Pre-lim Surg vs. Pre-lim Med vs. TRI (from DO Match)

[insertgenericusername]

A non-competitive stats-wise speaking (i.e. bottom half of class and multiple board failures) osteopathic medical student here, trying to figure out which route out of these 3 options is the best option for me for my PGY-1. Also, if someone can explain the benefit of actually doing a Pre-lim Surg or Pre-lim Med year, that would be really helpful to me as well. Also, why are Pre-lim Surg years so notorious in terms of their reputations as opposed to other PGY-1 options? Like if I do a Pre-lim Surg year as a PGY-1 status, does that mean that if I somehow enter a surgery residency the following year, that I am award PGY-2 status, meaning I am equal to a second-year surgery resident? or do I have to restart that surgery residency as a first year surgical resident? And is the same true for Pre-lim Med year status as well, like if I do Pre-lim Med year as a PGY-1, can I hop into an open second year standing spot of an IM residency the following year?

Also, as an osteopath, we have numerous TRI (traditional rotating internship) spots and other specialties like fam med and IM leftover that have spots left to scramble into after the osteopathic match, so should that be a priority for me to try to get into as opposed to the concepts of Pre-lim IM or Pre-lim Surg years?

I know these are a lot of questions, but at this point, I need a lot of help and education about this process to see what my options are for this current residency cycle. Thanks in advance if you took the time to read and understand all of these questions.

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[ThoracicGuy]

A non-competitive stats-wise speaking (i.e. bottom half of class and multiple board failures) osteopathic medical student here, trying to figure out which route out of these 3 options is the best option for me for my PGY-1. Also, if someone can explain the benefit of actually doing a Pre-lim Surg or Pre-lim Med year, that would be really helpful to me as well. Also, why are Pre-lim Surg years so notorious in terms of their reputations as opposed to other PGY-1 options? Like if I do a Pre-lim Surg year as a PGY-1 status, does that mean that if I somehow enter a surgery residency the following year, that I am award PGY-2 status, meaning I am equal to a second-year surgery resident? or do I have to restart that surgery residency as a first year surgical resident? And is the same true for Pre-lim Med year status as well, like if I do Pre-lim Med year as a PGY-1, can I hop into an open second year standing spot of an IM residency the following year?

Also, as an osteopath, we have numerous TRI (traditional rotating internship) spots and other specialties like fam med and IM leftover that have spots left to scramble into after the osteopathic match, so should that be a priority for me to try to get into as opposed to the concepts of Pre-lim IM or Pre-lim Surg years?

I know these are a lot of questions, but at this point, I need a lot of help and education about this process to see what my options are for this current residency cycle. Thanks in advance if you took the time to read and understand all of these questions.

What do you want to do? Whatever it is, why not try for a categorical position rather than a prelim position? I would probably concentrate on the DO match rather than ACGME if you have multiple COMLEX failures...

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

TRI or Pre-lim Med >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.................... Prelim surg

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Your post is confusing. If you're talking about this cycle, you should have applied months ago for interviews. Did you? And if so, for what? And how many interviews did you attend?

 

[AMEHigh]

I'm confused.

I assume you mean what you should if you don't match?

For a DO it's absolutely in your best interest to do a TRI at a hospital of the specialty that you are trying to match in to.
Yes, you can get a pgy2 spot after a TRI year if the place you're matching in to has an opening for a pgy2 spot and feels you are capable of being at the pgy2 level.

 

[insertgenericusername]

Your post is confusing. If you're talking about this cycle, you should have applied months ago for interviews. Did you? And if so, for what? And how many interviews did you attend?

I did not receive any interviews this cycle so far because I had not passed my comlex 2 exam until just recently. From what I understand, it's pretty much too late now as of today at least to be receiving any interviews for any specialty whatsoever, whether it be the DO match or MD match. Correct me if I'm wrong in terms of that assumption though. That said, I am very open minded in terms of any specialty that will let me scramble into it after the osteopathic match day is over tbh

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I did not receive any interviews this cycle so far because I had not passed my comlex 2 exam until just recently. From what I understand, it's pretty much too late now as of today at least to be receiving any interviews for any specialty whatsoever, whether it be the DO match or MD match. Correct me if I'm wrong in terms of that assumption though. That said, I am very open minded in terms of any specialty that will let me scramble into it after the osteopathic match day is over tbh

If you don't match or scramble into something, see if your school will allow you to delay graduation until next year so you can apply as a med student rather than a graduate...

 

[insertgenericusername]

If you don't match or scramble into something, see if your school will allow you to delay graduation until next year so you can apply as a med student rather than a graduate...

Why is it disadvantageous to apply as a "graduate" as opposed to applying as a "medical student" status?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Why is it disadvantageous to apply as a "graduate" as opposed to applying as a "medical student" status?

You are given an additional red flag if you aren't a current student. Plus you can continue to get clinical experience abd do some audition rotations to try and make a good impression...

 

[235009]

I did not receive any interviews this cycle so far because I had not passed my comlex 2 exam until just recently. From what I understand, it's pretty much too late now as of today at least to be receiving any interviews for any specialty whatsoever, whether it be the DO match or MD match. Correct me if I'm wrong in terms of that assumption though. That said, I am very open minded in terms of any specialty that will let me scramble into it after the osteopathic match day is over tbh

Your primary goal now should be to scramble into any categorical DO spot right after the match is over. Focus on FM, psych, and IM programs. Only after you've exhausted all those options should you look into prelim and TRI positions.

The MD match is completely out of the question at this point.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I agree with the Tornado of Meat's advice above, while I snack on my salami from my Harry and David gift box. With multiple COMLEX failures, your chances in the MD match are very poor. Your goal should be to get a Categorical position in the DO scramble. If you have not registered with the AOA match, you should do so immediately. The AOA match results are released on Feb 8. You should clear that day's schedule now (and perhaps the next day also). This will be 150% of your focus. You will want to try to get a categorical spot, one that you are expected to complete all years of training. You do not want to participate in the match again if possible -- even with a passed COMLEX II this time, you may find it difficult to get interviews if you have multiple failures.

To answer your other questions:

1. Getting a prelim IM or GS spot is probably your next best choice, if a categorical position is not obtainable. These are 1 year contracts, and then you will need to look for further training -- so you'll end up back in the match next year (which is not easy, your residency program is unlikely to give you lots of time off for interviews) or you'll be hunting for non-match spots. If you complete a prelim IM or GS year, then yes, you can theoretically get a PGY-2 position in the same field. But realistically, many surgical prelim's end up simply trying to match again and have to repeat their PGY-1, and not very many PGY-2 IM positions open up. Hence, you really want a categorical spot to avoid all of this if possible.

2. Be careful with surgical prelims. They can be long, miserable years. No one may care about you and your training at all. You may be seen as a disposable intern -- no one will care if you get any OR time, nor whether you ultimately are successful. They can be brutal.

3. If you can't get a categorical position in the AOA scramble, and either have trouble getting a prelim position or simply decide not to and delay to try again next year, then the question of whether your school will let you stay for another year is worth considering. It is often mentioned on this board that being a new grad is better for matching than being a previous grad. That is true -- if you look at the numbers, the match rate is higher for new grads than previous grads. But this may be one of those causation vs correlation issues. Previous grads may do worse in the match not because they are previous grads, but because they come with other baggage -- they were not competitive enough to match the first time, they now have less funding, PD's see them as fickle, etc. But there is the benefit of having fresh clinical experience (where if you graduate in June and have no GME position, you'll just be sitting around or working at Starbucks), and the more clinical experience you have might help balance out some of the problems in your application. Of course, this is likely to cost you another year of tuition so you'll need to decide whether that makes sense, and your school might not even let you do it at all.

 

[jason.lafluer]

Are PGY-2 prelim surgery years any less brutal the PGY-1's? Is there any graduated difference between the two?

 

[235009]

Are PGY-2 prelim surgery years any less brutal the PGY-1's? Is there any graduated difference between the two?

There's no such thing as a PGY2 prelim spot. Prelim spots are by definition PGY1.


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[jason.lafluer]

No, general surgery has PGY2 prelim positions

Yeah, that's what I've been seeing. Anybody know if those are more mild than a PGY-1 prelim year?

 

[235009]

No, general surgery has PGY2 prelim positions

Yikes! Nevermind. I'll stick to what I know.

 

[gutonc]

Yeah, that's what I've been seeing. Anybody know if those are more mild than a PGY-1 prelim year?

Why would you think that? As with pretty much every specialty, while the hours and mountain of scut may decrease slightly as you rise up, the responsibilities and expectations increase even more dramatically.

 

[SXMMD]

Is this guy still trolling? @jason.lafluer

 

[rokshana]

Are PGY-2 prelim surgery years any less brutal the PGY-1's? Is there any graduated difference between the two?

you are not going to get a PGY-2 spot...even for a prelim pgy2 they are going to ask for input form your PD...you really think he is going to recommend you for one?

did you EVER call the girl?

 

[Siggy]

I'm confused.

I assume you mean what you should if you don't match?

For a DO it's absolutely in your best interest to do a TRI at a hospital of the specialty that you are trying to match in to.
Yes, you can get a pgy2 spot after a TRI year if the place you're matching in to has an opening for a pgy2 spot and feels you are capable of being at the pgy2 level.

That's not entirely true. For IM, for example, you can only get up to 6 months credit for non-IM residency training.
...and if a residency decides to do that, they now have to deal with an off track resident.