Position offered outside the match. Question.

[wick215]

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I have just been offered a position outside the match (AOA) but am not to excited about going b/c I really want to go to a few programs AMA. If I accept, I must drop out of the match. It is a new program. I do not want to seriously consider it until I see a copy of the contract, benefits, and cirriculum. Is it wrong to ask the program to send me a copy of all of those before I say yes?

 

[Sheerstress]

Is it wrong to ask the program to send me a copy of all of those before I say yes?

Absolutely not. In fact, I would INSIST on seeing them.

And if they decline, I would strongly question whether you would want to spend the next three years working for them.

 

[ex-oh-medic]

It's inappropriate for them to even ask you to take a position without sending you the contract, benefits, etc...you are tremendously within your rights to ask for them.

-b

 

[DocWagner]

DON'T do it! New AOA programs are suspect and certainly do NOT have the same academic standards as ACGME programs.
Part of YOUR answer deals with how many allopathic interviews have you gone to...interview time is about done.
Do you think you are going to match allopathic or are they simply playing on your fears that you won't match?

 

[DrQuinn]

I agree with DocW. Let me get this straight:

You got offered a position at a new DO EM residency, but want to go to an MD EM residency?

My advice is this: A LOT of the DO EM programs (and, well, all prorams for that matter) offer positions outside the match. Most will offer more people spots than they have intern spots. Because they know that some people will turn it down and go to the MD match.

DocW's advice is strong. Don't let them play on your fears of not matching in EM. If you have a handful of EM interviews at MD institutions (I would say 5+, but safer to have 7+) then do not do the DO route. If you only have 2 or 3, safest thing is to possibly do a OGME-1 year and reapply or just go to the DO program.

Of note also remember than DO programs open and close at a much scarier pace than do the MD programs................. 'nuff said.

Q, DO

 

[Freeeedom!]

Exactly...
It is also likely this new EM program will not match, worse case scenerio is that you would scramble into their program if you do not scramble allopathic.

Slow and steady wins the race.


I absolutely love Little Debbie Zebra Cakes! Who's with me?

 

[DrQuinn]

partial to the star crunches myself, although it has been a few years since iv'e had one (damn new year's resolution to work out).

Q, DO

 

[kungfufishing]

I am currently in the same predicament you are in. Although the new, uglier Quinn doesnt quite have the cred afforded by the old avatar, he's totally right. The fact that I was "rolling the dice" was pointed out to me ad nauseum by DO PD's. I finally decided that
1. my risk of not matching MD was extremely low
2. The allopathic residencies offered better structure and opportunity
3. Although I would be disappointed if I didnt match, I would be more disappointed with myself if I didnt make an attempt at my greater goals.

Admittedly, this also depends on how comfortable you are with your interviews and what you really want out of residency. but my $.02

 

[Emo]

I am also being offered a spot at an osteopathic program in Miami and was told I am ranked "high" for another program in Columbus, OH. Problem is I only interviewed at 3 MD places, 2 of which I did my electives at. I thought about taking the path of least resistance and enjoying Miami but then I think about the ultimate goal of being well trained. I think the worst case scenario is to not to participate in the DO match and not match in the MD match and do a DO traditional rotating internship. Any thoughts?

-Em

p.s. I find Tasty Kakes prettty, uh, well tasty

 

[wick215]

Thanks for all the advice. I have decided that I have enough interviews to match and I was uneasy about a new program's training. Wish me luck!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Coleman]

this is a question of complete curiosity to satisy my ignorance, nothing more.

Just curious why more DO graduates do not want to go to a DO residency as their first choice? Doesn't it fit in more with your training as a student and fulfill the required prelim year?

Thanks

C

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by Coleman
this is a question of complete curiosity to satisy my ignorance, nothing more.

Just curious why more DO graduates do not want to go to a DO residency as their first choice? Doesn't it fit in more with your training as a student and fulfill the required prelim year?

Thanks

C

I'll give you my personal reasons, Coleman...

A) Many of the DO programs are 4 years, some (from what I remember) can be up to 6 years long.
B) The pathology at the DO programs may not be as good as some of their MD counterparts. Many are not at trauma centers, and some are overshadowed by larger hospitals that have a much higher draw area (i.e. the York DO EM program... I think their annual census is 18k).
C) Simply the prestige of these programs is no where near the MD institutions.
D) Many are in undesirable states for me (OH, MI, PA).
E) Base salary as an intern/resident is muhc lower (the DO residents in FL make around 31k)
F) DO EM programs are more prone to being shut down due to funding issues or accredidation

Q, DO

 

[Freeeedom!]

Let me also add this

1. The fundamental idea of the 1 year required interniship in the AOA is faulty and I refuse to take part in a requirement that HURTS its own graduates and the only purpose is to maintain staffing at DO institutions that would not have residents otherwise.
Therefore, I chose to do the standard 3 year allopathic EM residency which I found far superior to any DO residency of 4 years in length, I will not be doing the traditional rotating DO internship. I will, in its place, be doing a fellowship year.
Therefore, in 4 years I will have graduated from a superior, well structured residency (with research), and a 1 year fellowship...rather than a 4 year DO EM residency.

2. While I miss the brotherhood that DO programs ultimately possess, I feel part of EM community that is well recognized and no one will ever challenge. I can work in ANY EM setting without questions. I have been taught by EM BOARD CERTIFIED faculty...something that CAN NOT be guaranteed in DO EM residencies (see latest JAOA). It is a safer bet for me.

3. This in NO WAY discredits the education of DO residents as the ones I have worked with have been very good. But they have admitted to me that they wish they had more structure and a wider patient base.