of others, but ignoring advice simply because it is not what you want to hear is foolish. No one is telling the poster not to try to get whatever specialty he wants. I am saying if it were me, I would look at FP, Int med, psych.
And one more thing, did you ever consider that many people with great board scores also had great third year grades, have great community servide, research, activites, and are compassionate people who will make "great doctors".
When a residency director gets 500 applications for 23 spots and con only interview 200, how the hell do you think they are going to start to slim it down.
It borad scores are not important, why don't we all just fail them a couple of times????? I guess that through history we have seen that they are important.
Arrogance: nah, I'd just say common sense
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Hey dude:
as far as your questions are concerned, here goes....
You get permanent ECFMG certification after passing step1,2, CSA, TOEFL, and obtaining the MD/MBBS etc degree. Also, you NEED to be enrolled in a ACGME accredited residency. Typically, your program will sign some paperwork and send it off to ECFMG. THey will send you stickers that mention "certificate valid indefinitely" or something to the effect.
Now, moonlighting can only be performed in the confines of a residency, or after obtaining state licensure, which ofcourse, varies.
The state you are most interested in requires only one year of residency to apply for licensure 🙂
So, clearing USMLE 3 helps, but you also need to be in a residency to moonlight.
hope this helps
as far as your questions are concerned, here goes....
You get permanent ECFMG certification after passing step1,2, CSA, TOEFL, and obtaining the MD/MBBS etc degree. Also, you NEED to be enrolled in a ACGME accredited residency. Typically, your program will sign some paperwork and send it off to ECFMG. THey will send you stickers that mention "certificate valid indefinitely" or something to the effect.
Now, moonlighting can only be performed in the confines of a residency, or after obtaining state licensure, which ofcourse, varies.
The state you are most interested in requires only one year of residency to apply for licensure 🙂
So, clearing USMLE 3 helps, but you also need to be in a residency to moonlight.
hope this helps
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Hey guys,
I agree with the post that mentioned good/bad test scores do not necessarily correlate with how good a doctor you will/can be. Now, as for step 3, as someone who is going into a non-patient care specialty (pathology) how should one study, or do you think we should take step3 at the beginning of the year when our clinical knowlege fund is at it's highest? I doubt a year of path will aid in a patient care scenario USMLE test?
I agree with the post that mentioned good/bad test scores do not necessarily correlate with how good a doctor you will/can be. Now, as for step 3, as someone who is going into a non-patient care specialty (pathology) how should one study, or do you think we should take step3 at the beginning of the year when our clinical knowlege fund is at it's highest? I doubt a year of path will aid in a patient care scenario USMLE test?
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I would take it ASAP, especially when the clinical info is still (somewhat) fresh....the longer you wait, the harder it gets. Of course, we are talking about pathology here. I used Crush Step3, and Blueprint series (with 100 questions for each of the core subjects), also practiced with the CD provided with USMLE. That was sufficient.
HTH
HTH
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Why thank you, kind sir.
However. In the list of states where you can take step 3 before you start residency, some of them have it as a demand that you have a permanent ECFMG certificate. So isn't that kind of a paradox since, like you said, you can't get a perminant dertificate till you start residency? Simply put, is there any way one could take step 3 in South Dakota in the spring leading up to residency?
Regarding moonlighting, not that I'm second-guessing someone so wise in the ways of German, but I read somewhere that you can work at VA hospitals and in reservations with step 3 - before residency. Maybe it's not called moonlighting but something else.
And Imhotep, now that you're sharing advice. Some states require you to get a state license before you start residency. I know Illinois does. How does that work for states like Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan? Do 'ya know?
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Imhotep......Duuuuuuuude.
I just PM'd you and your damn mailbox is full. Ate my message too, the computer did.
All those cyber women you're keeping are getting out of hand, man.
I just PM'd you and your damn mailbox is full. Ate my message too, the computer did.
All those cyber women you're keeping are getting out of hand, man.
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LOL cyber...that's so.......90's.
Anyway, looks like I never deleted any of my old PMs, hence, the full mailbox. As far as working in the VA and/or the reservations are concerned, I believe once you have a state license, any state license, you may "moonlight". Of course, there are some restrictions. For example, some VAs don't allow any resident moonlighting at all. Also, some hospitals allow US grads to do what's called a "paid externship" in the few months ( or weeks)between graduation and commencement of residency. A friend of mine did that. Worked at a docs office. Now, coming back to South Dakota. You can certainly take the STEP3 in the spring prior to pgy1..however, you'd need to apply through a state that requires no pgy experience to be eligible for the exam. There are a few, including California, Maryland, and Connecticut, amongst others. All this means is that you send the $570 to the above mentioned state board ( details available at fsmb.org) But, you may take the exam anywhere in the US, including South Dakota, at the Sylvan prometric center. Also, I thought you were more interested in WI, hence my comment about only needing one year of residency experience before being eligible for permanent licensure. South Dakota requires two years of IMGs.
Hope this helps dude. I cleared my PM box. so you may feel free to PM anytime.
Take care.
oh, and as far as Illinois is concerned, all that means is that you apply for a training license, which is pretty much what you'd need for any other state. Usually your program would help you with the necessary paperwork. Some will actually pay for it, others will make you cough out the dough.
Anyway, looks like I never deleted any of my old PMs, hence, the full mailbox. As far as working in the VA and/or the reservations are concerned, I believe once you have a state license, any state license, you may "moonlight". Of course, there are some restrictions. For example, some VAs don't allow any resident moonlighting at all. Also, some hospitals allow US grads to do what's called a "paid externship" in the few months ( or weeks)between graduation and commencement of residency. A friend of mine did that. Worked at a docs office. Now, coming back to South Dakota. You can certainly take the STEP3 in the spring prior to pgy1..however, you'd need to apply through a state that requires no pgy experience to be eligible for the exam. There are a few, including California, Maryland, and Connecticut, amongst others. All this means is that you send the $570 to the above mentioned state board ( details available at fsmb.org) But, you may take the exam anywhere in the US, including South Dakota, at the Sylvan prometric center. Also, I thought you were more interested in WI, hence my comment about only needing one year of residency experience before being eligible for permanent licensure. South Dakota requires two years of IMGs.
Hope this helps dude. I cleared my PM box. so you may feel free to PM anytime.
Take care.
oh, and as far as Illinois is concerned, all that means is that you apply for a training license, which is pretty much what you'd need for any other state. Usually your program would help you with the necessary paperwork. Some will actually pay for it, others will make you cough out the dough.
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