Pre-dent bitterness toward USC

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Luna724

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Hi fellow SDNers,

Today I was looking through the interview feedback for the USC school of dentistry and I should say, some people really really hate the dental program offered there! For those of you guys who went to the interviews recently and saw the program for yourself, does the bitterness speak for itself or what's really going on in this school? I have an interview coming up next Tuesday and all these hateful comments against the school is starting to freak me out :scared:
 
Hi fellow SDNers,

Today I was looking through the interview feedback for the USC school of dentistry and I should say, some people really really hate the dental program offered there! For those of you guys who went to the interviews recently and saw the program for yourself, does the bitterness speak for itself or what's really going on in this school? I have an interview coming up next Tuesday and all these hateful comments against the school is starting to freak me out :scared:

Dun mind others, it is a great school. Just follow through with the interview and see if you and USC works out. Best of luck
 
Hi fellow SDNers,

Today I was looking through the interview feedback for the USC school of dentistry and I should say, some people really really hate the dental program offered there! For those of you guys who went to the interviews recently and saw the program for yourself, does the bitterness speak for itself or what's really going on in this school? I have an interview coming up next Tuesday and all these hateful comments against the school is starting to freak me out :scared:

I didn't think USC was too bad. PBL is not for everyone, but the clinical curriculum seems top-notch and the location in So-cal is pretty awesome. Only downside is the huge pricetag, but aside from that I think you could definitely do worse than SC.
 

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The 2 dentists I shadowed both told me that graduates from USC didn't seem to know what they were doing when they were trying to hire new associates for their practice.
 
I didn't think USC was too bad. PBL is not for everyone, but the clinical curriculum seems top-notch and the location in So-cal is pretty awesome. Only downside is the huge pricetag, but aside from that I think you could definitely do worse than SC.

That area in so-cal is soooooo scary! totally hood! The pricetag sucks but if its the only school then go there!
 
That area in so-cal is soooooo scary! totally hood! The pricetag sucks but if its the only school then go there!

Lol no it isn't. People over exaggerate so much about USCs location. Just don't go out alone late at night. That rule generally applies to all of Los Angeles though.
 
USC is soooo expensive. If that was the only place you got in and you have to take loans, you just reapply.
 
Funny how I met someone at my lecom interview and he hated his interview at USC lol
 
USC is soooo expensive. If that was the only place you got in and you have to take loans, you just reapply.

No, this is terrible advice.

A reapplicant who turned down an acceptance will have a big red flag on their application UNLESS there is an extremely good explanation.

"USC is soooo expensive" is not a good explanation at all. If someone does not want to attend a certain school, even if it is the only school that person gets into, then they should NOT apply to the school or withdraw their application before acceptance.
 
No, this is terrible advice.

A reapplicant who turned down an acceptance will have a big red flag on their application UNLESS there is an extremely good explanation.

"USC is soooo expensive" is not a good explanation at all. If someone does not want to attend a certain school, even if it is the only school that person gets into, then they should NOT apply to the school or withdraw their application before acceptance.

Personally I think the argument of "USC is soooo expensive", phrased differently and more intelligenetly is a very sound reason to not attend USC. There is a breaking point when a DDS/DMD does not make financial sense.

But I do concur, if a person knows that he or she will not attended an institution if accepted, do not apply and save your app money.
 
There's a thread about a guy who turned down NYU to move to Texas and apply there. Also a thread over on dentaltown about a hygenist who got into USC and turned it down b/c of the 500K pricetag. If you turn it down because of price, you wouldn't be the first and I'm sure you won't be the last.
 
I had the same cautious mind when I went to interview at USC last week. I found out that I loved the school and what it has to offer. Compared to other schools, you have no problem finding patients at USC! The school finds them and assigns them to each student. The school has a very large pool of patients, and sometimes has to turn down some, according to one of the dental student there who sat with me during lunch. Also, it's clinically very strong and that became very apparent as I spoke more with the dental students. I honestly thought it was worth the money, as current dental students there think so too. I don't know why people downgrade USC so much. First time pass rate for NBE I was 96% last year, and the dean threw a party for the students.

It's just.... so expensive. After the financial aid presentation during the interview, I couldn't walk straight during tour because I was so shocked at the price. But I loved the school..
 
If USC is a school that you would turn down because of its price tag... why are you applying there in the first place????? That's the REAL question! Do your research.
 
Cold Front,
If you are reading this thread...would you chime in?

thanx
 
I actually have spoken to quite a few dentists who graduated from USC and they ARE working their butts off to pay the student loans. But I do not think that should deter applicants away from the school, because they are EXCELLENT as far as in their alumni networking and their reputation as one of the top private universities in California (I was going to say football team, but errr).

I think it ultimately comes down to personal choices, whether you value what makes an "economical sense" or becoming a "USC dentist."

Sure, their tuition is RIDICULOUS, but sometimes you have to pay a little more price to achieve a dream.

From what I heard, they get enough patients (although they do have to get up early to reserve your "chair"), and some students do stay after graduation to finish their requirements for like 3 months or so. But they have an excellent program and their faculties are very very good I hear.

My suggestion for the OP would be, don't make up your mind before going in, just listen and see it for yourself, AND make a decision that suits YOU.

Good luck.
 
Thanks for all the great insight 🙂
 
I actually have spoken to quite a few dentists who graduated from USC and they ARE working their butts off to pay the student loans. But I do not think that should deter applicants away from the school, because they are EXCELLENT as far as in their alumni networking and their reputation as one of the top private universities in California (I was going to say football team, but errr).

I think it ultimately comes down to personal choices, whether you value what makes an "economical sense" or becoming a "USC dentist."

Sure, their tuition is RIDICULOUS, but sometimes you have to pay a little more price to achieve a dream.

From what I heard, they get enough patients (although they do have to get up early to reserve your "chair"), and some students do stay after graduation to finish their requirements for like 3 months or so. But they have an excellent program and their faculties are very very good I hear.

My suggestion for the OP would be, don't make up your mind before going in, just listen and see it for yourself, AND make a decision that suits YOU.

Good luck.

It comes down to whether or not you understand the full implications of taking out 500k in loans...
 
It comes down to whether or not you understand the full implications of taking out 500k in loans...

I do not want to sound as if I am defending USC, but people who have a complete understanding of the full implications of the huge student loan may choose to attend USC for one reason or another.
 
It comes down to whether or not you understand the full implications of taking out 500k in loans...

I should say, there are people out there who have HPSP scholarship in the back of their mind even before applying to dental schools, including myself. So yes, I agree with saintguitar that there are people who have a thorough understanding of the implication of having to pay 'extraterrestrial' sum of student loan and still be able to decide on schools of their choice without being chained by huge tuition.
 
Not trying to offend you but this is complete BS.

Every Adcom today is very aware of the debt situation. By far, more than any attending students. I can give two real examples for post-graduate, where the student applied and was accepted into a prosthodontic program. Turned it down in favor of a GPR because the program was too expensive. Applied the following year to different programs and was accepted at a VA program that paid her.

If you get accepted, and realize that the financial pressure is a very real concern, you can withdraw your application and there will be no backlash. It's a very fair reason.

Getting into 400k+ debt is extremely stupid, TBH. I wouldn't have gone into dentistry if I had that kind of debt. Today I have 340k debt from my pros training and virtually nothing from my dental school training and I'm finding it a very real struggle. My opinion is if you can't do it for under 300k you shouldn't be doing it.

No, this is terrible advice.

A reapplicant who turned down an acceptance will have a big red flag on their application UNLESS there is an extremely good explanation.

"USC is soooo expensive" is not a good explanation at all. If someone does not want to attend a certain school, even if it is the only school that person gets into, then they should NOT apply to the school or withdraw their application before acceptance.
 
It's actually not complete BS. I consulted with a family member who is on a medical school adcom before I typed my response. Yes, every adcom is aware of the the debt situation, but that does not mean that turning one school down and immediately reapplying is a great idea.

I agree that getting into serious debt is not a good idea, but that is something an applicant needs to educate him/herself on before he/she applies.
 
I should say, there are people out there who have HPSP scholarship in the back of their mind even before applying to dental schools, including myself. So yes, I agree with saintguitar that there are people who have a thorough understanding of the implication of having to pay 'extraterrestrial' sum of student loan and still be able to decide on schools of their choice without being chained by huge tuition.

HPSP students do not take out 500k in loans...
 
HPSP students do not take out 500k in loans...

I think he's saying that HPSP will cover your entire tuition, no matter how much the cost. I too have applied for the HPSP scholarship. Going to find out next week if I got it! :xf:
 
If you don't mind PBL, love the area, want to go to amazing football games, and have a great experience at your interview, then you should go. Go wherever you're gonna be most happy, I mean you're going to be there for years... You're going to be paying back loans regardless. IMO paying more for school and enjoying it would be better than paying less and hating it.
 
Not trying to offend you but this is complete BS.

Every Adcom today is very aware of the debt situation. By far, more than any attending students. I can give two real examples for post-graduate, where the student applied and was accepted into a prosthodontic program. Turned it down in favor of a GPR because the program was too expensive. Applied the following year to different programs and was accepted at a VA program that paid her.

If you get accepted, and realize that the financial pressure is a very real concern, you can withdraw your application and there will be no backlash. It's a very fair reason.

Getting into 400k+ debt is extremely stupid, TBH. I wouldn't have gone into dentistry if I had that kind of debt. Today I have 340k debt from my pros training and virtually nothing from my dental school training and I'm finding it a very real struggle. My opinion is if you can't do it for under 300k you shouldn't be doing it.

There are very few programs that are less than 300k including living expenses. Maybe when you were in dschool that was possible.
 
Fight On for ol' SC
IBR!
Our men Fight On to victory.
IBR!
Our Alma Mater dear, looks up to you
IBR!
Fight On and win for ol' SC
IBR!
Fight On to victory. Fight On for IBR!
 
It's actually not complete BS. I consulted with a family member who is on a medical school adcom before I typed my response. Yes, every adcom is aware of the the debt situation, but that does not mean that turning one school down and immediately reapplying is a great idea.

I agree that getting into serious debt is not a good idea, but that is something an applicant needs to educate him/herself on before he/she applies.

🙂. And I used to interview applicants for both undergraduate and postgraduate. So I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. While what you posted might be true for medical it's not for dental school.

While i dont advocate immediately re-applying I do understand that the decision doesn't become real until you've been accepted. Further, situations can change between interview date and acceptance date.

In any case, for prospective students - if finances aren't being seriously considered, you are going to have a very real struggle in the 'real world' when you have to start paying down that debt. IBR isn't a very good solution either. Any amount forgiven is taxable and that could he a large sum.
 
🙂. And I used to interview applicants for both undergraduate and postgraduate. So I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. While what you posted might be true for medical it's not for dental school.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but interviewing =/= making decisions on applicants. I'm not trying to offend, just curious. 😉

I think an accurate point would be to admit that you cannot speak for every adcom instead of attempting to put my posts down. I'm sure that this is not the most important factor in the actual re-application, but to say that it's BS and that it's not ever taken into account is much too general a statement IMO.

The mere fact that AADSAS asks applicants to list schools from previous application cycles and whether someone was accepted or enrolled means that information is there. Beyond that, I don't think anyone can say for certain how it's used other than the admissions officers. I did my due diligence to try to get the info from the horse's mouth, and even though the process is not exactly the same for medical and dental school the reasoning I was given was one that wasn't strictly tied to whether someone was a medical school or a dental school applicant.

In the end, I believe what you're saying is true if one compares expensive private school to their state school, but becomes less and less true when one compares expensive private school vs expensive private school.
 
In any case, for prospective students - if finances aren't being seriously considered, you are going to have a very real struggle in the 'real world' when you have to start paying down that debt. IBR isn't a very good solution either. Any amount forgiven is taxable and that could he a large sum.

In terms of the harsh 'real world', would you consider the HPSP program to be a 'financially sound' decision for any prospective dental students? I understand how some people cannot even bare the thought of taking orders from an authority but it's either that (getting kicked around for 4 years but with the benefit of having zero debt in the end) or 'hopefully' paying off the debt within next 5-10 years practicing. I am personally surprised by relative lack of interest in HPSP among fellow SDNers 😕
 
I am personally surprised by relative lack of interest in HPSP among fellow SDNers 😕

Joining the military in any fashion is not something to be taken lightly.
 
In terms of the harsh 'real world', would you consider the HPSP program to be a 'financially sound' decision for any prospective dental students? I understand how some people cannot even bare the thought of taking orders from an authority but it's either that (getting kicked around for 4 years but with the benefit of having zero debt in the end) or 'hopefully' paying off the debt within next 5-10 years practicing. I am personally surprised by relative lack of interest in HPSP among fellow SDNers 😕

I agree...it's rather surprising. But that just means less competition for me so i'm not complaining...and neither should you 😉
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but interviewing =/= making decisions on applicants. I'm not trying to offend, just curious. 😉

I think an accurate point would be to admit that you cannot speak for every adcom instead of attempting to put my posts down. I'm sure that this is not the most important factor in the actual re-application, but to say that it's BS and that it's not ever taken into account is much too general a statement IMO.

The mere fact that AADSAS asks applicants to list schools from previous application cycles and whether someone was accepted or enrolled means that information is there. Beyond that, I don't think anyone can say for certain how it's used other than the admissions officers. I did my due diligence to try to get the info from the horse's mouth, and even though the process is not exactly the same for medical and dental school the reasoning I was given was one that wasn't strictly tied to whether someone was a medical school or a dental school applicant.

In the end, I believe what you're saying is true if one compares expensive private school to their state school, but becomes less and less true when one compares expensive private school vs expensive private school.

I had no say whatsoever in who got accepted, or interviewed for the undergraduate dental program. I did, however, see every dossier on all the applicants to the post graduate program and had a much more active role there.

My honest opinion is that you're fear mongering a little. You're getting these guys to second guess every decision. Fundamentally, the most sound decision has more to do with the cost of education than any other factor. Especially since a state school can be almost half the cost of a private school. Now this trend is starting to change and state school tuitions are going up dramatically. But as a doctor who has very real debt and has to pay them off, my sense is that at the level of the debt some/many of these kids graduate with, it's not worth it. The debt will not just be a burden to your personal life, but also impede your professional career. You may have an opportunity to work in an amazing office. The pay may not be great up front but over the course of your career it might be amazing... if you have huge student loans, you won't be able to consider these practices. Instead, these guys have to jump into a practice where they need to make money and fast. Guess what. That means either a chain, or other form of high volume low reimbursement practice.

Now if you're not in dental school, or haven't graduated, none of this is your 'reality'. But I know plenty of people who are stuck in such a boat. Especially in the north east where the cost of living is so high.

If my only choice was USC or don't go to dental school, and my expected loans were to exceed 400k, I'd choose not to go to dental school. The other thing no one has mentioned in this thread (that I'm able to see) is that the loans you take out are accruing interest during the 4 years of dental school, with the exception of the subsidized loans. So your 400k is actually closer 450k once you graduate, or even higher.

If you go the IBR route, your payments are manageable, yes, but I'm not terribly comfortable with my loans actually getting bigger every year instead of smaller. Interest payments on a 400k loan is 2300+/mo alone. If your first year out you're only making 80k or 100k, you're only going to pay about 1000/mo. That extra 1300k is still accruing every month.

I don't know, for all the work you go through to become a dentist and to be compensated so poorly because of student debt, there are better ways to make a living and other ways to help people without becoming impoverished yourself.
 
In terms of the harsh 'real world', would you consider the HPSP program to be a 'financially sound' decision for any prospective dental students? I understand how some people cannot even bare the thought of taking orders from an authority but it's either that (getting kicked around for 4 years but with the benefit of having zero debt in the end) or 'hopefully' paying off the debt within next 5-10 years practicing. I am personally surprised by relative lack of interest in HPSP among fellow SDNers 😕

I think this and the military option are an amazing solution and should be taken advantage of while they're still being offered. Especially for someone who ends up at USC or Tufts or NYU, or one of the many super-expensive schools.
 
In the end, I believe what you're saying is true if one compares expensive private school to their state school, but becomes less and less true when one compares expensive private school vs expensive private school.

I didn't read this part of your post when I read your post, so let me address this briefly.

Superficially, you're right. It doesn't apply. But I'd like to think my post would prompt the people in those position to really address what their debt and lifestyle will really be like and the consider what their alternatives might be. Either in the form of a public health scholarship, military scholarship, borrowing from family, or even as much as moving to a state where they can attend an in-state college. I think if you have to take out 400k+ in loans you have to really very deeply think about that and really decide if you can make it work. Some people can take out that loan and go on to start a chain of dental clinics (one of my friends did) and make upwards of 1.5-2m a year. Someone else might become extremely dissatisfied with their career and become bitter about the debt and have it affect the rest of their lives.
 
I don't know, for all the work you go through to become a dentist and to be compensated so poorly because of student debt, there are better ways to make a living and other ways to help people without becoming impoverished yourself.

I think at this point everyone is too invested in the Dentist route to go back. Yes, the burden of student debt for a dental student/recent graduates may be too much and it will take years to pay off. But what are our other options? Try to find a job with a Bachelor's degree in Science (for most people)? Waste another year and apply to grad school? Find a different healthcare profession?
 
I think at this point everyone is too invested in the Dentist route to go back. Yes, the burden of student debt for a dental student/recent graduates may be too much and it will take years to pay off. But what are our other options? Try to find a job with a Bachelor's degree in Science (for most people)? Waste another year and apply to grad school? Find a different healthcare profession?

I guess that is why so many schools are obsessed with having students demonstrate their 'commitment' either in their PS or during interviews. It got to the point where becoming a dentist for the sake of becoming one ain't so smart of a choice anymore.
 
My honest opinion is that you're fear mongering a little.

I don't think I am. I've considered other things too, such as that getting into dental school is getting more competitive every year, and that there are no guarantees that a state school will offer an acceptance the second round someone applies--Goodness knows I have seen cases of this for people who apply to my state school. Or that the person may be in the same boat of only getting an acceptance to an expensive private school the next year.

Everyone has to make their own decisions, but I still think that turning down an acceptance is an unwise decision if someone wants to be a dentist. I'll just agree to disagree with you on that. I don't disagree with the things you've said about debt, however. I do think that people should think critically about the financial decisions they are making before they are made.
 
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