Pre-Med Accused and Cleared of Rape Charges

Started by Planes2Doc
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Planes2Doc

Planes2Doc

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Chicago has some interesting pre-meds... This is the second time I've seen a Chicago Tribune article about a pre-med having a rough time through the legal process. I'm guessing some of you might have heard about this UIC student who was charged with rape after trying to re-enact 50 Shades of Grey. I'm not sure if this was just local news, or made the national news. Anyway, he was quoted saying: "All that really matters is becoming a doctor," he said. "I have one goal in mind, and that's what I'll set my heart to."

Here's the article: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...y-uic-sex-charge-met-0320-20150319-story.html

Interestingly, sexual assaults and rape on campus is making it to the media now. It's quite prevalent, and I'm wondering how many pre-meds are applying with this on the records, whether convicted or not. If I were an ADCOM, it would be a huge red flag. But that's just me. Any other thoughts?
 
When I saw the title I was afraid that you were the accused and asking advice about it! I wouldn't know what to tell you...that's a doozy. They're so strict about having a clean criminal record, and I feel like it would remain the same even if the person wasn't convicted! Image has to be taken into consideration.
 
toffee_bloom said:
When I saw the title I was afraid that you were the accused and asking advice about it! I wouldn't know what to tell you...that's a doozy. They're so strict about having a clean criminal record, and I feel like it would remain the same even if the person wasn't convicted! Image has to be taken into consideration.
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Haha yeah I didn't realize the title might be taken that way! That's what's rough about the media these days. With certain offenses, you're pretty much considered guilty until proven innocent. He was already shamed by the media, and unless he works with one of those online reputation companies, this will probably come up on top with a Google search.
 
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Ismet said:
I couldn't even make it through the plot summary on Wikipedia. :vomit:
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There's a video on YouTube where they have old people react to the book and read some passages from it and it is absolutely HORRIFYING.



I mean it started as a fanfiction to freaking Twilight, how did it even get published??
 
Chansey said:
Wow. Based on the article, I would argue that what he did *does* qualify as sexual assault. She told him to stop, he continued with the role play.
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Sometimes a convincing/eloquent lawyer is all you need to get acquitted, although my understanding is that this was just a preliminary hearing. But to respond to the OP a bit, I think there's definitely a certain degree of change that might need to be made behavior-wise when one decides to pursue medicine; there's seemingly a certain degree of caution that might be advisable. This article (and others about it), like you said, won't go away most likely - I really wonder if this guy'll end up being able to get in somewhere, even if he doesn't get indicted.
 
Spinach Dip said:
Popularity of Twilight + publisher looking for the next cash cow = a bunch of crap that should never see the light of day gets a 250,000 copy initial print run

Simple math.
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Fifty Shades gives fanfiction a bad rep (as a dabbler in fic writing myself, it's sad to me) and makes me think that our standards for literature have set a new low for the decade (or perhaps longer).
 
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Safe words are a thing for a reason...although it does make me wonder about media portrayals of the accused rather than convicted. It's almost like you would have to prove your innocence instead of the state having to prove your guilt in the eyes of the socialites.
 
Ismet said:
It's not uncommon for people to google applicants. He may have a bad time if he applies.
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It is not uncommon for people to Google doctors. Good luck to him getting anyone to bring their child to him for care.

The judge appears to be of the opinion that an encounter that starts as consensual (i.e. the woman did not scream when her wrists were constrained, etc) cannot become non-consensual later in the encounter. Despite this initial hearing, there may be enough outcry for a district attorney to bring rape charges against this guy.
 
SouthernSurgeon said:
It's popularity was self-evident and hard to pin on a publisher. It went to #1 on the NYT e-book list BEFORE that 250K initial print run (that ended up getting doubled to a 500K order), and is one of the most downloaded amazon e-books ever for the kindle

Say what you will...tons of people bought it and read it.
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:shrug:

I don't think that the number of people who read a book is evidence of its quality.

aka. Just because something sells well does not mean it is good.
 
Did I say it was good?
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You sort of implied it. But w/e. I'm not in the mood to argue right now.


Spinach Dip said:
aka. Just because something sells well does not mean it is good.
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If you need more examples, just look at McDonalds burgers, 98% of music that's been released in the past 5 years, and Detroit Lions tickets.

Something does not have to be 'of quality' to make money. It just has to be popular. Everyone in business knows this....



However I feel we are getting away from the point of this thread, so I will leave it at that.
 
LizzyM said:
It is not uncommon for people to Google doctors. Good luck to him getting anyone to bring their child to him for care.

The judge appears to be of the opinion that an encounter that starts as consensual (i.e. the woman did not scream when her wrists were constrained, etc) cannot become non-consensual later in the encounter. Despite this initial hearing, there may be enough outcry for a district attorney to bring rape charges against this guy.
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No matter the facts of the case, it is quite disturbing that more and more often, public opinion has the potential to sway legal proceedings.
 
It sounds like he didn't do anything wrong at all. Really hope this doesn't hurt his chances at becoming a doc. Adcoms shouldn't even be privy to this info since he was found innocent.
 
6FFF said:
No matter the facts of the case, it is quite disturbing that more and more often, public opinion has the potential to sway legal proceedings.
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On the other hand, for a judge to opine that unless a woman protests from the start that she does not consent, then she cannot claim to have been the victim of criminal sexual assault, turns back the clock on prosecution of rape to the bad old days of blaming the victim for complicity in the act of the aggressor.
 
referee3 said:
It sounds like he didn't do anything wrong at all. Really hope this doesn't hurt his chances at becoming a doc. Adcoms shouldn't even be privy to this info since he was found innocent.
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According to the newspaper account, "His 19-year-old accuser, a chemistry major at UIC, testified for more than 90 minutes Thursday, at times wringing her hands as she told the judge her encounter with Hossain on Feb. 21 was consensual at first but that she told him to stop and began crying after he hit her hard with a belt.

"I was saying, 'No, stop,' shaking my head from side to side," she said.

"He said, 'I want to see how much you can take,'" she testified. "He said, 'I want to see you cry.' " "

@referee3, I'd like to know what your definition of "wrong" is if you think that the behavior described above is not "wrong".
 
Planes2Doc said:
With certain offenses, you're pretty much considered guilty until proven innocent. He was already shamed by the media, and unless he works with one of those online reputation companies, this will probably come up on top with a Google search.
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I would suggest that in this case, that's not a bad thing. Evidence of poor judgement at the very least, more likely, a lack of sufficient concern for another person's rights and feelings, and evidence of entitlement and selfishness -- putting his own short-term desires above the long-term health of another.

CaliforniaDreamer said:
I am pretty sure that if you are found not guilty or if you are not charged then you don't have to disclose it.
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Probably true. But rescindments happen, and I would be so inclined...

LizzyM said:
The judge appears to be of the opinion that an encounter that starts as consensual (i.e. the woman did not scream when her wrists were constrained, etc) cannot become non-consensual later in the encounter. Despite this initial hearing, there may be enough outcry for a district attorney to bring rape charges against this guy.
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Agreed. And to me, a deeply troubling aspect to this case. The judge even appeared to believe the accuser --
 
LizzyM said:
According to the newspaper account, "His 19-year-old accuser, a chemistry major at UIC, testified for more than 90 minutes Thursday, at times wringing her hands as she told the judge her encounter with Hossain on Feb. 21 was consensual at first but that she told him to stop and began crying after he hit her hard with a belt.

"I was saying, 'No, stop,' shaking my head from side to side," she said.

"He said, 'I want to see how much you can take,'" she testified. "He said, 'I want to see you cry.' " "

@referee3, I'd like to know what your definition of "wrong" is if you think that the behavior described above is not "wrong".
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There is no proof she is telling the truth. There have been numerous recent incidents where college females have falsely accused others of rape and been discovered to have been lying. It's a shame it happens but the more they cry wolf the less people will listen.
 
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LizzyM said:
On the other hand, for a judge to opine that unless a woman protests from the start that she does not consent, then she cannot claim to have been the victim of criminal sexual assault, turns back the clock on prosecution of rape to the bad old days of blaming the victim for complicity in the act of the aggressor.
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I 100% absolutely agree with you on this, there is no denying the judge is crooked. This ruling is an insult to all rape victims. However, my argument is that the DA should bring charges based on the MERIT of the case, not simply public perception. The courts should be (and were designed to be) insulated from the masses, as this is the only way a truly fair trial can be had.


Based on my argument, there is no doubt that this case merits an investigation by the district attorney. It would be outrageous if this man walks away unscathed. NOT because of what you or I, or anyone thinks, but because, based on his/her experience and judgement, the DA decides to pursue further proceedings that result in a fair legal trial.
 
referee3 said:
Really? A passive aggressive female? Not like I haven't seen those before...
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Of course there are instances where the alleged victim falsely accuses the one who committed sexual assault, but these cases are rarer than you think! Where are your stats about these numbers? And I am sure that there are a lot more men and women that DON'T bring up assault/rape charges for fear of both not being believed or being blamed that it was their fault!

Just because they found him not guilty didn't mean it didn't happen. You have NO idea what she was feeling. She could be lying, but then again, she may not be.

I don't even know what proof you can bring up if you're just gonna counter argue that it was role play.....these types of role play need a safety word and she didn't have that, so saying "No!" was considered a part of the role play...?
 
toffee_bloom said:
Of course there are instances where the alleged victim falsely accuses the one who committed sexual assault, but these cases are rarer than you think! Where are your stats about these numbers? And I am sure that there are a lot more men and women that DON'T bring up assault/rape charges for fear of both not being believed or being blamed that it was their fault!

Just because they found him not guilty didn't mean it didn't happen. You have NO idea what she was feeling. She could be lying, but then again, she may not be.

I don't even know what proof you can bring up if you're just gonna counter argue that it was role play.....these types of role play need a safety word and she didn't have that, so saying "No!" was considered a part of the role play...?
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Actually if he is found not guilty than according to the law it didn't happen.
 
And when med school admissions looks this guy up, they're going to see that he made poor choices and judgment for not having his sex life more in order. If your potential job looks you up on Facebook and sees pics of you out of your mind drunk and just acting a complete fool and chooses not to hire you, then admissions committees can choose to do the same and not let you into med school.

Not only do med schools hold up a certain image, but physicians do as well. Yes you have the right to do whatever you want, but you're subject to public criticism and skepticism, so if you're part of a scandal, that doesn't exactly do wonders for your career.
 
toffee_bloom said:
And when med school admissions looks this guy up, they're going to see that he made poor choices and judgment for not having his sex life more in order. If your potential job looks you up on Facebook and sees pics of you out of your mind drunk and just acting a complete fool and chooses not to hire you, then admissions committees can choose to do the same and not let you into med school.

Not only do med schools hold up a certain image, but physicians do as well. Yes you have the right to do whatever you want, but you're subject to public criticism and skepticism, so if you're part of a scandal, that doesn't exactly do wonders for your career.
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Both of your above posts are correct. All I'm saying is that now I feel bad for this guy since he will have to go out and work to get his name cleared before he applies.
 
referee3 said:
Both of your above posts are correct. All I'm saying is that now I feel bad for this guy since he will have to go out and work to get his name cleared before he applies.
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I don't feel bad. He was irresponsible. That's like feeling bad for that fraternity on the bus singing the racist chant...now they'll probably never get into law school or whatever high end job with that on their permanent record and rightfully so. Whether they truly felt that way or not, they were caught, and now they have to face the consequences for their actions.
 
toffee_bloom said:
I don't feel bad. He was irresponsible. That's like feeling bad for that fraternity on the bus singing the racist chant...now they'll probably never get into law school or whatever high end job with that on their permanent record and rightfully so. Whether they truly felt that way or not, they were caught, and now they have to face the consequences for their actions.
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There was nothing irresponsible about it. She consented to all the bondage and the general idea. Not his fault at all. She knew EXACTLY what she was getting her self into.
 
The thing about safe words is that they are usually established when two consenting adults discuss exploring their sexual desires. By reading the article, it doesn't seem to me like there was much of a discussion before he strung her up. My guess is that she just went along with it at the start because she wasn't sure where he was going with it, and once the physical violence started is when she decided that she was no longer a willing participant.

The moment she said "No" "Stop" is when it became rape.
 
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LizzyM said:
On the other hand, for a judge to opine that unless a woman protests from the start that she does not consent, then she cannot claim to have been the victim of criminal sexual assault, turns back the clock on prosecution of rape to the bad old days of blaming the victim for complicity in the act of the aggressor.
Click to expand...

However, the problem with such consensual-turned-not cases is that they inevitably turn into a he-said-she-said tale where one (or both) parties is lying and there is no way to tell which is which.
 
referee3 said:
Actually if he is found not guilty than according to the law it didn't happen.
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Not exactly true. Cases are to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. There can be trials where there's DNA evidence, eye witnesses, fingerprints, purchase receipts for suspicious items (tape, tarps, zip ties) that all says that Person X committed the crime. If it's brought before a jury, they can all vote not guilty and the charges are dropped, the not guilty verdict doesn't nullify the evidence or mean that the charges didn't happen, just that a jury of their peers found them not guilty. Or, there can be a hung jury or a mistrial.

Working in the criminal field, you wouldn't believe some of the things I've seen get rejected or dismissed due to red tape technicalities. Warrant wasn't filed correctly, warrant wasn't signed, lack of probable cause for stop, and the list just goes on.
 
referee3 said:
1. No evidence
2. They were apparently role playing.
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Well, they were modeling after 50 shades of grey, which notoriously glamorizes actual rape and assault as if it were sexy role play (it's not, the main character is stalked, beaten, and raped multiple times in the book NOT as consensual play). So if that was the dude's idea of role play, odds are he had a piss-poor understanding of consent.
Now, as to the specifics, as described in the article...he didn't tell her wtf he was up to ahead of time. She agreed to 'do something dangerous' with him, not 'oh hey, tie me up, hit me, and have sex with me.' He did not have consent for the actual actions he took, and from the sounds of it there was no safeword (since no and stop didn't count)...meaning that he made the decision for her and gave her no way to back out. Again, very like 50 shades (though even less consensual), but also very much rape.
 
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