sga430

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phew. finally done. Here is my RoL:

list deleted. pm me if u want it. sorry.

i know a few of them r questionable but i am using location, workload and the quality of the program. the ones at the top 1/3 is where i am most concerned about. i do have some doubts about thomas jefferson, vegas, st. e/caritas boston and hennepin being so high on my list but i just loved the locations and other factors. i will be certifying this in about an hour so please be both brutal and quick in your critique.
 
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OldPsychDoc

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phew. finally done. Here is my RoL:
...i know a few of them r questionable but i am using location, workload and the quality of the program. the ones at the top 1/3 is where i am most concerned about. i do have some doubts about thomas jefferson, vegas, st. e/caritas boston and hennepin being so high on my list but i just loved the locations and other factors. i will be certifying this in about an hour so please be both brutal and quick in your critique.

Just go with your gut--you've done a helluva lot of work. Your criteria are solid, and your training will be fine just about anywhere in the top 2/3s (or more, really...there's nothing glaringly wrong with even your last two, from what I'm aware of) of your list, I think.
 

sga430

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thanks for the support. i hope everyone (atleast the applicants if not the programs) gets their #1.
 

strangeglove

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1) Columbia
2) Cornell
3) Yale
4) NYU
5) MGH/McLean
6) Mt. Sinai
7) North Shore-LIJ
 

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That is quite a long list (42!). If you are a US medical graduate and do not have any glaring deficits on your application you will likely match somewhere in your top 4.

For others reading (perhaps more for PGY I - III who have yet applied) in my experience, I do not believe psychiatry has yet reached that point where most US applicants would need to interview and rank more than 10-15 programs (if one were concerned about time & travel costs).
 

sga430

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lol. i thought it would be obvious that i am an IMG. why else would some1 go to 44 interviews or why else would someone go to such a strange variety (from utah to mobile to elmhurst to wash u to cedars.)

btw i may be a lil insane. i think for an img 15 is a safe number.
 

jjbmsiv

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Is it really that kosher to be posting your list before the 21st? I know many programs are still deciding their lists right around now, and Id prefer to wait until after they've finalized before I accidentally/potentially piss people off. I think other posters will be more free in this thread too later, for the same reason.
 

i61164

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Question for sga430: I notice that you ranked UNC and ECU (both in North Carolina). What about Wake? Did you apply? Did you interview and not rank the program? Based on the fact that location is pretty important to you I suspect you would not want to come to Winston anyway, but Greenville is probably even worse and you ranked ECU. I am just curious because I have heard some negative comments about Wake (for psych) and I just wondered what the perception is from someone that has seen a lot of programs (who better than yourself?).
 

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holy moly!!!!!!:eek:

If by some fluke you don't match, you will be in Guiness record book.

Only thing I think about when I see that list is, why didn't you stop after interview 30?
How much did the entire match process cost you in: ERAS fees, travel & expenses, plus fee to rank 42 programs?
 

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Not only is there the question of it not being kosher to post your ROL prior to the 21st, but it's to the advantage of your peers to know the ROL of as many other people as possible who share even 1 program in common. of course this means tha it's to your own disadvantage to post your ROL on this site, unless of course you're posting a list that strategically differs from the one you actually certify at 9pm eastern on 2/21.

forgive me for stating what was probably obvious to the rest of you. just wanted those who are posting to be forewarned. and remind those who are reading to take all of this with a grain of salt.
 

jjbmsiv

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Absolutely my thoughts as well. Not only does it benefit your peers, as Mr. Chewbacca eloquently puts it, but it helps your programs too, perhaps to your detriment! I've received a couple emails in the last week or two saying they were creating their lists, and were writing to address some last minute things about my application. To think that none of these program directors or other such folks couldn't/doesn't read SDN is probably foolhardy, and it is not too late for them to make changes! Why give them such ammunition yet until AFTER it's irrelevant on the 22nd of February?
 
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Oceanview,

While I agree that it might be premature to post your ROL, I fail to see how it could be used to game the system by other applicants. One should always rank their own ROL in order of their preference.

sga,

Enjoy your well deserved vacation. It looks like we're only competing with each other at 3 programs, none of which make both of our top 10.
 

maranatha

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Absolutely my thoughts as well. Not only does it benefit your peers, as Mr. Chewbacca eloquently puts it, but it helps your programs too, perhaps to your detriment! I've received a couple emails in the last week or two saying they were creating their lists, and were writing to address some last minute things about my application. To think that none of these program directors or other such folks couldn't/doesn't read SDN is probably foolhardy, and it is not too late for them to make changes! Why give them such ammunition yet until AFTER it's irrelevant on the 22nd of February?

Not sure I understand why a program would make changes to their rank list based on SDN...? Also, how does it benefit our peers? We are all supposed to make a list that is based on where we want to go. You make it sound like there is some sort of game involved. Am I missing something?
 

jjbmsiv

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Well, it is entirely possible that PDs or other residency selection members would read these forums. It's also not outside the realm of possibility that they could figure out who you are based upon your comments. By posting a rank list, and, say, ranking that program poorly, they may decide not to rank you at all, or bump you lower than they had had you simply because they are now aware of your disinterest. If this action means that you have to scramble, instead of ranking at a lower spot, then posting a list early wasn't very constructive, was it?

I'm not paranoid (I swear!), and I know it may seem extreme (and that's okay), but I don't see how this thread is constructive, really, until after both lists are in and closed. Personally, after the 21st I'd be happy to share who I ranked and who I didn't. Until then, I see little reason to anything that could jeopardize things.

Besides, Maranatha, I don't see your list posted in this thread at the moment, do I?
 

maranatha

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Besides, I don't see your list posted in this thread, Maranatha, do I?

LOL...good point. I agree that there is no reason to post a ROL, but I'm not putting it up for different reasons. I suppose I'm a little superstitious. ;)
 

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I just want to give some respect to the OP. You have amazing endurance. I only interviewed at 6 places and I was exhausted! I hope you get your first choice, you deserve it :thumbup: .
 

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I just want to give some respect to the OP. You have amazing endurance. I only interviewed at 6 places and I was exhausted! I hope you get your first choice, you deserve it :thumbup: .

Actually, is it most fitting that he gets his first choice, because he earned a break, or that he get his last choice, to vindicate his efforts?

Either way, it's a win-win situation.
 

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sga430,

Just out of curiosity, are there any programs that you didn't rank? What were the "dealbreakers" that would not allow you to rank any of them as your #43? No Diet Coke available during lunch, perhaps? :D
 

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sga430,

Just out of curiosity, are there any programs that you didn't rank? What were the "dealbreakers" that would not allow you to rank any of them as your #43? No Diet Coke available during lunch, perhaps? :D

Actually, that would have disqualified #17,right? ;)
 

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Actually, that would have disqualified #17,right? ;)
Touché! Not to mention #34. I can just picture the residents during lunch:

"OMG! That kid had the audacity of asking for a caffeinated beverage!"
"Those are precisely the types of people that wreck the call schedule."
"There's no room for people with substance abuse problems in this program."
"He's so hott! I just love a man who lives on the edge!" :love:
 
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grishko2007

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Ha ha one of my bf's is Mormon and they're actually allowed to drink diet coke (and all other carbonated beverages), just not caffeinated coffee or tea. I was told it's b/c dc didn't exist in Joseph Smith's day so this is their loophole into the dark side :eek:
 

sga430

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i did rank every place i went to except 2 that dont use the match. (only prematches.) i didnt get an interview everywhere so thats why u may see some not there. (i am an img.) so i ranked every place i could and went to every interview i could.

also i am anonymous here so no program would know who i am. (for obvious reasons i did not tell any programs i had 44 interviews.)
 

sga430

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Touché! Not to mention #34. I can just picture the residents during lunch:

"OMG! That kid had the audacity of asking for a caffeinated beverage!"
"Those are precisely the types of people that wreck the call schedule."
"There's no room for people with substance abuse problems in this program."
"He's so hott! I just love a man who lives on the edge!" :love:

university of utah are great. they take applicants for a pre-interview pub outing and buy the applicants beer. they are really friendly and wont hold it against you.
 

sga430

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true. many of the utah residents are not mormom. also about half or more of the residents at loma linda are not adventist. however loma linda is an adventist run institution. it does influence the training. in utah the training is not really influenced but u have to have knowledge since ur pt. base is heavily mormon.

on another note, my list is skewed by preference for the coasts and for big cities and light workload. the ranking does not directly reflect the program. (for example university of louisville is a better program than un vegas. however in my humble opinion vegas is a better location.)
 

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The main teaching hospital at Utah also houses a giant Starbucks in the lobby and the residents (at least the surgical ones, I don't know if this is the case for psych) are given a monthly spending allowance to buy coffee and whatever else there. So not only do they condone caffeine consumption at Utah, they also enable it!!!
 

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having taken this idea from iserson's book, i also wondered how knowing the ROL of others who interviewed at the same programs as you might be beneficial to you. here's what i came up wiht.

it's true that your 1st choice should be based absolutely on preference along. it doesn't benefit you to know where others are putting that particular program because no matter what as along as you are high enough on their list, you will match. you can't benefit from knowing where others' are going to put it. unless of course you are torn between two programs for your top spot.

Note the following example where an applicant is considering the following ROL:

1. program Alpha
2. program Beta
3. program Kappa

If this applicant would be happy at either Beta or Kappa, and furthermore, he knows that everyone who interviewed at Beta is going to rank it highly, whereas program Kappa is going to appear on fewer ROLs, it's obviously to his benefit to move Kappa to #2.

Make sense?

I think it's pretty clear that program directors who know the ROLs of applicants are at a clear advantage over program directors who don't.
 

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Note the following example where an applicant is considering the following ROL:

1. program Alpha
2. program Beta
3. program Kappa

If this applicant would be happy at either Beta or Kappa, and furthermore, he knows that everyone who interviewed at Beta is going to rank it highly, whereas program Kappa is going to appear on fewer ROLs, it's obviously to his benefit to move Kappa to #2.

Make sense?

That's not true. Even if he/she knows everyone who interviewed at Beta is going to rank it highly, it in no way hurts them to keep it at #2. It does not hurt his chances of matching at kappa... he'll match at beta if he is high enough on the program's rank list, but if all of the spots are taken by other applicants, the process starts over for kappa (his #3). He has the same shot at kappa.
 

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further more, it does not benefit the program directors at all to know the applicants ROL, because they do not know why the applicant places a particular program in a certain order. For instance, my number 8th program on my list happens to be Vermont. However, I really liked the program and I would be very grateful to go there and my performance there would in no way be jeopordized by its place in my ROL. It happens to be 8th because of the winters-- My wife really does not want to move somewhere colder than where we already live. So even though it is second to last on my list--it really means nothing about my over-all interest in going there. In fact, I feel pretty lucky that of all my 9 ranked programs I would be perfectly content going to any of them-- although unlucky at the same time because ranking the programs is about as easy as splitting hairs.

If a program director sees a list on SDN and modifies their ranking list, they are cheating themselves out of the opportunity to get the best possible combination of appplicants, by following incomplete information. Most PD's are not perusing these sites and scrutinizing our posts. If they are, then I'd be concerned about going to suchs programs.
 

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quoting from iserson's getting into a residency:

"after listing the top choice, applicants might theoretically get better results if they listed programs based on konwing how all other appicants rated programs..."

iserson, kv. getting into a residency. 6th ed. ch 22. pg 538. galen press ltd.

a theoretical conern because it's unlikley that an applicant could possibly know what everyone else's rank list looks like. that is, unless we all decide to post our ROLs on a website.
 
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Oceanview

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Even if he/she knows everyone who interviewed at Beta is going to rank it highly, it in no way hurts them to keep it at #2. It does not hurt his chances of matching at kappa... he'll match at beta if he is high enough on the program's rank list, but if all of the spots are taken by other applicants, the process starts over for kappa (his #3). He has the same shot at kappa.

i don't pretend to know everything here, so could you please explain to me why putting a program higher on your ROL does not increase your odds of matching there?

the logic you used above seems to me a common misconceptoin

given my assertion that the applicant would be equally happy matching at either place, how does moving program kappa higher than program beta not increase his chances of matching at program kappa?
 

RustNeverSleeps

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having taken this idea from iserson's book, i also wondered how knowing the ROL of others who interviewed at the same programs as you might be beneficial to you. here's what i came up wiht.

it's true that your 1st choice should be based absolutely on preference along. it doesn't benefit you to know where others are putting that particular program because no matter what as along as you are high enough on their list, you will match. you can't benefit from knowing where others' are going to put it. unless of course you are torn between two programs for your top spot.

Note the following example where an applicant is considering the following ROL:

1. program Alpha
2. program Beta
3. program Kappa

If this applicant would be happy at either Beta or Kappa, and furthermore, he knows that everyone who interviewed at Beta is going to rank it highly, whereas program Kappa is going to appear on fewer ROLs, it's obviously to his benefit to move Kappa to #2.

If the applicant truly likes Beta and Kappa equally, it really doesn't matter the order in which he ranks them. If the applicant slightly prefers Beta to Kappa, he should rank it higher, regardless of how unlikely he is to match at Beta and likely to match at Kappa. It's only to the applicant's advantage to rank Kappa higher than Beta if he likes it better.

If the applicant is ranked by Kappa such that he is able to match there, he will be able to match there whether the applicant ranks Kappa 2nd, 3rd, or 8th, provided the applicant does not match at any programs ranked higher on his list. Your strategy of moving Kappa up is a common misconception and doesn't reflect how the match actually works.
 

sga430

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still not sure how a program would know who i am or would bother themselves with the effort of figuring out who I am. a few of the posters are under the impression that the programs know who i am. cant figure out how they would know.
 

sga430

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lol. well if u do know who i am, keep it under wraps till the 21st. PM me if u would like. thanks.
 

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student from Upper Midwest. This is 5/11...

WashU
Penn
Duke
Emory
Yale
...

good luck everyone!
 

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Hey, what the hell. Here's the list, in order:

Sheppard-Pratt/UofMD
Jefferson
UMass
Albert Einstein Medical Center
UMDNJ-Cooper
UMDNJ-Atlantic City
 

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1. Pitt
2. UMich
3. UMass (Adult)
4. UMass (Child/Adult)
5. Maryland/Shepard Pratt
6. Hopkins
7. IOL
8. OSU
9. Louisville
10. MUSC
 
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