Post-Bach and chances at MD

[XOT]

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Hi all,

I have been working on adding upper-level science courses as a Post-bach. student. I graduated with a cGPA of 3.1. Most of by pre-med requirment couses (G.Chm, physics, O.Chm where in the C+ to B range. That really hurt.

I just recently finished a tough semester of 13 credits of post bach class in Cell/molecular biology (4), cancer biology (3), neuroscience (3), and medical virology (3). I received A, B+, A-, A- respectively in those courses. And I just finished a 3-credit summer course in pharmacology and received a B+. I am finishing my summer with a 4 credit general biology II course. Overall, I hope that 20 credits at 3.7 gpa will help compensate for my past poor performance.

My question is, how do you think adcoms will look at this upward trend? How many Post-bach credits is considered acceptable to compensate for my past academic record?

Thanks

 

[TriagePreMed]

You would need at least a year (30 units) to show some trend. A semester of post-bacc is hardly anything. I think you're wasting your time though. An SMP could get you into medical school. Your units as of now will barely budge that 3.1 into an acceptable range. Most MD schools have about a 3.3 as their bottom 10th.

 

[Catalystik]

I have been working on adding upper-level science courses as a Post-bach. student. I graduated with a cGPA of 3.1. Most of by pre-med requirment couses (G.Chm, physics, O.Chm where in the C+ to B range. That really hurt.

I just recently finished a tough semester of 13 credits of post bach class in Cell/molecular biology (4), cancer biology (3), neuroscience (3), and medical virology (3). I received A, B+, A-, A- respectively in those courses. And I just finished a 3-credit summer course in pharmacology and received a B+. I am finishing my summer with a 4 credit general biology II course. Overall, I hope that 20 credits at 3.7 gpa will help compensate for my past poor performance.

My question is, how do you think adcoms will look at this upward trend? How many Post-bach credits is considered acceptable to compensate for my past academic record?

Thanks

Congrats on a very nice grade turn-around.

What is your cGPA now, including the first college, the one you graduated from, and the postbac? If you need it to answer the question: AMCAS GPA calculator: http://medschool.ucsf.edu/postbac/pdf/AMCAS%20GPA_Calculator%20Version%204%20Final.xls

It took years for you to dig yourself into your current GPA hole, and it's not reasonable to expect only 20 hours of 3.7 to bail it out again. It's been my observation that the equivalent of 2-3 full-time semesters with excellent grades can redeem your low GPA in some adcomm eyes. Not just the upward grade trend, but also sustained excellent performance over time is important. So if you decide to proceed with an application cycle this season, it would be important for you to plan at least another semester's worth of near-As (if not two), with submission of an offical transcript to each school after fall grades (and spring) come out, hoping to sway adcomms positively.

That said, if it's August by the time your summer grades are available, waiting that long to submit decreases your chances, as it would be September before verification is completed and longer yet until Secondaries are all in.

 

[XOT]

Thanks for the replies,

The biggest reason I have decided to go through the post-bach is due to the fact that two schools in MI advise that applicants with low GPAs do upper-level biology/biomedical courses as post-bach to redeem low GPA, for example Wayne State Medical School explicitly emphasize that applicants with low GPA complete 20 credits of post-bach. (at 3.7 gpa) and they would REPLACE these grades with your previous sGPA.

My goal is to actually complete MD and DO applications by 9/15 for matriculation in F'12. By this point I would have grades for 20 post-bach credits, AND I would be registered for an additional 10 credits of upper-level science courses for F'11 (which I can indicate are "in-progress" in my application, while hoping these grades in December will be added before their decisions)

I really need to do everything to start Medical school in F'12 (mostly because my age). I also have an MCAT of 35R. Yet, my biggest downfall is my previous academic records (starting from 2000). I have never been able to receive grades of better than a B- in chemistry and physics (even after multiple repeats). My upper-level biology/biomedical course grades have always been strong.

My final resort would be to enter an SMP program in F'12 while having my applications to MD for F'13 completed by 6/2012 (before starting the SMP).

 

[Catalystik]

You're only 30-ish, right? I work with a doc who started med school in his 50s, just to put the age thing into better perspective.

 

[XOT]

yeah Catalystik, I will be 30 this August. What do you think of the time frame I am thinking about? Do you think my grades for three upper-level BMS course (embryology, histology, molecular genetics) in the F'11 (September-December) will effect adcom decisions for my application I can submit in mid-September?

Thanks

 

[Amarillo]

Could you discuss Wayne State's stance on grade replacement a bit further? I have never seen anything like this mentioned; the way you have stated it makes it seem as though they honor something similar to DO grade replacement?

 

[Catalystik]

What do you think of the time frame I am thinking about? Do you think my grades for three upper-level BMS course (embryology, histology, molecular genetics) in the F'11 (September-December) will effect adcom decisions for my application I can submit in mid-September?

If you get As, it will have a positive impact at other schools, but probably less so than if you applied earlier in the cycle. I see why you want to wait though, since Wayne specified 20 hours of credits, and presumably they are your primary target.

 

[XOT]

Thanks for your input Catalystik, greatly appreciated. I am hoping that the further I can remove myself from my previous years of poor grades, the better chance I will have at Wayne. Especially with a strong MCAT score. My hope is that if I apply by mid-September with 20 credits of post-bach at 3.7 complemented by 10 more credits in the fall, my chances will rise. My only concern is that the grades from the fall will be too late for consideration. Are you familiar of something I can do to assure that the grades for Fall'11 (December) will be taken into consideration?

Amarillo: Wayne State does not have the same policy as DO schools where grades are simply replaced. Rather, I was told that they weigh post-bach. grades heavily (greater than 20 credits at a minimum of 3.7). Also, you would need a strong MCAT score to compensate for a poor undergrad performance.

 

[Catalystik]

Are you familiar of something I can do to assure that the grades for Fall'11 (December) will be taken into consideration?

List them as Future coursework on the AMCAS application so adcomms know they are pending, then promptly send an official transcript to Wayne when the grades are back.

Generally speaking, an official transcript isn't necessary and one just writes an update letter. But you want those fall grades to have maximal impact at Wayne, so go the extra step and spend what is necessary to send the official copy.

 

[Catalystik]

Hi Catalystik,
I was wondering if you are willing to receive a message from me concerning a current dilemma I am in. The question has to do with my current post-bach classes.

I am happy to engage in a public discussion about the problem here on your old thread so that others may benefit as well, if that is acceptable to you.

 

[XOT]

I am happy to engage in a public discussion about the problem here on your old thread so that others may benefit as well, if that is acceptable to you.

I am not sure if you can remember my academic history that I have mentioned in these forums...but here is a quick summary:

I attended my first UG (2000-2004) and earned about 95 credits with an ACOMA gpa of 2.4. From 2006-to this date I have been at a different university where I earned my first BS (in biomedical science) in 2009 and achieving an ACOMA gpa of ~3.1. At this university my first semester was horrible, but I have shown a steady improvement ever since and my last 65+ credit hours (which includes post-bach semesters) have been great. This includes one semester of 4 upper-level science course (c/m bio, cancer bio, medical virology, neuroscience). The other two post-bach semsters included one semester of pharm and general bio II and another semester of physics II and micro lab. I am mentioning the specifics to show that I have done both full-time and part-time work over this post-bach phase.

I know my GPA numbers are not even close to the average and most people would recommend DO, but I really want to take my chances with MD and see what happens (especially with a very strong MCAT).

Now comes my current predicemant: I have enrolled in 3 upper-level courses this semester (molecular bio, embryology, histology) in an attempt to enhance my GPA and continue showing my strong upward trend. But at this point of the semester, and after having received poor grades in my first exams in histology and embryogy, I have contemplated withdrawing from atleast my embryology class. Truth be told, I am feeling mentally exhausted after taking classes every semester starting from 2006, in addition to doing MCAT prep for the last 6 months.

My question is, keeping in mind that my only hope for getting into med. school is to show continued strong grades in upper-level courses-- how will a withdrawal from embryology at this point affect my overall achievements to date? I have had a habit of taking W in the past and I am concerned that another W after a long stretch of strong grades will be devastating.

Also, I should mention that the current embryology course that I am in is only for 3 credits. I took embryology in 2003 at my first UG for 4 credits (received an F) and this current course will not replace it for AACOMA.

Finally, just to give you a clue on my plans: I want to continue with histology and molecular bio (with a good chance of receiving A's) and continue to prep for the MCAT. I plan on taking the MCAT in March. In the summer I want to apply to both MD and DO and depending on my MCAT score (and recommendations from spcecific MD schools) I will either enroll in more post-bach courses and begin an SMP (F'12), hoping that these grades will positively supplement my application for F'13 matriculation.

You can probably see why I wanted to send you a private message....sorry for such a long post

THANK YOU

 

[Catalystik]

I am not sure if you can remember my academic history that I have mentioned in these forums...but here is a quick summary:

I attended my first UG (2000-2004) and earned about 95 credits with an ACOMA gpa of 2.4. From 2006-to this date I have been at a different university where I earned my first BS (in biomedical science) in 2009 and achieving an ACOMA gpa of ~3.1. At this university my first semester was horrible, but I have shown a steady improvement ever since and my last 65+ credit hours (which includes post-bach semesters) have been great. This includes one semester of 4 upper-level science course (c/m bio, cancer bio, medical virology, neuroscience). The other two post-bach semsters included one semester of pharm and general bio II and another semester of physics II and micro lab. I am mentioning the specifics to show that I have done both full-time and part-time work over this post-bach phase.

I know my GPA numbers are not even close to the average and most people would recommend DO, but I really want to take my chances with MD and see what happens (especially with a very strong MCAT).

Now comes my current predicemant: I have enrolled in 3 upper-level courses this semester (molecular bio, embryology, histology) in an attempt to enhance my GPA and continue showing my strong upward trend. But at this point of the semester, and after having received poor grades in my first exams in histology and embryogy, I have contemplated withdrawing from atleast my embryology class. Truth be told, I am feeling mentally exhausted after taking classes every semester starting from 2006, in addition to doing MCAT prep for the last 6 months.

My question is, keeping in mind that my only hope for getting into med. school is to show continued strong grades in upper-level courses-- how will a withdrawal from embryology at this point affect my overall achievements to date? I have had a habit of taking W in the past and I am concerned that another W after a long stretch of strong grades will be devastating.

Also, I should mention that the current embryology course that I am in is only for 3 credits. I took embryology in 2003 at my first UG for 4 credits (received an F) and this current course will not replace it for AACOMA.

Finally, just to give you a clue on my plans: I want to continue with histology and molecular bio (with a good chance of receiving A's) and continue to prep for the MCAT. I plan on taking the MCAT in March. In the summer I want to apply to both MD and DO and depending on my MCAT score (and recommendations from spcecific MD schools) I will either enroll in more post-bach courses and begin an SMP (F'12), hoping that these grades will positively supplement my application for F'13 matriculation.

You can probably see why I wanted to send you a private message....sorry for such a long post

THANK YOU

1) Why are you retaking an MCAT score of 35R? See sector9's graph in this thread for your ethnicity to see the impact of a higher MCAT score: sector9 graphs with explanations: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=838625

2) Did you apply this season, as you had suggested you might?

3) Taking a W would be better than getting a C. A good excuse is the fact that the credit hours are insufficient to invoke grade replacement.

4) had you PMed, I would not have had access to the back story like I do here.

 

[XOT]

1) Why are you retaking an MCAT score of 35R? See sector9's graph in this thread for your ethnicity to see the impact of a higher MCAT score: sector9 graphs with explanations: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=838625

2) Did you apply this season, as you had suggested you might?

3) Taking a W would be better than getting a C. A good excuse is the fact that the credit hours are insufficient to invoke grade replacement.

4) had you PMed, I would not have had access to the back story like I do here.

Thanks for the reply Catalystik...your advise is always highly appreciated.

1) My scores in each section on my first MCAT was (14 BS, 12 PS, 9 V). I am confident I can get a higher verbal score and make my component scores more balanced

2) I did not apply this summer, because I wanted to continue my upward GPA trend and more importantly, I wanted to recieve a more balanced MCAT score

3) Considering how important a continued strong upward GPA trend is in my particular situation, how determintal is the W in embryology going to be? Please keep in mind my overall academic background. I have basically come to accept that if any MD school is going to give me an acceptance it would be due to my most recent grades of 60+ credits in upper-level science courses. Therefore you can understand why this would be a huge decision for me

4) Catalystik--can you give me some feedback on the plans I outlined in my last post. Do you think it is the best path to take? Please add any suggestions to this.

Thank you

 

[Catalystik]

3) Considering how important a continued strong upward GPA trend is in my particular situation, how determintal is the W in embryology going to be? Please keep in mind my overall academic background. I have basically come to accept that if any MD school is going to give me an acceptance it would be due to my most recent grades of 60+ credits in upper-level science courses. Therefore you can understand why this would be a huge decision for me

4) Catalystik--can you give me some feedback on the plans I outlined in my last post. Do you think it is the best path to take? Please add any suggestions to this.

Thank you

3) Another W isn't the perfect situation, and I can't guess how every adcomm will view it, but it's been a long time since you took one, so you aren't using it as a crutch like you did before.

What is the best case scenario for a grade in Embryo if you get all As from now on?

Part of preparing for med school is showing that you understand your own limitations. You say you are burnt out. If you don't drop the course, there is the potential that you won't get As in the other two classes if you put a disproportional amount of effort into Embryo. If you don't drop and end up getting 3 Bs, that will look worse than a W and two As (JMO). You have to weigh the pros and cons, understanding that you are not Superman.

4)

my plans: I want to continue with histology and molecular bio (with a good chance of receiving A's) and continue to prep for the MCAT. I plan on taking the MCAT in March. In the summer I want to apply to both MD and DO and depending on my MCAT score (and recommendations from spcecific MD schools) I will either enroll in more post-bach courses and begin an SMP (F'12), hoping that these grades will positively supplement my application for F'13 matriculation.

I don't feel you need to retake the MCAT for a potential marginal improvement in chances. Not retaking means more effort can be devoted to your classwork. Retaking and doing worse would look bad.

Have you figured out your projected AACOMAS and AMCAS GPAs by next June 2012 with which you'd be applying?