Potential Visa Issues

[javajava]

I am a Canadian who is interested in pursuing education in the USA. Personally, if I complete a degree in Podiatric Medicine, I want to stay in USA just due to the increased flexibility in scope and practice as well as the plethora of oppurtunities alloted to us by the pioneering podiatrists in America. However I am scared that after obtaining a degree in Podiatric Medicine, I would have to go back to Canada, which would not be my ideal situation and NOT EVEN have a chance to complete residency dooming me to be a over qualified shoe salesmen or manicurists for housewives.

My understanding is this...

To go to school, international students would need the student visa, which is given to said students after accepting an offer from a school

Now this is where it gets fuzzy for me...

After school, I would want to do the three year residency, however my student visa would be done for, so in order to do the residency I would need a work visa(not sure where I get this) then after I complete the three year residency, I would apply for a H1-B1 work visa which would allow me to work in USA for six years (not sure where I can get any of this). Then I would apply for a green card.

My question is, where the hell do I get these visas (marrying an american out of the question)

Is it relatively easy for an international advanced degree holder to obtain a green card compared to regular immigrants. Or is it just the same pain in the ass as anything else. I read somewhere that someone needs to sponsor you for a green card (like attendings, but why would they want to do that when they can get an american), do I need to be sponsored for all the other visas too. Just where do I get any of these visas.

These are just a tip of the ice berg in terms of questions I have and the viability of me going USA to do schooling as I would want to stay in USA (california) so bad. If staying in USA is not a possibiliy after a residency (or even during), then Im not sure if I can even obtain a profession in healthcare (probably, and begrudingly, would have to get higher degrees in psychology which I love, but cannot see myself doing), as my numbers are not competitive AT ALL for canadian institutions granting healthcare degrees. (probably would have my app pre screened out).

Could someone give a whole run down about the process I would appreciate it so much. My goal is to obtain my education in USA and stay in the USA as a Canadian Citizen. So.. how do I get the green card

Pre pods, pod students, pods, attendings, retired pods, international pods or anyone familiar with visa work is welcome to reply. I think this would also be a good thread for future applicants as eventually many of Canadians like myself may be interested in podiatry and may really be frustrated by visa issues. Thanks.

FYI this thread freaks me out http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=720299
as well as this http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=589051

I also saw that a good portion of residencies require citizenship after looking at the CASPR site... for example only five of twenty three CA residencies do not require citizenship (White Memorial Medical Center, Kaiser Foundation Hospital - Hayward, Long Beach Memorial Med Ctr, Cedars Sinai Medical Center, Silver Lake Medical Center). It's pretty depressing knowing from the get go that applying to competitive residency programs is out of the question leaving you with whats left. Also depressing knowing that which residency you do sort of 'defines' you in what job offers you get and whether or not you get low balled.

So ya please give me insight, in particular KF since Ive read most/all of his posts on immigration lol

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[347932]

KF here to answer your questions!!

Here's how it goes:

You do need a student visa for school. This is relatively easy to obtain BUT you have to prove somehow that you can pay for your whole education in advance. This means you have to be able to show you have a pile of money in the bank. The way I did this was to "borrow" money from a few close friends, put all that money in my bank account, got a statement from the bank, then when I was in the USA, gave all the money back to the people that let me hold it for them.

Once you have a student visa, you can stay in the country until you're not a student anymore. One of the things that you can do (if it is still available, so check on this) is to get an extra year on your student visa (your first year of residency) called an "optional practical training year". My suggestion is to do this, but also to apply for an H1-B1 at the same time. H1-B1s are capped, so only a set amount are given out each year. If your residency is in a large hospital system, they may help you do this, since you need a good attorney to do all the paperwork. A good immigration attorney will guide you through the process and usually for an H1-B1 app, it is a set fee. The fee now is close to $2500, which you will likely have to pay for.

ALL VA residencies require US Citizenship. I'm not sure why others wouldn't allow non-citizens to participate, but I can tell you a very prestigious residency didn't accept me because there was a fear I would take the training and go back to Canada, which clearly was not the case. You may have to deal with that prejudice. It seems they didn't want to give away a residency position on a trainee what wouldn't contribute in the USA, or the fear was that I wouldn't get my immigration issues in check and I would be booted out of the country.

DO NOT under ANY circumstances take the low road and get a J-1 visa. This work visa REQUIRES you to return to Canada for the same amount of time you were out of Canada on that visa, except for some very unique situations. If you are serious about staying in the USA, DO NOT go this way or you WILL get screwed.

Once you finish your residency (assuming you got the optional practical training and two more years on the H1-B1), you have 4 years left to start the Green Card process. Btw, you will have to pay to get your H1-B1 visa transferred (another $2500) to your new employer as the visa is Employer specific. Also, it is recommended to NOT apply for a green card until you have a permanent position, which is why you can't really start the process while you're a resident. Once you get a job as an associate, THEN you can start the process. At this point in the process you also CAN'T open up on your own as you are relying on a sponsor for the Green Card app. Again, you will NEED an attorney to help you, and it is not a set fee. It is generally billed by the hour, and can get VERY expensive. When I totaled up what it cost my wife and I to get green cards, it was close to $60K over a six year period, so get ready to invest in your future.

Since you are not willing to marry an American (Haha - all kidding aside, this is the absolute FASTEST way to get permanent status in the USA), you will have to obtain a Green Card via work, and sadly, your professional status means absolutely diddly squat. The fact that you're a doctor does not mean anything to the INS and they WILL NOT expedite your app under any circumstances because of that. What this means is that you will have to be an employee and make sure your employer is willing to serve as your sponsor and willing to pay you the going published rate for a salary (ask your attorney about this as it's rather complicated to explain - btw this "going rate" is published for attorneys and is available to them for just this purpose) called the "prevailing wage", and is willing to help sign some documents and serve as your spokesperson for your app for a Green Card. This can get dicey as some sponsors can use this as a bargaining chip and abuse the position, however at a certain point in the process, you will no longer require your sponsor as your advocate, so it's a matter of hurry up and wait most times. Hope you have a well respected, honest and helpful sponsor and there really are no problems. The other thing to remember, is even though the H1-B1 is for a total of six years (so 2-3 of residency followed by 3-4 years in practice), if you are part way through your Green Card process, the INS will extend your H1-B1 until a decision is made. The Green Card process is three distinct parts, the first of which is the longest. It is the part where they do all the background checks, cross check all your information and make sure you aren't someone dangerous to national security. Part 2 and 3 can actually occur simultaneously and basically once you're through the first part, you're golden more or less. My app stayed in a box for over two years because of some glitches with a new system they tried to implement as did 200K other apps. They eventually fixed the problem but then had a back log of 200K apps to catch up on, which added another 2 years.

Ultimately, it takes time, diligence, a GREAT immigration attorney and lots of money. I can tell you the process for me was a living nightmare for a variety of reasons, but now that my wife and I have our Green Cards, we can both tell you that it was worth every hardship and every heartache. I was in the USA for 13 years before everything was said and done. IN February it will be 3 years since we got our Green Cards, and we have only 2 more years after that to apply for citizenship which we are both eagerly anticipating. Then, I personally have to wait another 7 years before I can consider running for political office.

Please feel free to ask me any questions about this you like anytime. If I can't answer your questions, call a good immigration attorney and talk to them. Also, I am NOT an attorney and since I've been through the process already I have not really been keeping up with the current trends on this topic, so if you are really interested, spend some time talking to an attorney. Most will talk to you for an initial consultation for free. Also, please realize that as you are going through the process, the rules may change, and the best way to stay current is to employ an attorney who will look out for YOUR best interests.

Good luck!

 

[javajava]

KF here to answer your questions!!

Here's how it goes:

You do need a student visa for school. This is relatively easy to obtain BUT you have to prove somehow that you can pay for your whole education in advance. This means you have to be able to show you have a pile of money in the bank. The way I did this was to "borrow" money from a few close friends, put all that money in my bank account, got a statement from the bank, then when I was in the USA, gave all the money back to the people that let me hold it for them.

Once you have a student visa, you can stay in the country until you're not a student anymore. One of the things that you can do (if it is still available, so check on this) is to get an extra year on your student visa (your first year of residency) called an "optional practical training year". My suggestion is to do this, but also to apply for an H1-B1 at the same time. H1-B1s are capped, so only a set amount are given out each year. If your residency is in a large hospital system, they may help you do this, since you need a good attorney to do all the paperwork. A good immigration attorney will guide you through the process and usually for an H1-B1 app, it is a set fee. The fee now is close to $2500, which you will likely have to pay for.

ALL VA residencies require US Citizenship. I'm not sure why others wouldn't allow non-citizens to participate, but I can tell you a very prestigious residency didn't accept me because there was a fear I would take the training and go back to Canada, which clearly was not the case. You may have to deal with that prejudice. It seems they didn't want to give away a residency position on a trainee what wouldn't contribute in the USA, or the fear was that I wouldn't get my immigration issues in check and I would be booted out of the country.

DO NOT under ANY circumstances take the low road and get a J-1 visa. This work visa REQUIRES you to return to Canada for the same amount of time you were out of Canada on that visa, except for some very unique situations. If you are serious about staying in the USA, DO NOT go this way or you WILL get screwed.

Once you finish your residency (assuming you got the optional practical training and two more years on the H1-B1), you have 4 years left to start the Green Card process. Btw, you will have to pay to get your H1-B1 visa transferred (another $2500) to your new employer as the visa is Employer specific. Also, it is recommended to NOT apply for a green card until you have a permanent position, which is why you can't really start the process while you're a resident. Once you get a job as an associate, THEN you can start the process. At this point in the process you also CAN'T open up on your own as you are relying on a sponsor for the Green Card app. Again, you will NEED an attorney to help you, and it is not a set fee. It is generally billed by the hour, and can get VERY expensive. When I totaled up what it cost my wife and I to get green cards, it was close to $60K over a six year period, so get ready to invest in your future.

Since you are not willing to marry an American (Haha - all kidding aside, this is the absolute FASTEST way to get permanent status in the USA), you will have to obtain a Green Card via work, and sadly, your professional status means absolutely diddly squat. The fact that you're a doctor does not mean anything to the INS and they WILL NOT expedite your app under any circumstances because of that. What this means is that you will have to be an employee and make sure your employer is willing to serve as your sponsor and willing to pay you the going published rate for a salary (ask your attorney about this as it's rather complicated to explain - btw this "going rate" is published for attorneys and is available to them for just this purpose) called the "prevailing wage", and is willing to help sign some documents and serve as your spokesperson for your app for a Green Card. This can get dicey as some sponsors can use this as a bargaining chip and abuse the position, however at a certain point in the process, you will no longer require your sponsor as your advocate, so it's a matter of hurry up and wait most times. Hope you have a well respected, honest and helpful sponsor and there really are no problems. The other thing to remember, is even though the H1-B1 is for a total of six years (so 2-3 of residency followed by 3-4 years in practice), if you are part way through your Green Card process, the INS will extend your H1-B1 until a decision is made. The Green Card process is three distinct parts, the first of which is the longest. It is the part where they do all the background checks, cross check all your information and make sure you aren't someone dangerous to national security. Part 2 and 3 can actually occur simultaneously and basically once you're through the first part, you're golden more or less. My app stayed in a box for over two years because of some glitches with a new system they tried to implement as did 200K other apps. They eventually fixed the problem but then had a back log of 200K apps to catch up on, which added another 2 years.

Ultimately, it takes time, diligence, a GREAT immigration attorney and lots of money. I can tell you the process for me was a living nightmare for a variety of reasons, but now that my wife and I have our Green Cards, we can both tell you that it was worth every hardship and every heartache. I was in the USA for 13 years before everything was said and done. IN February it will be 3 years since we got our Green Cards, and we have only 2 more years after that to apply for citizenship which we are both eagerly anticipating. Then, I personally have to wait another 7 years before I can consider running for political office.

Please feel free to ask me any questions about this you like anytime. If I can't answer your questions, call a good immigration attorney and talk to them. Also, I am NOT an attorney and since I've been through the process already I have not really been keeping up with the current trends on this topic, so if you are really interested, spend some time talking to an attorney. Most will talk to you for an initial consultation for free. Also, please realize that as you are going through the process, the rules may change, and the best way to stay current is to employ an attorney who will look out for YOUR best interests.

Good luck!

If you ever want to start a policitcal rally the SDN DPM forum will support you lol

Anyhow thanks for this reply, its a good overview yet detailed enough for me to understand. Im sure this information will be useful for me as well as another other canadians, austrailians, africans, cambodians, asians and etc who might stumble onto this site

Ya I certianly need to think about the immigration issues, as the last thing I would want to do if I did get a DPM degree is to be exported back to Canada.. I wouldnt mind going back to Canada if the state of practice was the same as America, which doesnt seem like the case to me.

But again thank you so much, as a canadian I never really thought of immigration issues, i bet no one really even considers visa issues. Thanks KF

 

[347932]

Anytime! It's my pleasure to help and if you ever have any other questions either ask them here or PM me anytime. Good luck, and if you ever decide to take the plunge, and need an attorney, I worked with one of the top 10 attorneys in the US. He was pricey, but worth every penny.

 

[javajava]

Anytime! It's my pleasure to help and if you ever have any other questions either ask them here or PM me anytime. Good luck, and if you ever decide to take the plunge, and need an attorney, I worked with one of the top 10 attorneys in the US. He was pricey, but worth every penny.

Ya I certainly have alot to think about, which is going to be hard. But thanks for making it a little easier for me and other internationals.

Now.. who here has a green card they want to sell

 

[FC Omar]

here is a fun extentsion, what if you are an american, you are in pod school, and after school/residency, you want to move to canada. what would you do then? or who would the person talk to?

 

[347932]

here is a fun extentsion, what if you are an american, you are in pod school, and after school/residency, you want to move to canada. what would you do then? or who would the person talk to?

You would talk to a Canadian immigration attorney and believe it or not, getting permanent resident status in Canada is just as difficult.

The easiest way to make that happen is to marry a Canadian .

 

[drgioiadds]

Anytime! It's my pleasure to help and if you ever have any other questions either ask them here or PM me anytime. Good luck, and if you ever decide to take the plunge, and need an attorney, I worked with one of the top 10 attorneys in the US. He was pricey, but worth every penny.

This is a great thread! I'm a Canadian applying to US DO schools this cycle. I did my undergrad in Canada and Dental School in the US with the F1 visa. Dentistry is covered under the TN work visa which is easy to get, but it has to be renewed every 1-3 years. I'm not sure if Podiatry would be covered by TN. I have heard that TN-Green card is more difficult than H1-Green card.

Great post! I'm not sure what I'll do after DO school because I'd like to promote DO in Canada, as well as be in the US.

 

[347932]

This is a great thread! I'm a Canadian applying to US DO schools this cycle. I did my undergrad in Canada and Dental School in the US with the F1 visa. Dentistry is covered under the TN work visa which is easy to get, but it has to be renewed every 1-3 years. I'm not sure if Podiatry would be covered by TN. I have heard that TN-Green card is more difficult than H1-Green card.

Great post! I'm not sure what I'll do after DO school because I'd like to promote DO in Canada, as well as be in the US.

MD, DPM is NOT covered under the TN Visa (This has to do with the North American Free Trade Agreement). Basically if you were an "entertainer" you could get into the US on that visa, but a highly skilled professional (Dentists not withstanding) you have to crutch along. Getting a green card from a TN is a little more complex as you have to get an H1-B1 before you can apply for a Green Card, so it just takes more time.

 

[javajava]

MD, DPM is NOT covered under the TN Visa (This has to do with the North American Free Trade Agreement). Basically if you were an "entertainer" you could get into the US on that visa, but a highly skilled professional (Dentists not withstanding) you have to crutch along. Getting a green card from a TN is a little more complex as you have to get an H1-B1 before you can apply for a Green Card, so it just takes more time.

KF Ive been re reading your excerpt about the visa issues for canadians and I keep wondering why I would need to apply for a optional practice year

Wouldnt just applyng for the H1B1 be fine enough or is it just to be safe

sorry for noob

 

[347932]

KF Ive been re reading your excerpt about the visa issues for canadians and I keep wondering why I would need to apply for a optional practice year

Wouldnt just applyng for the H1B1 be fine enough or is it just to be safe

sorry for noob

There is a cap as to how many H1-B1 visas are given out and it starts over again every October. By the time you find out where you are going for residency, the quota may have been filled already and then you won't be able to start your residency. The optional training year gives you a little leeway in case the cap is reached and also you can apply for the following year immediately and stay in que for the following year's quota.

Another thing is that you want to be able to stay in the country as long as you can. With the optional training, it gives you an extra year to get your ducks in a row. I should have qualified that you have to reach a certain point in your Green Card process before they will extend your H1-B1. It usually takes a couple of years for you to reach that point in the process and there MAY be complications to deal with if your H1-B1 expires before that point is reached. When I say complications, I mean your attorney will have to spend more time filing more papers which will cost you big $$. It is doable, but is really quite a strain.

 

[javajava]

There is a cap as to how many H1-B1 visas are given out and it starts over again every October. By the time you find out where you are going for residency, the quota may have been filled already and then you won't be able to start your residency. The optional training year gives you a little leeway in case the cap is reached and also you can apply for the following year immediately and stay in que for the following year's quota.

Another thing is that you want to be able to stay in the country as long as you can. With the optional training, it gives you an extra year to get your ducks in a row. I should have qualified that you have to reach a certain point in your Green Card process before they will extend your H1-B1. It usually takes a couple of years for you to reach that point in the process and there MAY be complications to deal with if your H1-B1 expires before that point is reached. When I say complications, I mean your attorney will have to spend more time filing more papers which will cost you big $$. It is doable, but is really quite a strain.

Thanks KF for the FREEE advice

 

[347932]

Thanks KF for the FREEE advice

Anytime!

Please make sure that you go over this with your attorney. I'm NOT one (obviously), and things in the immigration realm change very rapidly, so some of what I'm saying here may be outdated. Even though we hate paying them, generally your attorney is there to protect you.

 

[javajava]

msg removed

 

[darazon]

Great post KF. I really learned at lot.

Just doing some research into the Optional Practical Training (OPT). According to University of Wikipedia it has been extended to 17 months to help alleviate problems with the H1-B cap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optional_Practical_Training

When and how do you start applying for OPT? I am currently a 3rd year and would like to get on this without any delay.

Also, do residency programs have any issues with the OPT? What happens if you don't get the H-1B?

Thanks!

 

[347932]

Your school should be able to help you with the OPT questions. I believe it is just a form to fill out on your current student visa app.

That is a very good question about the H1-B1. It has happened which is why some programs shy away from international students/residents. I would hope that you and your attorney can make sure it doesn't happen though. It is avoidable, but you have to stay on top of it.

Here is what I suggest. Extend your student visa as soon as you can. So basically apply to extend it starting on July 1st of the year you graduate (if you can because there might be a time frame in which you have to apply between). Get an attorney and explain the situation. If you need one let me know via PM. As SOON as you match (or scramble), talk to your attorney and get on the process right away. Even if you apply after the cap is reached for that year it immediately puts you in a que for next year's cap.

 

[pottyforce]

sounds complicated

 

[347932]

sounds complicated

You have no idea. It is beyond complicated.

 

[javajava]

Great post KF. I really learned at lot.

Just doing some research into the Optional Practical Training (OPT). According to University of Wikipedia it has been extended to 17 months to help alleviate problems with the H1-B cap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optional_Practical_Training

When and how do you start applying for OPT? I am currently a 3rd year and would like to get on this without any delay.

Also, do residency programs have any issues with the OPT? What happens if you don't get the H-1B?

Thanks!

Hey darazon I remember one time you mentioned you were canadian from alberta (not a stalker)

I have a couple of questions I hope you dont mind answering some or all of them...

Im curious about what you plan to do after you finish your residency? are you going to be staying in USA or Canada, as well which do you prefer?

Do you find that being a canadian is limiting you in your options for residency? Especially for programs which you are heavily interested in?

and do you think prospects are good for canadians going the american podiatry route, especially in terms of paying of the quarter of a million dollar debt

thankssssss

 

[darazon]

Hey darazon I remember one time you mentioned you were canadian from alberta (not a stalker)

I have a couple of questions I hope you dont mind answering some or all of them...

Im curious about what you plan to do after you finish your residency? are you going to be staying in USA or Canada, as well which do you prefer?

Do you find that being a canadian is limiting you in your options for residency? Especially for programs which you are heavily interested in?

and do you think prospects are good for canadians going the american podiatry route, especially in terms of paying of the quarter of a million dollar debt

thankssssss

I not 100% sure what I will do. Before I started school I thought I would be coming back for sure. Now, I don't know. I see the scope that the DPMs in the states have and it is VERY appealing.

As for residency, yes I am extremely limited. It's possible though. I have kept in touch with some of the residencies that I am eligible for and I am doing clerkships at them as well. I just have to me more flexible in where I want to go. I have only found 4 programs in California that will take me. So I have also looked out East.

You can still make a decent living coming back to Canada. You're just not going to have the surgery volume, hospital privileges, and Rx rights you see south of the border. The podiatrist I shadowed once told me he was busy enough and would hire someone right out of residency for 100k. That was back in 2004.

 

[347932]

I not 100% sure what I will do. Before I started school I thought I would be coming back for sure. Now, I don't know. I see the scope that the DPMs in the states have and it is VERY appealing.

As for residency, yes I am extremely limited. It's possible though. I have kept in touch with some of the residencies that I am eligible for and I am doing clerkships at them as well. I just have to me more flexible in where I want to go. I have only found 4 programs in California that will take me. So I have also looked out East.

You can still make a decent living coming back to Canada. You're just not going to have the surgery volume, hospital privileges, and Rx rights you see south of the border. The podiatrist I shadowed once told me he was busy enough and would hire someone right out of residency for 100k. That was back in 2004.

I felt exactly as you did during my time at Temple. After I did three years of residency, it wasn't an option to return to Canada to practice. I just couldn't justify it after the training I received.

I'm not sure why you feel you are so limited in your residency search. Could you explain that in a little more detail please?

Podiatrists do very well in Canada. Particularly if they are good salesman. Not to minimize what they do at all, but many do very well based on orthotics dispensing. If you don't know how to talk a patient into spending $400 on a pair, don't believe in them, or just think it would be difficult for you to make money this way, you may find you won't be as successful as you think up north.

When I was in my last year in residency I interviewed for job at a big practice in Alberta. They claimed they did over a million dollars in orthotics sales a year. They are now under investigation for abuse of public funding or something like that, since in Alberta, orthotics are partially funded by the federal health care program.

 

[347932]

and do you think prospects are good for canadians going the american podiatry route, especially in terms of paying of the quarter of a million dollar debt

I hope you don't mind if I chime in here.

There are plenty of opportunities if you are a good candidate. The thing to be careful with is that once you go into practice you need someone to sponsor you for your Green Card. I chose the wrong person to do this with and life was miserable for a few years, as this person has your immigration status in the palms of their hands and can use it to abuse their position (which mine did in spades). So your employer will have to sign some immigration documents and be responsible to do this for you. Choose wisely, as I didn't

Paying your loans back is the same for everyone. Being Canadian makes no difference in that regard imo. Depending on the exchange rate, you may even come out ahead of the game.

 

[javajava]

Hey thanks for the responses guys. I really like podiatry, its just that documents like this, http://www.albertacanada.com/immigration/media/Podiatrist_Final_revMay2.pdf, showing overall podiatrist earnings is a little scary as I dont want to have to run away from the bank people in Canada if I cant get a green card in america and be miserable since my Canadian scope wouldn't allow me to really practice podiatry

Thanks fellow canadians for giving me more to think about

 

[347932]

Hey thanks for the responses guys. I really like podiatry, its just that documents like this, http://www.albertacanada.com/immigration/media/Podiatrist_Final_revMay2.pdf, showing overall podiatrist earnings is a little scary as I dont want to have to run away from the bank people in Canada if I cant get a green card in america and be miserable since my Canadian scope wouldn't allow me to really practice podiatry

Thanks fellow canadians for giving me more to think about

I'm not going to lie to you. The road to a green card is long and takes a lot of personal and financial sacrifice. I would do it again in a heartbeat though.

You are spot on. You need to be happy with your life choices, BUT you also have to be willing to make potentially serious sacrfices to make your dreams a reality. I've been there and done that, and it's not easy while you're going through and see your American colleagues do well without a clue as to how tough it can be for an immigrant. When the outcome is excellent though, it makes it all the sweeter.

Just to give you a little background too, I'm an immigrant twice over. My family moved to Canada from the middle east when I was a young child, and my first language isn't English. When I moved to the States to go to Temple for Podiatry, even though I speak English well and look like everyone else, being an immigrant is not an easy thing to get through. There is still discrimination and many hurdles to overcome, but again, once you get to the other side, you WILL appreciate your success A LOT more than those who didn't have to do it. The drive to get through and succeed will make you much stronger. Believe me.

As always, good luck!

 

[javajava]

I'm not going to lie to you. The road to a green card is long and takes a lot of personal and financial sacrifice. I would do it again in a heartbeat though.

You are spot on. You need to be happy with your life choices, BUT you also have to be willing to make potentially serious sacrfices to make your dreams a reality. I've been there and done that, and it's not easy while you're going through and see your American colleagues do well without a clue as to how tough it can be for an immigrant. When the outcome is excellent though, it makes it all the sweeter.

Just to give you a little background too, I'm an immigrant twice over. My family moved to Canada from the middle east when I was a young child, and my first language isn't English. When I moved to the States to go to Temple for Podiatry, even though I speak English well and look like everyone else, being an immigrant is not an easy thing to get through. There is still discrimination and many hurdles to overcome, but again, once you get to the other side, you WILL appreciate your success A LOT more than those who didn't have to do it. The drive to get through and succeed will make you much stronger. Believe me.

As always, good luck!

Ya what you say is certainly true, still cant believe you applied for citizenship in TWO countries and got them, must have been extremely stressful (cant even imagine ). But ya thanks KF and darazon for your input. This is potentially one of the most informing threads for international applicants for ALL professions. Thanks for helping and other international forum readers who happen to stumble on this thread from a google search

 

[347932]

Ya what you say is certainly true, still cant believe you applied for citizenship in TWO countries and got them, must have been extremely stressful (cant even imagine ). But ya thanks KF and darazon for your input. This is potentially one of the most informing threads for international applicants for ALL professions. Thanks for helping and other international forum readers who happen to stumble on this thread from a google search

Not a citizen in the USA, yet. You have to wait 5 years once you get your green card to apply for citizenship. Two years and 3 months to go!!

Then 7 years to wait before you can consider running for public office....hmmmm...

 

[darazon]

I'm not sure why you feel you are so limited in your residency search. Could you explain that in a little more detail please?

Sure.

I'll use California as an example. According to CASPR/CRIP there are 23 residencies located in CA. Also according to CASPR/CRIP only 6 of them will take non-US citizens. I've contacted each of these programs individually to confirm their VISA requirements and found that only 3 of them will actually take a student on a H-1B1 visa. The rest said that is was a mistake in their listings. Of those 3, only 2 have a clerkship program for me to go to.

So instead of a 23 available residencies to apply to in CA, I can only apply to 3.

The upside about this is that I don't need to narrow down my choices when it comes to clerkships -they are already narrowed for me!

 

[347932]

Sure.

I'll use California as an example. According to CASPR/CRIP there are 23 residencies located in CA. Also according to CASPR/CRIP only 6 of them will take non-US citizens. I've contacted each of these programs individually to confirm their VISA requirements and found that only 3 of them will actually take a student on a H-1B1 visa. The rest said that is was a mistake in their listings. Of those 3, only 2 have a clerkship program for me to go to.

So instead of a 23 available residencies to apply to in CA, I can only apply to 3.

The upside about this is that I don't need to narrow down my choices when it comes to clerkships -they are already narrowed for me!

Are these VA programs??

Unless these programs are funded by federally funded institutions (not medicare) I'm not so sure they are even allowed to discriminate in that way. Not that you really want to go down that road anyway, but just saying.

It sounds like you are a bit stuck on CA which is fine, but any institution connected to a School/College/University, especially if the teaching hospital has many internships/residencies, is well versed in helping residents get through this immigration process. They may not pay for it for you, but can at least give you some guidance.

Just as an aside as well, doesn't that just suck???

Another story I had in school was that I was told by a fellow student in my class that I should go back to Canada as I took a spot away from one of his "countrymen". I replied that it seems I had better stats and did better in my interview than his "countrymen" or that person would be holding my spot in the class. There are plenty more stories than that, even after our 3 hour "Tolerance" lecture during our orientation!

It goes a little further than that, as I found out after the fact that some programs didn't want to take me as a resident, even though I did better in my interviews than some, because they were afraid that I would take the training and leave the country with it. They didn't want to spend the time training me, only to have me leave. I would have thought the complete opposite. One less colleague to compete with!!!

You live and learn, I guess. It's not easy. Trust me on that one.

 

[javajava]

Another story I had in school was that I was told by a fellow student in my class that I should go back to Canada as I took a spot away from one of his "countrymen". I replied that it seems I had better stats and did better in my interview than his "countrymen" or that person would be holding my spot in the class. There are plenty more stories than that, even after our 3 hour "Tolerance" lecture during our orientation!

Oh gosh thats ridiculous.. Who actually says that lol

 

[347932]

Oh gosh thats ridiculous.. Who actually says that lol

You have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes...

 

[darazon]

Found some good info on visa for residencies. Most of this has been discussed previous, but good info anyway. This was taken from the FAQ section of www.studentdo.ca. Obviously it is tailored for DOs willing to return to Canada, but it is very applicable to us as well.


H1B visa: Best visa to be on as a Canadian for a US residency. Unfortunately, many US residency programs do not offer it, as it is significantly more paperwork than a J1 visa. The requirements for an H1B visa include having graduated medical school, and successful passage of USMLE Steps 1, 2 and 3.

OPT
If you are a US medical school graduate, you can do your PGY-1 year on something called an OPT, which is an extension of the F-1 visa that you used to attend the US medical school. OPT stands for Optional Practical Training, which gives you an entire year to get the USMLE Step 3 completed, as well as apply for, and receive your H1B visa. The H1B visa would then go into effect at the start of your PGY-2 year. This OPT year is key, because otherwise, you would need to graduate med school in May, send in USMLE Step 3 application (requires med school graduation as a prerequisite), take and pass USMLE Step 3 and receive said results, and apply for and receive your H1B visa, all before July 1 in order to start a US internship/residency on time (pretty much impossible).

If you can use the OPT year, then the H1B visa becomes a much more viable strategy. The strategy here is to contact each institution prior to applying there for residency, and see if they offer H1B visas. If not, do not apply there. Note that as the competitiveness of a specialty or its location increases, the likelihood of them offering the H1B visa decreases, since they will fill their spots regardless of whether you interview there or not. Conversely, if you are applying for something like Internal Medicine, Family Medicine, Pediatrics, Psychiatry, etc, all of whom are relatively less competitive and often fill their vacant spots with international medical graduates, you are much more likely to ask for, and receive H1B sponsorship. Intermediate difficulty specialties will be somewhere in the middle in their stance on offering H1B visas.

The H1B visa allows you to be employed in the US, allows you to moonlight during residency, and also is on the pathway to obtaining a green card, which lets you live and work permanently in the US.

J-1 visa
The second option for a Canadian training in a US residency. This visa is a student visa, which means you ca not moonlight on it. Additionally, once you finish your training, there is a home residency requirement, which means you need to return to Canada for 2 years before you can reenter the US on a different visa (such as an H1B visa).

Ways to get around that include working in a federally or state designated underserved area for 3 years, or working in a government institution (such as the VA hospital) for 3 years. Once you are signed up to a J-1 visa, you cannot convert over to an H1B visa without either fulfilling the home residency requirement, or obtaining a waiver through one of the above two mechanisms. Even marrying a US citizen at that point will not get you past the requirement. Of course, if you married that US citizen and got your green card before starting internship/residency, then you would be set and would not need a visa at all...

Alternatively, if you choose a US residency that is recognized as equivalent in Canada, you can take the Canadian Royal College exams, and if you pass them, come back to work in Canada or do a fellowship while simultaneously fulfilling the 2 year home residency requirement. After fulfilling that requirement, if you can find a hospital or private practice group willing to sponsor you for an H1B, then you can reenter the US to work. Otherwise, you can always stay in Canada to practice.

The major advantage of the J-1 visa is that the paperwork requirements are much less, and many more residency programs offer the J-1 versus the H1B visa. The J-1 visa requires Health Canada to issue a Statement of Need. You also need to make use of a US organization called the ECFMG, who will act as your J-1 visa sponsor. The ECFMG paperwork is relatively easy. The Statement of Need can be hit or miss, depending on the specialty you want, and the province from which you are applying.

 

[347932]

Although the above has some good information, it is not altogether accurate. Programs don't "offer" H1-B1, they can't deny you unless they are federally funded like VA programs, where you have to be a US citizen to work there.

Realistically, if you apply and they tell you no because they don't "offer" H1-B1 visas, they may be liable for discrimination. VA notwithstanding.

The real issue is whether they will select you at all. If they just don't select you, there is no way to scream bloody murder, which is basically what happened to me. Some programs shy away from foreigners because of the potential for not getting the app in in time, and then the program being left high and dry with no resident, but this is VERY unlikely unless the resident really doesn't do the due diligence required. At major hospital institutions, this is almost unheard of as they have attorneys on retainer specifically to avoid this. The resident has to pay to get the visa of course, but there are resources for them aplenty.

 

[darazon]

I find a lot of the programs that I have contacted have told me they will accept the J-1, but not the H1-B.

A residency program listen in the CASPR directory. http://www.casprcrip.org/html/casprcrip/pdf/Dir_Pgs/0133.pdf

"Other Applicant Requirements: We do NOT sponsor H1B Visa."

An email I received from Kaiser:

"You are eligible for the clerkship but not for any Kaiser residency unless you have a J visa."

I asked if they would accept the H1-B, and the answer was no.

So what do you do when most of the programs that say they will accept non-US citizens will admit they only will take the J-1?

 

[347932]

I find a lot of the programs that I have contacted have told me they will accept the J-1, but not the H1-B.

A residency program listen in the CASPR directory. http://www.casprcrip.org/html/casprcrip/pdf/Dir_Pgs/0133.pdf

"Other Applicant Requirements: We do NOT sponsor H1B Visa."

An email I received from Kaiser:

"You are eligible for the clerkship but not for any Kaiser residency unless you have a J visa."

I asked if they would accept the H1-B, and the answer was no.

So what do you do when most of the programs that say they will accept non-US citizens will admit they only will take the J-1?

You talk to your immigration attorney about why this is so. This is very fishy to me as I've dealt with major medical institutions and they are no reasonable rules that say which type of visa they selectively can accept. If they accept foreigners, who went to school in the US (non citizens) there doesn't seem to be any reason they shouldn't accept H1-B1 legally. It is likely they got burned in the past with this, but then they can't selectively NOT sponsor your H1-B1 without just cause. It is NOT their decision as to which visa you obtain. It is your. As long as you are in status, they shouldn't care. The only reason I see that they can continue doing this, is likely because they know that a foreigner probably WON'T apply due to this stipulation, and no one has challenged it. I bet if someone would, they would have to change what they told you.

Talk to your lawyer.

 

[347932]

I stand corrected. I spoke to my attorney and it seems that programs CAN selectively decide to ONLY accept J-1s due to the paperwork required for the H1-B1. Wow that really sucks. Sorry for the bad news.