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Practicing Dentists, would you go into dentistry if you were gonna be in debt for 500k plus?

Discussion in 'Dental Residents and Practicing Dentists' started by GOINGBALD42, Mar 14, 2017.

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  1. GOINGBALD42

    GOINGBALD42

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    For those unlucky enough who did not get military scholarship and get into their cheap instate public school experience debt upwards of 450-600k debt. Would you still do dentistry for that debt amount? Assuming you would not specialize and only do general dentistry. Why or why not?
     
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  3. Reality?

    Reality?

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    Response rate in SDN from current dentists is small. I suggest looking in Dentaltown. There are like 5 threads with this question asked in different ways, and answers almost exclusively from dentists who've been around the block for a while. If you don't feel like doing that, the short answer from the overwhelming majority is: no, they wouldn't. 350k max is somewhat of the consensus from posters. A few outliers would still definitely go into it again, mostly because of the value and meaning that dentistry confers, not because of the ROI financially.
     
    PhoenixFire, Flemish and Munks like this.
  4. Screwtape

    Screwtape 7+ Year Member

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    Very few practicing dentists are going to say yes to that question. At some point a dental degree is not worth it financially.
     
  5. Firm

    Firm Member 10+ Year Member

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    H**l no!
     
  6. BTR1208

    BTR1208 5+ Year Member

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    Unfortunately this is reality for A LOT of student currently. We are yet to see how they will be able to handle this debt.

    Common sense says no.. I think you must have a real passion for dentistry to put yourself through that.
     
    smurfeyD likes this.
  7. GOINGBALD42

    GOINGBALD42

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    What is the limit you would go into debt for a dental degree?
     
  8. BTR1208

    BTR1208 5+ Year Member

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    1.5x amount you are expecting to make coming out of school. For most this is around 225-250k.

    On DT the common saying is if you can't do it for 250k it's not worth it. Obviously a lot of people do but that's just the general consensus.
     
  9. BTR1208

    BTR1208 5+ Year Member

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    Ultimately it depends how bad you want to be a dentist
     
  10. GOINGBALD42

    GOINGBALD42

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    Not bad enough where I will be finally debt free in my 50s and having to live in middle of nowhere just to make a living
     
    BTR1208 likes this.
  11. fellowstudent92

    fellowstudent92 2+ Year Member

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    yea f that, find another career--it's a profession at the end of the day, just like anything else. Dispensable.
     
    kidsaremypassion likes this.
  12. ncide

    ncide 2+ Year Member

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    You'll find different answers to this from everyone you ask. Some dentists struggle, some do exceptionally well.
     
  13. beannaithe

    beannaithe Bionerd 10+ Year Member

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    absolutely not. i'm a middle of the road dentist with a middle of the road income. for me, it wouldn't be worth it for more than $250-$275k to be a dentist. repayment rates on the totals you listed would be way too high to make it worthwhile. part of why i went into dentistry was to have a work/life balance. with that amount of debt, there wouldn't be much of one.
     
  14. Big Time Hoosier

    Big Time Hoosier Man. Myth. Legend. 2+ Year Member

    Not a chance.

    Big Hoss
     
  15. kidsaremypassion

    kidsaremypassion 2+ Year Member

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    In tuition alone? Hell No. I would've either gone to med school or nursing school-NP route. Those were not my first choices, but one has to do what they have to do.
     
  16. charlestweed

    charlestweed Silver Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    Yes, if 3 more conditions are also met:

    1. Being a responsible person and a hard worker....no sitting around and whining about the initial low pay job, about long drives to different offices, about treating medicaid patients, about lazy assistants at a corporate office etc. This person is likely to succeed when he/she is ready to start his/her own office. It'll be hard to pay off 500k loan, if you plan to work for someone else forever. You have to have your own office.
    2. Having a happy marriage.
    3. Having a spouse, who also has a full time job and the same good work ethic as him/her.

    Not having to answer to someone above you, being your own boss, and enjoying a long-term job stability are priceless.

    A responsible person would never let this happen to him. He/she usually works part time during the undergrad years and finish school in 4 years, instead of messing around and graduating in 5-6 years. He/she stays with the parents and goes to a local public university to avoid borrowing undegrad loans. If his/her undergrad GPAs and DAT score are not high enough to get accepted to the cheaper state dental school, he/she either makes an effort to join the military or finds other ways to cut costs such as sharing an apartment with 3-4 other roommates, not eating out and getting drunk with friends on the weekends, less shopping, no fancy smartphone, choosing another and cheaper private dental school etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
    hahadino2771 likes this.
  17. comatose

    comatose Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    I would say hell no. For me 200k would be the max I would take out. Someone else said 350k, but that's too much imo. This job is demanding and with salaries decreasing because of decreasing reimbursements among other things, the debt becomes a heavy burden.
     
  18. ballztowallzomfs

    ballztowallzomfs Banned Banned Account on Hold 2+ Year Member

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    You do know math right? Arn't you asian?
    A $500,000 (USC, NYU, and many others are projected well over this amount) loan means a payment of $5754.02 for 10 years. If you got a job making $150,000, your after tax income would be $8,344.77. You would net only $2590.75. Yes, that equates to an income of <$45,000. This is lower than the median household income in the USA.

    I don't know what undergrad you went to, but my state school costs over $34,00o to attend (housing + tuition and fees). Even if I were to live with roommates and eat dirt, the cost would still be around $25,000. Will you please give me a part time job that will pay me that much per year? Pretty please!!! Your smart phone argument is as retarded as jason chaffetz argument that people should stop buying iphones, then they can pay for healthcare. A new iphone costs $650 every 2 years. Tuition cots $68,000 during the same time period.

    Tuition at my instate dental school is projected to be $280k (living with family). Can you please tell me how this is ok? These dental schools are ridiculous in charging so much. It is not that the cost of materials went up so much over the years. This new wave of academic institution welfare will ruin the next generation economy. Instead of me buying a new home, car, products to boost the economy, I have paid it all to academic institutions and will be paying the federal government for the next 10 years.

    Grandpa, you time was different. School was not nearly as expensive and your generation had government letting your refinance your loans a <2%. Use your brain rather than being all folksy.


     
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  19. jda02624

    jda02624 Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Really??? Your reply is racist and condescending. Have some respect or don't reply.
     
    Noice likes this.
  20. charlestweed

    charlestweed Silver Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    As I said earlier, you can't do it alone. You need a lot of helps from your spouse, who can help pay other bills while you are trying to pay off your student loans and setting up your own practice.

    You are right. Things are more expensive now than when I graduated more than a decade ago. Many of my friends graduated from LLU and USC with only 200-250k debt. Their starting salaries, however, weren't as high as they are today....only around $300-400 a day or $80-100k a year. Now, it's around $500 a day, if you practice outside of CA. A new grad associate ortho got paid around 600-900/day 15 years ago. Now it's around 1000-1300 a day.

    We didn't pay off our $450k student loan in 5 years with our income. Our great income allowed us to save money quickly so we could put a down payment for a house. It was the profits from the real estate investments that helped us pay off the student loan quickly. While many had to foreclose on their houses during the 2008 bubble, our stable jobs allowed us to buy foreclosed properties at low prices. Until now, we are still not 100% debt free. The more we invested, the more loans we borrowed. We, however, can breathe a lot easier now.

    Practicing dentistry is not easy and requires a lot of hard work but at least it guarantees job stability. Many of our older friends and classmates, who quit their engineering jobs to pursue dentistry, are happy with their decisions. It's not good to live with a constant fear of getting laid off as one approaches his/her middle-age years and still has young kids to support.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  21. comatose

    comatose Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    I have to disagree here. Dentistry does not guarantee job stability, especially if you remain as an associate. In fact it guarantees job instability if you are an associate. dentists are very fickle and if they don't like one thing about you, you get fired. Work for a corporation and don't produce the numbers they want they'll fire you. Even ownership these days cannot guarantee you success as there's so much competition just about everywhere which is only going to get worse as more graduates are added to the workforce. So I have to disagree here. I know you're Asian and are taught higher education is a safety net but that's becoming less and less true.
     
  22. charlestweed

    charlestweed Silver Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    All dentists are not created equal. Some handle the pressure better than others. Some are willing to work harder than others. Some can perform good dentistry with less than ideal equipment (at a chain) better than others. Some complain about everything. Some work twice as fast and do better quality work than others. That’s why at a chain office, you have a managing dentist who handles all difficult procedures and gets paid 3-4x more. And you have a slower associate dentist, who performs easier less productive procedures. If an associate can’t produce or receives a lot of complaints from patients, he/she has to be let go. I’m sure that slow associate can get another job elsewhere if he/she is willing to look for it. When a middle-aged engineer gets laid off, it’s hard for him/her to find another job.

    Not every private dentist is willing to accept medicaid and offers low fee treatments to expand the patient base. Not every dentist knows how to treat high volume while being able to keep the overhead low. It’s hard to learn to become efficient when you turn away a lot of patients. When you treat a lot of patients, your clinical skills and speed will improve. You’ll be less afraid in dealing with difficult cases. You’ll refer fewer cases to the specialists and have a more successful practice. I think you can learn a lot from working at a busy chain. You won't learn much when you work at a slower pace office with easy schedule such as a community health clinic, a prison, and other types of government-run health clinics.

    That's why I listed the 3 conditions above.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
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  23. Localnative

    Localnative 5+ Year Member

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    agreed.
    despite that crappy debt, press forward with dentistry if:
    you have the mindset to accept all insurances
    can swallow your pride
    grind out those hours, increase your skill level and speed.
    spend some time everyday to learn about your craft - read journal articles, do some online CE. 30 minutes of dedicated time
    work your butt off - combo of maybe one day in your own office to start, maybe a few days at a corporate, with a few days associating with another guy
    don't complain about your commute
    keep that monthly budget in mind at all times
    buy an offlease camry, don't lease a 5 series
    marry someone who won't complain about your weekend hours

    for a number of years I worked OS doing the above, including sundays. not too long ago got rid of the sundays. still the rest of the above.

    if you've got thick skin, a strong stomach and an iron will to succeed you will have a healthier view of debtload. with the right financial guidance you can also save for retirement, buy your spouse a nice anniversary gift, and enjoy some vacay time.
     
  24. GOINGBALD42

    GOINGBALD42

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    man thats disheartening to hear. I always wanted to be a dentist, but the numbers don't make sense to me. It really is between choosing the smart option or choosing my heart. What you recommend?
     
  25. GOINGBALD42

    GOINGBALD42

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    my younger years I was less responsible, but now I am a responsible person. If I don't get military scholarship, I can't justify being 500k in debt making 120k income starting salary. Plus the cost of getting your own practice too. I do want to be a dentist tho, every other options sounds horrible. If dentistry was less then no doubt I would do it.
     
  26. GOINGBALD42

    GOINGBALD42

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    thats a lot of sacrifice, how long will that take? I will be 50 before I am done with paying off that loan. Without a doubt I would do dentistry if I get the military scholarship. without a doubt. I heard its really competitive tho. The question whether to commit with dentistry or not is between heart and brain.
     
  27. comatose

    comatose Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Okay no disrespect to you, but you're not a general dentist. Dentists largely don't accept Medicaid because of the ****ty reimbursements. This job is too stressful to be doing composite fillings for 50 bucks. Not only that but if you choose to accept Medicaid then you have no choice but to be high volume because of the overhead costs. I don't care who you are if you are doing speedy dentistry the quality of the treatment suffers. You're an orthodontist so it's a bit different for you. The treatment general dentists provide requires more hands on skills than an orthodontist. Also many dentists don't accept Medicaid because of the potential for being audited and thrown in jail. I know you accept Medicaid, but not every dentist wants to work like that (high volume dentistry will eventually lead to burnout for most), and just because they don't doesn't mean they aren't a hard worker. Again ortho is different and are better at handling large volumes because of the nature of the work. General dentistry is way different, so you can't compare the two. The OP asked as question, and for the average dentist earning 150k, it just doesn't make sense financially at 500k tuition. You will be digging yourself an early grave.
     
  28. charlestweed

    charlestweed Silver Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    Nah. We choose to work on weekends and late hours because we want to make a lot of money so we can pay down our debts faster. We work at our own office on weekends and we supplement our income with an associate job during the weekdays. That’s double income right there. If the spouse also does the same thing, that will quadruple the income. Many physicians don’t have that choice. When a surgeon and an anesthesiologist get called in at 2am on a Sunday, they can’t say no because a patient’s life is in their hands. An OBGYN has to deliver babies at odd hours on X-mas, New Year, and other major holidays. In addition to working at the office 8 hours a day, many doctors have to work 1-2 more hours at home....filling prescriptions, writing referrals, reviewing lab results, doing dictations etc. Many doctors have to sleep at the hospital and don’t see their families for 1-2 days. One day, my cousin, who is an anesthesiologist, got called in for an epidural at 2 am. He only got paid $200 for that procedure because patient has medicaid. A dentist makes more than that for doing 1 crown prep and nobody wakes him/her up at 2am.

    I’d much rather do all the things that Localnative listed above (well, except for buying an offlease Camry;)….a nice car really makes my daily travel to different offices less stressful) than having to report to a lead or to a supervisor like my old part time busboy and newspaper delivery jobs that I had during my college years. Dentistry = better income, better hours, being your own boss, a more respected profession.
     
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  29. charlestweed

    charlestweed Silver Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    Comatose, I hear you. I used to work as a general dentist (GPR+ moonlight at a medicaid clinic on Saturdays and Sundays). It’s not easy. That’s why I decided to specialize. At least by accepting medicaid, you have something to do instead of sitting around doing nothing and still have to pay rent and staff salaries. At least these low reimbursements help you pay down your debts, especially when your office is new and doesn’t have a lot of patients. Getting paid something is better than zero. When you turn a medicaid patient away, you turn away a potential word-of-mouth referral. If you treat a medicaid patient well, he’ll refer you his friends and relatives, who have good insurance or pay cash. Don’t assume that medicaid patients don’t have money. When they need an implant for a missing tooth, they’ll find ways to come up with the money to pay for it since medicaid doesn’t cover implant. The more patients you treat, the more referrals you’ll get. The more challenging cases you have to deal with, the better and faster dentist you will become.

    As a specialist, I have the opportunity to work with many different GPs, both in private practices and corporate chains. I have a lot of friends (including my own sister), who accept medicaid and are very successful. I’ve seen good and bad dentistry. I can tell you that high end, slow paced, non-medicaid offices don’t necessarily offer better clinical results. There is wide range of clinical skills and honesty. Some dentists are faster and better than others. Some work harder than others.

    I agree with you that it will be hard for a person to make $150k a year as an associate for the rest of his life and faces a $500k student loan. One has to take risk to open an office and makes a lot more than that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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  30. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    If you were to ask me when I first started, I'd be like ,"Hell no..." because of how I would look at it as a lowly associate with minimal income potential. Now, I would say I'd do it, because in our peak years, we can easily pay that off in a year and grants us exclusive rights to practice dentistry within a small subset of the population.
     
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  31. beannaithe

    beannaithe Bionerd 10+ Year Member

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    i'm sorry, but i wouldn't recommend it unless you can get a military scholarship or tuition for less than $250k. these loans go on forever and i can't imagine paying some of these 3-4k loans every month. most dentists make ~$150k as an associate. most of your money will go to loan reimbursement. not to mention, ada dues are ~$2k and malpractice is like $2k. then there's disability insurance, life insurance, ce, etc that you need to pay for on whatever you've got left to live on. this job is too hard to be pulling $40k for 30 years. heck, even 10 years. no matter how much your heart ends up being in it.

    we got hit pretty bad with a drop in insurance reimbursements too this year. it's gone down every year. some insurances are down to as low as $575 a crown now, $65 fillings, $600 dentures and it's dropping every year. the amount of work that you will need to do to pay off your loans is unreal when you're sitting at $600k. there is no part time work or real time off or enjoying the profession. you really can't enjoy the job with a monkey like that on your back.

    i followed localnative's advice to a t when i started working, paid off about $225k of ~$300k. it works, but i burnt myself out after 6 years of doing it. i had a baby and i will admit that i work 'mommy hours' so my income took a pretty hard hit, but there are more important things in life. with a loan payment $1700/month, i have that flexibility. if it were higher, i would've had to hit the handpiece like 2 weeks after i gave birth.

    my advice is get out before you get in.
     
  32. hahadino2771

    hahadino2771 7+ Year Member

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    according to some statistics, average income of dentists are dropping by $4000 a year, and only 3% of dentists can retire by age 60. You know that economy and insurance reimbursement are getting worse every year right? Good luck guys. let's keep up with hard work!

    no wonder why he got banned... no wonder why he is an omfs... what an interesting personality
     
  33. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    Insurances are decreasing their fees, but you're not forced to do every procedure at those rates either. I don't do dentures anymore (finishing up my last cases) unless there's mini implants or superextensive w/ crowns and even then, I am starting to refer those out. I'd take 575 for a crown, but if I can do them in less than an hour (10-15 min chairtime including cementation), and I have a few of those simultaneously, then your profitability significantly increases, even moreso when combined with RCT.. Lowest fillings I've seen are $89 for BCBS, and those are for occlusals. Main thing is just being more efficient either through practice, materials, or all. Example would be a 20 min MO,MOD,DO back to back. that's about 300 dollars at the worst reimbursement rate but they can be juggled with other procedures or used as a gap filler if you can same day that patient into ops (lets say one cancels).

    If you are an associate with a stagnant payrate throughout your entire career, yes, you will definitely have a hard time, but if you find a fair associateship or start own your office, you will definitely make more than 150k/yr. One of the financially limiting factors that I see with new and recent grads is having kids and family - I can't relate because I don't have any. My colleagues are having to limit themselves due to location, spousal demands of not working weekends, etc... but life's depressing if you think about being a financial slave for 30 years.
     
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  34. GOINGBALD42

    GOINGBALD42

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    Yeah, do you think the whole concept of working for yourself having your own hours and not working for someone else worth it? I wanted to be a dentist for awhile but the numbers don't add up for me, so its between heart and brain. The brain portion says to go with PA is less appealing for me and the numbers seem right. I would mainly do PA because its the smart career choice. After working various jobs I realize that work is work at the end of the day, you gotta do something that pays the bills. Work, save up money, and invest in other ventures for financial freedom which is my ultimate goal. The main reason why we go through the schooling and debt is so that we can live a better life and live comfortably. That is what my brain tells me while my heart for dentistry is that it fits my personality and all. What do you guys think of that philosophy on life?
     
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  35. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    It all depends on the lifestyle that you want. As a PA, you won't have as much as income potential as a DDS/DMD and you're more likely going to have to work longer to achieve the same result. You should do what you love to do, and make tons of money too... They aren't exclusive of each other, and debt should never scare you unless you were stuck in a low paying associate job for the rest of your life. I think a lot of the assumptions here are that we would stay an associate for 30+ yrs. Freedom is faster achieved through dentistry. I don't think you can retire in 10 years from being a PA, but you can as a DDS/DMD
     
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  36. Big Time Hoosier

    Big Time Hoosier Man. Myth. Legend. 2+ Year Member

    ?!

    Big Hoss
     
  37. oceanv

    oceanv

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    I am on the same boat here. I just decided to study prereqs for dental school with my heart for dentistry but my head is still debating and unclear about the debt I will have 5 to 6 years from now. I am working as an engineer to keep the income while studying. I am aiming for UCLA or UCSF as my state school and scholarships. Sometimes, my head tells me to take the chance and go for it so I can focus on studying. Sometimes, the indebtedness thought keeps coming back!
     
  38. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    Don't be afraid of the debt, it's good debt in that the ROI is much much greater than your initial investment. Now if you got dental school debt without the degree or lost your license, then you're screwed. Cash flow can be hard in the first year or two, but the rewards are significantly larger than what you put in. That's a common theme I see in the forums is the fear of debt, but everyone should see that we're not minimum wage workers and we have the advantage of the profession that doesn't require that much time (4 yrs dschool and you're done unless you specialize) vs medical school, and you'll probably make more than your MD counterparts + a headstart + less stress.

    I don't know how much PA's make, but I would guess that its nowhere near a dentist's income. If you were concerned about monthly payments, pay as little as much as you can through refi or other income based repayment programs until you can get your income up.

    Key points: Dental school debt is good debt (not like you blew it on drugs, gambling, etc...) , you'll make more than most other professions, it'll pay in the long-term, more potential, and retire earlier.
     
  39. gatorfan99

    gatorfan99 10+ Year Member

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    Debt that comes from educational expenses (that produce high paying jobs) are potentially good debt - but when you are talking about over 500,000 dollars, then its predatory debt - You are literally screwing yourself, I'm sorry. Think really really carefully about what you are about to do - you are setting yourself for huge, life changing trouble potentially here...
     
  40. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    I suppose there is a point here... minimize your debt as much as you can, BUT if you only got into one school and you're going to accumulate 500k+ in debt, go for it. As I mentioned before, the doomsayers make the assumption that you're going to be an associate forever at 120k/yr. If that's the case, then don't go into dentistry. Even then, it's not like you're majoring in Art History or something equally(financially) useless. The worst part is the accumulate dental school level debt w/o getting a degree.

    Case in point: You will make 500k many times over your professional career. Think of it like a membership fee to do dentistry. If you don't have to spend 500k, then don't. If you have no other choice, take the plunge. It'll force you to become a productive dentist or starve to death.
     
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  41. cacazor

    cacazor 2+ Year Member

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    What are your productions/overheard like that's letting you collect 500k in revenue?

    The last time some boasted that high of a salary on DT turned out to be committing medicaid fraud.

    Anchorage dentist charged with Medicaid fraud, ‘unlawful dental acts’

    Not saying you are committing fraud but those are some ungodly production numbers as a GP.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  42. Medin2017

    Medin2017

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    He didn't say that was his revenue, just that you'll be making 500k many times over (as in a multiple of that, not just annual). But in his AMA I believe he mentioned he had 2 mil in productions annually if I recall correctly.
     
  43. cacazor

    cacazor 2+ Year Member

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    Wow that is a **** ton of dentistry that's being done.
     
  44. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    Dentist
    As previous poster said, see the AMA for 2016 (I think 2.8 w/ 55% - too lazy to refer back to thread), and if you're relatively new to the profession, 500k might seem a lot. You're not the only one who would be suspicious. I've been audited before by insurance companies without any problems. The key is to take photos, demonstrate with radiographs, and document. Sometimes, the hardest to document is cracked tooth syndrome especially if there's no radiographic evidence of fracture, only thing you have is percussion/palpation/hot/cold/EPT tests, but if you document your findings, tell the patient to call their insurance company to bitch at them, you'll get approval.

    The government is a whole different story... almost guilty until proven innocent. That's why I don't take medicaid/medicare. You don't want to be made an example of, even if you have done nothing wrong. Waste of time, money and resources. The article is interesting, and just an example of gross negligence. However, there's always two sides to the story. They should crackdown on medicaid here in Texas. Too much shady stuff going on, but I'm sure if I spearhead something, I'll probably get shot down here.

    Anyway, the important key point is that its easy to make lots of money through dentistry even though we got a lot of naysayers. That's the whole point of the thread... is it worth it? YES!
     
  45. Rainee

    Rainee 7+ Year Member

    884
    203
    Mar 31, 2010
    Probably not. The return on income is not guaranteed. What I mean by this is:

    Dentistry income is more governed by:
    1) Ability to lead
    2) Ability to manage
    3) Ability to talk to people
    4) Ability to be a good businessman.

    Dentistry income is not so much governed by:

    1) How well you can actually do the dentistry.

    Any person can hold the drill, but do you have the personality, the business sense, the ability to talk and sell treatment? I know alot of classmates that are great clinically but have TERRIBLE, flat, personalities that will just be average. And I know a few that aren't the best dentist but EVERYONE loves them and they make a better living.

    Dentistry is an interesting field. If you want stability go to a different profession, because to make top $ here you have to have a certain set of qualities.
     
    maga1994 likes this.
  46. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

    313
    433
    Jul 21, 2004
    Dentist
    +1 - this is definitely true! A patient only knows what they feel. Was the interaction pleasant with the dentist? Did the dentist hurt you? How does it feel in my mouth? Did it fall apart or break?

    These are the primary questions that must be addressed with each patient unless you don't want to see them again (and there are some of those that you don't). Sometimes, a dentist must be Jekyll and Hyde, depending on the type of patient you want to retain.
     
  47. GroverPsychMD

    GroverPsychMD Probationary Status Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

    2,788
    882
    Sep 12, 2010
    Physician
    My medical school loans are paid over 30 years. That decreases the payment per month...
     
  48. WingZeroM3

    WingZeroM3

    10
    5
    Jun 11, 2017
    My loans are over 350K. No military scholarships or anything. I am on staff at a local hospital. Loans will be wiped out in 3 more years under PSLF program.
    So I will be debt free by 39. Worth it? Yup my DDS is worth it.
     
  49. Big Time Hoosier

    Big Time Hoosier Man. Myth. Legend. 2+ Year Member

    Better be praying DC doesn't change PSLF between now and then. How are you going to feel if out of fiscal reality forgiveness is capped at $50,000 like President Obama had proposed?

    Big Hoss

    Edit: Capped at $57,000 - the max one could borrow for an undergrad degree.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
    free99 and Str82th like this.
  50. PTSD

    PTSD New Member 10+ Year Member

    16
    11
    Jul 28, 2006
    PSLF has been written into promissory notes issued for govt loans. This arguably makes it part of a contract that cannot be unilaterally changed by congress as would otherwise be possible thru legislation. Trump, who is hard core on the issue, has proposed to end the program but grandfather those who already will qualify.
     
  51. Big Time Hoosier

    Big Time Hoosier Man. Myth. Legend. 2+ Year Member

    Simplest way for DC to work around this thorny issue is to change the tax rules pertaining to the forgiven balance to have it considered taxable income, as with the other income based repayment plans. Tax bomb, anyone? Technically, your loans were still forgiven as "promised." Something like 10x the number of people are planning on PSLF than originally planned, so it's costs are going to be out of control! Gear up for Washington to get its money one way or another. Mr. Average Joe American Voter will not be happy to absorb the cost of healthcare professionals' exorbitant student loans while he is earning a mere fraction of what they are. The PSLF "doctor loophole," as it is called, will be closed.

    Big Hoss
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
    free99 likes this.

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