Post-Acceptance Doubt?

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theseeker4 said:
Even if there is a very competitive specialty you are 100% sure you will go into, no matter what your rotations are like, you should still take the acceptance you have. You can get into highly-selective residency programs if you have outstanding scores from any medical school. You have an acceptance. Take that and work to make yourself as competitive as possible for the match, just as you would have to do if you got into your dream school. The fact is, if anything, you will be a more impressive candidate from a "lower tier" school since the competition will be lower so you will, if as good as you imply you are, rise that much higher above the rest. You are not barring yourself from any program by matriculating at a "lower-tier" medical school, so don't go chasing ghosts in searching for a "better" school.
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There's a bunch of BS lol.
 
Green Grass said:
Landing an Ortho residency spot is competitive, you're correct. But it doesn't require you to attend a Top 10 medical school to land those positions.

Plus, Peds ortho is a not an extremely competitive fellowship. So if you really want to get particular, you could go to almost any Ortho residency and feel confident that you could get your Peds fellowship.



I'm not bitter at all. Not sure where you got that impression. I just think you should be grateful you were accepted, instead of implying that you think you are too good for that particular school.
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Peds general surg would be a different story.
 
theseeker4 said:
What part?
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you're better off being at the better school in essentially every case. The whole SDN mantra of school reputation not mattering is driven by people who attended low ranking schools.

It's certainly possible to match to any specialty from any school, although it is more difficult from lower ranked schools (clearly seen in the NBME stats) but matching at top programs is significantly more difficult from a lower ranked school.
 
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drizzt3117 said:
you're better off being at the better school in essentially every case. The whole SDN mantra of school reputation not mattering is driven by people who attended low ranking schools.
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Yes, but it is not worth reapplying
 
MT Headed said:
It's usually canadians who need to improve their writing score to meet a canadian minimum. Two years ago a canadian SDNer retook a 40O to a 41P, and he needed the P to apply.

Thank god i'm not canadian.
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Ah, that totally explains it. I'm a little embarrassed that I didn't come up with that explanation myself.
 
Wolfman89 said:
Hey brah. I got a 44 MCAT and a 3.99 GPA, am I screwed? Should I retake or go Caribbean? :laugh:
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Definitely Caribbean, I hear you can start your residency during medical school with that MCAT score in the Caribbean! Ahahahahaha!😀 *Sarcasm.
 
drizzt3117 said:
you're better off being at the better school in essentially every case. The whole SDN mantra of school reputation not mattering is driven by people who attended low ranking schools.

It's certainly possible to match to any specialty from any school, although it is more difficult from lower ranked schools (clearly seen in the NBME stats) but matching at top programs is significantly more difficult from a lower ranked school.
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When applying to residency:

Applicant Grades/Step Scores/LORs/Away Rotations > Applicant School Reputation.

Now, if two applicants have exactly the same grades, Step scores, did the same away rotations, and have strong LORs, and the school has to decide between these two individuals for an interview - "High Tier" will get the interview over "Low Tier".

But trust me, just because you attend a high tier medical school will not give you leverage over the stronger applicant from a lesser known school.

To prove my point - see attached article. I just posted this on the Ortho Forum, but I think it applies here as well.
 

Attachments

drizzt3117 said:
you're better off being at the better school in essentially every case. The whole SDN mantra of school reputation not mattering is driven by people who attended low ranking schools.

It's certainly possible to match to any specialty from any school, although it is more difficult from lower ranked schools (clearly seen in the NBME stats) but matching at top programs is significantly more difficult from a lower ranked school.
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Yeah, re-reading what I wrote it sounds like I think he would be better off at the lower-ranked school than he would at a higher-ranked school. I agree that that is not true, not what I meant to say. My point is he won't be barred from any profession because he is at a lower-tiered school, and taking the acceptance he has is better than re-applying. The comment about "rising further above the rest" was meant to be tongue-in-cheek.
 
This has been thoroughly hashed out in past threads, so I'm not going to belabor the point, but that hasn't been our experience this cycle.

Green Grass said:
When applying to residency:

Applicant Grades/Step Scores/LORs/Away Rotations > Applicant School Reputation.

Now, if two applicants have exactly the same grades, Step scores, did the same away rotations, and have strong LORs, and the school has to decide between these two individuals for an interview - "High Tier" will get the interview over "Low Tier".

But trust me, just because you attend a high tier medical school will not give you leverage over the stronger applicant from a lesser known school.

To prove my point - see attached article. I just posted this on the Ortho Forum, but I think it applies here as well.
Click to expand...
 
You make it sound like it's hardly important at all but in that article, which has data from >100 ortho programs, it is more important than the deans letter, your personal statement, participation in research, and publications. It matters.:idea: Is it the end all and be all? No, but don't delude yourself about the power of a strong reputation. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Did you see what else made the list? Undergrad reputation.😱 (I think I hear heads exploding)😀
When you're trying to separate out the best of the best of the best at superior residency programs, you have to use everything. They get a huge number of applicants per spot. Most have the same general range high scores, class ranks, AOA, etc. You need everything you've got to get the nod to be able to shine at an interview.
Green Grass said:
When applying to residency:

Applicant Grades/Step Scores/LORs/Away Rotations > Applicant School Reputation.

Now, if two applicants have exactly the same grades, Step scores, did the same away rotations, and have strong LORs, and the school has to decide between these two individuals for an interview - "High Tier" will get the interview over "Low Tier".

But trust me, just because you attend a high tier medical school will not give you leverage over the stronger applicant from a lesser known school.

To prove my point - see attached article. I just posted this on the Ortho Forum, but I think it applies here as well.
Click to expand...
 
IlDestriero said:
You make it sound like it's hardly important at all but in that article, which has data from >100 ortho programs, it is more important than the deans letter, your personal statement, participation in research, and publications. It matters.:idea: Is it the end all and be all? No, but don't delude yourself about the power of a strong reputation. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Did you see what else made the list? Undergrad reputation.😱 (I think I hear heads exploding)😀
When you're trying to separate out the best of the best of the best at superior residency programs, you have to use everything. They get a huge number of applicants per spot. Most have the same general range high scores, class ranks, AOA, etc. You need everything you've got to get the nod to be able to shine at an interview.
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As someone who just went through the interview process, I can tell you that only one word on your Dean's Letter matters (it is in the summary at the end), your personal statement is barely looked at, and if your research isn't applicable to the interviewer, they won't discuss it.

I'm not saying medical school reputation doesn't matter, but I think people put WAY too much stock into it.
 
I feel bad for all your Cali peeps. Ridiculous. I wish I was from Ohio or something... or still lived in TX.
 
Green Grass said:
As someone who just went through the interview process, I can tell you that only one word on your Dean's Letter matters (it is in the summary at the end), your personal statement is barely looked at, and if your research isn't applicable to the interviewer, they won't discuss it.

I'm not saying medical school reputation doesn't matter, but I think people put WAY too much stock into it.
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I just went through the interview process as well, and IMO research was very important, equal with LORs as the most important factors once you reached an acceptable stat range. IMO above 250/AOA in almost any specialty the most important factors will be research, LORs (who wrote them, not what's in them, they're all glowing) and school reputation.
 
...So is the general consensus now that med school reputation undeniably matters when applying to residency programs, but it doesn't matter enough to be worth taking a year off to improve my application and re-apply?
 
tsf3396 said:
...So is the general consensus now that med school reputation undeniably matters when applying to residency programs, but it doesn't matter enough to be worth taking a year off to improve my application and re-apply?
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it's a factor.
 
tsf3396 said:
...So is the general consensus now that med school reputation undeniably matters when applying to residency programs, but it doesn't matter enough to be worth taking a year off to improve my application and re-apply?
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong...as far as matching into a given specialty, med school reputation doesn't really matter, but matching into top residency programs WITHIN a given specialty is where med school reputation starts to play a major role.
 
tsf3396 said:
...So is the general consensus now that med school reputation undeniably matters when applying to residency programs, but it doesn't matter enough to be worth taking a year off to improve my application and re-apply?
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I spoke with multiple physicians over the past few months about this and they've all said that the reputation of your med school matters (most of them are either into academics or practice overseas though, so maybe prestige plays a larger factor in these areas?).. wish I had asked them how much it matters, not just if it did.

One of them said: "The name of your med school is going to stay with you for the rest of your life, so go to [the most prestigious school you got into]." I also met a doctor who trained at Harvard and he said that the name recognition itself is worth the tuition. According to him, when he wanted to start his own project in Africa, people there listen much more closely when they hear he's from Harvard. This is all anecdotal of course. It's interesting to hear all of these different opinions.
 
Bartemius said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong...as far as matching into a given specialty, med school reputation doesn't really matter, but matching into top residency programs WITHIN a given specialty is where med school reputation starts to play a major role.
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No. the linked data for ortho (and the comprehensive residency one as well) was from108 programs, not only the top 10 programs. It is a factor. Consider it a tie breaker.
I interview residents for a very competitive fellowship. It all counts. The interview seals the deal. In or out. You better believe that the quality/reputation of your residency matters, as well as our history with previous residents. Right or wrong. There are a few programs that are essentially screened out automatically.
 
IlDestriero said:
There are a few programs that are essentially screened out automatically.
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Probably a very long shot, but would you be able to share which of these programs have a bad reputation?
 
IlDestriero said:
No. the linked data for ortho (and the comprehensive residency one as well) was from108 programs, not only the top 10 programs. It is a factor. Consider it a tie breaker.
I interview residents for a very competitive fellowship. It all counts. The interview seals the deal. In or out. You better believe that the quality/reputation of your residency matters, as well as our history with previous residents. Right or wrong. There are a few programs that are essentially screened out automatically.
Click to expand...

This is exactly right. I think reputation matters when two equally competitive candidates are being considered for an invitation to interview for a residency - and there is only one invitation left - the better school will get it. Once you get to the interview, it's entirely up to you.
 
tsf3396 said:
...So is the general consensus now that med school reputation undeniably matters when applying to residency programs, but it doesn't matter enough to be worth taking a year off to improve my application and re-apply?
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Correct.
 
Bartemius said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong...as far as matching into a given specialty, med school reputation doesn't really matter, but matching into top residency programs WITHIN a given specialty is where med school reputation starts to play a major role.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that, the NBME data shows that going to a top 40 program improves your odds of matching into competitive specialties. It plays a larger role at top programs, though.
 
IlDestriero said:
No. the linked data for ortho (and the comprehensive residency one as well) was from108 programs, not only the top 10 programs. It is a factor. Consider it a tie breaker.
I interview residents for a very competitive fellowship. It all counts. The interview seals the deal. In or out. You better believe that the quality/reputation of your residency matters, as well as our history with previous residents. Right or wrong. There are a few programs that are essentially screened out automatically.
Click to expand...





Green Grass said:
This is exactly right. I think reputation matters when two equally competitive candidates are being considered for an invitation to interview for a residency - and there is only one invitation left - the better school will get it. Once you get to the interview, it's entirely up to you.
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Ok, I gotcha. Thanks for the clarifications. IlDestriero, small question: would you say med school reputation carries over as a factor when applying for fellowships, or does residency reputation completely overshadow med school reputation at that point?
 
Bartemius said:
Ok, I gotcha. Thanks for the clarifications. IlDestriero, small question: would you say med school reputation carries over as a factor when applying for fellowships, or does residency reputation completely overshadow med school reputation at that point?
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Some fellowships consider it, but your residency program and performance in residency is the most impt. For something like peds gen surg, everything matters.
 
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drizzt3117 said:
Some fellowships consider it, but your performance in med sch is the most impt. For something like peds gen surg, everything matters.
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Med school performance matters for fellowships? Not sure where your getting your data, but I've never heard that.

From what I've heard, when applying to fellowship, it is FAR more about your residency's reputation and the connections your faculty have than about your med school performance.
 
Green Grass said:
Med school performance matters for fellowships? Not sure where your getting your data, but I've never heard that.

From what I've heard, when applying to fellowship, it is FAR more about your residency's reputation and the connections your faculty have than about your med school performance.
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Sorry i meant residency. Ie how good your residency program is and how much the People there like you.
 
tsf3396 said:
Hey, I have been accepted to 1 school, and I am on the waitlist for several others. Initially, my goal was just to get accepted ANYWHERE, but now I'm realizing that the opportunities presented at different tier schools are actually quite significant. Can anybody in a similar situation offer any advice? Or can somebody tell me how bad it'll look to turn down an acceptance in order to essentially re-take the MCAT and re-apply?
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I had a similar experience after I interviewed. I was in a state of crisis not knowing what I would do if I didnt get into school. Had an interview with a backup school, but the things I experienced there didnt sit well and I left the interview deciding that if that was the only school I got in to I would turn it down, take grad courses to bolster the resume, and continue to volunteer in order to get where I needed to be for the next cycle.

admission age is rising from what I have experienced and % of non-trads is increasing. taking a year off to be where you want is not only not unusual but also really isnt a big deal in the grander scheme
 
Napaholic said:
Probably a very long shot, but would you be able to share which of these programs have a bad reputation?
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No, but if you apply for an anesthesia residency, send me your rank list and I'll tell you if any of the programs should probably be ranked last.😉. It's not only clinical skills, programs that are known for poor written board pass rates become the fellowship's problem. We've got to get you a job at the end of your fellowship, if you fail your board exam that might be a big problem. Let it be someone else's problem.😉 We require you to send your in service exam scores. If you're not on the right trajectory, you're not getting an interview. That's something you can ask on interview day. The director (probably all the faculty) know the pass rate over the last 5 years.

Bartemius said:
Ok, I gotcha. Thanks for the clarifications. IlDestriero, small question: would you say med school reputation carries over as a factor when applying for fellowships, or does residency reputation completely overshadow med school reputation at that point?
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Yes and yes, mostly.
 
IlDestriero said:
No, but if you apply for an anesthesia residency, send me your rank list and I'll tell you if any of the programs should probably be ranked last.😉. It's not only clinical skills, programs that are known for poor written board pass rates become the fellowship's problem. We've got to get you a job at the end of your fellowship, if you fail your board exam that might be a big problem. Let it be someone else's problem.😉 We require you to send your in service exam scores. If you're not on the right trajectory, you're not getting an interview. That's something you can ask on interview day. The director (probably all the faculty) know the pass rate over the last 5 years.
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Thanks 🙂
 
SpecterGT260 said:
I had a similar experience after I interviewed. I was in a state of crisis not knowing what I would do if I didnt get into school. Had an interview with a backup school, but the things I experienced there didnt sit well and I left the interview deciding that if that was the only school I got in to I would turn it down, take grad courses to bolster the resume, and continue to volunteer in order to get where I needed to be for the next cycle.

admission age is rising from what I have experienced and % of non-trads is increasing. taking a year off to be where you want is not only not unusual but also really isnt a big deal in the grander scheme
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Thank you for sharing this! Do you mind sharing how things played out for you? Did you end up turning it down and re-applying successfully?
 
tsf3396 said:
Thank you for sharing this! Do you mind sharing how things played out for you? Did you end up turning it down and re-applying successfully?
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i got into a school that i preferred more. that said, i am a couple years out of undergrad due to personal choice. don't think you have to get in right now. but if u do.... 👍
 
tsf3396 said:
Hey, I have been accepted to 1 school, and I am on the waitlist for several others. Initially, my goal was just to get accepted ANYWHERE, but now I'm realizing that the opportunities presented at different tier schools are actually quite significant. Can anybody in a similar situation offer any advice? Or can somebody tell me how bad it'll look to turn down an acceptance in order to essentially re-take the MCAT and re-apply?
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😱😱😱😱😱 please do not do it!!!!!
 
it will only look bad to the school you turned down. other schools dont know you did it
 
Green Grass said:
But they see you are a re-applicant, which from what I've heard, is another hurdle to jump.
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to their school? maybe in some schools... however I know that re-applicaiton can have positive effects. it shows you are dedicated and were not discouraged by a single disappointment. this is straight from the mouth of the admissions admin at my school
 
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