Possible to get into PM&R residency?

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StrawberryMD

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Hi!
Im from a US medical school and I failed the USMLE Step 1 twice by 1 point both times. The 3rd time I passed with a 192, not an excellent score either. I want to do PM&R but Ive lost hope on getting into any residency after failing twice. My grades are ok (not AOA though).

Any tips and help will be appreciated.

PS. How do I know which PM&R programs are the less competitive?

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Hi!
Im from a US medical school and I failed the USMLE Step 1 twice by 1 point both times. The 3rd time I passed with a 192, not an excellent score neither. I wanted to do PM&R but Ive lost hope on getting into any residency after failing twice. My grades are ok (not AOA though).

Any tips and help will be appreciated.

PS. How do I know which PM&R programs are the less competitive?

Yes but you will really need to impress people on your clinical rotations...
 
Lucky for you, you are applying for the field with the lowest average board scores. Here's my advice:

Do as well as you can on PM&R rotation(s). LOR will be key for you. Show up early every day, ask pertinent questions and read a lot. Stay late. Show that you are doing some reading/research every day.

Take courses, read books, etc, to do as well as possible on Step 2.

Find something about yourself that would make you more appealing to a residency director, and highlight it.

Apply to any residency program that hasn't had a full Match in any one of the past few years.

Get professional training in interviewing skills - it'll make you or break you.

Have several people review your applications before you send them. No typos, misspellings or syntax errors should be found anywhere.

Read the threads here about which programs are top tier. Don't waste your time and money applying to those programs. Apply to every other program. Be ready to travel a lot and with little notice. Take out loans if you have to.

This one is going to insult a lot of people, but it's based on the human nature of the Match process: figure out which residencies have had higher #'s of DO's and international medical grads in their programs. Being a US MD grad, you are statistically more likely to match into a particular program than a DO or IMG. Most programs favor MD over DO, and in turn DO over IMG.

Ok, go ahead and blast me that a DO with good scores will be chosen before an MD with bad, same thing for IMG, but the truth is, program directors and chairs want US-trained MDs in their programs. The dirty little (not so) secret in PM&R is that the IMGs are usually toward the bottom of their rank lists, and are used to fill spots that don't get filled by US grads.

Basically, there are less US grads applying for PM&R spots than there are open PM&R spots. Odds a re in your favor to get in somewhere. It won't be RIC, but it sounds like you'll be happy just to get in anywhere.

Good luck. We're here to help.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Lucky for you, you are applying for the field with the lowest average board scores. Here's my advice:

Do as well as you can on PM&R rotation(s). LOR will be key for you. Show up early every day, ask pertinent questions and read a lot. Stay late. Show that you are doing some reading/research every day.

Take courses, read books, etc, to do as well as possible on Step 2.

Find something about yourself that would make you more appealing to a residency director, and highlight it.

Apply to any residency program that hasn't had a full Match in any one of the past few years.

Get professional training in interviewing skills - it'll make you or break you.

Have several people review your applications before you send them. No typos, misspellings or syntax errors should be found anywhere.

Read the threads here about which programs are top tier. Don't waste your time and money applying to those programs. Apply to every other program. Be ready to travel a lot and with little notice. Take out loans if you have to.

This one is going to insult a lot of people, but it's based on the human nature of the Match process: figure out which residencies have had higher #'s of DO's and international medical grads in their programs. Being a US MD grad, you are statistically more likely to match into a particular program than a DO or IMG. Most programs favor MD over DO, and in turn DO over IMG.

Ok, go ahead and blast me that a DO with good scores will be chosen before an MD with bad, same thing for IMG, but the truth is, program directors and chairs want US-trained MDs in their programs. The dirty little (not so) secret in PM&R is that the IMGs are usually toward the bottom of their rank lists, and are used to fill spots that don't get filled by US grads.

Basically, there are less US grads applying for PM&R spots than there are open PM&R spots. Odds a re in your favor to get in somewhere. It won't be RIC, but it sounds like you'll be happy just to get in anywhere.

Good luck. We're here to help.

As a future DO I'd like to say -- Thank you for telling it how it is. I've been saying this to tons of people. BTW I don't think you offended anybody. :bow:
 
If I can't get a pm&r rotation until my 4th year..before my interview-assuming I could get interviews- would that look really bad?
 
If I can't get a pm&r rotation until my 4th year..before my interview-assuming I could get interviews- would that look really bad?

Nope, not at all. Most of us actually cant get rotations until 4th year, ideally you want them before you go on interviews so, ideally, the attending you rotate with can write you a letter in time for your interviewer(s) to see it. Good luck!
 
Lucky for you, you are applying for the field with the lowest average board scores. Here's my advice:

Do as well as you can on PM&R rotation(s). LOR will be key for you. Show up early every day, ask pertinent questions and read a lot. Stay late. Show that you are doing some reading/research every day.

Take courses, read books, etc, to do as well as possible on Step 2.

Find something about yourself that would make you more appealing to a residency director, and highlight it.

Apply to any residency program that hasn't had a full Match in any one of the past few years.

Get professional training in interviewing skills - it'll make you or break you.

Have several people review your applications before you send them. No typos, misspellings or syntax errors should be found anywhere.

Read the threads here about which programs are top tier. Don't waste your time and money applying to those programs. Apply to every other program. Be ready to travel a lot and with little notice. Take out loans if you have to.

This one is going to insult a lot of people, but it's based on the human nature of the Match process: figure out which residencies have had higher #'s of DO's and international medical grads in their programs. Being a US MD grad, you are statistically more likely to match into a particular program than a DO or IMG. Most programs favor MD over DO, and in turn DO over IMG.

Ok, go ahead and blast me that a DO with good scores will be chosen before an MD with bad, same thing for IMG, but the truth is, program directors and chairs want US-trained MDs in their programs. The dirty little (not so) secret in PM&R is that the IMGs are usually toward the bottom of their rank lists, and are used to fill spots that don't get filled by US grads.

Basically, there are less US grads applying for PM&R spots than there are open PM&R spots. Odds a re in your favor to get in somewhere. It won't be RIC, but it sounds like you'll be happy just to get in anywhere.

Good luck. We're here to help.

i read recently that 40% of pm&r docs are d.o.'s, and the resident percentage is comparable. from this years interview trail, over half of the applicants i have met are d.o.'s. also keep in mind, the mecca of pm&r known as RIC features the great James Sliwa, D.O. as their program director. He's been there for 40 years and has made the program what it is. Dr. Zafonte, D.O. is the Chairman at Spaulding-Harvard. I know that D.O. discrimination exists, but I also think that it is at its very least, if not negligible level when it comes to the field of PM&R. I have met numerous attendings who told me they wish they had trained at osteopathic institutions if they had known they were going into pm&r. just food for thought
 
i read recently that 40% of pm&r docs are d.o.'s, and the resident percentage is comparable. from this years interview trail, over half of the applicants i have met are d.o.'s. also keep in mind, the mecca of pm&r known as RIC features the great James Sliwa, D.O. as their program director. He's been there for 40 years and has made the program what it is. Dr. Zafonte, D.O. is the Chairman at Spaulding-Harvard. I know that D.O. discrimination exists, but I also think that it is at its very least, if not negligible level when it comes to the field of PM&R. I have met numerous attendings who told me they wish they had trained at osteopathic institutions if they had known they were going into pm&r. just food for thought

99/370 matches for 2008 were DO = 26.8%, I believe the highest % yet.
 
99/370 matches for 2008 were DO = 26.8%, I believe the highest % yet.

1/4 is still a staggering number when you consider the ratio of allopathic to osteopathic graduates every year. 16,000 overall residency spots are filled by US MD's, 7000 spots are filled by IMG's. Approximately 3000 DO's graduate every year, and approximately half pursue allopathic residencies. So basically its a 1/10 ratio for MD:DO new residents per year. Im interested to see how the percent of matches for DO in PM&R change in 2009.

(note: by numbers are unverified, i found this article and used the numbers it provided for allopathic graduates in the 08 match - http://chronicle.com/review/brainstorm/greenberg/from-glut-to-shortage-a-turnabout-in-md-forecasts)
 
I've always wondered why so many DO's apply to allopathic residencies. If they believe so strongly in osteopathy, why not do DO residency? The perceived (prejudicial) thought is that they couldn't get into allopathic med school, so they went DO, now want to go allopathic again.

Is there something inherently wrong with DO residency (mainly primary care, if I am correct)? Is it financial - primary care sucks for pay? What do the DO's here think is the reason for this? If all DO grads suddenly decided to only do DO residencies, would there be enough positions?

I understand the inherent attraction to PM&R for a DO, and I think the inclusion benefits the departments and field as a whole. The funny thing for me, is I have seen very few DO's continue to do manipulation when they specialize. Some PM&R's do apparently, but none I have worked with. None in my residency were allowed to, as we did not have a DO attending at the time (but did gain one while I was there, and I believe they've added another).
 
I recently graduated from an Osteopathic med school. I chose an allopathic pm&r residency because there are only 3 osteopathic programs, and 2 of them are dual (AOA/ACGME) accredited. I didn't attend osteopathic school to become a primary care physician; rather I wanted to learn the principles of osteopathy and apply them to whatever specialty I chose. (I actually do use manipulation and did a fellowship in it). There are some excellent Osteopathic residencies available in certain fields, however many programs tend to be located at smaller community hospitals and are light on research and fellowship opportunities. You are correct that most DOs do not use manipulation. It is difficult to learn, requires a lot of practice to be effective, and is not always supported and encouraged in the hospitals. Overall, I feel my osteopathic education has been enriching and will make me the physiatrist I want to be.
 
It's a little more complicated then staying true to one's DO roots and wanting to utilize manipulation.

A few reasons why we apply to AGCME programs:

-lack of geographic diversity outside of primary care
-generally less structured research infrastructure
-certain fields have very few programs (ie PM&R has only 1 strictly DO program)
-less opportunity for fellowships in some fields (ie IM-->Cards/GI)
-generally not based out of large tertiary referral centers causing need for more "out" rotations
-the currently separate match systems don't allow for one to rank some programs in the AOA match and some in the AGCME match during the same year....it's all or nothing in either direction
-many AOA residencies only play lip service to providing education in OMM

Less DO's are going into primary care then they traditionally have for the same reasons as MD's.


I've always wondered why so many DO's apply to allopathic residencies. If they believe so strongly in osteopathy, why not do DO residency? The perceived (prejudicial) thought is that they couldn't get into allopathic med school, so they went DO, now want to go allopathic again.

Is there something inherently wrong with DO residency (mainly primary care, if I am correct)? Is it financial - primary care sucks for pay? What do the DO's here think is the reason for this? If all DO grads suddenly decided to only do DO residencies, would there be enough positions?

I understand the inherent attraction to PM&R for a DO, and I think the inclusion benefits the departments and field as a whole. The funny thing for me, is I have seen very few DO's continue to do manipulation when they specialize. Some PM&R's do apparently, but none I have worked with. None in my residency were allowed to, as we did not have a DO attending at the time (but did gain one while I was there, and I believe they've added another).
 
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I've always wondered why so many DO's apply to allopathic residencies. If they believe so strongly in osteopathy, why not do DO residency? The perceived (prejudicial) thought is that they couldn't get into allopathic med school, so they went DO, now want to go allopathic again.

Is there something inherently wrong with DO residency (mainly primary care, if I am correct)? Is it financial - primary care sucks for pay? What do the DO's here think is the reason for this? If all DO grads suddenly decided to only do DO residencies, would there be enough positions?

I understand the inherent attraction to PM&R for a DO, and I think the inclusion benefits the departments and field as a whole. The funny thing for me, is I have seen very few DO's continue to do manipulation when they specialize. Some PM&R's do apparently, but none I have worked with. None in my residency were allowed to, as we did not have a DO attending at the time (but did gain one while I was there, and I believe they've added another).

There's a paradox about osteopathic GME: When it comes to all the things that DO's emphasize in their 4-year base training--MSK medicine, primary care, biopsychosocial aspects of health and illness--there are few **quality** GME programs to support those interests (not none, but few) and DO's can be very competitive in ACGME-accredited physiatry, psychiatry, IM --> rheum, etc. However, when it comes to very competitive specialties such as rads, derm, ENT, uro, neurosurgery, ortho, etc DO's have better chances and options at DO residencies most which are quite good and share training opportunties with ACGME-affiliated training sites...welcome to the paradox of osteopathy...
 
when DO's apply to an allopathic residency, do they have to take the usmle?
 
when DO's apply to an allopathic residency, do they have to take the usmle?

it depends on the program and specialty.... there are better places to ask this question than in this thread. look in a non-specialty forum.
 
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