Pre-dental course load, what's possible and what's just nuts?

[2th Doc]

So I'm trying to finalize my schedule and get everything in order so I know when I need to take the DAT/apply, etc. These are pretty much all the remaining classes I need. I'm very determined to finish up in order to start dental school in 2012, but my counselor is worried that taking two chemistry classes together (winter 2011) is a big problem, and then the spring summer classes I have selected will be "very difficult," likely compromising my grades and thus my chances for getting accepted. I bring this to you guys because I feel like the counselors I've been working with have been less than helpful, so I'm looking for opinions from people who have gone down the path and can provide opinions from recent experience. I've been taking 6-10 credits per term/semester for about a year and a half now, so I have yet to experience a full 14+ credit schedule. However, my wife just recently graduated so now I will be able to quit my job and go full time. I feel that I can deal with a "very difficult" schedule, and my family is willing to support me in that. However, I'm not sure where the line is between what is doable, and what is simply unachievable by any standard. I just need some input from those of you who know what these classes are like.

Fall 2010
BIO 220A (Bio Diversity Animals)
STAT121 (statistics)
CHEM 105 (General College Chemistry)
HUM 202 (humanities)

Winter 2011
MMBIO 240/241 (Molecular Bio)
STDEV 439 (application prep)
CHEM 351 (OChem 1, CHEM 105 listed as prereq.)
CHEM 106/107 (General College Chem. cont'd w/ Lab)
BIO 494R (2cr) (Independent research)

Spring 2011 (DAT#1)
PDBIO 362/363 (Adv. Physio)
PWS 340 (Genetics)

Summer 2011 (DAT#2 if needed)
CHEM 352/353 (OChem 2)
REL C 234 (religion)

Fall 2011
BIO 220B (Bio Divers. Plants)
BIO 494R (2cr)
ENGL 312
MATH 119

Winter 2012
BIO 350 (Ecology)
HIST 201
REL C 333
BIO 420/421 (Evolutionary Bio)
BIO 370 (Bioethics)

My counselor basically suggested I take all my science classes in Winter/Fall, and sprinkle in the few electives in spring/summer, but that puts me graduating in Winter 2013, setting my plans back an entire year. I really don't want to do that (being 25 years old and only a soph. in undergrad I already feel behind the time curve), but if it makes the difference between getting accepted or not, I suppose we'll have to do whatever it takes.

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[UndergradGuy7]

Listing the course numbers does not tell us much about the course. I have no idea is CHEM 106 is, etc.
Give course title or description.

If CHEM 106/107 is general chem/lab then how are you able to take organic before finishing general chem?

 

[2th Doc]

Listing the course numbers does not tell us much about the course. I have no idea is CHEM 106 is, etc.
Give course title or description.

If CHEM 106/107 is general chem/lab then how are you able to take organic before finishing general chem?

Sorry, missed that one. 105 and 106 are both general, 107 the lab, but CHEM 351 only lists chem 105 as prereq so I'm under the impression that taking 351 with 106/107 should be okay as far as prereqs are concerned.

 

[aelian]

I think you have a respectable schedule. It should not be difficult seeing that you are taking about 2-3 sciences per semester. General chemistry and organic chemistry will be completely different subjects so it should not be a problem seeing that you will have already taken gen. chem 1 during Fall 2010. It will make it easier but taking the two simultaneously will not be a problem. I think you may have skimped out on some of the higher, harder bio electives. I like that you are taking advanced physiology but where is your anatomy. I know you would prefer not to hurt your GPA but I think it would really help you to take the classes in place of something like ecology and evolutionary biology or bioethics (oddly enough, I have taken all of those classes). The dental schools would still like to see you take classes such as biochem, Anatomy, physiology(which you are going to take), micro, histo, neuro, endo. So no, your course load is not bad. Remember, once you get to dental school, you are going to be taking close to 24-30 hours. Courses such as biochemistry will be taught in 6 weeks as opposed to the semester it takes to be taught in undergrad. As far as studying for the DATs, it looks like you may be pushing it by taking O. chem II in the summer and taking the DAT. It isn’t required that you have already taken the course but it will make it easier. I would suggest that you start studying now, even 30 minutes a day, just to study ahead because it looks like you will be packed with school. Your grades will be very nice. Anyway, challenge yourself and don’t worry about age.

 

[UndergradGuy7]

Well, I would say it is possible, BUT it really depends on you...
You said you are 25 and a sophomore. So are you behind because of a career change or because you were slackin off the first couple of years and then dropped out?

If you have taken college classes/science classes are you the average person? Or are you near the top of the class? Do you study a lot or are you lazy and just get by? Do you like science or would you rather write essays in english class? Your counselor assumes you are the average person getting C's in classes. If you are not that average person, then sure you can handle it.

Most people on here have taken honors/AP chem/bio/etc in high school. So taking gen chem and orgo at the same time would not be a problem. Have you ever taken gen chem? Are you good at it? If you are the average person and not good at chem, then you might not do as good as you'd like. You will also spend a lot more time studying than someone who likes chem/is in the top of the class always.

So for winter 2011...
Some people will fail gen chem, but ace ochem and say ochem is easy because its mostly concepts and memorizing without any math. Gen chem is lots of concepts and word problems. Ochem is concepts and memorizing.
All biology classes are memorizing. So you have 3 big classes full of memorizing. Possible? Yes. Hard? Yes, time consuming. I don't think it matters if you finish gen chem before taking ochem. They are not that related.

As for spring, physiology is lots of memorizing. But it is about the human body (I assume) so it should be interesting. Not like memorizing facts you are uninterested about. 2-3 classes. Seems OK.

Summer... again ochem. Lots of memorizing in ochem2. All reactions mostly. Since it is in the summer you will have to memorize it in a shorter time frame. Do-able.


So I guess it comes down to you. Do you think you can handle it? Can you study for most of the day? For me, I think I would be able to handle that schedule.
If the classes seem too hard, then you can just drop in 3 weeks before the deadline and get the refund. Then do your other plan, graduate in 2013.


Also, why is there no spring 2012? You do know all dental schools start school in August (fall). So graduating in the winter 2012 will not do you any good. Why not spread some more stuff out to spring 2012? Then graduate in May, spring 2012.

 

[2th Doc]

Thanks for your guys' responses. I appreciate the great informative feedback.

Well as far as the electives, those were all suggested by my counselor and I just put those in. I completely missed the fact that there was no anatomy or other major courses. This is something I'll have to look at closer. For my BS I need 14 electives, 6 from organismal and 6 from bio processes, and two from whatever else. I'm not exactly clear on what classes fit those categories so I'll have to research that more.

As far as being 25, after high school I took two years off, then went on a church service mission for 2 years, got married shortly after returning, and waited about a year and a half to get into school. I got involved in a business venture right before I got married, but once I realized that was going south after about a year, that's when I decided for myself that a solid education was the path for me. There hasn't been much slacking since I enrolled though. I've managed to work full time, take 10 credits fall/winter and 6 spring/summer and currently have a 3.93 GPA.

I've really only had one bio class, physiology and developmental bio 120. I loved the class, much more than the last two physics classes I've taken. With some minor struggling, I pulled an A- out of the bio and first physics, and with this physics now I should get an A or A-. I am worried about taking two chem classes with molecular bio, but that looks like the worst semester, and I'm committed to pushing through it. I am a great at memorizing and have found methods that work very well, so I'm confident that I can memorize what needs to be. However, I've never had any chem, so that adds to my worries. As far as dropping the classes if they seem too hard, I'm curious how a schedule full of Ws on one semester would look on an application? Assuming worst case scenario I bombed all the classes.

I ended the schedule in Winter 2012 because somehow I was still thinking I needed to add 10 more credits of bio electives for my major, and I would fit those in over spring/summer... however after aelian pointing out my bio electives currently (350/370/etc), I realized that I had forgotten that those were actually electives. With my counselor putting them in my grad plan I had just taken them as requirements, when I should have well known that they weren't. This does free up the final spring/summer semesters for the most part I think, but the main cram comes with preparing for the DAT in time for applying in 2011. From now until Summer 2011 I'm not sure what else I could do with the schedule since all the classes seem to be DAT prep classes. The only two I'm not sure about would be Molecular Bio and Genetics, I'm not sure how relevant those are to the DAT. If not so much, I could move Molecular to post-DAT to free up the Winter 2011 mess, and moving genetics could help put ochem2 earlier to give me more leeway with DAT timing. How relevant are those classes to the DAT?

Personally I think I can do it, and I definitely don't want to draw this out another year. I've done much better with these "hard" physics class than I expected, and same with the PDBio 120. I realize taking 3-4 major classes all together is harder than anything I've yet done, but I certainly haven't maxed out my studying capabilities with these slimmer schedules either.

 

[2th Doc]

Sorry, scratch the whole BIO 350/370 elective talk... all the classes that are listed are actually requirements for the BS major at BYU, and they don't double count for my organismal/processes electives like in the case of bioethics. So I still do need an additional 10 credits of electives from those two areas in spring/summer 2012, with the 494Rs making the final 4 credits.

 

[slm266]

Looks like you go to BYU. Some of your class choices looked sketchy, so PM me your phone and i'll give you a call.

 

[UndergradGuy7]

As far as dropping the classes if they seem too hard, I'm curious how a schedule full of Ws on one semester would look on an application? Assuming worst case scenario I bombed all the classes.

Not sure about your school, but at mine you have like the first 2-3 weeks to decide if you want to stay in the class. You can drop before the deadline and get a full refund and not get a W. You only get a W if you drop after the deadline, like in the middle of the semester. I have never done it, but lots of people do. They come in see the syllabus, see what the class and professor is like, then if they think its too hard they drop it.

 

[2th Doc]

Not sure about your school, but at mine you have like the first 2-3 weeks to decide if you want to stay in the class. You can drop before the deadline and get a full refund and not get a W. You only get a W if you drop after the deadline, like in the middle of the semester. I have never done it, but lots of people do. They come in see the syllabus, see what the class and professor is like, then if they think its too hard they drop it.

Oh yes, I forgot there is an early add/drop deadline @ BYU. It's only two weeks in fall/winter, and one week for spring/summer. I suppose that's always a plan B option.

 

[Polka Dot]

You won't want to take Chem 107 and MMBio 241 together. I took 107 in winter, and I am taking 241 this fall. They are both labs.
Definately take PDBio 220 before 361. I'm a PDBio major, and I hate the counselors.