PhD/PsyD Possible new internship imbalance

[PsyDr]

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Did they even have internships back in the 70s when Barlow et al were being trained? That wasn't ubiquitous until the 80s i thought.

First psychologist license in 1945. First internships developed one year later, because we slam the door behind us.


Morrow, W. R. (1946). "The development of psychological internship training." J Consult Psychol 10(4): 165-183.

 

[quickpsych]

This unfortunately has been a long standing issue, although it seemed like in the few years before the pandemic it was easing up a bit. I can't help but assume that a big part of the reversal in trends back to shortages in spots is in part due to cuts for funding across the board thanks to current administration in the federal government. Over a decade ago myself and a number of PsyD and PhD students from programs across the country were part of an APA/APAGS task group/think tank that brainstormed ideas and ways to reduce , what was then, an even worse problem of too many applicants and hardly enough spots which culminated in meeting with representatives in Congress and their staff talking about the impact of an ongoing internship crisis on mental health services, training, and access. At that time the amount of applicants versus available spots was over 1,500 if not more. But looking back vs today, it feels like a different world back then.

And yes shutting down diploma mills was one of the suggestions, although over ideas including proposing moving internship to after graduation (I.e. become more about hours for licensure than part of the degree requirements), increasing funding, educating possible sites on benefits of having interns, etc. To the credit of some reputable programs, they began expanding their own "consortium" arrangements with a combination of school run sites and external sites with a contractual relationship. Some schools had issues regarding having interns "too close" to the school's students (I.e. having internships at on campus counseling centers for the same school which as you can imagine creating ethical and confidentiality concerns) and so some of them worked with other counseling centers, as well as developed outpatient testing/therapy clinics, and strengthening alliances with other sites while also offering 2nd round spots to students not from the school. Fast forward to today, and I'd imagine these arrangements are still around while stand alone sites who might have had funding for interns no longer has funding and/or as we've seen the encroachment of midlevels into all settings perhaps its cheaper to hire them.

 

[cara susanna]

I was also part of a task force on the internship imbalance (was it the same one?) and it was the most useless thing ever.

 

[Sanman]

I was also part of a task force on the internship imbalance (was it the same one?) and it was the most useless thing ever.

Lol, I would love to know the year. APA has had task forces and discussions on this going back to at least the year 2000. So, 26 years of the same back and forth with a few good years. If you don't fix the supply side, there will always be a demand crisis.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I was also part of a task force on the internship imbalance (was it the same one?) and it was the most useless thing ever.

And then they published our ideas and didn't give us any opportunity for authorship. Fun times.

 

[cara susanna]

And then they published our ideas and didn't give us any opportunity for authorship. Fun times.

Oh man, I had forgotten about that one.

I think when I participated it was 2013 or 2014. I had just gone through the internship application/match process and was very, very mad about it (not because I didn't match, but because the process had felt so uneven and terrible, especially given the threat of not matching). I honestly don't think I'll ever quite forget my bitterness. It even affects how I do interviews as an internship faculty member, because I try to be super transparent and laid back, and make the process slightly less terrible for them.

 

[Sanman]

And then they published our ideas and didn't give us any opportunity for authorship. Fun times.

Life lessons. Not the first time this happened in academia and it won't be the last.

 

[quickpsych]

Lol, I would love to know the year. APA has had task forces and discussions on this going back to at least the year 2000. So, 26 years of the same back and forth with a few good years. If you don't fix the supply side, there will always be a demand crisis.

I think one I was part of was around 2014, maybe 2015 don't remember exactly. But was only like a YII or YIII so wasn't anywhere close to applying for internship at the time but I remember some were differing years in their respective cohorts. I forget how many were part of the initial "think tank" but I think about 20 or so of us were, on APA's dime, sent to DC for a few days. As a broke grad student I got to admit that was a nice treat, but I digress .

 

[MCParent]

 

[Sanman]

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[msc545]

I very much believe that what we are seeing here is the inevitable collision between capitalism and good training. Capitalism demands high profits, particularly for people that are owners or high-level managers of any organization.
Good profits demand low expenses. Low expenses for our training programs include:

• Minimally or poorly paid faculty
• Large cohorts
• Relatively lax admission criteria that are mainly dependent on the ability to pay as opposed to the ability to finish the program or to do well in the conventional sense. And finally, what would be at least an externally attractive program in the sense that it is easy to finish and doesn't take too long. Relatively speaking. Most PsyD programs meet this requirement, particularly inasmuch as many of them don't require anything approaching the difficulty of a traditional doctoral dissertation, which is a stumbling block for many prospective applicants to Ph.D. programs. Speaking with students, I have learned that many of them view the dissertation requirement as being the most fear-inducing requirement of a Ph.D. program. This ID program, in eliminating that requirement for the most part, becomes far more attractive. In essence, many PsyD programs meet the requirements of capitalism: high income to the owners and managers and an easy finish or a relatively easy finish for the consumers who, in this case, are the students. What they don't produce, more often, are qualified practitioners.