Practice building

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Homo sapien

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I've been reading ( and talking to former classmates and others) about what it'd take to start a practice. Obviously money, but I mean the little details type of things that can make or break your experience. What type of equipment, what type of professionals (accountant, legal, etc), business licensure

So far I've gotten

1. Money to buy/rent a spot
2. Tax ID and business licensure
3. Marketing
.
.
.
7? Podiatry?
 
DPM license

Board Cert of choice

Onboarding with nearby hospitals

Malpractice insurance

Onboarding with insurances- can be done by yourself cold emailing insurances, or through a 3rd party like TIOPA etc
 
My office is so old that I'm kind of useless here, but I'll throw what I can.

1. For the purposes of money you likely need a business plan to get a loan. If you are a resident and reading this and thinking about someday having a practice you should explore this - you can find free business plans online.
2. You need malpractice and you need to make a decision how much you want and the malpractice/liability climate of your state. You can actually do $600k/$200K malpractice, but certain insurances and hospitals will spell out what they expect. I bring that up because I always hear $3/1 million on here, but lower values exist. Claims made vs occurrence.
3. Presumably you'll accept Medicare. Your Medicare PTAN is one of those numbers you don't want to lose / always will have in a file. You technically can set your Medicare IA portal up so others can communicate/speak to Medicare on your behalf but Medicare always acts clueless when we try to do this.
4. Jokingly, every monitor around your office needs a sticky note with your (a) Tax ID (b) Practice NPI (c) and individual doctor NPIs on it because you are going to be constantly providing these to people for referrals, to speak to insurance etc.
5. You'll need a business checking account in your town. It will probably be where you take some of your loans
6. You'll likely need payroll / check writing software and probably some sort of business credit card.
7. Know that Medicare DME is separate from the Medicare process. There's a specific type of beneficiary called Medicare Railroad run through Palmetto and they are a separate process that isn't through normal Medicare.
8. Medicare DME requires someone coming out to your office to check-out your set-up.
9. You need to decide what insurances you are going to accept. There are insurances that will make it miserable for you to drop ie. United tries to make people sign 3 year contracts. You'll have to decide whether you'll take HMOs, Tricare, VA, Medicaid, Medicare Advantage plans, dual completes etc.
10. Some insurances require you to operate at specific hospitals or to be part of specific organizations, ACOs, etc. ACOs sometimes require specific EHRs because they want your data for quality reporting.
11. Insurance companies LOVE LOVE LOVE to offer you a fee schedule, never pay you at the correct rate, and then play dumb when you contact them a year later trying to get your actual loaded fee schedule sorted out. I've had this happen so many times that its clearly an industry regular form of fraud.
12. You need to decide whether you'll start small or have something to grow into. Do you want a larger procedure room where you could have space for fluoro. Do you hope to expand to more people ie. a slave/associate/certified $80K nail cutting nurse.
13. If you are in a free standing building that you own you'll have to maintain the parking lot, plow snow, keep people from falling on ice. If you have landscaping you'll have to maintain it. Some jurisdictions in the US are expanding the requirement for xeriscaping. No grass. Rocks. Desert plants that don't require water. You may need a garage or shed or closet for snow shovels, equipment etc.
14. Your office will need maintenance ie. lights will burn out, toilets will break. You can hire contractors and electricians. There will be handicap requirements. Apparently back in the day my office had a water fountain in the front area. It wasn't ADA compliant and it was cheaper to tear it out. Consider where your bathroom will be ie. will people have to walk through your office to get to it.
15. Phones. Email. Yes, we still use fax machines. If your fax machine just prints then you'll come in every morning with it covered in junk, spam, and enormous garbage referral notes. Consider having your fax machine set to create a PDF email that is sitting in your mailbox.
16. CAQH. You have to maintain it
17. Insurance portals. They are a huge pain in the butt, but a lot of the companies want you to use them. There are so many insurance companies and the same company can have plural portals.
18. You need your own availity login. There is nothing stupider than losing Availity for BCBS because your office manager left and now you are locked out. Same for DME - you need to be the person who owns the account login and the other accounts come from your account - not vice versa.
19. You cannot commit to a crappy overpriced EHR like Athena that won't pursue claims and costs too much. Gotta be lean.
20. You'll need insurance for if people fall down on your property. Consider that everything comes with consequences. My partner owns our office building. He owns beautiful trees that surround it. The trees damaged the concrete walkway surrounding the office and the liability insurance told him he needed to repair the concrete or someone would trip and he'd get sued. Then he wondered if he needed to cut the trees down. We didn't but having the concrete redone cost money.
21. You need to understand safe harbor if you do a 401k.
22. If you want to have a server and firewall and what now you'll need IT. They will want to charge you something ridiculous like$100/computer a month for IT/security/protection etc. Your computers will break. You'll have to decide whether you want to be your own IT person or hire someone. Will you give staffs laptops to walk around with or have computers in every room. Your x-ray company may try to charge you per computer and limit your x-ray licenses so you pay more to show x-rays around your office.
23. You need to find a reliable way to communicate information ie. will you communicate through your website, through facebook business, etc.
24. You'll have to decide whether you'll clean your own office ie. have your MAs do it, you do it, or whether you'll hire someone. There will be regional variations in price. If your MAs worked at another doctor's office that was richer than you - ie. everyone else - they will hate cleaning.
25. You'll need an x-ray machine. You'll likely want to have some sort of mechanism to back it up. To the cloud? Or on site.
26. If you do paper charts you'll need space to store them and you may need to pay to store them offsite somewhere.
27. Quality reporting for MIPS/MACRA bullcrap.
28. If you are selling things ie. orthotics - you'll need space for them. You'll need to store and organize your DME. You'll need space for your injectables. You'll need inventory lists so that your staff can take inventory. You need space for stupid stuff like paper towels and toilet paper, mops, and brooms, and vacuums.
29. Autoclave.
30. If you own your building it may have property taxes.
31. Stupid crap can happen - roofs leak in a room where you store a shockwave machine.
 
The only thing you really need pod-specific is a supplies list...
Get one from successful office or make your own, then tailor it to your own liking.

There are 500 of these checklists online... just google 'checklist for starting a medical practice'.
Not every single thing applies in every state or office, but generals are there.

You'll need a basic training manual for training staff (pics and names of instruments/setups, etc). Fairly common sense.

And yeah, you need employment law relationship, an accountant... yeah. Use them sparingly as they're expensive.
Underestimated is HR consult (same employ attorney... and/or MBA HR trained) for teaching you how to attract and manage, how to ad/interview staff, for writing and proofing the company policy, job descriptions, offer letters, consult on discipline, etc. Pretty critical.
A biller/service is also very key. It is probably the most key thing there is. Ideally, they'll be local (or at least in-state), do the payer credentialing (and re-cred) for you... don't be stupid and try to do that stuff yourself or have it done by your manager/employee (unless you like errors, gray hair, wasted time, future problems, and lost money). You need a basic knowledge/awareness of this stuff, but you're wasting time to ever be in the weeds of it; it's FAR too important and too frustrating to do it yourself.

It's very simple: surround yourself with ppl smarter than you.
From the night cleaning lady to the MA to the biller to the attorney should be solid dependable people.
Win the game by finding elite ppl for various things... and letting those ppl do what they're good at, paying/treating them well for it. 🙂
 
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My office is so old that I'm kind of useless here, but I'll throw what I can.

1. For the purposes of money you likely need a business plan to get a loan. If you are a resident and reading this and thinking about someday having a practice you should explore this - you can find free business plans online.
2. You need malpractice and you need to make a decision how much you want and the malpractice/liability climate of your state. You can actually do $600k/$200K malpractice, but certain insurances and hospitals will spell out what they expect. I bring that up because I always hear $3/1 million on here, but lower values exist. Claims made vs occurrence.
3. Presumably you'll accept Medicare. Your Medicare PTAN is one of those numbers you don't want to lose / always will have in a file. You technically can set your Medicare IA portal up so others can communicate/speak to Medicare on your behalf but Medicare always acts clueless when we try to do this.
4. Jokingly, every monitor around your office needs a sticky note with your (a) Tax ID (b) Practice NPI (c) and individual doctor NPIs on it because you are going to be constantly providing these to people for referrals, to speak to insurance etc.
5. You'll need a business checking account in your town. It will probably be where you take some of your loans
6. You'll likely need payroll / check writing software and probably some sort of business credit card.
7. Know that Medicare DME is separate from the Medicare process. There's a specific type of beneficiary called Medicare Railroad run through Palmetto and they are a separate process that isn't through normal Medicare.
8. Medicare DME requires someone coming out to your office to check-out your set-up.
9. You need to decide what insurances you are going to accept. There are insurances that will make it miserable for you to drop ie. United tries to make people sign 3 year contracts. You'll have to decide whether you'll take HMOs, Tricare, VA, Medicaid, Medicare Advantage plans, dual completes etc.
10. Some insurances require you to operate at specific hospitals or to be part of specific organizations, ACOs, etc. ACOs sometimes require specific EHRs because they want your data for quality reporting.
11. Insurance companies LOVE LOVE LOVE to offer you a fee schedule, never pay you at the correct rate, and then play dumb when you contact them a year later trying to get your actual loaded fee schedule sorted out. I've had this happen so many times that its clearly an industry regular form of fraud.
12. You need to decide whether you'll start small or have something to grow into. Do you want a larger procedure room where you could have space for fluoro. Do you hope to expand to more people ie. a slave/associate/certified $80K nail cutting nurse.
13. If you are in a free standing building that you own you'll have to maintain the parking lot, plow snow, keep people from falling on ice. If you have landscaping you'll have to maintain it. Some jurisdictions in the US are expanding the requirement for xeriscaping. No grass. Rocks. Desert plants that don't require water. You may need a garage or shed or closet for snow shovels, equipment etc.
14. Your office will need maintenance ie. lights will burn out, toilets will break. You can hire contractors and electricians. There will be handicap requirements. Apparently back in the day my office had a water fountain in the front area. It wasn't ADA compliant and it was cheaper to tear it out. Consider where your bathroom will be ie. will people have to walk through your office to get to it.
15. Phones. Email. Yes, we still use fax machines. If your fax machine just prints then you'll come in every morning with it covered in junk, spam, and enormous garbage referral notes. Consider having your fax machine set to create a PDF email that is sitting in your mailbox.
16. CAQH. You have to maintain it
17. Insurance portals. They are a huge pain in the butt, but a lot of the companies want you to use them. There are so many insurance companies and the same company can have plural portals.
18. You need your own availity login. There is nothing stupider than losing Availity for BCBS because your office manager left and now you are locked out. Same for DME - you need to be the person who owns the account login and the other accounts come from your account - not vice versa.
19. You cannot commit to a crappy overpriced EHR like Athena that won't pursue claims and costs too much. Gotta be lean.
20. You'll need insurance for if people fall down on your property. Consider that everything comes with consequences. My partner owns our office building. He owns beautiful trees that surround it. The trees damaged the concrete walkway surrounding the office and the liability insurance told him he needed to repair the concrete or someone would trip and he'd get sued. Then he wondered if he needed to cut the trees down. We didn't but having the concrete redone cost money.
21. You need to understand safe harbor if you do a 401k.
22. If you want to have a server and firewall and what now you'll need IT. They will want to charge you something ridiculous like$100/computer a month for IT/security/protection etc. Your computers will break. You'll have to decide whether you want to be your own IT person or hire someone. Will you give staffs laptops to walk around with or have computers in every room. Your x-ray company may try to charge you per computer and limit your x-ray licenses so you pay more to show x-rays around your office.
23. You need to find a reliable way to communicate information ie. will you communicate through your website, through facebook business, etc.
24. You'll have to decide whether you'll clean your own office ie. have your MAs do it, you do it, or whether you'll hire someone. There will be regional variations in price. If your MAs worked at another doctor's office that was richer than you - ie. everyone else - they will hate cleaning.
25. You'll need an x-ray machine. You'll likely want to have some sort of mechanism to back it up. To the cloud? Or on site.
26. If you do paper charts you'll need space to store them and you may need to pay to store them offsite somewhere.
27. Quality reporting for MIPS/MACRA bullcrap.
28. If you are selling things ie. orthotics - you'll need space for them. You'll need to store and organize your DME. You'll need space for your injectables. You'll need inventory lists so that your staff can take inventory. You need space for stupid stuff like paper towels and toilet paper, mops, and brooms, and vacuums.
29. Autoclave.
30. If you own your building it may have property taxes.
31. Stupid crap can happen - roofs leak in a room where you store a shockwave machine.
God ****

I'm not planning to start anything but I've been thinking about it in general terms. The impetus for me was a classmate I'm friends with who tried and it failed and some of the stuff he told me did or didn't do. Insurance/IT/collections was the big misery for him

Why an x ray? Would you say everyone should just have it or base it on if you live in a robust area with more access to radiology places
 
My office is so old that I'm kind of useless here, but I'll throw what I can.

1. For the purposes of money you likely need a business plan to get a loan. If you are a resident and reading this and thinking about someday having a practice you should explore this - you can find free business plans online.
2. You need malpractice and you need to make a decision how much you want and the malpractice/liability climate of your state. You can actually do $600k/$200K malpractice, but certain insurances and hospitals will spell out what they expect. I bring that up because I always hear $3/1 million on here, but lower values exist. Claims made vs occurrence.
3. Presumably you'll accept Medicare. Your Medicare PTAN is one of those numbers you don't want to lose / always will have in a file. You technically can set your Medicare IA portal up so others can communicate/speak to Medicare on your behalf but Medicare always acts clueless when we try to do this.
4. Jokingly, every monitor around your office needs a sticky note with your (a) Tax ID (b) Practice NPI (c) and individual doctor NPIs on it because you are going to be constantly providing these to people for referrals, to speak to insurance etc.
5. You'll need a business checking account in your town. It will probably be where you take some of your loans
6. You'll likely need payroll / check writing software and probably some sort of business credit card.
7. Know that Medicare DME is separate from the Medicare process. There's a specific type of beneficiary called Medicare Railroad run through Palmetto and they are a separate process that isn't through normal Medicare.
8. Medicare DME requires someone coming out to your office to check-out your set-up.
9. You need to decide what insurances you are going to accept. There are insurances that will make it miserable for you to drop ie. United tries to make people sign 3 year contracts. You'll have to decide whether you'll take HMOs, Tricare, VA, Medicaid, Medicare Advantage plans, dual completes etc.
10. Some insurances require you to operate at specific hospitals or to be part of specific organizations, ACOs, etc. ACOs sometimes require specific EHRs because they want your data for quality reporting.
11. Insurance companies LOVE LOVE LOVE to offer you a fee schedule, never pay you at the correct rate, and then play dumb when you contact them a year later trying to get your actual loaded fee schedule sorted out. I've had this happen so many times that its clearly an industry regular form of fraud.
12. You need to decide whether you'll start small or have something to grow into. Do you want a larger procedure room where you could have space for fluoro. Do you hope to expand to more people ie. a slave/associate/certified $80K nail cutting nurse.
13. If you are in a free standing building that you own you'll have to maintain the parking lot, plow snow, keep people from falling on ice. If you have landscaping you'll have to maintain it. Some jurisdictions in the US are expanding the requirement for xeriscaping. No grass. Rocks. Desert plants that don't require water. You may need a garage or shed or closet for snow shovels, equipment etc.
14. Your office will need maintenance ie. lights will burn out, toilets will break. You can hire contractors and electricians. There will be handicap requirements. Apparently back in the day my office had a water fountain in the front area. It wasn't ADA compliant and it was cheaper to tear it out. Consider where your bathroom will be ie. will people have to walk through your office to get to it.
15. Phones. Email. Yes, we still use fax machines. If your fax machine just prints then you'll come in every morning with it covered in junk, spam, and enormous garbage referral notes. Consider having your fax machine set to create a PDF email that is sitting in your mailbox.
16. CAQH. You have to maintain it
17. Insurance portals. They are a huge pain in the butt, but a lot of the companies want you to use them. There are so many insurance companies and the same company can have plural portals.
18. You need your own availity login. There is nothing stupider than losing Availity for BCBS because your office manager left and now you are locked out. Same for DME - you need to be the person who owns the account login and the other accounts come from your account - not vice versa.
19. You cannot commit to a crappy overpriced EHR like Athena that won't pursue claims and costs too much. Gotta be lean.
20. You'll need insurance for if people fall down on your property. Consider that everything comes with consequences. My partner owns our office building. He owns beautiful trees that surround it. The trees damaged the concrete walkway surrounding the office and the liability insurance told him he needed to repair the concrete or someone would trip and he'd get sued. Then he wondered if he needed to cut the trees down. We didn't but having the concrete redone cost money.
21. You need to understand safe harbor if you do a 401k.
22. If you want to have a server and firewall and what now you'll need IT. They will want to charge you something ridiculous like$100/computer a month for IT/security/protection etc. Your computers will break. You'll have to decide whether you want to be your own IT person or hire someone. Will you give staffs laptops to walk around with or have computers in every room. Your x-ray company may try to charge you per computer and limit your x-ray licenses so you pay more to show x-rays around your office.
23. You need to find a reliable way to communicate information ie. will you communicate through your website, through facebook business, etc.
24. You'll have to decide whether you'll clean your own office ie. have your MAs do it, you do it, or whether you'll hire someone. There will be regional variations in price. If your MAs worked at another doctor's office that was richer than you - ie. everyone else - they will hate cleaning.
25. You'll need an x-ray machine. You'll likely want to have some sort of mechanism to back it up. To the cloud? Or on site.
26. If you do paper charts you'll need space to store them and you may need to pay to store them offsite somewhere.
27. Quality reporting for MIPS/MACRA bullcrap.
28. If you are selling things ie. orthotics - you'll need space for them. You'll need to store and organize your DME. You'll need space for your injectables. You'll need inventory lists so that your staff can take inventory. You need space for stupid stuff like paper towels and toilet paper, mops, and brooms, and vacuums.
29. Autoclave.
30. If you own your building it may have property taxes.
31. Stupid crap can happen - roofs leak in a room where you store a shockwave machine.
Also EHRs pursue claims? I thought the individual has to check and pursue the collection themselves
 
Also EHRs pursue claims? I thought the individual has to check and pursue the collection themselves
There are integrated EHRs that serve as both a scheduler / prescriber / EHR and also a centralized hub for your billing. They take a percentage of your collections to support all of this. New MDs in my area were getting this for like 5-5.5% of collections. PE owned groups can get it for 4ish. My group is over 8%. Its bad. My EHR won't pursue patients ie. call them and ask for money, but they are supposed to be pursuing claims that are trapped in limbo with insurance companies ie. if the claim just sits there and never processes they are supposed to resubmit, appeal, etc. They just don't. Our EHR manager told us "ya'll are doing our work" because we were submitting Medicare secondary payments on our own and we were submitting them faster than our EHR was processing and submitting/pushing through the actual primary Medicare claim. We said - ok, we'll let you do it. And we literally haven't had a secondary Medicare claim pushed through the system since we allowed them to take it over like more than a month ago.

What's funny to me is people on here say - you can never know what your collections are as an associate. You can with Athena. Its very easy to see your collections for any time point. Its just that Athena financially destroys the office with massive overhead costs and minimal effort to pursue stuck claims.

We just had a big stretch where we thought Tricare hadn't paid us in 9 months. Nope - Athena just didn't post the claims.
 
God ****

I'm not planning to start anything but I've been thinking about it in general terms. The impetus for me was a classmate I'm friends with who tried and it failed and some of the stuff he told me did or didn't do. Insurance/IT/collections was the big misery for him

Why an x ray? Would you say everyone should just have it or base it on if you live in a robust area with more access to radiology places
Feli doesn't have an x-ray so it can be done, but I'm of the opinion you have to have it.

Insurances are desperately attempting to reduce reimbursement down to Medicare or less. BCBS for example still pays semi-fairly for procedures, but Medicare or less for E&M.

A 99203 - whatever, easy MSK issue comes in. That visit is $100 essentially with just a visit. Its $130 with one 3-view and $160 with two 3views. You might say - $30 doesn't seem like much, but surviving in PP is all about finding a way to capture each small handful of dollars without overstretching yourself to do it.

I will also tell you - my x-ray is broken right now and people don't appreciate it. They want you to tell them the x-ray says no fracture. You tell them they have arthritis - they want to see the image. When I started out I did the whole - I don't need x-ray thing. I'll only do it when its absolutely necessary. People are looking for an experience. They took time off work and paid a $100 copay to be there. They like imagery. Ortho won't see them without an MRI.

Also - nothing sucks more than opening other people's imagery ie. the patient bringing a disk. If I was opening disks all day I'd jokingly kill myself.
 
Feli doesn't have an x-ray so it can be done, but I'm of the opinion you have to have it.

Insurances are desperately attempting to reduce reimbursement down to Medicare or less. BCBS for example still pays semi-fairly for procedures, but Medicare or less for E&M.

A 99203 - whatever, easy MSK issue comes in. That visit is $100 essentially with just a visit. Its $130 with one 3-view and $160 with two 3views. You might say - $30 doesn't seem like much, but surviving in PP is all about finding a way to capture each small handful of dollars without overstretching yourself to do it.

I will also tell you - my x-ray is broken right now and people don't appreciate it. They want you to tell them the x-ray says no fracture. You tell them they have arthritis - they want to see the image. When I started out I did the whole - I don't need x-ray thing. I'll only do it when its absolutely necessary. People are looking for an experience. They took time off work and paid a $100 copay to be there. They like imagery. Ortho won't see them without an MRI.

Also - nothing sucks more than opening other people's imagery ie. the patient bringing a disk. If I was opening disks all day I'd jokingly kill myself.
My last job didn't have it but we were in metro NYC and radiology places were everywhere. I was under the impression that one wouldn't get it early as they are expensive but if the practice grows then invest in one
 
God ****

I'm not planning to start anything but I've been thinking about it in general terms. The impetus for me was a classmate I'm friends with who tried and it failed and some of the stuff he told me did or didn't do. Insurance/IT/collections was the big misery for him

Why an x ray? Would you say everyone should just have it or base it on if you live in a robust area with more access to radiology places

You will probably want one within a couple years, but you can open without one. For many if in solo practice and are not being creative and taking X-rays way too often it can be more of a break even situation unfortunately.
 
A 99203 - whatever, easy MSK issue comes in. That visit is $100 essentially with just a visit. Its $130 with one 3-view and $160 with two 3views. You might say - $30 doesn't seem like much, but surviving in PP is all about finding a way to capture each small handful of dollars without overstretching yourself to do it.
You're getting paid double for b/l x-rays? My impression was that a 73630 is the same for left/right/or bilateral exams.
 
You're getting paid double for b/l x-rays? My impression was that a 73630 is the same for left/right/or bilateral exams.

So - whenever someone tells you something on here about coding - you really never have any idea what the actual basis is for it.

A few thoughts
(1) The MUE is not 1 - see below.
(2) The description says foot, not feet.
(3) These are radiology codes, not podiatry codes.
(4) I see the individual EOBs from insurance companies.
(5) It might surprise you to learn the MUE for a 76882 is 2.
(6) There are code combinations that don't work together. You can't use calcaneus / toe x-ray codes with foot. Medicare won't pay for ankle and foot combinations, but commercial insurance will pay for 73610 and 73620. They won't pay for 73610 and 73630.




1740594432769.png
 
God ****

I'm not planning to start anything but I've been thinking about it in general terms. The impetus for me was a classmate I'm friends with who tried and it failed...
If you are lukewarm on starting own PP , don't do it.

It's very rare they "fail" (can't be profitable), but many flounder and/or stress the owner out a ton.

The mindset you want to be in is that you've been ready for it awhile, you can run it, you're hungry to be your own boss (but you sometimes have to be in a holding pattern awhile to save up funding or find the right situ to start up or buy out one).
 
So - whenever someone tells you something on here about coding - you really never have any idea what the actual basis is for it.

A few thoughts
(1) The MUE is not 1 - see below.
(2) The description says foot, not feet.
(3) These are radiology codes, not podiatry codes.
(4) I see the individual EOBs from insurance companies.
(5) It might surprise you to learn the MUE for a 76882 is 2.
(6) There are code combinations that don't work together. You can't use calcaneus / toe x-ray codes with foot. Medicare won't pay for ankle and foot combinations, but commercial insurance will pay for 73610 and 73620. They won't pay for 73610 and 73630.




View attachment 399583
Ok, so since I've been misled by a previous employer about this (shocker), how would you hypothetically code a b/l imaging series for flat foot/ankle valgus in order to maximize collections?
 
Ok, so since I've been misled by a previous employer about this (shocker), how would you hypothetically code a b/l imaging series for flat foot/ankle valgus in order to maximize collections?
73610 - ankle instability, or degenerative joint disease, or whatever code best fits
73620 - ideally a separate diagnosis though DJD probably would still fly or perhaps a specific foot diagnosis like bunion or hammertoe.

I personally don't use pain codes - I like an actual diagnosis and I like the ankle x-ray code to associate to something clearly ankle or proximal and the foot code ideally to associate with something foot related.

No modifiers needed in my experience other than RT, LT. The ankle code is slightly higher paying normally by $1-2.

Medicare probably rejects the 73620 and just pays the 73610 - worth trying, but I don't think I'm getting paid on these. I haven't seen a commercial denial.

Some people it would just look like
73610, LT, 1, dx
73620, LT, 1, dx
73610, RT, 1 dx
73620, RT, 1, dx

You could also consider
73610, 50, 1, DX
73620, 50, 1, DX

What somewhat triggered me to explore this was that people were coming to me from hospitals with disks of simultaneous ankle/foot. I thought - are they doing 1/2 of this for free - nope.

73610, 73630 always results in a denial on the foot x-ray. The same patient pays when the 73630 becomes a 73620.
 
If you are lukewarm on starting own PP , don't do it.

It's very rare they "fail" (can't be profitable), but many flounder and/or stress the owner out a ton.

The mindset you want to be in is that you've been ready for it awhile, you can run it, you're hungry to be your own boss (but you sometimes have to be in a holding pattern awhile to save up funding or find the right situ to start up or buy out one).
Yes this is how my brain is. I'm not trying to get extra stress for an idea
 
. You can with Athena. Its very easy to see your collections for any time point. Its just that Athena financially destroys the office with massive overhead costs and minimal effort to pursue stuck claims.
Anyone who uses Athena immediately sees their collections literally tank. Almost bankrupted the last MSG system I worked for. Lost about 40% of collections due to Athena switch. The platform itself is OK for documenting. But collections... yeah.... bad.
 
Anyone who uses Athena immediately sees their collections literally tank. Almost bankrupted the last MSG system I worked for. Lost about 40% of collections due to Athena switch. The platform itself is OK for documenting. But collections... yeah.... bad.
What I tell my staff is that maybe Athena could be good at just being an IT company. You build an EHR. You make it work etc. You focus on actual coders, medical coders, people who understand regulation, physicians and you build something.

The problem is they want a portion of the actual revenue rather than just a monthly service fee and that means dealing with the fact that medical coding is still about about paper EOBs and checks. There's clearly some insurances they are working with where they have to be communicating entirely electronically because the pace of claim resolution is fast. I've seen some BCBS claims resolve in 4 days - not often, but its happened. Otherwise someone is literally hand entering claims and checks and they literally can botch it. My terrible comparison that I don't mean in a political way is - imagine you are facebook and you are coding. Cool. Focus on coders. Now imagine you are policing posts for content. You have to literally hire people to read others posts. Suddenly you've gone from hiring coders to hiring high schools grads or probably people overseas or something. Its inefficient and they are bad at it.

How Athena really truly suck though is that they don't understand insurance companies at all. Insurance companies exist to f&* and destroy doctors. Deny, delay, and underpay etc. The second a claim isn't paid - it means it isn't going to be paid and you have to pursue it and fight. What does Athena do when a claim isn't paid - sets a claim alarm and says - we'll come back to this in however many days. I just found a claim today from 2022 when a patient came back today. Athena never could resolve it and so its just still sitting there - unprocessed. Like literally - never got contractually adjusted, never got pushed to the patient. Its pathetic. Its not even like bad medical debt where the patient refuses to pay. The patient never even got a bill.
 
My office is so old that I'm kind of useless here, but I'll throw what I can.

1. For the purposes of money you likely need a business plan to get a loan. If you are a resident and reading this and thinking about someday having a practice you should explore this - you can find free business plans online.
2. You need malpractice and you need to make a decision how much you want and the malpractice/liability climate of your state. You can actually do $600k/$200K malpractice, but certain insurances and hospitals will spell out what they expect. I bring that up because I always hear $3/1 million on here, but lower values exist. Claims made vs occurrence.
3. Presumably you'll accept Medicare. Your Medicare PTAN is one of those numbers you don't want to lose / always will have in a file. You technically can set your Medicare IA portal up so others can communicate/speak to Medicare on your behalf but Medicare always acts clueless when we try to do this.
4. Jokingly, every monitor around your office needs a sticky note with your (a) Tax ID (b) Practice NPI (c) and individual doctor NPIs on it because you are going to be constantly providing these to people for referrals, to speak to insurance etc.
5. You'll need a business checking account in your town. It will probably be where you take some of your loans
6. You'll likely need payroll / check writing software and probably some sort of business credit card.
7. Know that Medicare DME is separate from the Medicare process. There's a specific type of beneficiary called Medicare Railroad run through Palmetto and they are a separate process that isn't through normal Medicare.
8. Medicare DME requires someone coming out to your office to check-out your set-up.
9. You need to decide what insurances you are going to accept. There are insurances that will make it miserable for you to drop ie. United tries to make people sign 3 year contracts. You'll have to decide whether you'll take HMOs, Tricare, VA, Medicaid, Medicare Advantage plans, dual completes etc.
10. Some insurances require you to operate at specific hospitals or to be part of specific organizations, ACOs, etc. ACOs sometimes require specific EHRs because they want your data for quality reporting.
11. Insurance companies LOVE LOVE LOVE to offer you a fee schedule, never pay you at the correct rate, and then play dumb when you contact them a year later trying to get your actual loaded fee schedule sorted out. I've had this happen so many times that its clearly an industry regular form of fraud.
12. You need to decide whether you'll start small or have something to grow into. Do you want a larger procedure room where you could have space for fluoro. Do you hope to expand to more people ie. a slave/associate/certified $80K nail cutting nurse.
13. If you are in a free standing building that you own you'll have to maintain the parking lot, plow snow, keep people from falling on ice. If you have landscaping you'll have to maintain it. Some jurisdictions in the US are expanding the requirement for xeriscaping. No grass. Rocks. Desert plants that don't require water. You may need a garage or shed or closet for snow shovels, equipment etc.
14. Your office will need maintenance ie. lights will burn out, toilets will break. You can hire contractors and electricians. There will be handicap requirements. Apparently back in the day my office had a water fountain in the front area. It wasn't ADA compliant and it was cheaper to tear it out. Consider where your bathroom will be ie. will people have to walk through your office to get to it.
15. Phones. Email. Yes, we still use fax machines. If your fax machine just prints then you'll come in every morning with it covered in junk, spam, and enormous garbage referral notes. Consider having your fax machine set to create a PDF email that is sitting in your mailbox.
16. CAQH. You have to maintain it
17. Insurance portals. They are a huge pain in the butt, but a lot of the companies want you to use them. There are so many insurance companies and the same company can have plural portals.
18. You need your own availity login. There is nothing stupider than losing Availity for BCBS because your office manager left and now you are locked out. Same for DME - you need to be the person who owns the account login and the other accounts come from your account - not vice versa.
19. You cannot commit to a crappy overpriced EHR like Athena that won't pursue claims and costs too much. Gotta be lean.
20. You'll need insurance for if people fall down on your property. Consider that everything comes with consequences. My partner owns our office building. He owns beautiful trees that surround it. The trees damaged the concrete walkway surrounding the office and the liability insurance told him he needed to repair the concrete or someone would trip and he'd get sued. Then he wondered if he needed to cut the trees down. We didn't but having the concrete redone cost money.
21. You need to understand safe harbor if you do a 401k.
22. If you want to have a server and firewall and what now you'll need IT. They will want to charge you something ridiculous like$100/computer a month for IT/security/protection etc. Your computers will break. You'll have to decide whether you want to be your own IT person or hire someone. Will you give staffs laptops to walk around with or have computers in every room. Your x-ray company may try to charge you per computer and limit your x-ray licenses so you pay more to show x-rays around your office.
23. You need to find a reliable way to communicate information ie. will you communicate through your website, through facebook business, etc.
24. You'll have to decide whether you'll clean your own office ie. have your MAs do it, you do it, or whether you'll hire someone. There will be regional variations in price. If your MAs worked at another doctor's office that was richer than you - ie. everyone else - they will hate cleaning.
25. You'll need an x-ray machine. You'll likely want to have some sort of mechanism to back it up. To the cloud? Or on site.
26. If you do paper charts you'll need space to store them and you may need to pay to store them offsite somewhere.
27. Quality reporting for MIPS/MACRA bullcrap.
28. If you are selling things ie. orthotics - you'll need space for them. You'll need to store and organize your DME. You'll need space for your injectables. You'll need inventory lists so that your staff can take inventory. You need space for stupid stuff like paper towels and toilet paper, mops, and brooms, and vacuums.
29. Autoclave.
30. If you own your building it may have property taxes.
31. Stupid crap can happen - roofs leak in a room where you store a shockwave machine.
Legend
 
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God ****

I'm not planning to start anything but I've been thinking about it in general terms. The impetus for me was a classmate I'm friends with who tried and it failed and some of the stuff he told me did or didn't do. Insurance/IT/collections was the big misery for him

Why an x ray? Would you say everyone should just have it or base it on if you live in a robust area with more access to radiology places

I sold my office x-ray equipment and it was a great decision for me. Many insurance plans stopped paying for office x-rays unless you were a “certified “ radiological facility. I now refer to a local facility and look up results/images on their portal.
 
I sold my office x-ray equipment and it was a great decision for me. Many insurance plans stopped paying for office x-rays unless you were a “certified “ radiological facility. I now refer to a local facility and look up results/images on their portal.
That last statement is how I did it at my last job and it worked just fine
 
I sold my office x-ray equipment and it was a great decision for me. Many insurance plans stopped paying for office x-rays unless you were a “certified “ radiological facility. I now refer to a local facility and look up results/images on their portal.
Didn't know that. Kind of sucks.
 
Is that a common experience for those in PP? Are commercial payers denying in-office x-rays?
 
Having no XR in office really works to your advantage very early on in cold startup (or slow buyout)... see pt, order XRs, they go get XR, see f/u visit for results. The schedule fills faster that way. It gets your name out there to local hospital / imaging places. Obviously less startup cost/staff to not have to buy XR also.

Especially if the XR unit is going to be financed (pay price + interest), better to just get it later on - if it's allowed.
It's usually stupid to take on unnecessary loans and upkeep costs if you can't afford it. That's one of the only ways pod offices can fail.

Once you have enough volume, you want XR if you have space/staff, it's allowed, and it's paid. No brainer.
 
I can’t imagine not having XR in office. I rely on it for pretty much all the info I need before I walk in the room to see the patient.
 
I can’t imagine not having XR in office. I rely on it for pretty much all the info I need before I walk in the room to see the patient.
I don't currently have but I will soon...once you have practiced for a while you will realize how much can be done without it. I don't need it for plantar fasciitis, neuroma....hell a bunion first visit I don't need. I can tell you what surgery I would do without it. Gives them something to think about. Even if want to book ASAP, great go see PCP for clearance get an X-ray at hospital then come back and we will get it scheduled. Post ops? Cool get x-ray before next appt. PT tendonitis? Hammer toe? Flexible I'll do an in-office percutaneous synonymy not flexible we need to go to the operating room and we'll get X-rays before surgery. Achilles tendonitis even with a big ass spur? Still getting a kamboot in a medrol dose pack.... If it doesn't get better sure then I'll get an x-ray. Ankle pain I'm going to inject it with a steroid no matter what. Chronic ankle instability I'm going to get an MRI the x-ray would have done me no good. Literally the only thing you need an x-ray for is after a trauma to make sure something's not broken and that was probably already done in the ER or urgent care. 90 whatever percent of the time X-rays not going to change what you are going to do on the day of the visit.

You treat people not X-rays.

Edit - you are a podiatrist the only trauma you are seeing is the 5th digit bedroom fracture and as long as the toe is straight clinically you don't care about the x-ray.....so there you go zero need for X-ray in office.
 
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I don't currently have but I will soon...once you have practiced for a while you will realize how much can be done without it. I don't need it for plantar fasciitis, neuroma....hell a bunion first visit I don't need. I can tell you what surgery I would do without it. Gives them something to think about. Even if want to book ASAP, great go see PCP for clearance get an X-ray at hospital then come back and we will get it scheduled. Post ops? Cool get x-ray before next appt. PT tendonitis? Hammer toe? Flexible I'll do an in-office percutaneous synonymy not flexible we need to go to the operating room and we'll get X-rays before surgery. Achilles tendonitis even with a big ass spur? Still getting a kamboot in a medrol dose pack.... If it doesn't get better sure then I'll get an x-ray. Ankle pain I'm going to inject it with a steroid no matter what. Chronic ankle instability I'm going to get an MRI the x-ray would have done me no good. Literally the only thing you need an x-ray for is after a trauma to make sure something's not broken and that was probably already done in the ER or urgent care. 90 whatever percent of the time X-rays not going to change what you are going to do on the day of the visit.

You treat people not X-rays.
Yes but you need it so you can explain to them the heel spur is not the cause of the pain
 
Yes but you need it so you can explain to them the heel spur is not the cause of the pain
He also doesnt get paid for the xray - being hospital employed.

When you dont get paid for it. How essential is it?

Usually its not. I dont order that many xrays.
 
He also doesnt get paid for the xray - being hospital employed.

When you dont get paid for it. How essential is it?

Usually its not. I dont order that many xrays.
Isn’t that part of the selling point when pods apply for hospital jobs? Generating money for radiology etc
 
Isn’t that part of the selling point when pods apply for hospital jobs? Generating money for radiology etc
Yeah that's just to get the job. But no money in your pocket.... Although at my new place when I do get it in my office I will get to bill for that but again the flip side is it then decreases your ability to get level fours with data points
 
I don't currently have but I will soon...once you have practiced for a while you will realize how much can be done without it. I don't need it for plantar fasciitis, neuroma....hell a bunion first visit I don't need. I can tell you what surgery I would do without it. Gives them something to think about. Even if want to book ASAP, great go see PCP for clearance get an X-ray at hospital then come back and we will get it scheduled. Post ops? Cool get x-ray before next appt. PT tendonitis? Hammer toe? Flexible I'll do an in-office percutaneous synonymy not flexible we need to go to the operating room and we'll get X-rays before surgery. Achilles tendonitis even with a big ass spur? Still getting a kamboot in a medrol dose pack.... If it doesn't get better sure then I'll get an x-ray. Ankle pain I'm going to inject it with a steroid no matter what. Chronic ankle instability I'm going to get an MRI the x-ray would have done me no good. Literally the only thing you need an x-ray for is after a trauma to make sure something's not broken and that was probably already done in the ER or urgent care. 90 whatever percent of the time X-rays not going to change what you are going to do on the day of the visit.

You treat people not X-rays.
This. It was an adjustment going from a ace where I use my brain to OMG YOU CAN XRAY EVERYTHING
 
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I can’t imagine not having XR in office. I rely on it for pretty much all the info I need before I walk in the room to see the patient.

Most people can be evaluated and treated without foot x-rays. They are most definitely overused. If you have your own equipment then you are probably taking more than necessary.
I used to work for someone that said every time he heard that buzz of the x-ray it was like hearing a cash register go cha-ching.
 
Most people can be evaluated and treated without foot x-rays. They are most definitely overused. If you have your own equipment then you are probably taking more than necessary.
I used to work for someone that said every time he heard that buzz of the x-ray it was like hearing a cash register go cha-ching.
Xrays don't even reimburse much
 
In terms of medical decision making:
I find XR incredibly useful. In addition to diagnosing problems, it's often helpful to know what's not the diagnosis. I suppose we could invoke the Ottawa foot rules, but that means we're just guessing about things. I prefer to XR ulcer patients just to more completely understand the biomechanics of why they are ulcerating. (I still don't XR plantar fasciitis like we argued about a few months ago)

In terms of finance:
It's a $25 imaging study. When we upgraded to full digital a few years ago, I recall I ordered enough XR over the course of a year to cover the $16k price tag, not that I'm suggesting anyone else should or shouldn't be like me. In my Lilliputian world of private practice, the difference between a 99213 and 99214 is about $25 so I'm content to just do the XR myself and downcode the e/m. Really, XR is one of those things that reimburse just well enough to be worth doing but not so well that you go out of your way to look for opportunities to XR people, so whenever I'm curious, I take an XR.

Other Things to consider about having XR in your office, or any diagnostic modality:
-Equipment maintenance and repair
-Tech support for the digital XR software
-State regulations surrounding radiation compliance--licensing, calibrating, safety badges to monitor user exposure
-Storage and backup
it all costs money
 
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