Positives of SGU?

[howyoulov3me]

Hey guys. I'm posting this thread hoping to hear about some positives of attending SGU. The Caribbean gets bashed a lot on SDN and while I understand that there are major risks in going to a foreign school, I would appreciate some encouraging words. Some of us don't have many options and hearing about how terrible of an idea it is can be a huge burden. The fact of the matter is that there are people who go there and put in lots of effort, get good scores, and eventually match for residencies in the end. For those of you who attend/attended SGU, what were some of the best things about it? What about as a resident or doctor itself? I'm really excited to see what the future holds for me!

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[BDUS]

I went to SGU and graduated in 2011 and match into my choice of residency (pediatrics) and so did my peers and I know very few from my class (hand full that failed out or didn't match as anecdotal experience).

BUT the school class size has doubled. Obtaining residency will be tougher for IMGs in the future as you have obviously read about. So, I don't think my experience is going to reflect what is to come.

 

[deleted480308]

what is the reason you think it's your only option?

 

[Rypto]

SGU is a great school. They train their students just as well as most US schools. They have a long track record of getting students into US residencies. Around 1/3 match into their top choice specialty as well. Don't count on getting a competitive residency though (orthopedics, derm, etc.). But if you are motivated, hard working, want to be a physician really badly, and don't mind matching into FP or IM, then SGU might be for you.

 

[deleted480308]

They train their students just as well as most US schools.

Sorry, not true

 

[Rypto]

Sorry, not true

Evidence? From what I hear they are held to the same standards as US schools and receive federal funding because of that.

 

[deleted480308]

Evidence? From what I hear they are held to the same standards as US schools and receive federal funding because of that.

If you believe the ability to receive federal loans qualifies as evidence as equivalent education, you are mistaken

 

[Rypto]

If you believe the ability to receive federal loans qualifies as evidence as equivalent education, you are mistaken

I take the 800+ students matching into US residencies every year from SGU as evidence that residency program directors think that SGU has produced capable doctors who are able to compete with US medical graduates. And seeing as I have yet to be provided/find evidence to the contrary, I will stand by my opinion.

 

[deleted480308]

I take the 800+ students matching into US residencies every year from SGU as evidence that residency program directors think that SGU has produced capable doctors who are able to compete with US medical graduates. And seeing as I have yet to be provided/find evidence to the contrary, I will stand by my opinion.

Go ahead and compare the number of matriculants each year to the number matching and get back to me

 

[Rypto]

Go ahead and compare the number of matriculants each year to the number matching and get back to me

~850 students matched from ~1250 matriculants. ~850 students matched from ~1000 residency applicants. Yes, these percentages are significantly lower than US med schools, as most people already know. But that in no way proves that the quality of education provided at the university is inferior. It simply says that not everyone accepted into the school are qualified enough to take on the medical school curriculum.

 

[deleted480308]

~850 students matched from ~1250 matriculants. ~850 students matched from ~1000 residency applicants. Yes, these percentages are significantly lower than US med schools, as most people already know. But that in no way proves that the quality of education provided at the university is inferior. It simply says that not everyone accepted into the school are qualified enough to take on the medical school curriculum.

OP, take a good look at those numbers and ask yourself if you like those odds enough to bet $300k on them

 

[Mad Jack]

~850 students matched from ~1250 matriculants. ~850 students matched from ~1000 residency applicants. Yes, these percentages are significantly lower than US med schools, as most people already know. But that in no way proves that the quality of education provided at the university is inferior. It simply says that not everyone accepted into the school are qualified enough to take on the medical school curriculum.

Losing a third of your students isn't exactly stellar, nor is the fact that a whole third of the remaining class getting a residency in their field of choice. Basically, that means that 22.1% of SGU matriculants eventually end up practicing in the specialty they'd envisioned, a number that is actually less than the number that fail out. You are 50% more likely to fail out of SGU and never become a physician than you are to practice in the specialty of your choice, woo, sign me up.

The only "advantage" SGU has is that it is the best Caribbean school. It is a cut below any US MD or DO school, both in terms of attrition and match rates. It costs more than any US school. And some of the matches that it does get only happen because they pay off certain programs to take their students. If you have no other options, SGU is a possibility, but not a great one, as there's a very, very strong chance that you'll end up in the batch of people that either fail out or don't match, and that even if you do, it'll very often be in the middle of nowhere after having applied to >100 programs. If you want to take on over 400k in debt and spend 4 years of your life for something that has worse odds of turning out well than actually gambling with that near-half million dollars in Vegas, then be my guest and go Carib.

 

[Rypto]

Losing a third of your students isn't exactly stellar, nor is the fact that a whole third of the remaining class getting a residency in their field of choice. Basically, that means that 22.1% of SGU matriculants eventually end up practicing in the specialty they'd envisioned, a number that is actually less than the number that fail out. You are 50% more likely to fail out of SGU and never become a physician than you are to practice in the specialty of your choice, woo, sign me up.

The only "advantage" SGU has is that it is the best Caribbean school. It is a cut below any US MD or DO school, both in terms of attrition and match rates. It costs more than any US school. And some of the matches that it does get only happen because they pay off certain programs to take their students. If you have no other options, SGU is a possibility, but not a great one, as there's a very, very strong chance that you'll end up in the batch of people that either fail out or don't match, and that even if you do, it'll very often be in the middle of nowhere after having applied to >100 programs. If you want to take on over 400k in debt and spend 4 years of your life for something that has worse odds of turning out well than actually gambling with that near-half million dollars in Vegas, then be my guest and go Carib.

To clarify, SGU doesn't lose a third of its students. The attrition rate is between 10-20%, which also includes students who drop out as well as students who transfer into US and other foreign medical schools that still continue on to become doctors. And yes, only 35% of SGU students matched into their TOP choice. But, only 49% of US students matched into their TOP choice also. So, the difference is around 15%. Lastly, the SGU cost of attendance is very comparible to those of DO schools and many MD schools such as NYU, and it does not cost more than "any US school". Yes, SGU pays off certain programs to take their students, but as long as they get U.S. residencies and can practice as physicians in the U.S., I highly doubt the students care. Please do not throw around unwarranted statistics to scare people off. But be realistic. Yes, going to SGU decreases your chances of getting into a residency. But it is not a bad decision for students who I described to be hard working, motivated, and comfortable matching into FM/IM.

 

[deleted480308]

$245k in tuition (before any other living expenses/fees) is expensive when compared with the expenses of most medical schools

 

[Rypto]

$245k in tuition (before any other living expenses/fees) is expensive when compared with the expenses of most medical schools

Agreed. This is one factor that needs to be taken into account before attending. The cost of attendance for all four years at SGU will be around $400k. Many US medical schools will cost around $300-$320k. However, I have talked to many SGU graduates and none of them had any complaints about paying back loans. SGU students are able to take out federal loans for the entire cost of attendance and the repayment plans are generous.

 

[Mad Jack]

$245k in tuition (before any other living expenses/fees) is expensive when compared with the expenses of most medical schools

My school had the highest median student loan debt of any medical school a few years back, and even our tuition is only 220k.

 

[Rypto]

My school had the highest median student loan debt of any medical school a few years back, and even our tuition is only 220k.

The cost of attendance, rather than tuition/fees, is what is to be looked at. NYU for example may only have $52000 in tuition/fees, but living in Manhattan adds another $28000 a year, making the cost of attendance $80000 a year. Western University of Health Sciences is a DO school in California that has a cost of attendance of $85000 a year. SGU has a cost of attendance of $90000. So yes, pricier than most schools, but makes sense since it is a for-profit institution.

 

[Mad Jack]

The cost of attendance, rather than tuition/fees, is what is to be looked at. NYU for example may only have $52000 in tuition/fees, but living in Manhattan adds another $28000 a year, making the cost of attendance $80000 a year. Western University of Health Sciences is a DO school in California that has a cost of attendance of $85000 a year. SGU has a cost of attendance of $90000. So yes, pricier than most schools, but makes sense since it is a for-profit institution.

It's the priciest of all medical schools while offering worse results than all MD and DO schools overall. How is that a good thing or justifiable?

 

[VelvetAngel]

What is IM IMG and FM

 

[Skip Intro]

What is IM IMG and FM

rly?

-skip

 

[chicagochildpsych]

As a Caribbean grad who taught at a U.S. Allopathic medical school, I can assure you that my experience at AUC (I can't speak to SGU, I never went there and I'm not arrogant enough to dismiss a place I have never seen) was excellent, and our didactics were far superior to LSU (where I worked). That being said, I saw complete *****s with no true appititude for medicine getting amazing residencies out of LSU, and I saw friends in the Carib struggling to get mid tier university spots with 250+ step scores. The bias against Carib students is real (and unjustified). The guy who is Asian from New York, California, Texas, or Florida who has a 3.6 and a 28 Mcat will not make the cut, a yokel in West Virginia with lower scores will get into both Marshall and WVU. It's not fair, but the bias effects residency chances, therefore I would go DO before Carib. Just try not to get mad when people confuse you with a glorified chiropractor.

 

[Juneilow]

There are a lot of numbers being thrown around unattributed, so I thought I'd throw in the actual figures.

Tuition and fees (plus health insurance) at SGU is about $54K/yr. Total estimated cost of attendance is about $79K, though you can really pare that down when you consider it's easier to get cheaper housing than they estimate, you don't have to buy your books past Term 1, you can use your own medical insurance if you have it, and it's up to you how frugal you are with food and other expenses.

http://etalk.sgu.edu/Contribute/finaid2/school-of-medicine-student-budgets.html

The AAMC published report shows that about 30 private U.S. med schools are more expensive, and about 45 public ones if you're a non-resident (which you're gonna be for the majority of schools), which means that over 50% of U.S. M.D. med schools are more expensive than St. George's in tuition/fees/insurance.

private: https://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/report.cfm?select_control=PRI&year_of_study=2015
public: https://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/report.cfm?select_control=PUB&year_of_study=2015

How much they vary in terms housing and food will obviously depend on the city; I lived in a tiny studio in New York City for $1779/mo but my friends have a three bedroom/four bathroom house with a yard in Grenada for $850/mo/person.

My only point is showing that the popular conception of SGU being more expensive than most/all U.S. schools is not entirely backed up by the numbers. It's certainly more expensive than any of the other Caribbean schools. Furthermore, it's indisputable that paying Cornell, Yale, et al. $250K would give you far superior chances at matching than paying SGU $250K. But a lot of people seem to think that not only do you have worse chances, you're also going further into debt than at any U.S. school, which doesn't seem to be the case. If you go to Grenada rather than the KBT, you're covered by U.S. loans the same as any other school.

 

[drcrispmd]

Not all students who go to SGU go back to the U.S. after finishing. Some return to their home country in Africa, Caribbean or go back home to England or Canada. SGU has a pretty good number of Africans and carib students. So, when you look at match rate you need to look at how many actually applied to residency and not take the entire class size into account.

As far as training, I was more prepared for residency from my clinicals than the U.S. Or DO grads. We as students did not have work hour restrictions, so I had done several 24-36 hour calls. I have worked with US students and sgu clinical training is good.

Most I know in my class got their top choice of programs. I marched into my first choice (which was a university program). Now that I am out of residency I have medical students from a U.S. MD school rotate with me. I know of a small number that did fail out (<5).

If you want info on SGU match list it is on their website for the past several years and goes up to pgy 10. The list fellowships if it was reported to them (several are not). The names of people are listed as well and whether it is prelim or categorical.

If you really want info and accurate experiences talk to people who went there.

Class sizes have increased over the past few years. It is hard to say what it would be like to match in 4 years but it will not get easier and do need to realize that.

 

[Juneilow]

To address "equivalent education", the most updated data I could find was 2013, but SGU's mean USMLE was 227 and overall U.S./Canada was 229, with a SD of 21, which puts SGU just about 3.5 percentage points behind U.S. students. That doesn't sound heinous. (Though it's 4:30 AM and I calculated the z-score myself so I might be entirely wrong about this.) In 2013 they also had a slightly higher first-time pass rate than U.S. schools, but you can take or leave that data because you can technically pass with a 195 and that won't get you anywhere.

SGU data: http://www.sgu.edu/media/top-reasons/school-of-medicine/reason3.html

USMLE: http://www.usmle.org/pdfs/transcripts/USMLE_Step_Examination_Score_Interpretation_Guidelines.pdf

howyoulov3me, I'd be happy to talk to you more if you want to message me privately. Any discussion of SGU on SDN just turns into people feeling good about themselves by bashing it in every conceivable way. Going to probably any U.S. medical school is less risky than going to the Caribbean, but I had good stats and didn't get in over two cycles, and didn't want to go the D.O. route. People are already poised and ready to call me an idiot for not applying D.O., but I wanted the M.D. degree and I knew I was academically capable, so I decided to do it. People are also so quick to judge the entire student body of a school they have never been to. I'm here, I'm living it. There is the odd blockhead you can get anywhere, but the vast majority are clever and extremely capable. If you want to say that going to SGU is riskier than M.D. or D.O. in the U.S., that's the proven truth and people should know the stats before they make a decision. But when you start calling all SGU students poorly-trained and -educated, it's clear that you've crossed into "blatant lies" territory for the purpose of feeling superior.

Edit: Update two years later because people are still coming across this post: I matched. No regrets.

 

[W19]

@Juneilow I have never understood the animosity against carib students in SDN... I worked with some SGU grads and they were excellent docs... I agree with everything you say... However, there is one very critical thing you say that people should pay attention to... getting 195 in step1 will not get you anywhere as carib student. But if you are a US student, you still can match in FM/IM/Psych or other non competitive specialties with that score.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

@Juneilow I have never understood the animosity against carib students in SDN... I worked with some SGU grads and they were excellent docs... I agree with everything you say... However, there is one very critical thing you say that people should pay attention to... getting 195 in step1 will not get you anywhere as carib student. But if you are a US student, you still can match in FM/IM/Psych or other non competitive specialties with that score.

The bolded portion above is why there is animosity towards the caribbean schools. Yes, they put out some docs that are great. They also put out some docs that aren't. They also have a significant portion not finish, take over the normal 4 years, or don't match. As you said, a 195 for a carib grad is almost a death sentence. It's not so much for a US grad.

 

[crotchrocketer]

The bolded portion above is why there is animosity towards the caribbean schools. Yes, they put out some docs that are great. They also put out some docs that aren't. They also have a significant portion not finish, take over the normal 4 years, or don't match. As you said, a 195 for a carib grad is almost a death sentence. It's not so much for a US grad.

The first part of what you say doesn't make any sense. Think about it... if a Carib student with 195 is finished but a U.S. student is not, one could argue that the bottom feeder US grads are worse than any Carib student who made it to residency. Any residency will most likely require a higher step 1 score from an IMG than a U.S. grad. Yes there are definitely multiple factors to consider but you specifically cited USMLE performance. Also I would point out that I hardly count someone as a doctor if they fail to obtain residency. Therefore those poor quality doctors that actually make it to residency have usually performed higher than their U.S. counter parts. The stats about fail rate is generally dismissible as these schools clearly take students that have no business being in med school in the first place. The successful ones are usually the last people who feel sorry for those who don't make it, at least from those I have encountered.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

The first part of what you say doesn't make any sense. Think about it... if a Carib student with 195 is finished but a U.S. student is not, one could argue that the bottom feeder US grads are worse than any Carib student who made it to residency. Any residency will most likely require a higher step 1 score from an IMG than a U.S. grad. Yes there are definitely multiple factors to consider but you specifically cited USMLE performance. Also I would point out that I hardly count someone as a doctor if they fail to obtain residency. Therefore those poor quality doctors that actually make it to residency have usually performed higher than their U.S. counter parts. The stats about fail rate is generally dismissible as these schools clearly take students that have no business being in med school in the first place. The successful ones are usually the last people who feel sorry for those who don't make it, at least from those I have encountered.

A Carib grad with a 195 may finish medical school, but they will have a real hard time finding a training program. If they do that, then sure, they end up being equal to the US grad in the end. A Carib grad with a 195 may get 5 interviews out of 100 apps where a USMD grad with a 195 may get 30 out of 50 interviews with the same score. I wouldn't say that a bad Carib grad that barely manages to find a residency spot performed higher than a US grad...

 

[Foot&ankleguy]

Carrib grads matching to a desired residency even with a 250+ score is game of luck. Some schools like AUC actively advertise how 1 student matched to a vascular surgery residency while forgetting (or negating) to mention that 1/3 of their students either dropped because of poor grades or those that DID match have matched into a residency they did not desire. This is all to market their program, had a friend who was told to retake his mcat which was too low for SGUs standards, he told them wasnt interested in retaking and they went on to say then there was nothing could do for him, months later, they called him back to tell him that they would "work" with mcat and would interview him if he was interested.

Why? you ask? because they were probably low on numbers, they needed to meet a quota, as its been said many times, carribean schools care that the money is in their pocket, not that the student matriculates into a desired program or residency. Ive worked with Carribbean grads and they are great physicians (some, not all) . My friend is going to CMU(Carribbean Medical University) in the fall, expecting to become a plastic surgeon (believe me, I have warned him that this will most likely not be the case) he has a 2.4 GPA,(this is with grade forgiveness) and no I am not kidding about this but he recieved an 8 on the MCAT. Does this sound like someone who can make it through med school? No, but they gladly took his $1000 deposit and hes on his way in July. Not saying that SGU is on the same boat, which from what Ive heard from advisors, it's a great school. My other friend got accepted to SGU and is going this fall, he was expelled from his last college for drug posession charge and bad academic standing. He retook most of his premed classes, ended up with a supposed 3.5 GPA and got a 30 on the mcat and said that SGU was the only school who accepted him. What this means? is beyond me. These are just anecdotal things that I have heard from my friends who are in this carribbean situation. I do not mean to offend, derail anyones hopes of going to school or down talk SGU. Just please, if your issue is MCAT, retake it, if its GPA take more classes, make the carribean your final option. Hope this helps.

 

[crotchrocketer]

A Carib grad with a 195 may finish medical school, but they will have a real hard time finding a training program. If they do that, then sure, they end up being equal to the US grad in the end. A Carib grad with a 195 may get 5 interviews out of 100 apps where a USMD grad with a 195 may get 30 out of 50 interviews with the same score. I wouldn't say that a bad Carib grad that barely manages to find a residency spot performed higher than a US grad...

That's fine but it contradicts the point of Caribbean student having 195 = death sentence. <-- a point I would agree with 999/1000 times.

 

[crotchrocketer]

Carrib grads matching to a desired residency even with a 250+ score is game of luck. Some schools like AUC actively advertise how 1 student matched to a vascular surgery residency while forgetting (or negating) to mention that 1/3 of their students either dropped because of poor grades or those that DID match have matched into a residency they did not desire. This is all to market their program, had a friend who was told to retake his mcat which was too low for SGUs standards, he told them wasnt interested in retaking and they went on to say then there was nothing could do for him, months later, they called him back to tell him that they would "work" with mcat and would interview him if he was interested.

Why? you ask? because they were probably low on numbers, they needed to meet a quota, as its been said many times, carribean schools care that the money is in their pocket, not that the student matriculates into a desired program or residency. Ive worked with Carribbean grads and they are great physicians (some, not all) . My friend is going to CMU(Carribbean Medical University) in the fall, expecting to become a plastic surgeon (believe me, I have warned him that this will most likely not be the case) he has a 2.4 GPA,(this is with grade forgiveness) and no I am not kidding about this but he recieved an 8 on the MCAT. Does this sound like someone who can make it through med school? No, but they gladly took his $1000 deposit and hes on his way in July. Not saying that SGU is on the same boat, which from what Ive heard from advisors, it's a great school. My other friend got accepted to SGU and is going this fall, he was expelled from his last college for drug posession charge and bad academic standing. He retook most of his premed classes, ended up with a supposed 3.5 GPA and got a 30 on the mcat and said that SGU was the only school who accepted him. What this means? is beyond me. These are just anecdotal things that I have heard from my friends who are in this carribbean situation. I do not mean to offend, derail anyones hopes of going to school or down talk SGU. Just please, if your issue is MCAT, retake it, if its GPA take more classes, make the carribean your final option. Hope this helps.

I always wondered who would possibly attend some of those super low level schools that have those banner ads lol thanks for sharing that info.

 

[Foot&ankleguy]

I always wondered who would possibly attend some of those super low level schools that have those banner ads lol thanks for sharing that info.

No problem crotchrocker, its no surpise as to why American residency programs dont accept people from these schools, simply look at the type of students they are accepting, bottom of the barrell applicants that literally would need to get a new bachelors degree to repair the damage they did to their original GPA. Then again, some of these schools accept people without bachelors degrees, but because they are coming from other countries besides USA (which is inevitable). By the way there is a carribbean school that claims to have their students do clinical rotations in miami with FIU students, but thats only if you want the premium carribbean package worth an extra $7000 called AUA american university of antigua. This school also does not require MCAT, is it good for Non US FMG's? maybe, but people like my friend (I love the guy but cmon) should never go to med school, for their own financial sake! I really dont mean to offend anyone but it hurts me to think that they are using my friends childhood dream of becoming a physician, to simply get money out of him. Its sad, I feel for my friend. Again, not SGU is like this but there are schools like this out there. Hope this info helps someone out there before making the decision to go to a non mcat carribbean institution.

 

[W19]

No problem crotchrocker, its no surpise as to why American residency programs dont accept people from these schools, simply look at the type of students they are accepting, bottom of the barrell applicants that literally would need to get a new bachelors degree to repair the damage they did to their original GPA. Then again, some of these schools accept people without bachelors degrees, but because they are coming from other countries besides USA (which is inevitable). By the way there is a carribbean school that claims to have their students do clinical rotations in miami with FIU students, but thats only if you want the premium carribbean package worth an extra $7000 called AUA american university of antigua. This school also does not require MCAT, is it good for Non US FMG's? maybe, but people like my friend (I love the guy but cmon) should never go to med school, for their own financial sake! I really dont mean to offend anyone but it hurts me to think that they are using my friends childhood dream of becoming a physician, to simply get money out of him. Its sad, I feel for my friend. Again, not SGU is like this but there are schools like this out there. Hope this info helps someone out there before making the decision to go to a non mcat carribbean institution.

There is a point where one has to give up to a dream--after all, it's a dream. Why don't you talk to your friend? He/she might be able to do PA/DPM/(RN/NP) etc.. because having a 200k+ student loan can be crippling if one does not become a physician... I have a hard time understanding the attitude when people say they can only see themselves doing [insert].

 

[Foot&ankleguy]

There is a point where one has to give up to a dream--after all, it's a dream. Why don't you talk to your friend? He/she might be able to do PA/DPM/(RN/NP) etc.. because having a 200k+ student loan can be crippling if one does not become a physician... I have a hard time understanding the attitude when people say they can only see themselves doing [insert].

I know W19 and believe me I've tried. I told him how big of risk this is for him. During the time of the Mcat, he didn't study and was more concerned about getting girls than his academics or doing well on the Mcat hence the 8 total score. It's pretty much a lost cause at this point. I try to use his story as an example, for those who should not be in this field, those who think they are entitled to something without working hard like the rest of us.

The system is designed in such a way as to not let these students treat living human beings. Every time I tell him, he says "yeah your right" then the next day he resets and reverts back to his initial idea of becoming a plastic surgeon (the best in the east coast, according to him) The Caribbean is bad, to some it may be a viable option (Canadian, African and European grads which receive assistance from their government to return as primary care) the US only limits this to a few programs for a good reason. Yes, there are some success stories out there but they are few and most are by those who have incredible work ethics and drive to achieve top 10% even then luck is involved in the matching process. 10-20 years ago back FMGs from other countries had more leeway into getting a solid residency here. Now, the residencies are scarce even for American graduates, why would they let an FMG from a Caribbean school (doesn't matter where because you're still considered an FMG) get the slot of a hard working American grad who earned his seat in an American school to begin with. Bottom line, Caribbean is bad, there are some schools that have more "standards" like the top 4 but other schools like St Matthews, st James, AUA, Xavier etc sadly have the notorious reputation for being bad because they accept people like my friend from USA. He may be a caring, wonderful and great person but that doesn't substitute poor academia. This is a personal thing, do not take this as the end all be all this is solely based on a case which I have experienced through being with my friend for 2 years. If you want to go to the Caribbean, go ahead. Choose wisely, don't jump into it simply because it's your "dream" like w19 said. You don't have to take my word for it, there are countless of testimonials out there. Hope this was insightful and I apologize if I've disillusioned some or hurt anyone's feelings. Just trying to share my honest opinion. Thanks for reading this guys. For those wishing to enter SGU or any other Caribbean school, best of luck to you and may you be one of those success stories.

 

[W19]

He had 8 in the MCAT! Was that for one section or that was the overall score? If that was his true score, he probably had no business going to med school.

Schools like SGU, ROSS, SABA, and AUC are legit, but people who go these schools have to be ready to kick ass... and crush step1. It is somewhat a gamble.

 

[Foot&ankleguy]

He had 8 in the MCAT! Was that for one section or that was the overall score? If that was his true score, he probably had no business going to med school.

Schools like SGU, ROSS, SABA, and AUC are legit, but people who go these schools have to be ready to kick ass... and crush step1. It is somewhat a gamble.

This was his overall score (BS:3 VR:1 PS: 4) Total: 8, he didnt study because he heard some of his friends didnt study and got over a 30 (which is complete BS lol). For sure, the schools mentioned above are legitimate institutions with close to american medical school standards. AUA will give him a loan after the first semester to cover for books and tuition of which he will have to pay back even if he fails. Have some friends at Ross that are doing great but are busting their asses to get good grades, and I hear they have a great Veteranary program as well.

 

[Medstart108]

I just saw one guy who went to Medical University of Americas and he matched to FM in Canada and another who is now a Assistant Prof of Medicine in Canada, but the vast majority of people on Linkedin were med students so I am just going to wager that most don't make it back.

 

[Foot&ankleguy]

I just saw one guy who went to Medical University of Americas and he matched to FM in Canada and another who is now a Assistant Prof of Medicine in Canada, but the vast majority of people on Linkedin were med students so I am just going to wager that most don't make it back.

Yup, notice that they are going back to canada not United States. Most do not make it back and either find other things to do with their lives (with a $250k debt to clear) or they just keep going back and forth between other carribean schools.

 

[Jagon]

This was his overall score (BS:3 VR:1 PS: 4) Total: 8, he didnt study because he heard some of his friends didnt study and got over a 30 (which is complete BS lol). For sure, the schools mentioned above are legitimate institutions with close to american medical school standards. AUA will give him a loan after the first semester to cover for books and tuition of which he will have to pay back even if he fails. Have some friends at Ross that are doing great but are busting their asses to get good grades, and I hear they have a great Veteranary program as well.

Lol how did he get a 1 in verbal? He must have not answered a single question. He would have scored higher just by guessing.

 

[Foot&ankleguy]

Lol how did he get a 1 in verbal? He must have not answered a single question. He would have scored higher just by guessing.

Dude, I literally have no idea lmao. I tried convincing him to take it again but he wouldnt budge. He was completely sure that he could still get in. Well, hes got acceptances from St James and AUA. Hes dead set on going to the Island, regardless of anyones advice. At this point his family has been brain washed to believe that hes got what it takes, but they dont know the reality of his scores. How do you get an 8 on the MCAT? how is that physically possible? Can someone explain this to me.

 

[dellprecision]

Dude, I literally have no idea lmao. I tried convincing him to take it again but he wouldnt budge. He was completely sure that he could still get in. Well, hes got acceptances from St James and AUA. Hes dead set on going to the Island, regardless of anyones advice. At this point his family has been brain washed to believe that hes got what it takes, but they dont know the reality of his scores. How do you get an 8 on the MCAT? how is that physically possible? Can someone explain this to me.

Your friend had to either have guessed at almost every answer, or made a genuine and deliberate effort to get a significant chunk wrong. His verbal score could be explained by him accidentally skipping the entire section and being unable to return to it.

 

[nazpawz]

As with every aspect of life you always get back what you put in! If you work hard enough and score high enough you will get your choice of residency. But I am not by any mean saying that you should stop trying to get in a US medical school! you have to weigh your pros and cons of studying medicine at a foreign medical school for yourself!
I just started at SGU and so far i love it!! then again it has only been one semester! :\

 

[dellprecision]

As with every aspect of life you always get back what you put in! If you work hard enough and score high enough you will get your choice of residency. But I am not by any mean saying that you should stop trying to get in a US medical school! you have to weigh your pros and cons of studying medicine at a foreign medical school for yourself!
I just started at SGU and so far i love it!! then again it has only been one semester! :\

Only if your choice of residency is a not particularly popular program in a non-competitive specialty.

If you work your butt off and score high enough on the tests, then (with a little bit of luck), you will get a residency in the U.S., but it will almost certainly not be a highly sought out one. Another user on here has written an excellent (and heartbreaking) blog about his experience at one of the big four Caribbean schools (he simply refers to it as the "Harvard of the Caribbean", so it's not hard to guess which one it is) here (https://milliondollarmistake.wordpress.com/) . In his blog, he shows how even though he jumped through hoop after hoop (and overcame administrative difficulties), aced all of his exams (did extraordinarily well on the STEPs, with all his scores being in the 90s' percentile, and even scored in the top 1.7% of the surgery shelf exam), and was able to secure rotations in ortho, and conducted and published research in ortho, he ultimately/currently ended up in a undesired primary care residency.

In other words, this is someone who should have been a killer applicant at his specialty had he graduated from an American school. Because he chose (or as he argues, was duped into) a Caribbean medical school, his dream of becoming an orthopedic surgeon was effectively destroyed.

I'm not saying that SGU is an option that should never even be considered, but the notion that you can still get into any residency as long as you work hard enough at SGU is more or less a fantasy. If you work hard enough at SGU, then you should be able to find a residency at the U.S., but it will almost certainly not be a glamorous one.

 

[Caribgrad]

That comment is a lie. It's not your fault though, you have been spooned propaganda that would make the Nazis envious. It is self serving to hope that if you 'work hard' and 'score high enough' you can 'get your choice of residency'.

Trust me: you will eat your words in a few years.

As with every aspect of life you always get back what you put in! If you work hard enough and score high enough you will get your choice of residency. But I am not by any mean saying that you should stop trying to get in a US medical school! you have to weigh your pros and cons of studying medicine at a foreign medical school for yourself!
I just started at SGU and so far i love it!! then again it has only been one semester! :\

Www.milliondollarmistake.WordPress.com

 

[determined2Bdoc]

To address "equivalent education", the most updated data I could find was 2013, but SGU's mean USMLE was 227 and overall U.S./Canada was 229, with a SD of 21, which puts SGU just about 3.5 percentage points behind U.S. students. That doesn't sound heinous. (Though it's 4:30 AM and I calculated the z-score myself so I might be entirely wrong about this.) In 2013 they also had a slightly higher first-time pass rate than U.S. schools, but you can take or leave that data because you can technically pass with a 195 and that won't get you anywhere.

howyoulov3me, I'd be happy to talk to you more if you want to message me privately. Any discussion of SGU on SDN just turns into people feeling good about themselves by bashing it in every conceivable way. Going to probably any U.S. medical school is less risky than going to the Caribbean, but I had good stats and didn't get in over two cycles, and didn't want to go the D.O. route. People are already poised and ready to call me an idiot for not applying D.O., but I wanted the M.D. degree and I knew I was academically capable, so I decided to do it. People are also so quick to judge the entire student body of a school they have never been to. I'm here, I'm living it. There is the odd blockhead you can get anywhere, but the vast majority are clever and extremely capable. If you want to say that going to SGU is riskier than M.D. or D.O. in the U.S., that's the proven truth and people should know the stats before they make a decision. But when you start calling all SGU students poorly-trained and -educated, it's clear that you've crossed into "blatant lies" territory for the purpose of feeling superior.

Edit: Update two years later because people are still coming across this post: I matched. No regrets.

@Juneilow It made me smile to see that you updated this post 2 years later with your great news! What did you match with and would you recommend SGU? Thanks.