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I need help in deciding whether I should take post bacc classes or get a Masters? Can someone list pros and cons for me?? Thank You
Post Bacc or Masters?
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stookie said:
Postbacc grades get counted into your undergraduate GPA while graduate classes don't (They get a separate GPA). I'm doing a master's program right now, but I really wish I did postbacc so the grades would have counted. Also, once you get accepted, you can stop taking postbacc classes. With a master's, if you want to stop after receivign an acceptance, it is more difficult and more trouble to do so.
Pros of getting a master's? having the extra degree...from what i've seen, it is not much of an advantage once you are a doctor
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Tallulah said:
Actually you are right and wrong. First of all, if you take undergrad classes while getting a Master's degree, they do count toward your undergrad GPA. It is a matter of scheduling them. Second, a big pro of a Master's degree is that many adcoms give "points" for the completion of a Master's. Almost no adcoms do this for post-bacc programs (except for the "host" institution in some cases). As for the utility of a Master's as a doc. I hold an MPH. Every residency interview i went on asked about it and took it favorably. I am going into academic medicine where it will certainly be of use. Remember that residencies will "see" your participation in a postbacc program and that it is impossible to "spin" that into anything other than an inability to get into medical school on the first try. For me, I did not apply to medical school until after beginning my MPH. I was able to point out the areas where the MPH overlapped my chosen field (emergency medicine). I think that gave me an "edge" in the process (it didn't hurt that two of the senior faculty where I matched are currently "going back" for their MPHs).
There is an extensive thread on this subject here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=94480 but I have to warn you that it really degenerated into two or three people arguing "pro-masters" with one paranoid "pro-post bacc" who became convinced that I (and others I think) were creating new screen names just to argue with him. It got so bad that I stopped posting on SDN for a while. So, please, read the thread, but do not bump it! I think between the BS there are the pros and cons for both sides well laid out.
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Ok, I did a masters...that ended up becoming a PhD, so I'm biased.
But I know tons of med students and docs...I'm a bit older and work in a med school. ALL OF MY FRIENDS who did post bocs didn't get in after that...one gave up...two are in this years applicant pool and applying MD and DO. The one who gave up did a fellowship in the lab that developed AZT. These are best friend type people who I know are super smart...friends I met in school. I also think if you're going to fork over that kind of money and dump that much work in something...you should get some letters for it.
I know at least 20 people...docs and students who reapplied after a masters and all of them got in. One of the post bacc people is a friend from my masters program and I think she just didnt get in because the program only allowed her to reapply to one med school and they would only consider her if she got X Mcat score...she's like me. That test is not for us. She's also never applied before I'm I'm sure will get in.
In terms of future career and income and credentials all around, masters is better. But each program is different, talk to the programs and demand numbers on success of their grads. Some masters programs are in med schools like the one year pharmeacology (sp?) program at Tulane...everyone I knew from that program got in to med school, some that next year, some after working in a lab for a year and reapplying.
Just my opinion,
Truth, both are good options.
Good Luck!
-s
But I know tons of med students and docs...I'm a bit older and work in a med school. ALL OF MY FRIENDS who did post bocs didn't get in after that...one gave up...two are in this years applicant pool and applying MD and DO. The one who gave up did a fellowship in the lab that developed AZT. These are best friend type people who I know are super smart...friends I met in school. I also think if you're going to fork over that kind of money and dump that much work in something...you should get some letters for it.
I know at least 20 people...docs and students who reapplied after a masters and all of them got in. One of the post bacc people is a friend from my masters program and I think she just didnt get in because the program only allowed her to reapply to one med school and they would only consider her if she got X Mcat score...she's like me. That test is not for us. She's also never applied before I'm I'm sure will get in.
In terms of future career and income and credentials all around, masters is better. But each program is different, talk to the programs and demand numbers on success of their grads. Some masters programs are in med schools like the one year pharmeacology (sp?) program at Tulane...everyone I knew from that program got in to med school, some that next year, some after working in a lab for a year and reapplying.
Just my opinion,
Truth, both are good options.
Good Luck!
-s
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I would do a post-bacc. It is less money(prob. half) and gives you just as good a chance of getting accepted. You don't HAVE to take a certain # of credits like say 30 or more in the case of a masters degree. You can stop when you get accepted.
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stookie said:
What do you want to do if you DO NOT get into medical school?
Many post bacc programs lead to some sort of 'degree' with additional work, should you not get into medical school. Would you be happy with that degree? Or would you prefer having a master's degree in some other area?
I went the master's route and it took two years as opposed to the post-bacc one year. But for me it was worth it because I was preparing for the worst case scenario - not getting into medical school. And, of course, it helped that the the master's program was funded - I'm getting a 'free' M.S. because I was a teaching/research assistant.
Good luck.
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stookie said:
Smaller state schools with graduate programs usually have TA positions available.
Are you exploring the post-bacc vs master's option to better your application or to complete pre-reqs?
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stookie said:
I'd look at it as an uphill battle, but one worth fighting and capable of being won - especially if you are willing to do whatever it takes (post-bacc, master's or foreign school).
Have you taken the MCAT? Is so, is your score competitive?
What graduate/post bacc GPA do you think you are capable of getting?
Financially: Are you better off going out of the country now or spending the money to better your application?
Have you looked into any one-year, non-thesis grad programs? Some of them have partial funding for TAs.
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hyperbaric said:
I have not taken the MCATS because I fell behind in school by 1 semester, so I will have to take physics during the summer and take the MCAT in august. As far as grades go, I think i will be able to get atleast over a 3.2 gpa for post bacc classes, depending on how many classes I take a semester. Chemistry is what hurt my GPA alot, The lowest grade I ever got was an F for a 1 credit course (because I was an idiot) but other than that a C in molecular biology was the lowest grade I ever got. I have a few C+ like in gen chem 1 and 2. I am taking organic chem right now, and my class average is about 74%. Chemistry is really my weak spot. Financially, i dont really know if my parents can afford to send me out of the country to study, and I really don't want to go out of the country. I rather go to a DO school than live on an island for 2 years. Plus I want to avoid the headache of being a FMG. I jumped through alot of hoops in my short lifetime to get to where I am today,and I dont want to jump through any more. Can you suggest some masters program that have partial funding? That would be great.
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stookie said:
Sorry, but you'll have to look for those. Start with small, public schools.
Keep in mind that for grad school, you must find a major professor willing to take you as a student in addition to the standard grad school reqs.
Good luck.
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I would get a master's in something business oriented. It can only help and it will help you see things in a different light. I was in medicine for years as a paramedic and tech in the hospital. I was pre-med and then got my MS in Biology... all Science and Clincial Medicne focused. Then I tood a job giving clinical support to a new medical product FDA approved that evolved in to sales and marketing. It really opened my eyes to all the other aspects in medicine that are ignored because of the strict clinical focus (for obvious reasons). I will be reapplying in a couple of years, but the break from medicine has really improved my outlook and awarness of Medicine as a whole (ex. new technology does is not sought by medicine, business brings it to them and forces them to change... slowly! This baffeled me at first!?!) I also think it gives a "roundness" to my profile that will help me be unique in my application. If it is your true passion, you will come to it eventually. But get some training and education in something that will allow you to make some money and live like a little until the time presents. Freedom and cash is limited once you start medschool. Esp with a family.
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If it makes you feel better, this is something many have considered, including me. I will apply to 1-2 postbacc's but I am going to apply to two masters programs in nutritional biochemistry. I want to help develop nutritional supplements for my patients, so i figure if i'm not accepted to the Loyola strich mams program or the georgetown program, i am going to go to grad school to get my masters then reapply before the end of those two years. If you won't take no for an answer, I'd say either. Determination and hard work will get you in, it just depends on your overall goals. I am super excited about supplements and exercise, so the grad school route makes more sense. Good luck in your decision.
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PhDtoMD said:
Hi. Would you have any advice in terms of post-bacc vs Masters if we do not have the prereq's for Medical School (science courses)? Or do you know of any Master's that allow you to take some of those prereq's in the curriculum?
Thanks so much!
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stookie said:
I'm going to disagree with a few of the others and suggest that you do a post-bac. You need to up your undergrad gpa and that is the only way to do it. Grades in master's programs aren't really counted as much because they know it is virtually impossible to get C's in master's classes without being a total f***up. I would take as many upper level bio classes as possible and re-take any pre-reqs that you got C's or lower in. I have an MBA and the med schools could care less. They want to know you can succeed in hardcore science classes.
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remo said:
There were plenty of people in my Advanced Biochem class that made C's and lower and I dare to say my Neuroanatomy class was not hardcore science, as well neurophysiology, and toxicology.
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trauma_junky said:
Wow! How could neuroanatomy, & neurophysi. NOT be hard core science. I'm not disputing this but it seems amazing.
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stookie said:
In grad school things are much different. In undergrad they are trying to weed people out. In grad school they want you to graduate and are more helpful. In fact I saw that at one UC the PhD students have to take a big exam at the end of the first year and it is an open book, take-home if you can believe that. That is why I believe that a 3.5 grad gpa is the "cut-off" in the same way that a 3.0 is the "cut-off" when med schools look at it. Of course there are exceptions and some places are different, etc... but I think generally a med school will "respect" an A in an undergrad molecular bio class more than an A in a grad school class. You may want to look into these SMP programs which are a little different from most masters programs in that they are basically just used to get people in med school. I can tell you that in business school you had to basically fail to get a C in anything.
http://biology.ucsd.edu/grad/overview.html#exam
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Stookie, you can also check to see if you're university has any non-matriculating programs. Basically non-matriculating means that you aren't currently pursuing a degree. I attend LSU, and this semester I was a non-matriculating graduate student. My classes weren't technically for graduate credit, but if I decided to pursue a masters degree, they would have counted towards it. I was recently accepted into medical school because I took those classes and took an EMT-Basic course. Any sort of course that can give you some sort of experience in the field is a plus. I'm currently applying for jobs as an ER Tech to get some more experience before I get there next year. Good luck!stookie said:
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futuremd22283 said:
My school does have a non-matriculating program, but they do not offer alot of advanced bio classes. I am a bio major, and have taken basically every advanced bio class they offer. The ones I did not take are the ones they do not offer anymore. It's a pretty crappy school. My GPA is 2.86 and I figure it would take alot of post-bacc credits to raise it. I am in my final year, and i am doing well at school, so I hope to raise my GPA close to a 3.0 or at 3.0 when I graduate in May. I am leaning towards a masters because I believe that it will help me in gaining admission to a school, but then I dont want to spend up to 2 years doing a masters program, because I don't want to be old when I enter medical school. (I'm 21 now). Anyone wants to sway me away from doing a masters program?
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madonna said:
I had a master plan, but due to extraordinary circumstances from the beginning of my college career, I had trouble keeping up in school, but now I am doing better in school. The plan was to enter med school at 21 y/o and graduate in 4 years, like when I am 25 y/o and complete my residency by the age of 28. I would like to get into school as soon as possible, but to me, entering at the age of 24 I would feel like a failure, so that is why I am thinking about a post bacc or a 1 year master program but I can't decide what to take.
