Postbacc or SMP?pls help

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IanMcStruthers

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I'm a nontrad student, non-URM CAapplicant, graduated already with a cgpa=3.4, sci gpa = 3.0(upward trend, 3.65 in senior year with mostly sci classes). My first mcat score was 23S, second mcat score was 25T (verbal holding me back :\). ECs are decent, with volunteering, research and a publication.
I wasn't successful this cycle for MD. Should I:
1) retake the mcat and apply next cycle?
2) apply for any postbacc, then reapply- If so does it matter where I do postbacc?
3) Apply for SMP with linkage?
4)Caribbean? (Don't believe in DO philosophy)

Please help. Thanks a lot!

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I'm a nontrad student, CA applicant, graduated already with a cgpa=3.4, sci gpa = 3.0. My first mcat score was 23S, second mcat score was 25T (verbal holding me back :\). ECs are decent, with volunteering, research and a publication.
I wasn't successful this cycle for MD. Should I:
1) retake the mcat and apply next cycle?
2) apply for any postbacc, then reapply- If so does it matter where I do postbacc?
3) Apply for SMP with linkage?
4)Caribbean? (Don't believe in DO philosophy)

Please help. Thanks a lot!

Don't take it, unless you've been studying very hard and extremely confident you can do way better than average. Not only does MCAT need vast improvement so does your GPA.

I don't think any formal post-bacc will take you considering you've taken all the classes already. So you would looking at an informal post-bacc, but would take a lot of time and money to move your GPA.

Your best bet is to look into SMP.

There's nothing wrong with a DO program.
 
I'm a nontrad student, CA applicant, graduated already with a cgpa=3.4, sci gpa = 3.0. My first mcat score was 23S, second mcat score was 25T (verbal holding me back :\). ECs are decent, with volunteering, research and a publication.
I wasn't successful this cycle for MD. Should I:
1) retake the mcat and apply next cycle?
2) apply for any postbacc, then reapply- If so does it matter where I do postbacc?
3) Apply for SMP with linkage?
4)Caribbean? (Don't believe in DO philosophy)

Please help. Thanks a lot!

What specifically do you disagree with in the DO philosophy? Have you shadowed a DO?
 
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I'm a nontrad student, CA applicant, graduated already with a cgpa=3.4, sci gpa = 3.0. My first mcat score was 23S, second mcat score was 25T (verbal holding me back :\). ECs are decent, with volunteering, research and a publication.
I wasn't successful this cycle for MD.
You're probably 2-3 years from a successful MD app cycle. Your stats are what's keeping you from succeeding.

In California, in particular, you're more than 2 standard deviations below the matriculant average for science GPA, and about 2 standard deviations below the MCAT average. See https://www.aamc.org/download/161700/data/table21.pdf

You're acing the writing section but verbal is killing you? I don't get it. Also, verbal isn't killing you (unless you're saying you got a 3 and then a 5). You need to be getting 10+ on each section.

Unfortunately the writing section has no correlation with board scores, so it's largely ignored. Unfortunately the verbal section does correlate with board scores, so you have to at least break an 8.
Should I:
1) retake the mcat and apply next cycle?
Definitely you'll need to retake the MCAT, but not before you go back and do more coursework. A 3.0 science GPA says you don't have the material down. Until you have the material down, your MCAT scores won't go up much.
2) apply for any postbacc, then reapply- If so does it matter where I do postbacc?
It doesn't really matter where you do more undergrad, but generally you'll want to avoid doing community college or online study.

Paying for more undergrad is really difficult. You might want to look into something like Berkeley Extension on top of a part time job, or doing a 2nd bachelors so you can get partial funding.

Depending on how much coursework is in that 3.0 science GPA, you may or may not be able to improve it much. In your shoes I'd be looking at this:
1. Do at least one full time undergrad year, mostly science, at a 3.7+. If you got less than a B in a prereq, retake it.
2. Do rigorous MCAT prep and get over the average of 31+. (California average is higher.)
(2a. Applying DO could be done here.)
3. Do an SMP, which is a one year masters where you do most of the first year of med school as an audition for med school.
4. Then apply MD.
3) Apply for SMP with linkage?
Not before you show a much stronger performance in undergrad science. From a 3.0 science GPA & a sub-30 MCAT, you'd get killed in an SMP.

Meanwhile, doing an SMP with "linkage" generally means you're paying out of state tuition, so your cost of attendance for med school will be well over $300k. That's on top of what it costs to do more undergrad and an SMP. Better to not be in a hurry and focus on getting into a UC. Which will take a few years.
4)Caribbean? (Don't believe in DO philosophy)
If the DO philosophy you're not believing is the "treat the whole patient, treat the patient not the disease, etc", that's no different from MD philosophy. If you're talking about the spinal manipulation part, you don't have to believe in it - only something like 3% of DOs do the "osteopathic" part. You need a better reason to not do DO than not believing in "the philosophy".

You have the option to get into med school faster, get into medical practice faster, get out of debt faster, if you go DO. Any path you want to take as a doctor you can take as a DO - you can do surgery, you can do "MD" residencies, you can do military, you can do Doctors Without Borders, you can be on the cover of Newsweek, you can be Stephen Colbert's orthopedic surgeon, you can be faculty at an MD med school, you can be the team doctor for an MLB/NFL/NBA/MLS team. You could be the first DO surgeon general.

As for the Carib, they would LOVE to have you, because they can take your tuition dollars for 2 years and then make you remediate, and then fail you out, leaving you on the hook for about $200k in student loans that aren't discharged in a bankruptcy. Or, if you're so lucky as to be successful in a Carib school despite your undergrad GPA & MCAT, and your Carib school lets you take the boards and do rotations and graduate, you have less than a 50% chance of getting a residency, and those are mostly family practice & psych. See the table on page 11 here: http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2012.pdf.

One last thing: there's no guarantee that you'll ever get in. Not even if you do everything right. You have to want it bad enough to do years of GPA comeback work even if it doesn't pay off.

Best of luck to you.
 
3. Do an SMP, which is a one year masters where you do most of the first year of med school as an audition for med school.
4. Then apply MD.

Not before you show a much stronger performance in undergrad science. From a 3.0 science GPA & a sub-30 MCAT, you'd get killed in an SMP.

Meanwhile, doing an SMP with "linkage" generally means you're paying out of state tuition, so your cost of attendance for med school will be well over $300k. That's on top of what it costs to do more undergrad and an SMP. Better to not be in a hurry and focus on getting into a UC. Which will take a few years.
I simply don't believe in being dishonest by going DO, wasting my time paying $$ for classes that I do not agree with nor will find useful, and taking a DO school spot from another genuinely interested candidate. I mean, aren't these some of the reasons you wouldn't go with DO?

@DrMidLife, I forgot to mention I did 4 yrs undergrad. In my 4th year, my gpa was 3.65, taking 8 science classes mostly As, some Bs. Does this improve my chances at SMP? If so what GPA and MCAT (retake) score would I need to be competitive for SMP? I will try to continue taking informal postbacc classes at a CC or maybe through a UC extension (although it's competitive in SoCal where I moved to)
Also, when is the best time to apply for SMP? Is May 2013 too late to begin at say, Georgetown, in Aug 2013 (same year)?

I am ready to work hard, and will most likely seek employment soon.

Thank you
 
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I simply don't believe in being dishonest by going DO, wasting my time paying $$ for classes that I do not agree with nor will find useful, and taking a DO school spot from another genuinely interested candidate. I mean, aren't these some of the reasons you wouldn't go with DO?

@DrMidLife, I forgot to mention I did 4 yrs undergrad. In my 4th year, my gpa was 3.65, taking 8 science classes mostly As, some Bs. Does this improve my chances at SMP? If so what GPA and MCAT (retake) score would I need to be competitive for SMP? I will try to continue taking informal postbacc classes at a CC or maybe through a UC extension (although it's competitive in SoCal where I moved to)
Also, when is the best time to apply for SMP? Is May 2013 too late to begin at say, Georgetown, in Aug 2013 (same year)?

I am ready to work hard, and will most likely seek employment soon.

Thank you

I think you misunderstand what a DO is. Ceteris paribus, there is almost no difference between a MD and a DO anymore.

To be competitive ideally you would do a year of full time course work with nothing less than a 4.0 and a 35+ on your MCAT for California.

Applying early is better, just be sure you have everything ready.
 
I forgot to mention I did 4 yrs undergrad.
You said you graduated, so I assume you did 4 years. Now you need to do more.
In my 4th year, my gpa was 3.65, taking 8 science classes mostly As, some Bs.
That's better, but if your cumulative science GPA is 3.0 after a year of 8 science classes at a 3.65, that says your prereqs are down in the 2's. Do you think SMPs and med schools aren't going to focus on your grades in the prereqs?
Does this improve my chances at SMP?
A year at 3.65 in mostly science is what an SMP would be looking for, yes. But your prereq grades are still a problem.
If so what GPA and MCAT (retake) score would I need to be competitive for SMP?
Generally the most successful SMP applicants are only slightly below average on GPA and are above average on MCAT. Average MCAT is 31+ (higher in California).
I will try to continue taking informal postbacc classes at a CC
Your reading comprehension issues are evident.
Also, when is the best time to apply for SMP?
When apps open. Usually as early as October.
Is May 2013 too late to begin at say, Georgetown, in Aug 2013 (same year)?
Yes. The Gtown program is by far the most competitive, and is the best known back in California, and it's full by January. If you apply right at the deadline, at best you'd be competing for a waitlist spot.

I suggest you would benefit from doing 10,000 times more reading of posts than posting of them. Worked for me.

Best of luck to you.
 
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