post-bacc & summer science courses??

[badb100d]

Hey everyone, I've been a long time lurker and finally posting! Anyway, before I begin I want to say that yes, I have searched the forums and read what people have said about this topic, but wish to pose it again, this time in a non-trad, post-bacc context for some fresh answers. Sorry if I'm being redundant.

I will be starting a formal post-bacc program this coming January and am trying to plan out how I will take my classes. Ideally I would like to do gen chem and physics from SP09 - SU09 and then orgo and bio from FA09 - SP10. I think this course load would be very manageable and I'd be ready for the MCAT in roughly 1.5 years. However, I'm concerned about how the adcoms will view me taking two core science courses over the summer (albeit only the 2nd halves of those courses). I have been told that summer courses are strongly disliked by adcoms as they are considered "easier", and I've also had an adviser tell me that as long as I were to pull excellent grades in orgo (which would be during the normal school year) and a good MCAT score (aside from a good GPA overall), it really wouldn't matter that I took summer courses. So of course I'm utterly confused. Has anyone had summer classes adversely affect their apps or did they not matter? Thanks in advance for the advice!

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[txprodigal]

Hey everyone, I've been a long time lurker and finally posting! Anyway, before I begin I want to say that yes, I have searched the forums and read what people have said about this topic, but wish to pose it again, this time in a non-trad, post-bacc context for some fresh answers. Sorry if I'm being redundant.

I will be starting a formal post-bacc program this coming January and am trying to plan out how I will take my classes. Ideally I would like to do gen chem and physics from SP09 - SU09 and then orgo and bio from FA09 - SP10. I think this course load would be very manageable and I'd be ready for the MCAT in roughly 1.5 years. However, I'm concerned about how the adcoms will view me taking two core science courses over the summer (albeit only the 2nd halves of those courses). I have been told that summer courses are strongly disliked by adcoms as they are considered "easier", and I've also had an adviser tell me that as long as I were to pull excellent grades in orgo (which would be during the normal school year) and a good MCAT score (aside from a good GPA overall), it really wouldn't matter that I took summer courses. So of course I'm utterly confused. Has anyone had summer classes adversely affect their apps or did they not matter? Thanks in advance for the advice!

i think since you're a post bacc, it might be okay. i wouldn't worry so much about whether the admission committee will be suspicious but rather whether you'll actually learn the material during a summer session. as a post bacc, i think you'd have a good excuse if it ever came up as to why you took the class during the summer.

additionally, a good mcat score will prove that you actually learned the material (regardless of whether you had to learn it to yourself while studying for the MCAT or whether you actually learned it during the course)

 

[Law2Doc]

However, I'm concerned about how the adcoms will view me taking two core science courses over the summer (albeit only the 2nd halves of those courses). I have been told that summer courses are strongly disliked by adcoms as they are considered "easier", and I've also had an adviser tell me that as long as I were to pull excellent grades in orgo (which would be during the normal school year) and a good MCAT score (aside from a good GPA overall), it really wouldn't matter that I took summer courses. So of course I'm utterly confused. Has anyone had summer classes adversely affect their apps or did they not matter? Thanks in advance for the advice!

As discussed in another thread, summer courses are often significantly HARDER than regular semester classes if they are the kind that crams a full semester course into 6 weeks. So no, adcoms don't automatically assume they are easier, nor would that assumption even be accurate at most places. Many many people do some coursework over a summer and are not harmed by the fact. But don't assume it will be easier -- if you take a compressed course as I have described here, it may be a lot harder to keep up and get an A. But if it is such a compressed course, you will not be able to take two courses during the summer simultaneously.

 

[badb100d]

Thanks so much for your replies. Although I'm still not 100% sure about how I will schedule my courses, I do feel more comfortable now with this summer course option in terms of whether or not it would be an automatic strike against me. Just to clarify my situation the summer courses are indeed the 6 week cram courses, so I wouldn't be taking the physics and chem courses simultaneously but rather one after the other in a summer session I then summer session II. Basically it all comes down to what I suspected all along, do well in the courses no matter what and do well on the MCAT.

 

[student1799]

LizzyM, an adcom who often posts here, has said that she's not suspicious of summer courses IF they are taken at the applicant's home institution. But if an applicant has taken summer courses at a different school, she tends to be suspicious that an easier school was picked to pad the GPA.

IMO, this is a pretty uncharitable view of things, but I've learned that adcoms generally DO take an uncharitable view of pretty much everything. So you should probably assume that this view is the norm.

 

[badb100d]

Thanks student1799 for the extra info. I will be taking my courses all at the same institution. So if I ultimately decide to go this summer classes route (which I think I will at this point) it looks like a lot will be up to whatever the adcoms personally feel about summer classes. Ah well, just another factor to leave up to chance I suppose.

 

[echidna]

One more thing about summer courses- I took three of the prereqs last summer (2 lectures and a lab) and it was almost the death of me, mostly because of the lab. 4 hours per day five days a week plus a lab report to write almost every night(plus prelabs, of course) left virtually no time left over to study for Gen Chem and O-Chem, whose lectures took up the rest of the day anyway. I made out alright in the end but I'm pretty convinced I could have done better during the normal school year. I didn't retain much either since I was in non-stop cramming mode for weeks- at the end I felt aged.

To summarize: Beware Summer labs! They're fine by themselves but are big black holes in terms of study time.

 

[Law2Doc]

One more thing about summer courses- I took three of the prereqs last summer (2 lectures and a lab) and it was almost the death of me, mostly because of the lab. 4 hours per day five days a week plus a lab report to write almost every night(plus prelabs, of course) left virtually no time left over to study for Gen Chem and O-Chem, whose lectures took up the rest of the day anyway. I made out alright in the end but I'm pretty convinced I could have done better during the normal school year. I didn't retain much either since I was in non-stop cramming mode for weeks- at the end I felt aged.

To summarize: Beware Summer labs! They're fine by themselves but are big black holes in terms of study time.

This is a very common experience. I'm not sure why folks seem to think summer courses are "easier". This kind of pace is actually closer to the med school pace than anything you will have in undergrad.

 

[njbmd]

Hey everyone, I've been a long time lurker and finally posting! Anyway, before I begin I want to say that yes, I have searched the forums and read what people have said about this topic, but wish to pose it again, this time in a non-trad, post-bacc context for some fresh answers. Sorry if I'm being redundant.

I will be starting a formal post-bacc program this coming January and am trying to plan out how I will take my classes. Ideally I would like to do gen chem and physics from SP09 - SU09 and then orgo and bio from FA09 - SP10. I think this course load would be very manageable and I'd be ready for the MCAT in roughly 1.5 years. However, I'm concerned about how the adcoms will view me taking two core science courses over the summer (albeit only the 2nd halves of those courses). I have been told that summer courses are strongly disliked by adcoms as they are considered "easier", and I've also had an adviser tell me that as long as I were to pull excellent grades in orgo (which would be during the normal school year) and a good MCAT score (aside from a good GPA overall), it really wouldn't matter that I took summer courses. So of course I'm utterly confused. Has anyone had summer classes adversely affect their apps or did they not matter? Thanks in advance for the advice!

There is nothing wrong with taking a summer course as long as you are able to acquire the knowledge base that you can apply to questions on the Medical College Admissions Test. Many people find that while they are able to achieve "A"s in their summer coursework, the compression factor works against them in terms of being able to apply their knowledge to the MCAT. If this is not you, then don't worry about it.

We, on admissions committees, don't care when you take your courses as long as you do well in them. A poor grade grade (summer or regular session) looks bad. Equally bad is a poor score (or a pattern or poor/mediocre) scores on the MCAT. If you rush and find that you have achieved poor results,you have a problem that may be insurmountable. If your pre-med course plan works for you, your application is otherwise competitive, then complete your coursework and don't look back.

Also keep in mind that being non-traditional doesn't change anything. You are still going to be evaluated within the pool of applicants (urm, traditional and non-traditional) in the year that you apply to the schools that you apply to. Either you will be above average, average or below average. Maximize everything that you can and make sure that you do well in high quality coursework.

 

[rhettoric]

I'll offer up my anecdotal advice.

To me, the two advantages post-baccs have are

1) Maturity/focus
2) Time

The first is obvious. Nontrads, by definition are older and more experienced than traditional undergrads. They also tend to be more focused in achieving good grades. While many undergrads might procrastinate some assignments or put sub-optimal effort towards them, non-trads put everything they can into it.

The second is a more subtle but important concept. A traditional undergrad is often taking four classes while post-baccs/non-trads are only taking two. This provides a massive advantage in the sheer amount of time we can commit to those two classes. I personally spent at least 40 hours a week in outside study time (that's a conservative estimate), which no undergrad student could match and hope to do well in their other two classes.

In summer classes, this second advantage is nullified. You, like every undergrad classmate, are given an immense amount of work with a small amount of time to internalize it. This can have several negative results. You can get a bad grade in the summer class, which would require you to retake it. Or you don't have as keen an understanding of the material as you would if you took the longer semester course...this can effect your ability to perform well on the MCAT.

For me, I decided to make my post-bacc program last two years and do research/work during the summer and it worked well. I know several post-baccs in my program who did the summer classes, and though I don't know the grades, I got the impression that the classes were anything but easy. At least half of the students I know who took summer classes dropped the post-bacc program.

Like I said above, this is anecdotal and your mileage may vary. My plan throughout the program was, in all decisions, to put myself in positions to be as successful as possible. To my mind, summer programs sacrifice a portion of your chance to perform at the best of your capabilities to finish the program earlier. It wasn't a worthwhile trade for me.

I should also note that Gen Chem I in the spring semester at my institution was far easier than gen chem I in fall semester (taught by different profs). This might seem a boon, but when I taught gen chem 2 students who had taken the easier course, they were woefully unprepared for the work I had them do. Likewise, they were much weaker on the Gen Chem I aspects of the MCAT. If you take the first semester in the spring try to interview students and find out what they think of the classes. Set yourself up for long-term success!

 

[student1799]

Thanks so much for your replies. Although I'm still not 100% sure about how I will schedule my courses, I do feel more comfortable now with this summer course option in terms of whether or not it would be an automatic strike against me. Just to clarify my situation the summer courses are indeed the 6 week cram courses, so I wouldn't be taking the physics and chem courses simultaneously but rather one after the other in a summer session I then summer session II. Basically it all comes down to what I suspected all along, do well in the courses no matter what and do well on the MCAT.

I took 3 summer courses at my institution: Physics II (12 weeks), and the labs for Physics I and Physics II (6 weeks each). At my school, many summer classes were available in both 6- and 12-week versions, but the postbacc program would only allow students to take the 12-week courses. Since a normal semester is only 14 weeks, this was much closer to a "normal" course, but fairly intense nonetheless (a normal semester has a 1-week study period and final exam period on top of the 14 weeks, while a summer course doesn't). And I agree with the prior poster that summer labs are just PAINFUL.

 

[badb100d]

Oh wow, gone for a week and so many great replies! Thanks guys!! Obviously this is still an ongoing decision for me, but I'm happy to have read all your personal experiences and will let you know what I ultimately decide.

 

[atomi]

Hey everyone, I've been a long time lurker and finally posting! Anyway, before I begin I want to say that yes, I have searched the forums and read what people have said about this topic, but wish to pose it again, this time in a non-trad, post-bacc context for some fresh answers. Sorry if I'm being redundant.

I will be starting a formal post-bacc program this coming January and am trying to plan out how I will take my classes. Ideally I would like to do gen chem and physics from SP09 - SU09 and then orgo and bio from FA09 - SP10. I think this course load would be very manageable and I'd be ready for the MCAT in roughly 1.5 years. However, I'm concerned about how the adcoms will view me taking two core science courses over the summer (albeit only the 2nd halves of those courses). I have been told that summer courses are strongly disliked by adcoms as they are considered "easier", and I've also had an adviser tell me that as long as I were to pull excellent grades in orgo (which would be during the normal school year) and a good MCAT score (aside from a good GPA overall), it really wouldn't matter that I took summer courses. So of course I'm utterly confused. Has anyone had summer classes adversely affect their apps or did they not matter? Thanks in advance for the advice!

I took all my pre-reqs at the community college, and took ochem over the summer. It made no difference in my apps and I was accepted into top schools. Don't believe the hype. Make A's, then qualify them with a strong MCAT performance. You don't need to shell out the bucks for a formal post-bacc program -- those are just cash cows for the university.

 

[txprodigal]

I took all my pre-reqs at the community college, and took ochem over the summer. It made no difference in my apps and I was accepted into top schools. Don't believe the hype. Make A's, then qualify them with a strong MCAT performance. You don't need to shell out the bucks for a formal post-bacc program -- those are just cash cows for the university.

If you don't mind, would you be willing to share where you were accepted and also what you got on your MCAT?

Thanks!