Pre-Med Advisor who doesn't like DO Schools

[PublicHealth]

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Hello,

My pre-med advisor does not approve of DO schools. His disdain for them stems back to an earlier incident in which his decision was shot down at some meeting involving allopathic and osteopathic institutions. He said that I'm better off applying to MD schools, if I decide to specialize. However, I'm very interested in osteopathic medicine, desire a career in primary care, and would love to go to a DO school.

I have a feeling that if I tell him that I am only interested in applying to DO schools, that the committee letter will not be strong, and that it may negatively affect my application.

What should I do?

PH

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by PublicHealth
Hello,
I have a feeling that if I tell him that I am only interested in applying to DO schools, that the committee letter will not be strong, and that it may negatively affect my application.
PH

Don't tell the advisor you are applying only to DO schools. Also if your adviser is that petty you need a new one.

My mother is an MD radiologist, one of her closest colleagues is a DO radiologist who trained in a DO residency program. She said he is excellent and well trained and there is no difference.

So follow your heart. If you wanted neurosurgery, it might be easier to be an MD but there are DO neurosurgeons too.

 

[irish79]

I have heard the same comment from a number of people about their pre-med advisor. I wonder if this is where some of the ignorance of many pre-meds about osteopathic medicine stems from? Perhaps the AOA needs to focus on not only educating the general public about osteopathic medicine, but also those officials who are "guiding" students in their medical school aspirations.

What a shame...🙄

 

[jkhamlin]

If it is at all feasible switch to a different advisor. Your advisor's job is to serve your best interest. If he is telling you things that are in direct conflict with fact then he is not doing his job. If he is not doing his job then fire him! I personally (and I don't necessarily recommend this unless it is something you are comfortable with) would go as far as to complain to his boss, and, or the dean of students. I tend to feel obligated to shut down bad guys. 😀

 

[maysqrd]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I would check with some of the schools that you plan on applying at and see what there policy is on committee letters. I know that some schools expect you to get your letter from the committee if your school has one and other schools would be just as happy with letters from science faculty.

Explain your situation, that your school's pre-med advisor is anti-DO and that you don't feel confident in going through the committee process. See what the schools say. You may even be able to get a faculty to write your LOR which includes an explaination as to why they are willing to write your letter as they support your decision to attend DO schools even if the pre-med advisor didn't. Good luck.

 

[KylieP54]

I agree with the above thread. My pre med advisor was also anti DO, probably because I came from a school that has an MD program (Case Western). She actualy said to me, "have you considered social work???" I was like, Oh my God, I did not just spent 32,000 for four years to do social work number one, and number two, why is an ADVISOR not encouraging me to do what I want to do?? I was more than qualified to go to med school...Needless to say, I'lll be attending a DO institution. Don't let these a-hole advisors get in your way. That's exactly why they have the crappy jobs they do, bc they themselves couldn't make it into a med school. I'm not saying being an advisor is a bad job at all, no no, we need them, but we need ones that are not going to be bitter towards their students and misguide them. So please, don't anybody take this into too much context and tellme what a horrible person I am! Good luck!

 

[SM-UCLA tech]

That's funny because the director of admissions at one of the UC schools strongly encouraged me to apply to osteopathic schools. The director even told me that their own personal physician is a D.O.

Now how much credibility do you think this pre-med advisor has now? The one thing I learned while being pre-med then going through the application/interview/acceptance process is that everything you hear and are told you should take with a grain of salt. It is important to put together your own opinions and do as much research as you can.


Good Luck to you!

 

[texdrake]

The problem with pre-med advisors is most don't know what the hell they are talking about anyways. Few have actually gone through the process and many were assigned by the school to provide that service. Still many are good.


Want honest opinions, go talk to medical students, one of each type.

My advisor, while not anti-DO, had a definite preference for MD. That could be due to the fact that Texas has 7 MD schools and only one DO. Who knows. Still stick with what you believe in. I would also recommend applying to both.

My dentist told me some very wise advice. He said "the best medical school in the nation is the one that accepts you". That is good advice.

Back to my advisor. Advisors can be asses. They characteristically make things look very grim for everyone that is not a stellar applicant. They aren't being mean, they just are trying to make sure you aren't crushed if you don't get in. When I was a sophomore I went to my advisor and talked for over 90 minutes, I left practically wanting to cry and give up. The picture was bleak according to him. My grades weren't quite high enough, I would have to ace my MCAT, I wasn't active enough (I worked 25-30 hours a week). So I sought out some medical students and decided to do it on my own. I followed there advice, I dropped out of the pre-med club, choosing to only remain an associate member. Fact is that I got in, and I picked DO. His posterboy, premed to the stars, high gpa and mcat, president of the premed club didn't...."not even to a DO school" as the guy put it. You see he was a pompous ass, we wanted to be a doctor, not to heal....big difference.

Personally I love DO. The only field I know that there are very few residencies in is Cardiology. Still there are ways around that. You can:

1. take the USMLE
2. join the military and take a military residency
3. study you butt off and be better than the MD applicants.

 

[irish79]

There are very few DO's in cards residencies (I thought it was a Fellowhip, not a residency)? That is what I want to do--how discouraging. My encouragement was that I worked at a hospital with 5 separate, DO interventional cardiologists, all of whom attended the Cleveland Clinic Foundation for their fellowships. I would maybe understand neuro, but why cards? It seems that at that point, where you went to school doesn't matter. What seems more important is where you did your IM residency and how well you did.

Can anyone give any insight to this? And Texdrake, where did you hear that there are very few cards "residencies" open to DO's?

 

[texdrake]

Irish...

I actually heard that at a seminar. It isn't that there aren't many Cards "fellowships" that are open to DO, it is that their are not many that are strictly DO.

I wish I could remember the numbers, but I don't. Last year there were very few DO card fellowships, on the other hand DO's can apply for most of the MD fellowships, one just has to take the USMLE. Don't fear it, from what I have heard it actually seems easier than the COMLEX, probably do to the fact that as a DO, you will have taken the COMLEX 2 weeks before the USMLE

 

[daveyboy]

There is absolutely no reason to think that a DO would have trouble getting a Cards. fellowship if they had decent training in residency. I work at a pretty prestigious teaching hospital in Texas and a couple of our incoming Cards. fellows are D.O., as are several residents in various specialties.
BTW, Texas is a very D.O. friendly state, particularly in DFW, b/c of TCOM.

 

[skypilot]

Is that your best bet would be to go allopathic for your internal medicine residency like over 65% of DOs do. You don't even have to take the USMLE to do this, many programs accept COMLEX results. Of course you will have to be a top performer to get the desired fellowship.

There is a DO cardiologist on the faculty at Stanford.

 

[irish79]

I'm glad to hear it isn't hopeless. I never even thought it would be an issue when I decided to go DO over MD. I think the fate of DO's is improving every year, so I guess I'm not too worried. And who knows, maybe I'll hate cards...

Lata'

 

[irish79]

Hey skypilot,

You said I would have to be a top performer to get my desired fellowship. Do you mean when you are applying for a fellowship, that they base it on your COMLEX/USMLE scores? If so, is it all three steps or just one of them (i.e. step I, II, or III)? Would you recommend taking all three steps of the USMLE? And how important are med school grades etc. in the decision? It seems the formula for residency match is much more defined (i.e. good grades, USMLE, LOR's). I've heard that LOR's are important in fellowship applications, but not much else about the "competitive" applicant.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[skypilot]

Try QuinnNSU or Old Man Dave

They are DO's who just got an allopathic residencies and didn't take the USMLE. Would certainly know more than I would.

I think its your performance in your residency and where you did it that counts not your scores to get in.

 

[skypilot]

Here is a pretty good thread about taking versus not taking the USMLE

http://www.studentdoctor.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67564

 

[Freeeedom!]

I am a resident (DO) who is doing an allopathic residency...I did take the USMLE and highly recommend doing so. But ONLY step 1 as this is usually the score that will get you into the door and if the score is great, you look wonderful...of course if you do poorly you have just hung yourself.
The reason is that many program directors wish to do nothing more than compare apples with apples and most are unfamiliar with the COMLEX. Perhaps in 5 years or so the environment will be different, but today (as I was an active part in determining this years residents) the USMLE is a good thing.
As for cards fellowship, it is always best to be in an IM residency with good fellowship placement! So that should be a primary question when interviewing (ie Northwestern has a better shot than a community hospital IM program).
THough that does not necessarily reflect the education of those involved, it is part of the "game" that must be played to get from point A to B.

 

[Nater44]

I left practically wanting to cry and give up. The picture was bleak according to him. My grades weren't quite high enough, I would have to ace my MCAT, I wasn't active enough (I worked 25-30 hours a week). So I sought out some medical students and decided to do it on my own.

I can relate to texdrake's story. At my undergrad school we had a premed advisor who would crush students dreams on a daily basis. They would leave his office and change their majors the first semester of their freshmen year. Over the years he had the art of discouragment down to a science. I never listened to him because I was older and knew he was full of crap. Turns out his life long dream was to be a physician but didn't have the chops and took the mcat "for fun" as he put it. He taught biochem and his grading was system was criminal. It really came down to whether or not you kissed his butt and he thought you were "med school material." I didn't attend one of his "voluntary" study sessions and I went from an A- to a B+ in 24 hours without taking a test or a quiz. Many premeds were under the impression that the advisor had them by the short hairs and did whatever he said. When I told a friend of mine who is a DO about the advisor his only response was "he's where he's at for a reason." Nuff said. The best source of information I've received is from many of the current students who post on this forum. They are priceless and won't bs you.

Good luck.

 

[Biodude]

Hmm, it seems that my pre-med advisor is so...different from the norm. I keep hearing all these stories about bad advisors who try to crush peoples' dreams. They were only put there because they couldn't hack it into medical school 🙄

I tend to agree with the last poster. Most of my info on activities, grades, MCAT, etc. and such came from here, and the people on SDN (with the exception of most of pre-allo and the political mess of the Everyone forum), seem to be right on the money in terms of requirements. Not that my advisor wasn't bad or anything.

He didn't discourage me when I walked into his office with my 2.5 GPA, that's for sure 😛 He encouraged me instead...but then, he's encouraged a lot of people to go DO, not due to low grades or anything, but because the philosophy and OMM training seemed to fit them more.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I just visited my PMA today, and I was shocked. While she didn't come out and say it, it was obvious she put DO schools below going to the Caribb. for medical school. I mean come on. I asked her about matching competitiveness between DO and Caribb. MD schools. I don't think she really knew the answer, so she went with the ol' MD.

She suggested that I delay my application for a year. I don't think I'm in that bad of shape, especially for DO schools. I have a 3.27 and still have 2 semesters + summer to bring it up to a 3.4.

It's really discouraging when you have an honest interest in osteopathy. She mentioned something about DO's having "problems" in certain states, but never elaborated on it. I think a lot has to do with the lack of knowledge most PMA have about DOs.

 

[Biodude]

Hmm, sounds like your pre-med advisor is really ignorant of DO's. I've gone around, talked to some DO's, looked at some match lists, and it seems to me that it's actually easier for a U.S. trained DO than for a Carribean trained MD to secure a match...of course, that's what I've seen.

Just ignore what your pre-med advisor has to say on the topic of Osteopathy if she thinks it's bunk. It's certainly NOT, after what I have seen of it thus far. I've also never seen DO's have any problems in any states...but you may need a DO to verify this...most people see them the same as an MD, really.

 

[DD214_DOC]

It's crazy. It just makes sense that a D.O. would have an easier time than an M.D. from the Caribbean. I don't doubt that SGU is an excellent school of medicine, but Caribbean schools DO have a stigma. I was bummed enough that I may have to go a couple states away from my fiance for medical school; no way will I go to Grenanda. Plus, there are monkeys are grenanda and there's nothing worse than being attacked by a monkey!

The only problem is that I need their help to find a D.O. to shadow for my LoR. I talked to an advisor I don't normally talk to, so maybe my normal advisor will be a little nicer 🙂

 

[Dr Sum Day]

Originally posted by JKDMed
Plus, there are monkeys are grenanda and there's nothing worse than being attacked by a monkey!

I can see JKDMed with a monkey on his back.

 

[Biodude]

Aw, c'mon, JKDMed, I thought that you received training in Jeet Kune Do? 😀 Why not just Bruce Lee the little bugger's behind? 😛

Definitely try out the normal advisor then.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Ever see Bruce Lee fight a monkey? Besides, I don't think Chuck Norris threw feces at Bruce 🙂