Post-bacc needed after an MS?

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Erli

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Hi,

I was a science major in college, took all the pre-med pre-requisites, but have only a 3.40 cumulative GPA. I haven't gone though calculating it but my science GPA is probably around 3.20. I am currently finishing up a MS in biotechnology and have a 3.90 science GPA. I have not taken the MCAT yet (will take in April) but am worried that I may not remember enough basic science to get a >30. If all goes downhill after April/Aug of this year should I go ahead and enroll for a post-bacc program? Does getting good grades and hence a better GPA in post-bacc studies guarentee a seat in an allopathic med school? If I bomb the MCAT this year will doing a post-bacc help me raise that score? Does a high graduate GPA count for anything when applying to med school?

Erli
 
Your undergrad GPAs, as I'm sure you know, are lower than the average for allopathic matriculants. But in comparison to a lot of enrichment-oriented postbac students your undergrad GPAs really aren't that bad.

Your excellent performance in a hard science masters will at least catch the attention of many medical schools. There are postbac students on this forum who've earned medical school acceptances to excellent medical schools with sub-3.0 undergrad GPAs, but solid graduate GPAs.

Regarding the MCAT, do not take it if you aren't getting within a few points of a 30 by the time the test rolls around in April. Do not allow bombing the MCAT to even be a possibility. It's better to lose the MCAT registration fee than to have an unspectacular MCAT on your record (any many schools will look at MCATs of the past three years). If after months of studying it still looks like you've forgotten too much of the material, then by all means go for a postbac, take an early-start MCAT prep course (the ones that start around November, 6 months before the April test), or study the MCAT religiously on your own (for a year if necessary) while doing something else (like working in biotech/doing research, gaining clinical experience, etc.).

The problem is that you've already taken all the prereqs and there are very few programs that help you study for the MCAT if you've already completed the prereqs. However, if you're a good self-studier and you think you can do it on your own given enough time, then don't do these programs--you'll save a lot of money and you've already proven you can do well in a hard science masters. But if you want (or need) a postbac program that will prep you for the MCAT and allow for a little bit of help in the gpa department, I'd do the Drexel MSP.

Drexel's MSP (Medical Science Preparatory) program incorporates review courses of all the premed courses plus some other science courses (like pharm/physio). It's a mixed bag of undergrad and grad courses if I remember correctly. My understanding is that the students of the program take mock MCATs pretty much year round and are required to take the MCAT the April while they're in the program. And if I remember correctly, there's heavy usage of the Examkrackers books and CDs (but don't quote me on that). It's a one-year certificate program, but you can stay for an extra year and do the IMS (Interdepartmental Medical Sciences) program, which includes Drexel medical school courses, to earn an Master of Biological Sciences (MBS) degree. The Drexel IMS has been discussed here recently and you may want to see what you're getting yourself into if you decide to stay for that IMS year.

Hampton University in Virginia has a program that is similar to Drexel's MSP, but its objective is to increase minorities in medicine (I'm guessing URM). It's two years--the first year consists of a review of the premedical courses and intensive MCAT prep, the second year curriculum consists of graduate biology courses designed by faculty members of the Morehouse and Meharry medical schools that culminates in a comprehensive test designed to look like the med school boards. The program awards the MS in Medical Science degree.

There's also some two-year masters programs that provide intensive MCAT prep courses in the summer at no extra cost as part of the curriculum. I think this is silly though because you'll be taking the August MCAT which could put you at a disadvantage (and when your undergrad record isn't all that wonderful, the last thing you need is another disadvantage).

There are no guarantees into US allopathic medical schools with postbac studies (there are very few exceptions such as some minority/disadvantaged programs). Doing well in a postbac will increase the probability of getting into a US allopathic medical school, but there are no formal guarantees. However, there are some very strong informal linkages through pre-professional masters programs (Georgetown, Boston U, UMDNJ-Newark and especially Rosalind Franklin). But personally, I think it would be wise to score well on the MCAT before doing one of these programs (and besides, you already have a masters 😀 ).

Phil
 
i'm in a similar situation - my undergrad double major anth/chem was a 3.2, but then my masters in international health was a 3.8. (not as much hard science as you though). i'm planning to take the april mcat and apply to both post-bacc and med school (allopathic) for 2006. may the chips (or letters i suppose) fall wherever they may. :luck:
 
medanthgirl said:
i'm in a similar situation - my undergrad double major anth/chem was a 3.2, but then my masters in international health was a 3.8. (not as much hard science as you though). i'm planning to take the april mcat and apply to both post-bacc and med school (allopathic) for 2006. may the chips (or letters i suppose) fall wherever they may. :luck:

One thing to know is that your graduate GPA and your undergrad GPA aren't combined when calculating your overall GPA. Post bacc classes ARE combined with the undergrad GPA, which is the one they focus on the most. Although doing very well in a graduate program can only help.
 
I don't see why a post-bacc after an MS would hurt. I did an MPH program last year. However, I know that adcoms are also looking that you can excel at hardcore science courses so I decided to do a post-bacc to show a further upward trend and that I can handle a more strenous courseload. So far I have been accepted to 1 school and have upcoming interviews at 2 more. I do suggest that if your MS is in a science then a post-bacc is not needed. Also do well on your MCATs, thats always a good equalizer in the process. Just my 2 cents.
 
macaddict78 said:
I don't see why a post-bacc after an MS would hurt. I did an MPH program last year. However, I know that adcoms are also looking that you can excel at hardcore science courses so I decided to do a post-bacc to show a further upward trend and that I can handle a more strenous courseload. So far I have been accepted to 1 school and have upcoming interviews at 2 more. I do suggest that if your MS is in a science then a post-bacc is not needed. Also do well on your MCATs, thats always a good equalizer in the process. Just my 2 cents.

I also am entering a post bacc program with similar undergrad numbers to the OP, however I did not take all my pre reqs as an undergrad. I am finishing my masters in biomedical science in the spring and starting my post bacc in the fall. My questing is, what is considered "upper level science classes"?? I've taken immuno,virology,disease mechanisms (pathophys),oncology,molecular cell bio,biostats,pharmacology...etc. are those comperable?
 
Sundarban1 said:
I also am entering a post bacc program with similar undergrad numbers to the OP, however I did not take all my pre reqs as an undergrad. I am finishing my masters in biomedical science in the spring and starting my post bacc in the fall. My questing is, what is considered "upper level science classes"?? I've taken immuno,virology,disease mechanisms (pathophys),oncology,molecular cell bio,biostats,pharmacology...etc. are those comperable?

i would say so...that would def. fit the bill
 
medanthgirl said:
i would say so...that would def. fit the bill
My question is, if you do a post bac after getting a masters degree in one of the sciences, wont it be a step down? And wont this mean that you basically wated the years it took to do the MS since you could have used that time to get the post bac done. I feel like this question would come up in an interview cos that fact that you do the post bac means you used it to boost ur chances of getting accepted. So the question is, why did u not do it to start with. Why go do something a step above post bac and then come back to post bac. I'm in a similar situation (M.S) and this is the problem that i'm having as i consider ways to make myself a better applicant for next year. I'm scared that it will make me look like i had no interest in my maters program and that everything i've been doing has been solely geared to getting into med school as opposed to actually learning stuff i'm interested in and enjoy. Any comments?
 
I've known people who have gotten an MS, then gotten a PhD/MD/etc. in something completely different. It happens, and people understand this. Just say why you did a master's in the first place (wanted to explore a topic more in-depth before appling for a PhD, needed the MS for a specific job, etc.), and how/why/when/where your interests changed to medicine. Now, if your MS is in, say, cell bio, and then you go and take an undergraduate cell bio class in a post-bacc, that yeah, that would look pretty foolish. But if you've never taken the class before coming to post-bacc, then there shouldn't be a problem. You haven't wasted the MS since you still have that in-depth knowledge.
 
I am in a similar situation. I am finishing a MS in biology. I have a 3.1 undergrad GPA and a 3.9 grad GPA. I have a few publications, worked in a hospital in the ER and in surgery, volunteered, undergrad and grad research, and leadership expereince.
At this point I do not see the point in doing a post-bacc certificate program. I have taken all of courses pretty much and it would be rediculous to retake the undergrad courses I made a C in such as organic chem. considering I have taken a ton of biochem and others and made A's. I have taken the MCAT twice and I have studied for it a third time but did not sit for the exam because I did not see myself scoring miles above my 9s and 8s to risk possibly dropping in a section.
So what is the best option? I am 25. I have spun my wheels long enough and I am ready to move on toward my goal. I have been accepted to an osteopathic program and am considering going even though my first choice would be an allopathic.
I do not see what i can add to my extracurriculars (i have no extra time), and it is hard to buff the turd that is my undergraduate trascript. Is there anything I can do that I have not done to make myself more competitive?
 
henryjekyl said:
I am in a similar situation. I am finishing a MS in biology. I have a 3.1 undergrad GPA and a 3.9 grad GPA. I have a few publications, worked in a hospital in the ER and in surgery, volunteered, undergrad and grad research, and leadership expereince.
At this point I do not see the point in doing a post-bacc certificate program. I have taken all of courses pretty much and it would be rediculous to retake the undergrad courses I made a C in such as organic chem. considering I have taken a ton of biochem and others and made A's. I have taken the MCAT twice and I have studied for it a third time but did not sit for the exam because I did not see myself scoring miles above my 9s and 8s to risk possibly dropping in a section.
So what is the best option? I am 25. I have spun my wheels long enough and I am ready to move on toward my goal. I have been accepted to an osteopathic program and am considering going even though my first choice would be an allopathic.
I do not see what i can add to my extracurriculars (i have no extra time), and it is hard to buff the turd that is my undergraduate trascript. Is there anything I can do that I have not done to make myself more competitive?

I think you've done pretty much all you can except to get a stellar mcat. The only options you have are to get a better mcat and/or do a post bacc, neither of which are guaranteed to help you (and will set you back at least another app cycle). It sounds as if you're ready to go med school, so why not just go for the DO?
 
Erli said:
Hi,

I was a science major in college, took all the pre-med pre-requisites, but have only a 3.40 cumulative GPA. I haven't gone though calculating it but my science GPA is probably around 3.20. I am currently finishing up a MS in biotechnology and have a 3.90 science GPA. I have not taken the MCAT yet (will take in April) but am worried that I may not remember enough basic science to get a >30. If all goes downhill after April/Aug of this year should I go ahead and enroll for a post-bacc program? Does getting good grades and hence a better GPA in post-bacc studies guarentee a seat in an allopathic med school? If I bomb the MCAT this year will doing a post-bacc help me raise that score? Does a high graduate GPA count for anything when applying to med school?

Erli

I was in your situation a while ago, except your grades are a bit better than mine, and I have a lot of healthcare experience in addition to clinical and lab research. If you can kick out a 32+ mcat, you should be good to go for a lot of allopathic schools. Obviously, a 35+ would be better, but it's not realistic for everyone to anticipate a score like that. I agree with others that you should not consider taking the mcat until you're in that 30 range in your practice tests, because that could damage your chances with a slightly below undergrad gpa. Regarding a better post bacc gpa--we have to remember there are no guarantees in the med school app process, we can only increase our chances and hope for the best.
 
henryjekyl said:
I am in a similar situation. I am finishing a MS in biology. I have a 3.1 undergrad GPA and a 3.9 grad GPA. I have a few publications, worked in a hospital in the ER and in surgery, volunteered, undergrad and grad research, and leadership expereince.
At this point I do not see the point in doing a post-bacc certificate program. I have taken all of courses pretty much and it would be rediculous to retake the undergrad courses I made a C in such as organic chem. considering I have taken a ton of biochem and others and made A's. I have taken the MCAT twice and I have studied for it a third time but did not sit for the exam because I did not see myself scoring miles above my 9s and 8s to risk possibly dropping in a section.
So what is the best option? I am 25. I have spun my wheels long enough and I am ready to move on toward my goal. I have been accepted to an osteopathic program and am considering going even though my first choice would be an allopathic.
I do not see what i can add to my extracurriculars (i have no extra time), and it is hard to buff the turd that is my undergraduate trascript. Is there anything I can do that I have not done to make myself more competitive?

From what I've read about others in our position (similar UG gpa, MS, etc.) is that the undergrad GPA is too low to be competative for MD. Unfortunately the only way to bring that up is do a post bacc, as all A's in Masters program may show ability, but does not factor into your UG GPA. So, in the fall that is what I plan on doing. I was not pre-med as an undergrad, but I took bio and chem and although I got B's in both I plan on taking them over again to get my GPA up. With a C in biochem, I wonder why you would think its rediculous to try again, especially if you dont want to take the MCAT again. Something has to improve for you to be competative, either your GPA or MCAT and since you seem unwilling to do either, I too wonder what is left for you to do 😕
 
Mr hawkings said:
My question is, if you do a post bac after getting a masters degree in one of the sciences, wont it be a step down?

A step down from what, I don't understand this comment?

And wont this mean that you basically wated the years it took to do the MS since you could have used that time to get the post bac done. I feel like this question would come up in an interview cos that fact that you do the post bac means you used it to boost ur chances of getting accepted. So the question is, why did u not do it to start with. Why go do something a step above post bac and then come back to post bac. I'm in a similar situation (M.S) and this is the problem that i'm having as i consider ways to make myself a better applicant for next year. I'm scared that it will make me look like i had no interest in my maters program and that everything i've been doing has been solely geared to getting into med school as opposed to actually learning stuff i'm interested in and enjoy. Any comments?

In my case I did my masters degree to prove to myself that medicine was the right path for me by taking advanced courses, it also complemented my job and understanding of medicine. Now I'm certain I can do well in my pre-reqs. So no, I don't think its a disadvantage if you look as your expereince as a stepping stone. Maybe you were not sure you wanted to become a physician when you entered your masters program? I'm also confused by your statement that a masters program is a step above a post-bacc. Please explain..
 
Sundarban1 said:
From what I've read about others in our position (similar UG gpa, MS, etc.) is that the undergrad GPA is too low to be competative for MD. Unfortunately the only way to bring that up is do a post bacc, as all A's in Masters program may show ability, but does not factor into your UG GPA. So, in the fall that is what I plan on doing. I was not pre-med as an undergrad, but I took bio and chem and although I got B's in both I plan on taking them over again to get my GPA up. With a C in biochem, I wonder why you would think its rediculous to try again, especially if you dont want to take the MCAT again. Something has to improve for you to be competative, either your GPA or MCAT and since you seem unwilling to do either, I too wonder what is left for you to do 😕

I am not necessarily unwilling. There is an element of putting the time and money toward something that will not necessarily move me foward or move me to a better situation. Besides, taking more undergrad classes to factor more A's into my undergraduate coursework (a sea of credits at this point) is like adding a cup of water to the ocean - It makes no significant difference in points.

I was unaware that a post-bacc factored into your undergrad GPA, are you sure? My brother is in a post-bacc at VCU and has not indicated that this is the case.

BTW- its C's in organic as a slacker sophomore, A's in all higher level bios and chems as a dedicated, motivated, and goal oriented upperclassman and grad student.
 
Mr hawkings said:
My question is, if you do a post bac after getting a masters degree in one of the sciences, wont it be a step down? And wont this mean that you basically wated the years it took to do the MS since you could have used that time to get the post bac done. I feel like this question would come up in an interview cos that fact that you do the post bac means you used it to boost ur chances of getting accepted. So the question is, why did u not do it to start with. Why go do something a step above post bac and then come back to post bac. I'm in a similar situation (M.S) and this is the problem that i'm having as i consider ways to make myself a better applicant for next year. I'm scared that it will make me look like i had no interest in my maters program and that everything i've been doing has been solely geared to getting into med school as opposed to actually learning stuff i'm interested in and enjoy. Any comments?
The postbac programs I mentioned were specifically MCAT-prep focused postbaccalaureate programs. If the OP feels rusty on the MCAT, these programs OR self-study and/or intensive MCAT prep course is the way to go. In this respect, these postbac programs are not necessarily a step down if the OP went into a masters and then decided to brush up on premedical sciences to pursue medicine. I will concede that it may appear strange on paper, so self-study and/or an intensive MCAT prep course would probably be the better option if the OP can learn equally well that way. And I will stand by my point that the OP should not even take the MCAT until consistent scoring around a 30 (or better) is reached on practice tests (especially for allo).

Mr. Hawkings--why are you considering a postbac? I'm assuming your postbac was in a hard science. If that's the case, then a postbac would probably be unnecessary unless, like the OP, you need to brush up on MCAT material. And again, brushing up on the MCAT can be done w/o the postbac through intensive self-study and/or an MCAT prep course.
Sundarban1 said:
I also am entering a post bacc program with similar undergrad numbers to the OP, however I did not take all my pre reqs as an undergrad. I am finishing my masters in biomedical science in the spring and starting my post bacc in the fall. My questing is, what is considered "upper level science classes"?? I've taken immuno,virology,disease mechanisms (pathophys),oncology,molecular cell bio,biostats,pharmacology...etc. are those comperable?
If you've already taken immuno, virology, pathophys, etc., those are generally the types of courses that are included in catalogs of upper level science classes. You could also take courses like anatomy, physiology, histology, molecular genetics, etc. But I think that would be pointless if you did well with these courses in your masters program. I'd just do a postbac that allows you to finish the prereqs, rock the MCAT, and apply.
henryjekyl said:
I am in a similar situation. I am finishing a MS in biology. I have a 3.1 undergrad GPA and a 3.9 grad GPA. I have a few publications, worked in a hospital in the ER and in surgery, volunteered, undergrad and grad research, and leadership expereince.
At this point I do not see the point in doing a post-bacc certificate program. I have taken all of courses pretty much and it would be rediculous to retake the undergrad courses I made a C in such as organic chem. considering I have taken a ton of biochem and others and made A's. I have taken the MCAT twice and I have studied for it a third time but did not sit for the exam because I did not see myself scoring miles above my 9s and 8s to risk possibly dropping in a section.
So what is the best option? I am 25. I have spun my wheels long enough and I am ready to move on toward my goal. I have been accepted to an osteopathic program and am considering going even though my first choice would be an allopathic.
I do not see what i can add to my extracurriculars (i have no extra time), and it is hard to buff the turd that is my undergraduate trascript. Is there anything I can do that I have not done to make myself more competitive?
I'd say take the osteopathic acceptance (unless you really feel that you have to go allo) or take the MCAT and score double-digits on all sections. This will mean enrolling in an intensive MCAT prep postbac like Drexel MSP (yes, I'll admit that retaking all your prereq would suck) OR self-study and/or an MCAT prep course should do the trick. The
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danger
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is that if you turn down your osteopathic acceptance now and then retake the MCAT and score lower, you're going to have a tough time w/ the reapplication cycle. If you're really set on the MD you could go to osteopathic school for 2 years and attempt to transfer w/ advanced standing into Ross for your clinical years. However, I think that is both ethically reprehensible and it would probably put you at a disadvantage for the match. But if it's the MD you want, it will provide you with that option. Everything else in your profile sounds good, assuming your grad gpa is in a hard science. I really think the MCAT should be your focus if you are set on going to a US allopathic school. Well, there's one other option. You could do Rosalind Franklin's MS in Applied Physiology. The cost of the program is a whopping $52k with all costs considered (and if matriculate there you're looking at another $200+ k), it must be finished in one year, it's a whopping 48 credit hours w/ mostly med school classes, and it essentially requires that you beat the med students' mean on exams. This program has a very strong informal linkage and unlike BU, G-town, and Drexel, the MCAT isn't as significant with the informal linkage. But if you don't do well, you can forget about an allopathic med school in the US.
sidewalkman said:
I've known people who have gotten an MS, then gotten a PhD/MD/etc. in something completely different. It happens, and people understand this. Just say why you did a master's in the first place (wanted to explore a topic more in-depth before appling for a PhD, needed the MS for a specific job, etc.), and how/why/when/where your interests changed to medicine. Now, if your MS is in, say, cell bio, and then you go and take an undergraduate cell bio class in a post-bacc, that yeah, that would look pretty foolish. But if you've never taken the class before coming to post-bacc, then there shouldn't be a problem. You haven't wasted the MS since you still have that in-depth knowledge.
Agreed
 
henryjekyl said:
I was unaware that a post-bacc factored into your undergrad GPA, are you sure? My brother is in a post-bacc at VCU and has not indicated that this is the case.
VCU's postbac premedical certificate is a graduate-level formal program so it goes on your graduate GPA. If you do an *undergrad* postbac, it goes on your undergrad gpa.
 
Sundarban1 said:
From what I've read about others in our position (similar UG gpa, MS, etc.) is that the undergrad GPA is too low to be competative for MD. Unfortunately the only way to bring that up is do a post bacc, as all A's in Masters program may show ability, but does not factor into your UG GPA.
You are correct in saying that you can only raise the undergrad gpa with an *undergrad* postbac. However, 3.1 is not too low to be competitive for US allopathic schools if you rock a special masters (or certificate), have good ECs, and do very well on the MCAT. There's quite a few on the postbac forum with 3.1 or lower GPAs that have been accepted to medical schools such as Case, BU, Drexel, and Wisconsin just to name a few. There comes a point that it's ridiculous to try to raise your undergrad gpa. Let's say you have a 3.1 with 120 credit hours. It's going to take you years to get it up to that competitive matriculant range (i.e. 3.6+). I think once you've reached a 3.0 cume and science, it's practically useless to continue to do undergrad postbac studies w/ the intent of raising the GPA.
 
henryjekyl said:
There is an element of putting the time and money toward something that will not necessarily move me foward or move me to a better situation. Besides, taking more undergrad classes to factor more A's into my undergraduate coursework (a sea of credits at this point) is like adding a cup of water to the ocean - It makes no significant difference in points.

That is why one goes into a post-bacc--to raise their science GPA by either retaking courses or taking upper-level science courses. Your science GPA is only a portion of your overall and adding 16 credits and 74 points (assuming all A's) can bring your GPA up significantly, especially if you add upper level courses.

I was unaware that a post-bacc factored into your undergrad GPA, are you sure? My brother is in a post-bacc at VCU and has not indicated that this is the case.

Of course it factors into your GPA, thats why many people with GPA's <3.5 choose that option. Check out the post bacc. forum, seems like you have a but more research to do!

BTW- its C's in organic as a slacker sophomore, A's in all higher level bios and chems as a dedicated, motivated, and goal oriented upperclassman and grad student.

Congrats, however as I stated before, masters courses do not factor into your undergrad GPA. Had you taken those same courses in a post bacc. (either on your own at a local college/university or in an official program) they would have factored in with your undergrad GPA and this would be a non-issue.

Good luck!
:luck:
 
Phil Anthropist said:
You are correct in saying that you can only raise the undergrad gpa with an *undergrad* postbac. However, 3.1 is not too low to be competitive for US allopathic schools if you rock a special masters (or certificate), have good ECs, and do very well on the MCAT. There's quite a few on the postbac forum with 3.1 or lower GPAs that have been accepted to medical schools such as Case, BU, Drexel, and Wisconsin just to name a few. There comes a point that it's ridiculous to try to raise your undergrad gpa. Let's say you have a 3.1 with 120 credit hours. It's going to take you years to get it up to that competitive matriculant range (i.e. 3.6+). I think once you've reached a 3.0 cume and science, it's practically useless to continue to do undergrad postbac studies w/ the intent of raising the GPA.

I think you only need to get your science GPA into the 3.4 range if you want to be competative for state schools, etc...I disagree with the statement that anyone with over 3.0 should not attempt a post bacc, for those students represent a majority of those who enter post bacc programs (3.0-3.5) in the first place. This person already has a master's degree, why would they do a SMP when he/she could just take orgo over, with a few other advanced classes in the same amount of time?
😕
 
Sundarban1 said:
I think you only need to get your science GPA into the 3.4 range if you want to be competative for state schools, etc...I disagree with the statement that anyone with over 3.0 should not attempt a post bacc, for those students represent a majority of those who enter post bacc programs (3.0-3.5) in the first place. This person already has a master's degree, why would they do a SMP when he/she could just take orgo over, with a few other advanced classes in the same amount of time?
😕
I'm not implying the OP should do an SMP. I'm implying the OP should do MCAT study through either an MCAT-focused postbac, an MCAT prep course, or self-study. Self-study and the prep course would be best. The OP has done well with (I'm assuming) a full-time courseload in a hard masters at Hopkins. Taking some undergrad intro classes in immuno, histo, physio, etc. would be a step down.

Also, the OP is an Indiana native. Indiana University has their own special pre-professional masters biology program for students (usually from Indiana) who are trying to get into IU med. The implication is that if the undergrad record was not representative of the student's abilities, they can prove it in a postbac. I'm not implying the OP should do this program (it would be pointless) but I am implying that the OP's state-school DOES take into account graduate work and even recommends it for students with less than satisfactory undergrad performances. Indiana even used to have a special masters in Cellular and Integrative Physiology for that purpose (it's now extinct).

In you're referring to henryjekyl, it would make sense to just increase the MCAT--either by an MCAT-prep focused postbac or self-study and intensive MCAT prep course. He doesn't have to take o-chem over, but for a US allo acceptance he really needs to increase his MCAT or do a "backdoor" program like RFU that I mentioned above.

Okay, I'll take back what I said somewhat. Postbacs will always be helpful. But if you have a 3.0 cume and 3.0 science you are immediately confronted with several problems.

In the case of the cumulative GPA your GPA will go up in very small increments even with a full time course load. As you accumulate a lot of credit hours, it becomes increasingly difficult to raise your GPA. You would initially see bigger progress when you have fewer credit hours and you get As. But as you take more, you would only go up about 0.1 to 0.15 with a full-time course load from year to year. At a 3.0/3.1, gpa enrichment is practically futile if you're trying to raise it to the 3.5-3.6 area (try crunching the numbers on Excel to see how high you can get it up). I would *guess* (without having crunched the numbers) that going from a 3.1 to 3.6 after already completing a Bachelor's will probably take a good 3 years of full-time study (probably more). However, if your state school has ~3.5-3.6 as a competitive range and you're at a 3.3-3.4, gpa enhancement to just get that extra boost may be a worthy pursuit.

Also, the problem for science majors is that there aren't that many enrichment *undergrad* postbac programs once you've hit a certain level. If you've taken anatomy, physiology, microbiology, immunology, endocrinology, genetics, etc., it's hard to find an undergrad postbac program that will give you enough *new* science courses. The alternative would be to take physics, chemistry, math, astronomy, etc. but if you're taking these classes for the sole purpose of raising the bcpm and taking science coursework I think that will be pretty evident to the admissions committees. And if you have a Master's in Biomedical Sciences it's going to be odd if you're taking the same courses at a less demanding level. In your case, it makes sense to take the prereqs as a postbac student. However, I do not see the point in taking upper-division science courses when you've already had classes (and I'm assuming you did well) in immuno, virology, pathophys, oncology, molecular cell bio, biostats, and pharmacology. If you did well in your Master's in Biomedical Sciences and your undergrad cume/bcpm are greater than 3.0, there's not much of a point in taking an undergrad postbac with the exception of (1) taking the prereqs and (2) meeting the minimum GPA qualifications to pass specific schools that screen, which usually do not even disclose their numerical evaluations. And contrary to popular belief, an excellent graduate-level performance can make up for (but not increase) a less than wonderful undergrad performance.

Just my opinion.
 
I think there is too much discussion of whether or not Post-bacc credit goes toward your undergrad GPA. It really doesn't matter what it is applied to. Adcoms are looking for upward trends, the greater the increase the greater the more likely adcoms will take a closer look at you. Some schools may have a strict cut-off when it comes to undergrad GPA, but in my experience that is only a very few. Most will take into account your Grad school GPA and your Post-bacc GPA seperately from your undergrad.
 
whew ~ thanks for those last couple posts, very very helpful... i was getting confused there for a bit. i was a double major chem/anth but still my science gpa not so hot (3.0). i've retaken a few of the undergrad science classes i didn't do so good in (i retook physics and went from a D five years ago to an A this year!) i've been doing that while i work, and thought that i would try applying to both post-bacc, even though i have an MA in public health (not MPH though 🙁 ) and med school. i figured most likely i should do a post bacc program, like drexel or bu or rosalind franklin to try to demonstrate that i can do upper level sciences, and just make peace with my okay but not stellar undergrad gpa. it sounds like after those last couple posts, that might be my most practical and best bet.
 
Wow! Thank you for all the information everyone! After reading all your posts I think that right now a lot is depending on how well I do on the MCATs this year. I have four more courses to go to finish my MS in biotechnology and I'll tailor the classes to be more med-oriented.

BTW, if any one is interested Johns Hopkins has a post-bacc program designed for non-science majors or non-premed folks.

http://www.jhu.edu/postbac/

According to their website:
"Designed to meet the needs of diverse and talented individuals, this program is right for you if you have excellent academic records in undergraduate and/or graduate school, have never applied to medical school, and have the ultimate goal of entering the medical profession."

This program has strong linkage programs with University of Rochester, George Washington University, and Robert Wood Johnson Medical School.

However, if you have already taken your prerequisites or have taken most of them you can't enroll in the program to enhance your GPA. I just found this out last Friday 🙁 Makes me wish I had majored in English as an undergrad 🙂 There is more info on the website.
 
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