pre-matching???

[countryboy75]

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Ok here is my quick morning report version of my situation: I was born and raised in the midwestern U.S. graduated from a U.S. university, ran into some difficulties with the loss of my best friend in college and ended up at a caribbean med school after meeting a precepting physician from my current medschool at a Hurricane Katrina relief clinic I volunteered at as an EMT. Initial goal was to become a rural family practitioner, played around with the idea of surgery but both of those took a back seat to psychiatry after my core rotation in the field. My present goal is to be a rural psychiatrist and do a mix of inpatient and outpatient with some ECT included in the practice.

I am now out on the interview trail for psychiatry residency and have come across some programs I like and some I would put lower on my rank order list. In any event, I have been offered second interviews at some programs that I like as well as a month long externship at a program I like. The buzz around me is the whole idea of pre-matching; I have not been offered one yet but I believe it is on the horizon (from what residents have told me).

Are there any boundaries that I should look out for and not cross while discussing pre-matching?

If you are offered a pre-match do they usually have a now or never attitude about it or do they allow you to visit other programs before hand?

Has anyone on here been offered a pre-match then gone ahead and waited for the March match?

Does anyone have any regrets about pre-matching?

 

[strawberryfield]

I am curious about this as well, though as a DO applicant.

At several of my interviews, PD's have said "If you really want to come here at the end of the season, let me know and we can do something about it." I haven't felt an overwhelming sense of pressure from any, but I am curious if others have done this and what their happiness/outcomes have been. Obviously I'm not going to be signing anything until I have had all of my interviews! 😳

 

[BabyPsychDoc]

There was a thread on the General Residency forum a while back, where it was discussed that there is normally some sense of urgency in pre-match. Otherwise, what would be the point from the program's point of view?

My question is: how binding the prematch really is? I recall reading on the same thread that someone accepted pre-match and did proceed with the Match, matching somewhere where s/he preferred. Now, if the applicant could bail out of pre-match like that what is stopping the program to do the same? I would hate to be dumped like that.

 

[Sneezing]

You can't bail on a prematch contract. If you sign a contract you are committed. A contract is a contract is a contract. The contracts aren't any different than the one you would sign post NRMP match.

 

[cleareyedguy]

Are there any boundaries that I should look out for and not cross while discussing pre-matching?

If you are offered a pre-match do they usually have a now or never attitude about it or do they allow you to visit other programs before hand?

Tact and timing are important in both therapy and negotiations. As an IMG, if you're offered a pre match at a place you really like, the answer should be obvious. If you are waiting on a prematch offer from a specific place and get an offer elsewhere, it is competely reasonable to pleasantly contact the PD at the 2nd program and say you've been offered but would definitely take an offer from them. Do remember that PD's are people, too, and they a) want to fill and b) want reassurance that you're going to do a good job. By saying you have an offer in hand (which implies that other people have thought you a good bet) AND that you'd take their offer, you kill 2 birds with 1 stone. It won't matter if you're low on their list (the PD will just decline), but if you're near their acceptable cluster, the acceptance elsewhere can tilt you into an acceptance at your preferred place.

If, OTOH, you are given an immediate offer and haven't seen all your places, it seems acceptable to me that you thank them heartily, tell them you will take it seriously, but owe it to yourself to finish up your scheduled interviews. They could give you a time limit, but you should be given enough time to at least see other places.

The obvious prob is if you're offered at a place you don't much like, have finished all your interviews, and aren't sure about the likelihood of a March match. In that case, I don't have any hot ideas. Good luck!

 

[Psych2014]

Just my opinion, but it seems that if you are getting one or more pre-match offers and 2nd look offers at this point in the season, your profile and prospects of matching into your top 1 or 2 programs should be high. I like the advice above also, abotu calling the PD at your number 1 program, that was my thinking also. I'm glad to hear someone 2nd that. If circumstances are such that you feel you have a mild possibility of not matching at all, I believe in "1 in the hand is better than 2 in the bush".

 

[countryboy75]

Thanks guys, right along the lines of what I was thinking and what others have told me. Just wanted to make sure I wouldn't step on any toes by calling up PD's or other contacts.

 

[strawberryfield]

If, OTOH, you are given an immediate offer and haven't seen all your places, it seems acceptable to me that you thank them heartily, tell them you will take it seriously, but owe it to yourself to finish up your scheduled interviews. They could give you a time limit, but you should be given enough time to at least see other places.

I told the PD at the place that offered me a pre-match that I wanted to finish out my interviews (they end mid-december) and although he couldn't guarantee me a spot if I waited, I feel better knowing I've explored all my options and I think it's fair to ask that of a PD.

 

[whopper]

I'd be wary of pre-matches.

Most institutions I've noticed that offer them are more on the desperate side.

That of course does not mean the institution is bad. They could be offering you a pre-match based on reasons that have nothing to do with desperation on their part. They for example may just truly like you, think you're a good fit, and want to secure some spots more quickly.

I'd recommend before you sign any pre-match, take a look at your options and your odds of getting into a program that may be a better fit for you. You should at least have seen some other programs so you could have weighed the pre-match program vs. the other programs you've seen. If you sign into a pre-match you've likely bound yourself to a program and cannot get out.

The benefit of a prematch is you're stopping a process that could be very time consuming, tiring, frustrating and expensive. The con is the program may not be the best one for you.

First time I was offered a pre-match, I was a medical student, and the program that offered it in hindsight was terrible. Had I taken the offer, I would have blinded myself to the better opportunities that were available to me. At the time I was just so mentally stoked that I almost signed the contract.

Sometimes I wonder just how much PDs and PCs are betting on taking advantage of the naive resident by offering a pre-match.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I'd be wary of pre-matches.

Most institutions I've noticed that offer them are more on the desperate side.

That of course does not mean the institution is bad. They could be offering you a pre-match based on reasons that have nothing to do with desperation on their part. They for example may just truly like you, think you're a good fit, and want to secure some spots more quickly.

I'd recommend before you sign any pre-match, take a look at your options and your odds of getting into a program that may be a better fit for you. You should at least have seen some other programs so you could have weighed the pre-match program vs. the other programs you've seen. If you sign into a pre-match you've likely bound yourself to a program and cannot get out.

The benefit of a prematch is you're stopping a process that could be very time consuming, tiring, frustrating and expensive. The con is the program may not be the best one for you.

First time I was offered a pre-match, I was a medical student, and the program that offered it in hindsight was terrible. Had I taken the offer, I would have blinded myself to the better opportunities that were available to me. At the time I was just so mentally stoked that I almost signed the contract.

Sometimes I wonder just how much PDs and PCs are betting on taking advantage of the naive resident by offering a pre-match.

I'm just a bit uncomfortable with the level to which you cast suspicions on programs offering prematch. I'm sure there may well be some programs that are "desperate" and potentially preying on naivete.

OTOH, a prematch can be perfectly appropriate for a program who wants to grab a high-level eligible DO, IMG, or non-standard USMG who is wanting to and willing to commit to a program that works for them and their goals, geographic preferences, etc. It can end up being very advantageous to both parties. Keep in mind that the Match is no guarantee of winding up with the program "best for you" either.

 

[Indryd]

Hey guys...just to be clear...an allopathic med student from a normal US med school canNOT pre-match, right? Cos seriously there are 4 or 5 "middle-to-lower-tier" (lol) programs that I would immediately accept a pre-match from. I have no attraction to prestige or reputation; I'm all about location. If one of the smaller programs I'm looking at would be excited to snatch up a "big H" name, I would jump on it.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Hey guys...just to be clear...an allopathic med student from a normal US med school canNOT pre-match, right? Cos seriously there are 4 or 5 "middle-to-lower-tier" (lol) programs that I would immediately accept a pre-match from. I have no attraction to prestige or reputation; I'm all about location. If one of the smaller programs I'm looking at would be excited to snatch up a "big H" name, I would jump on it.

US Allopathic seniors cannot prematch, you are correct.

 

[Psych2014]

At more community based programs, do pre-match offers almost always come very soon after the interview, or do some programs have a threshold of numbers interviewed before they start offering pre-matches? Any idea when that threshold tends to be? 50% through?

Also, is it helpful for a candidate to remain in regular communication with a pd who is responding positively? Are PD statements such as "your interviews were regarded positively", "I'll be in touch regarding questions", "keep us informed" little more than not burning bridges?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I'm just a bit uncomfortable with the level to which you cast suspicions on programs offering prematch. I'm sure there may well be some programs that are "desperate" and potentially preying on naivete.

OTOH, a prematch can be perfectly appropriate for a program who wants to grab a high-level eligible DO, IMG, or non-standard USMG who is wanting to and willing to commit to a program that works for them and their goals, geographic preferences, etc. It can end up being very advantageous to both parties. Keep in mind that the Match is no guarantee of winding up with the program "best for you" either.

I agree. We have an osteopathic school in my city, so pre-matches are pretty common at the allopathic programs here, and it seems like it works out pretty well both for the applicant and the program. I believe the psych program here has done prematches at some point (don't know if they do it now), and it's about the complete opposite of a malignant program or a place where residents are overworked or abused.

 

[whopper]

OTOH, a prematch can be perfectly appropriate for a program who wants to grab a high-level eligible DO, IMG, or non-standard USMG who is wanting to and willing to commit to a program that works for them and their goals, geographic preferences, etc. It can end up being very advantageous to both parties. Keep in mind that the Match is no guarantee of winding up with the program "best for you" either.

Agree with you.

 

[borrelia]

Well guys, I do not know if I made a mistake; I got offered 4 pre matches. Three from community programs, and one from an university based program which I really liked.

I still had 6 interviews at fantastic places such as UNC, UT Southwestern, BCM, WUSTL and Iowa.

I accepted de pre match at the university place (I felt pressured not to let go a good opportunity). But I feel like maybe some of the other places that I have not been where even better! who knows!

I just did not want to risk it... I guess I made a choice, just don't know if it was the right one (have not signed the contract but I verbally committed)... It is such a though decision to make!

Any comments??

 

[Sneezing]

Do not withdraw from the match, cancel interviews, or do anything brash, until that contract is signed and valid.

 

[Psych2014]

This has been edited to remove names mentioned which were not needed to say my point...

Sounds very reasonable since it's a program you really like. If the residents are happy there, that's a huge factor, for me anyways.

**Possible case in point for you: you sound like you'll match at your number 1 or 2 program, but are those really "happy" programs? I just got an email from my psych mentor who's heard from residents at a very prestigious program near his practice, that residents have become unhappy there and the program is suffering as a result. I weigh heavily on my level of happiness. Conceivably, you could rank at a program like that, possibly without knowing it? Just a thought. Congratulations on all your success!!

 

[Doc Samson]

<fingers in ears, eyes scrunched closed, waiting for the explosion>

 

[Doctor Bagel]

<fingers in ears, eyes scrunched closed, waiting for the explosion>

I know! I tried to scope that out at my interview there and didn't walk away with a feeling that it was "malignant" which is a pretty strong term. I can see how some people would be unhappy there, though. Of course, that's true for every program. Now I'm curious who this mentor is and what inside scoop she has on the program. I do know someone from my school who did an away there and is planning on ranking the program really high.

 

[whopper]

I just did not want to risk it... I guess I made a choice, just don't know if it was the right one (have not signed the contract but I verbally committed)... It is such a though decision to make!

Difficult to say without knowing the programs and what you want out of them.

IMHO pre-matching is like the Seinfeld episode where he has the opportunity to sue a coffee chain for millions because he burned himself with their coffee.

They offered him a settlement of free coffee for life and Kramer didn't know he could hold out for millions. He was just happy to get something for such a frivolous suit that he quickly took it against his lawyer's objections. At the end of the episode he drank dozens of cups of coffee a day and was manic due to caffeine.

IMHO, if you're a DO or IMG, getting told a program, especially a good program wants you may just be the boost of self confidence to the point of drunkeness--> to the point where you sign a contract without weighing all your options.

I know because I've been there. I am an IMG. The first program that offered me a pre-match (I was a 3rd year!), had I signed it, that would've been a major mistake. The program was terrible, but at the time I couldn't tell. I was just so happy that doctors Irespected offered me something that I almost signed the contract.

However, don't take what I write too far. Pre-matching could be a great thing, and something that could save one a lot of time, money and frustration. Going through the MATCH can be stressful. As long as you've seen enough places and weighed your options, I would think it was the right move.

 

[Psych2014]

Doc Samson, if you don't mind, exactly what do you mean by "ears plugged, eyes closed, expecting explosion".

I realize malignant may mean something more specific than what I meant, which is "unhappy". I used the term loosely. I obviously cannot share his name and he does not work there, but knows residents there. He is a Psych in private practice, a conservative person who rarely says anything negative about anyone. He said it in response to my questions about his experience with his matching process, and He has no reason to embellish. However, as in any opinion, it's all in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[borrelia]

Psych2014:

Thank you for you advice! I am an IMG and I was precisely looking for a University program with strong commitment to teaching, some research and most of all, where I could see that the residents were happy. After interviewing there I felt that the residents were genuinely happy at this program. It is not the most competitive program that I interviewed at... it is also not the strongest in research. So, we'll see, finally we all want to be happy... as you said, the ultra competitive program might not be the right one for me.

Whopper: That was exactly my fear, that I would let go fantastic opportunities... I will not get to interview at those other places where maybe residents are just as happy. But that I will never know!

1.- Is it acceptable to tell a program to wait until you have interviewed at the other places you think you'd like? (I did not want to make the program think that I wasn't interested, after 11 interviews it was still no. 1 on my list)

2.- I have an upcoming interview, Should I still go if I have not signed the contract yet??

Thanks to everyone for your input!

 

[Doc Samson]

Doc Samson, if you don’t mind, exactly what do you mean by "ears plugged, eyes closed, expecting explosion".

I realize malignant may mean something more specific than what I meant, which is "unhappy". I used the term loosely. I obviously cannot share his name and he does not work there, but knows residents there. He is a Psych in private practice, a conservative person who rarely says anything negative about anyone. He said it in response to my questions about his experience with his matching process, and He has no reason to embellish. However, as in any opinion, it's all in the eyes of the beholder.

Simply referring to the high likelihood of a flame war when someone posts controversial opinions on programs (which other users of the board likely attend) based on nebulously identified sources - as evidenced by our other thread re: UC.

 

[Psych2014]

Thanks for your reply Doc Samson, and for editing my comments out of your post above.

I apologize for my mistake of mentioning another school's name. I was expressing myself on something, and did not need to do that. I just did it carelessly. I was not meaning to disrespect or flame anyone. Thanks.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Thanks for your reply Doc Samson, and for editing my comments out of your post above.

I apologize for my mistake of mentioning another school's name. I was expressing myself on something, and did not need to do that. I just did it carelessly. I was not meaning to disrespect or flame anyone. Thanks.

Well, I'm going to jump in and say that your post was fine. 🙂 I think stuff very similar to what you posted has already been posted here anyway. You do hear rumors about different programs, and honestly it'd be nice to discuss them openly because it's hard to figure out what's true and what's not.

As for borrrelia, congrats on the offer, and I hope it works out well for you!

 

[Sneezing]

GO TO THE INTERVIEW. Do not stop your interview trail until you have signed the contract. I have known other candidates in years past, as does SDN, that have been screwed by being in 'match limbo'. You don't stop, until you are signed. This is a business contract, this is your career, don't jeopardize it based on well meaning words.

 

[strawberryfield]

It should be noted that you must withdraw from the match before any contract is signed otherwise you are in violation of the NRMP guidelines. I know this because I just signed with my top choice!!! 😉 😀🙂

 

[Sneezing]

Congratulations strawberry!

 

[howelljolly]

I know because I've been there. I am an IMG. The first program that offered me a pre-match (I was a 3rd year!), had I signed it, that would've been a major mistake. The program was terrible, but at the time I couldn't tell. I was just so happy that doctors Irespected offered me something that I almost signed the contract.

Wow, didnt know that. 🙂

Psych2014:


1.- Is it acceptable to tell a program to wait until you have interviewed at the other places you think you'd like? (I did not want to make the program think that I wasn't interested, after 11 interviews it was still no. 1 on my list)

2.- I have an upcoming interview, Should I still go if I have not signed the contract yet??

Thanks to everyone for your input!

1. That can be a problem. If you tell the program to wait whilst you go on more interviews, they just might take the prematch off the table. Some programs give you no more than a week to decide. What's worse (and why prematches are evil) is that if you reject a prematch offer, you might not be ranked by that program at all. Especially this year, programs have applicants out the wazoo.

2. If you haven't signed a contract yet, you are still in the Match. Keep on keepin' on.

 

[Lucy May]

It should be noted that you must withdraw from the match before any contract is signed otherwise you are in violation of the NRMP guidelines. I know this because I just signed with my top choice!!! 😉 😀🙂

Wow! I had no idea! I'm about to sign a prematch offer myself, but thought that you withdrew AFTER signing because then it was a done deal because you can't withdraw from the match and then jump back in. That's sorta scary to me...

Actually, I'll back up and hopefully get some feedback from you all.
I got offered to prematch at what I consider #3. It would be #2 if not for location. I talked to PD at #2 and in a roundabout way, he encouraged me to accept a prematch at another place if I really liked it. I emailed two residents at #1 and neither got back to me so I felt rejected. I'm wondering if I should call the PD at #1 just to make sure, but there's no way they would offer a prematch since it's a combined residency (only two spots available).

I'm 99% sure I'm going with #3, but it's still scary. Sometimes I want to go through the match, but I don't think I'd be very happy if I ended up at anywhere below my top 3-4. It's such a frustrating gamble.

 

[Psych2014]

I sure understand your thinking process, sounds very valid.

Interesting that #2 encouraged you to take prematch, that's helpful. I'd certainly call #1 PD, because residents sometimes do not return emails. It's likely not a rejection, just no time.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

It should be noted that you must withdraw from the match before any contract is signed otherwise you are in violation of the NRMP guidelines. I know this because I just signed with my top choice!!! 😉 😀🙂

Congrats! Mind if I ask where you're headed?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I sure understand your thinking process, sounds very valid.

Interesting that #2 encouraged you to take prematch, that's helpful. I'd certainly call #1 PD, because residents sometimes do not return emails. It's likely not a rejection, just no time.

Yeah, I agree that I wouldn't read a ton into the lack of replies from residents. I don't think residents generally know where applicants stand anyway, so it's more likely that they're busy than that you're not likely to be ranked highly by the program.

 

[Lucy May]

Yeah, I agree that I wouldn't read a ton into the lack of replies from residents. I don't think residents generally know where applicants stand anyway, so it's more likely that they're busy than that you're not likely to be ranked highly by the program.

Hey thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. I debated calling the PD for #1 and you're probably right about the residents being too busy or possibly plain annoyed or unsure of how to respond to my questions. The only thing that really bothers me is one of the residents was the chief and I actually interviewed with her and am SURE that her input counts, so that fact she didn't get back to me sort of answers the question of where I stand.

Sorry for the digression-so about calling the PD at #1...I had to really debate how much #1 was really my #1 and I concluded that I think I'm gonna be pretty darn happy if I accept the prematch. I'm going to visit there again this week and attend some diadactics, check out the city, etc. The only negative thing in my mind was that it's 5 hours from home, but that doesn't have to be a total negative since I'm pretty excited about the city it's located in.

Thanks for letting me babble. I feel pretty blessed to be in this position especially since Psych was so competitive this year.
🙂

Oh, and the residency is somewhere in the great midwest (my kind of people) 😉

 

[Psych2014]

I'm happy for you, I'd be happy to match somewhere I liked. But I will call my PD's at number 1 and down to whichever one offers me a pre-match (positive thinking here) simply because there is absolutely nothing to lose, if you are comitted to the idea of pre-matching over waiting.

 

[howelljolly]

I'm happy for you, I'd be happy to match somewhere I liked. But I will call my PD's at number 1 and down to whichever one offers me a pre-match (positive thinking here) simply because there is absolutely nothing to lose, if you are comitted to the idea of pre-matching over waiting.

really?

might it be seen as bad form if you ask a program which has a policy against prematching (that you didnt know about)?

 

[Psych2014]

Personally I know which ones pre-match and don't, as I would ask them, or the residents would often say. So, if they don't pre-match, I'd ask directly how they feel about ranking me, then go from there, knowing that it's just an ongoing conversation, way too early and innapropriate for anyone to make any commitments.. I'm just calling to be pragmatic on both our behalf. It actually helps both sides. It seems fair to both parties, and nobody is obligated to offer any information. The original topic being deciding on any given pre-match offer, In the end, it'll be a decision, and hopefully most of us have several programs we'd be delighted to pre-match in. I wouldn't hesitate at all at this point.

 

[WhoisJohnGalt]

So, if they don't pre-match, I'd ask directly how they feel about ranking me, then go from there, knowing that it's just an ongoing conversation, way too early and innapropriate for anyone to make any commitments.. I'm just calling to be pragmatic on both our behalf.

I'm confused... isn't this a violation of NRMP guidelines?

 

[Psych2014]

This has been discussed above in this thread, and in many other threads. I dont' claim to be an authority. Can you copy and paste the part where you think it's a violation?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I'm confused... isn't this a violation of NRMP guidelines?

My understanding is that both sides can freely exchange information about their rank lists but just can't do it in a coercive way. So a program can't say we'll rank you to match if you rank us #1. They can tell you you're ranked to match, though. UC-Davis apparently tells people where they are on their list if asked and has been doing it for a long time.

 

[Sirimboi]

really?

might it be seen as bad form if you ask a program which has a policy against prematching (that you didnt know about)?

I say you ALWAYS ask about prematch. Shows great interest for the program on your part. Just be careful how you formulate it. I asked on my every interview: "What is yous program's policy with regard to offering out of match positions?" It is a benign question and you go from there.

 

[howelljolly]

Personally I know which ones pre-match and don't, as I would ask them, or the residents would often say. So, if they don't pre-match, I'd ask directly how they feel about ranking me, then go from there, knowing that it's just an ongoing conversation, way too early and innapropriate for anyone to make any commitments.. I'm just calling to be pragmatic on both our behalf. It actually helps both sides. It seems fair to both parties, and nobody is obligated to offer any information. The original topic being deciding on any given pre-match offer, In the end, it'll be a decision, and hopefully most of us have several programs we'd be delighted to pre-match in. I wouldn't hesitate at all at this point.

6.0 Restrictions on Persuasion One of the purposes of the Matching Program is to allow both applicants and programs to make selection decisions on a uniform schedule and without coercion or undue or unwarranted pressure. Both applicants and programs may express their interest in each other; however, they shall not solicit verbal or written statements implying a commitment. Applicants shall at all times be free to keep confidential the names or identities of programs to which they have or may apply. In addition, it is a breach of the applicable Match Participation Agreement for:

(a) a program to request applicants to reveal ranking preferences; or...
​

 

[Doctor Bagel]

6.0 Restrictions on Persuasion One of the purposes of the Matching Program is to allow both applicants and programs to make selection decisions on a uniform schedule and without coercion or undue or unwarranted pressure. Both applicants and programs may express their interest in each other; however, they shall not solicit verbal or written statements implying a commitment. Applicants shall at all times be free to keep confidential the names or identities of programs to which they have or may apply. In addition, it is a breach of the applicable Match Participation Agreement for:

(a) a program to request applicants to reveal ranking preferences; or...
​

Hmm, sounds a little iffy in light of this. I think these rules are designed more to keep the programs in line than us, though, since they're the ones with the power.

 

[howelljolly]

Hmm, sounds a little iffy in light of this. I think these rules are designed more to keep the programs in line than us, though, since they're the ones with the power.

maybe, but we have to follow them too

 

[Doctor Bagel]

maybe, but we have to follow them too

True, but I'm still confused where that would leave an applicant looking for a pre-match. So I guess you can't contact a program asking where you're ranked unless it's UC-Davis, and they tell you you can, but I think you can still contact programs either letting them know you're interested in pre-matching there or that you have a pre-match offer elsewhere just to hear what they say. Pre-matching is allowed but violates the whole spirit of the match anyway, so it puts everyone in an awkward/grey area. What you clearly can't say is I'll rank you #1 if you promise to rank me to match.

Honestly, if they really wanted to enforce all this stuff, they'd stop all correspondence between the interview and match day as Sneezing suggested before.

 

[howelljolly]

True, but I'm still confused where that would leave an applicant looking for a pre-match. So I guess you can't contact a program asking where you're ranked unless it's UC-Davis, and they tell you you can, but I think you can still contact programs either letting them know you're interested in pre-matching there or that you have a pre-match offer elsewhere just to hear what they say. Pre-matching is allowed but violates the whole spirit of the match anyway, so it puts everyone in an awkward/grey area. What you clearly can't say is I'll rank you #1 if you promise to rank me to match.

Honestly, if they really wanted to enforce all this stuff, they'd stop all correspondence between the interview and match day as Sneezing suggested before.

Right, you can not contact a program and ask them where you're ranked.

You can contact programs and let them know you are interested in prematching.

You can tell them that you have a prematch elsewhere (true or not) just to hear what they say, but if you're making it up, thats just wrong.

As an aside, as I was searching the NRMP Match Agreement contract thing, I saw that the program itself can be penalized for trying to pressure an independent applicant into prematching. So they might want to be careful as well. Also, I was interviewing at a program, and they mentioned that the NRMP might be removing the pre-match loophole for independent applicants.

The prematch loophole was there so that FMGs needing a visa could sign a contract early, and bring the necessary paperwork to the Immigration people so they could have their work visa in time to start residency. Nowadays, nobody uses the prematch for its intended purpose. And so, they may get rid of it entirely, and allow the match algorithm to do its thing.

 

[WhoisJohnGalt]

6.0 Restrictions on Persuasion One of the purposes of the Matching Program is to allow both applicants and programs to make selection decisions on a uniform schedule and without coercion or undue or unwarranted pressure. Both applicants and programs may express their interest in each other; however, they shall not solicit verbal or written statements implying a commitment. Applicants shall at all times be free to keep confidential the names or identities of programs to which they have or may apply. In addition, it is a breach of the applicable Match Participation Agreement for:

(a) a program to request applicants to reveal ranking preferences; or...
​

Thanks howell, this is what I was referring to. Directly asking seems about as solicitious as you can get... I would definitely be careful about this. As DrBagel pointed out, telling a program you're interested is just fine, but this poster was referring to asking a program about their interest, which is not ok according to the guidelines.

 

[Psych2014]

Yes, I see. I'm glad I haven't actually asked about ranking yet. Thanks for the clarification. it is very easy to use "common sense" business tactics when going for it, which are in question here according to match rules.

Thanks again for helping me to stay well within the guidelines.

 

[maji]

I have recently accepted a prematch, recieved and signed the contract, but it was blank with a spot for a signature from the PD aswell as the GME. I cancelled my remaining interviews (not very interested) but have no withdrawn from the match. They were pretty serious and over nighted the contract to me. I signed it and sent it back, and asked for a copy of it when the PD signs it. They said they send it off to GME and never see it again. I trust it is best to try to get a copy from the GME with the final signature before I withdraw from the match?

I know this seems like common sense, but it is a big decision.