Possible to match as a foreign grad?

Discussion in 'Plastic Surgery' started by Btemp687, Jun 1, 2008.

  1. Btemp687

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    Im wondering how, if at all possible to match in plastics being a foreign grad (CARRIBEAN) Im aware that Id have to get high scores on the steps, but definately have to shine and make a name for myself. Would a combination of good scores, character, recommendations, interview be enough? Or would I have a better shot as a DO or a US med grad....
     
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  3. DrDre311

    DrDre311 Makaveli

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    U.S. allo is by far your best bet. Every year about 4 or 5 FMG/IMG types match into PRS. I've never heard of a D.O. in integrated PRS. If you have more questions read the zillions of WAMC threads on this forum.
     
  4. GSresident

    GSresident PGY4 on July 1, 04

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    If you can't get into a US allopathic school don't go to outside the country. If you are set on plastics I wouldn't go to DO school either. Instead I would go to dental school and then match into an oral surgery residency that allows you to get an MD. I think you would have a better shot at plastics doing it that way but I'm not positive. I know several oral surgeons who became plastic surgeons using that route. The other thing you could consider is that you might like oral surgery and getting paid 1500 cash to put an implant in (1/2 hour procedure).

    Best of luck.

    PS - Just a month to attending status.
     
  5. JaggerPlate

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    I'm just a pre med, but I wanted to comment a little bit just from tidbits picked up on the boards. Integrated plastics is (basically) the hardest residency to match. There are a ton of US MD grads wanting to match integrated plastics, so DOs and FMGs aren't going to stand much of a shot. I've heard stories of 1 DO matching MD integrated plastics, but it could just be a rumor. Generally speaking, DOs normally match more efficiently into US MD residences than FMGs, but for something like integrated plastics, neither are going to put up much of a fight. However, one thing to consider is that there are several (3-4 I believe) DO PRS fellowships that can be completed after a general surgery residency, and I'm sure there are FMGs who complete fellowships after general surg residencies. Just my two cents (for what very little it's worth).
     
  6. Hiram Coggin

    Hiram Coggin Junior Member

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    This is no rumor.
     
  7. JaggerPlate

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    Yeah, thinking back in older threads I believe there was usually 1-2 per year and a few years back there was like 3. Could be off though.
     
  8. maxheadroom

    maxheadroom Rhinestone Cowboy
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    I know of one DO in an integrated residency. There are probably more, but saying 1-3 per year is probably a stretch.
     
  9. Hiram Coggin

    Hiram Coggin Junior Member

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    agree w/above.
     
  10. JaggerPlate

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    I'll try to find the thread later tonight. I very easily could be wrong, but I'll check it out anyway.
     
  11. Btemp687

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    Nothing is impossible....depending on how much you want it and to an extent who you know. Connections always helps (which Im tryna make right now) My undergrad gpa isnt so hot, thats why Im going with the international route.
     
  12. beastmaster

    beastmaster Senior Member

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    At which program?
     
  13. DrDre311

    DrDre311 Makaveli

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    If you're serious about becoming a plastic surgeon, I would strongly urge you to reconsider. The fact is (connections aside) that of ~90 integrated spots, 85+ go to U.S. allopathic seniors each year. I think it would be better for you to take a year off to do a masters, some research, or whatever else is necessary to get into a U.S. allopathic school. It doesn't have to be Harvard (I went to a not-so-well regarded southern state school and got in), but any U.S. allo school will give you a better shot at PRS than an international medical school--based strictly on numbers.

    I'm not trying to denigrate the education or ability of IMG/FMG's or D.O.'s, but these numbers have been consistent since the inception of the integrated training model and your best shot at getting into integrated plastics comes as a U.S. allopathic graduate.
     
  14. Btemp687

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    I get what your saying... If a US allo school will accept me with a 2.94 gpa that would be great. I still have 4 more pre-reqs to complete, which im doing now and that should get me to a 3.0. Im doing research now for a clinical trials lab as a clinical research assistant and Im still working at a hospital on the weekend all while taking summer classes. Id definately have to get above a 30 mcat to even consider a US school. Not that plastics is my only consideration, but its something im interested in.

    If I have to do a masters, Id be going for Anesthesiologist Assistant and call it a day lol
     
  15. GregsAnatomy

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    Don't forget that we DO's do have our own plastics fellowships. There are currently 6 programs, and when you consider that there are approximately 100 DO general surgery graduates a year and only a handful of those apply for the plastics fellowships, the competition isn't all that terribly fierce. If your goal is just to become a plastic surgeon (irregardless of prestige), DO is likely a viable option over caribbean MD.
     
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  17. DOCTORSAIB

    DOCTORSAIB Ophtho or bust!

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    DrDre and others are giving you some damn good advice. Stick to U.S. MD if PRS is what you want. Stop this nonsense about I can still land it "if I work hard, connections, blah blah." I got news for you buddy -- while you're studying away in Domina or St. Georges (or whatever island), there's a U.S. MD student nailing Honors in almost every preclinical class in med school, getting elected into junior AOA, gets a 250+ on Step 1, is honoring almost every clerkship (while working on Plastics research) and "making connections" as we speak. And the year you apply for PRS so will he. God save you if he actually goes to a top 10 med school or has a PhD next to this MD.

    The moral of the story is you haven't really proven yourself yet academically. You need to take the MCAT and get at least a 30. Then you need to do a 1 year Masters in a hardcore science, preferably one that is geared towards preparing you for med school. There are many. Look them up on SDN. This will help you to not only get into med school but also in your 1st yr classes as you will have taken the majority of them in your Masters program already. So if you're really serious about this whole med school thing, you still have another 2-3 years before you've proved yourself in the eyes of admissions committees.

    If you want to take a short cut and go Caribbean, then understand PRS is practically out of the question. Let's not kid ourselves here, you managed to get a whopping 2.9 GPA so far nor do you have a MCAT to prove otherwise. You have work to do buddy.

    And what makes you think you're going to be an academic all-star of a sudden? I'm not saying you can't, I just want you to realistically think about these things.

    Am I being too harsh?
     
    #15 DOCTORSAIB, Jun 15, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2008
  18. GSresident

    GSresident PGY4 on July 1, 04

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    You might be able to land a spot as part of an MD-PHD program. Typically it is a lot easier to get a spot as an MD-PHD or at least it was when I was applying to medschools in like 1996.
     
  19. DOCTORSAIB

    DOCTORSAIB Ophtho or bust!

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    These are DEFINITELY not easier to get into -- certainly not in the last 6-8 years.

    The averages stats for combined MD/PhD programs are higher than the regular MD track.
     
  20. berkeleyboy

    berkeleyboy Senior Member

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    I know of two people who matched plastics last year and one person that matched this year that originally started at Caribbean medical schools. All were fortunate enough to transfer to a US medical school during their clinical years and were lucky enough to match plastics.

    They got 6-9 plastic surgery interviews each and all had US medical graduate on their applications.:thumbup:
     
  21. DrDre311

    DrDre311 Makaveli

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    Matching with that few interview offers is lucky in itself no matter where you go to med school.
     
  22. GSresident

    GSresident PGY4 on July 1, 04

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    I know someone who won an $800,000 lottery too. That doesn't mean I am going to play the lottery. As harsh as DrSaib's post was, he makes some good points. Some safer alternatives have been presented in this thread. I wouldn't count on getting a plastics spot from a med school on the beach. I also know someone very personally who matched into an independent program from a Caribbean med school but he was actually from that country. It is incredibly unlikely that an American born person will go to a Caribbean medschool and end up in a plastic surgeon. There are a lot better alternatives available but they would require a little extra work.
     
  23. Miami_med

    Miami_med Moving Far Away
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    I don't normally come through here, but your post caught my eye. Let me give you a piece of advice from someone who is still in medical school.

    #1)There is a reason that getting into US medical school is difficult. I was a superstar in a top 50 undergrad, with a GPA>3.8, valedictorian of my department, high honors, MCAT in the 30s, etc... I came to medical school, where I promptly fell to the middle of my class and got stuck after working 3 times as hard. I have 182 people around me, almost all of which had academic credentials similar to mine. Med school is really hard. A work ethic that earns a 2.9 will not be sufficient to succeed in medical school. Medicine is not about being a genius, it's about being a hard worker, and a 2.9 definitely screams that you have not been working at a sufficient level. I think that there is some excellent advice about completing a master's degree. You need to do well there. Also, if you want to be competitive for a difficult match, you want to develop the work ethic BEFORE you blow it in your MS-1 year and get to explain away those grades on your transcript at interviews. I know that going into my MS-4 year, I seriously regret the modules that I didn't put 100% into, and some early poor decision making on my part probably eliminated some the most competative specialties from the realm of possibility for me.

    #2)Hinging your hopes on becoming a superstar at some offshore school is unrealistic. You have not learned how to be a superstar at US undergrad, and your credentials are definitely not superior to those who are also trying to become superstars at offshore medical school. This is not meant to insult your capacity. It means that whatever work you think is sufficient is simply not. When you get to your surgery rotation at any reputable US medical school, you will probably put in atleast 70 (and sometimes upward of 100) hours a week. This may include call, where you may stay up all night. It was light at my school for students (q6, as we rotated call to the residents q3), but you'll be doing it q3 at many institutions. Even with q6, I worked 80 hours a week. We often started pre-rounding before 5:00 am. Some services would finish rounding after 8:00 pm. As a surgical resident, it can be even more arduous. Be prepared for that type of work. Oh yeah, and you will have to study for a shelf exam that incorporates more material than any of your undergraduate courses at the same time.

    #3)You need to formulate a backup plan. Even if you manage to limp into medical school, many highly qualified candidates do not match PRS by sheer force of numbers. Failing to match plastics will not eliminate the $150K+ of debt you've accumulated, so you'll need to be willing to look for work doing something else.
     
  24. cryforme

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    So I spent the last hour flipping through these brilliant plastics threads. And, as fair warning, I am neither a nice guy nor known for my empathy towards colleagues.

    The controversy is immense....and only going to grow....

    I am not going to revel in my accomplishments, how good my med school was, my boards, the car I drive, blah blah blah, vomit!

    I will however tell you that everything falls into place as it should. Should a FMG from the Carribean get a plastics spot...duh NO! NO! NO! If you can't get a spot at a US medical school (including states like Arkansas and Oklahama as "US" schools):
    a) Don't become a doctor
    b) Get better than a pidley 2.9 GPA in undergrad so temp agencies will hire you
    c) Don't get C's anymore

    Furthermore, what makes a person who had to leave a developed nation to go to a developing nation (yes I am politically correct) for more education think they should match in the most competitive training program anyway? There are applicants in the pool that are not only brilliant, they worked hard, recieved outstanding marks in all courses from preschool through medschool, and did not have to make excuses as to why they failed O-chem the first time around. These people then go on to take their boards, do extremely well, complete research projects and publish, then apply plastics....and guess what, they match! A real shocker huh? (my condolensces to those who speak 8 languages, got 324 on step I and still didn't...s--t sometimes does happen). But, s--t should not ALWAYS happen! , and, if you went to Dominica, St. Georges, or St. Crap's for med school....
    a) Don't apply for plastics ( I hear family med in Waco, Tx has once, just once accepted an FMG from the Galapagos Islands)
    b) In your next life forget making excuses for your failures...just stop failing for gods sake
    c) Own up to the fact that PA school may offer a great alternative.
    d) If you don't know what the Galapagos reference is hinting at...then you shouldn't have failed freshmen bio either.

    I do disclose that I am quite toxic during this proceeding.
     
  25. beastmaster

    beastmaster Senior Member

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    You need a hug.
     
  26. berkeleyboy

    berkeleyboy Senior Member

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    I whole heartedly agree.
     
  27. MacGyver

    MacGyver Banned
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    Best joke I heard all day. :laugh:
     
  28. PAN627

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    I have a 3.99 GPA, Rank 1 in my caribbean school, and won the dean of basic sciences award. I had only a 229/95 on my step 1:(. I have had experience in shadowing, as well as medically assisting OBGYN. I am in LOVE with plastics. My dean told me that if I do well in rotations and step 2 that I have a shot. I was inquiring if doing GS then a plastic fellowship is more realistic since plastics is impossible for US grads. My father is an ortho surgeon and has some connections as well, but I wanted to know just based on stats alone. This is something I really have wanted to do for a while, didn't think I'd ever make the grades to do it ( in terms of step 1, i DIDNT!) but I really don't want to give up on my dream. Any advice?
     
    #26 PAN627, Jul 23, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2008
  29. bipolardoc

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    Curious what med school in the carib you went to. One thing I know is you whine alot with the same post. I think you have a great chance. You have awesome grads, good board scores, and great recc. I assume, plus the most important CONNECTIONS. I will almost be shocked if you dont at least get interviews at some programs. There were many carib grads with way less scores who got into competitive residencies, including a SGU grad who had way less GPA , similar if not less board scores, no father connection, and not only got a residency in Radiation Oncology at Johns Hopkins University, but was later elected chief resident and now teaches at Harvard. Anything and everything is possible, especially with carib schools setting out more graduates, most medical schools are familiar with the education and there are many carib grads in administrative roles compared to how much there were back when carib schools first started out in 1979.
     
  30. Long Dong

    Long Dong My middle name is Duc.

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    My father is a FMG and is a plastics attending at UCI long beach VA.
     
  31. DrDre311

    DrDre311 Makaveli

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    Game has changed a little since your dad went through it.
     
  32. Long Dong

    Long Dong My middle name is Duc.

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    Game recognize game.:D

    Yeah I'm sure it has. I also think my father having been an attending trauma/hand surgeon in the vietnamese army for more then 10 years during the vietnam war helped him land his gsurg and then plastics/hand spot when we came to the U.S. Tell my pops waddup yo the next time you scrub in with him in the LBC.
     

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