dint know some places actually send post interview rejection emails! is it done to all candidates who are not going to be ranked? whats the point of doing that anyway? not as if they are giving me a better chance of matching at other programs by letting me know early! kinda demoralizing... cause i dont think i interviewed that bad....wouldve been better if i hadnt got the interview invite at all...
post iv rejection!
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I haven't heard about any places that send rejections. Demoralizing I bet, but at least you know where you stand with them.
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I got one too from the place we both interviewed at
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I agree they were actually doing a favor to me. I helped me estimate my chances realistically. A couple of other schools also hinted that I am not ranked to match.
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Actually, it is quite nice to hear if I am ranked or not, and I would certainly want to know that I am not ranked at a program. It certainly influences my ranking decisions. If you are only planning on ranking 5 programs, and one program has told you that they are definitely not ranking you, you know not to rank them and perhaps put a program on your rank list that you otherwise wouldn't have.
Anyone have any idea how many people programs usually rank on average? I guess it depends on how competitive the program is, but I really have no idea. If most programs interview 10 people per position, I wonder how many people they rank per position?
Anyone have any idea how many people programs usually rank on average? I guess it depends on how competitive the program is, but I really have no idea. If most programs interview 10 people per position, I wonder how many people they rank per position?
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why should it matter how programs will or will not rank you. You're ranking of programs should be entirely independent of how they feel for you. The match algorithm was design to favor candidates, so rank the programs in order that YOU like them.
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What program are you talking about?
Right - its upmc.
Still cant understand the point some ppl are trying to make. As far as I know I have absolutely no benefit knowing how a program is going to rank me. The match algorithm does not work that way. vinnyboy's case was different - not a common scenario. otherwise, upmc only seems to be rubbing it in. cant say I wont be pleased seeing them scramble like northwestern last year
Still cant understand the point some ppl are trying to make. As far as I know I have absolutely no benefit knowing how a program is going to rank me. The match algorithm does not work that way. vinnyboy's case was different - not a common scenario. otherwise, upmc only seems to be rubbing it in. cant say I wont be pleased seeing them scramble like northwestern last year
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I guess upmc already got the people they wanted this year. I must say I was impressed by their recruiting. The best on my interview trail. The facilities were nice. Everything was very well explained and organized. Residents laid back and friendly. Dealing with 100,000 cases and 9 different hospitals were made to feel like the easiest thing in the world. I went there with no expectations and left very very impressed.
hmmm each to his own... i went with the second set of ppl on interview day. there was no one at the door to take us to where we were supposed to go . we knew the name of the hall but not one person in the hospital seemed to know where the place was located. neither the pc nor the residents picked up the phone. imagine the tension as we kept going in circles around the hospital. finally we somehow managed to locate the hall only to find it locked from within. knocked and knocked....thought they were shutting us out...then one of us spotted a handwritten scrawl stuck somewhere saying that the venue had been shifted to some other floor. thats how my interview began.
at the risk of calling the grapes sour, i was not too impressed by their work place. old and slighlty cramped - esp the resident offices and the morgue. and their 'unique' segregated(u know what i mean) concept of interviewing. nevertheless, I do agree they have top notch faculty, terrific cases and a million fellowships. the tour and the residents were great too.
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wow, that many "you aren't ranked" Emails from one program? Thats kinda surprising. It doesnt hurt them to rank 200 people as long as they would be OK with getting #200 as their resident. Did they really interview that many people who they just didnt like? Did they fill all of their spots outside the match?
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The email was more like "based on this years applicants.....you are unlikely to match with us" but there was no indication I would not be ranked. So I guess they are still ranking people but just letting them know their chances are low.
Well, yeah, but I think some of us have gotten emails to the effect of "You will not be ranked.", not "You will not be ranked highly." In which case, if you are not an their list at all, there is no possibility for matching (right?) I'd rather know if I wasn't ranked that way I'd know not to waste a spot on my ROL.
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If Pitt's residency selection is anything like their med school admissions, they've already notified the top people on their list and have set up their contracts. Their "unorthodox" treatment of applicants seems to be an institution wide phenomenon.
I don't get this mentality. It's not like there is a limited number of programs you can rank. It doesn't cost more money to rank more programs, so who cares...unless it's all about bragging rights, i.e. "I matched to my #6 program, so I must be a better doctor than those who matched at 7 or lower"!
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cant say I wont be pleased seeing them scramble like northwestern last year
Pitt did scramble last year to fill their spots. It was one or two spots from what I remember. Of course someone from Pitt will undoubtedly come out of the woodwork and say that Pitt "chose not to fill their spots".
from my understanding, there is no such thing as wasting a spot on your ROL. if you aren't ranked there, you won't match there. end of story.
and heaven forbid you had to say you got your #2 choice (or lower) instead of #1. Horror of all horrors!
I got 2 emails. The first saying "you are not high on our list/you are unlikely to match with us" and the second, couple of weeks later saying "you will not match with us this year". logical sequence & no problems with communication there! they probably love some ppl more than others!
Exactly! I dont get it too. the information is of very little use. and yea "there is no such thing as wasting a spot on your ROL". guess i jus have to keep wondering why they do it. btw unless you rank more than 20 programs(that would be some record!), the nrmp registration fee covers your rol.
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Maybe they did some sort of post-match survey last year and asked people if they wanted to be notified if they weren't a strong candidate. I suspect a lot of people would say yes, even if you guys aren't. Maybe it depends on when you're asked the question. To me, I don't think it matters much. It shouldn't impact your ranking anyway. If you were going to rank it #1, rank it #1 anyway, it's not as though it reduces your chances of getting in somewhere else. If you were going to rank it #5, then rank it #5.
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The match shenanigans are irritating.
My understanding is that the residency PDs have a meeting. Among other things they informally talk about how far down their rank list they went. Much of this has to do with perceived national standing, so that they can say - we're the best evah because we got exactly who we wanted in the match. Instead of ranking who they WANT, they rank who they think they'll GET, strictly for bragging rights. I imagine that this is the completely and utterly ******ed rationale middle of the road programs would have for ranking ho-hum candidates highly. Top programs will also put undue pressure on top candidates, dancing the fine line of violation of match policy for the very same reason mentioned above.
As for rejection letters, programs probably want to spare themselves the trouble of dealing with emails, phone calls & second looks from candidates that they really are not interested in - it's motivated by selfish interests for certain. It would be everything that these programs deserve to have to scramble to fill.
My understanding is that the residency PDs have a meeting. Among other things they informally talk about how far down their rank list they went. Much of this has to do with perceived national standing, so that they can say - we're the best evah because we got exactly who we wanted in the match. Instead of ranking who they WANT, they rank who they think they'll GET, strictly for bragging rights. I imagine that this is the completely and utterly ******ed rationale middle of the road programs would have for ranking ho-hum candidates highly. Top programs will also put undue pressure on top candidates, dancing the fine line of violation of match policy for the very same reason mentioned above.
As for rejection letters, programs probably want to spare themselves the trouble of dealing with emails, phone calls & second looks from candidates that they really are not interested in - it's motivated by selfish interests for certain. It would be everything that these programs deserve to have to scramble to fill.
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I got the Pitt rejection email too....
After specifically being told IN PERSON by the PD after my interviews that "We like you and we're going to rank you"
Don't get it
~N
After specifically being told IN PERSON by the PD after my interviews that "We like you and we're going to rank you"
Don't get it
~N
Man...thats awful. Pitt seems to be on a pretty high pedestal. Atleast now I know they dont hate me personally!
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Man...thats awful. Pitt seems to be on a pretty high pedestal. Atleast now I know they dont hate me personally!
I harbor a massive amount of dislike for the program after interacting with them for med school applications. They play dirty games and leverage everything they can to improve their reputation. I'm sure people have had good interactions with them, but I've heard too many bad stories.
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If the place was so nasty, to so many, why does their residency interview feedback page on SDN have nothing but rave reviews?
http://more.studentdoctor.net/residencylist.php?program=3504
If they really are duplicit, others should know. (you should post)
http://more.studentdoctor.net/residencylist.php?program=3504
If they really are duplicit, others should know. (you should post)
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I didn't apply for residency there, otherwise I would.
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I also received one of those letters, saying they would rank me in the top XX.
I agree that sending emails that "you will not be ranked" is unnecessary, and just silence would be better. But the program is very good and the program director is a good guy, perhaps a bit misguided in his post-interview contact.
UPMC is so dominant in Pittsburgh, I think it rivals any hospital in any city. The resources they have are ridiculous. I would've ranked it much higher if I wanted to be in pittsburgh.
I agree that sending emails that "you will not be ranked" is unnecessary, and just silence would be better. But the program is very good and the program director is a good guy, perhaps a bit misguided in his post-interview contact.
UPMC is so dominant in Pittsburgh, I think it rivals any hospital in any city. The resources they have are ridiculous. I would've ranked it much higher if I wanted to be in pittsburgh.
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Well, the place is great, but not so much their post-iv applicant handling. Just keep in mind that all reviews came in before '"we love you/don't bother ranking us" e-mails.
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the whole unsolicited rejection thing is kind of lame on the program's part. you can gather that they didn't rank you highly if you ranked THEM highly and didn't match there. no need to demoralize the candidates in an already stressful experience.
but i guess there is still the possibility that this kind of response would help you make your ROL if you were torn with ranking this program over another...
this whole process is bizarre. try explaining it to a non-medical person sometime and enjoy the look that crosses their face...
Good luck, and don't sweat these guys!
but i guess there is still the possibility that this kind of response would help you make your ROL if you were torn with ranking this program over another...
this whole process is bizarre. try explaining it to a non-medical person sometime and enjoy the look that crosses their face...
Good luck, and don't sweat these guys!
Even doctors that didn't have to do the match don't really understand it.
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Maybe they looked at your qualifiations and checked their list and realized that you are likely to rank them less than 1, and will end up going to a higher ranked choice...
UPMC has always been a little weird about match.. and had at least a couple years where they have not filled.. (which as someone said they may be doing to themselves by intentionally not ranking people for some reason)...
I agree with the idea that this information should not really change your ranking... If you wanted to rank them #1 I would still do so (or maybe #2
)I would be interested in hearing if anyone who got one of those not likely to match comments matched there (you can PM me and I will post it here annomously)
Oh and I was told by a program that I was unlikely to match their (because they were sure that I was to far down on the list)..
Not only did I match, but they went MUCH further down than me on the list... Sometimes PDs get a little ahead of themselves..
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If a program tells you that you are unlikely to match and you rank them #1 anyway, does that put you at a disadvantage for matching at your #2? i.e. Assuming both #1 and #2 are highly competitive programs, how likely is it that my #2 will fill in the first round of the match process and I will match somewhere much lower than my #2? Maybe I should make #2 my #1 since I'm under the assumption I am ranked to match there?
No, it doesn't work like that. If you aren't ranked there your #2 becomes #1.
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Do not try to "game" the match. Rank your #1 as #1. It does not affect your likelihood of matching at your #2 program.
I have posted this before, but any questions about the match algorithm can be answered with the following:
1) Rank the programs in the order that you prefer them.
2) If you have additional questions, refer to #1.
I have posted this before, but any questions about the match algorithm can be answered with the following:
1) Rank the programs in the order that you prefer them.
2) If you have additional questions, refer to #1.
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I've heard of a few programs doing this...its obviously a power trip to them and an absolute joke.
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I'm not sure why they sent those letters. I thought I had it bad trying to decipher the ambiguous emails and letters that indicated that I would at least be ranked somewhere! It's in their best interest to rank as many qualified candidates as possible. It's in the best interest of the applicants to rank programs in the order of their preference. If the aforementioned program decides that it is not going to rank you, and you still rank them number one, then my understanding is that you are just as likely to match at your #2 program as you would be if you dropped them from your list and moved the #2 program up to #1. Therefore, it does the applicant no good to know that they are not being considered by a program. It is naive for an applicant to assume that any program is a sure bet. Likewise, programs do not benefit from informing applicants that they are not likely to match. The only way that a program can guarantee that an applicant will not match is by not ranking that applicant.
Instead of wasting their time discouraging less favorable applicants and incurring all sorts of hard feelings in the event that a discouraging letter recipient actually matches with them, they should spend more of their effort courting their favorite applicants... or they could just play by the rules, but where's the fun in that?
Instead of wasting their time discouraging less favorable applicants and incurring all sorts of hard feelings in the event that a discouraging letter recipient actually matches with them, they should spend more of their effort courting their favorite applicants... or they could just play by the rules, but where's the fun in that?
hhmmmm i just love optimists!Oh and I was told by a program that I was unlikely to match their (because they were sure that I was to far down on the list)..
Not only did I match, but they went MUCH further down than me on the list... Sometimes PDs get a little ahead of themselves..
Well as of now it seems pretty clear what the consensus on this thread is. To be frank its been kinda uplifting personally knowing im not sailing alone. glad I decided to post here instead of brooding bout it. Thank you all for sharing thoughts!
Surprising to see how many ppl have misconceptions about the match and the way the rol works. hope it was of some benefit to applicants (who had not seen older threads on the topic) in fine tuning their rols. also wish we had someone from u pitt or other such programs post a few clarifications jus so we could hear their side of the story as well. till then i guess one of the earlier posts by yaah on this thread is possibly the best explanation.
Good luck to all on match day!
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I did not get one of those messages from Pitt. Perhaps the reason why is I never had the chance to interview there. The reason for not interviewing...the 1 date they gave me to choose from was not possible (only program to give me 1 choice). I already had 8 or so interviews scheduled when they invited me and was on a rotation when they wanted me to come visit. To make matters worse, when I commnicated this conflict to them and had assurance I would be gotten back to about scheduling another date, I never heard back. This despite a reminder email from me.
No hard feelings toward Pitt...I know I've matched somewhere else. It just seems they handle things oddly compared to all other programs with which I interacted.
No hard feelings toward Pitt...I know I've matched somewhere else. It just seems they handle things oddly compared to all other programs with which I interacted.
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